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Author Topic: How do OBE's compare to physical reality?  (Read 25738 times)
deepspace
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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2014, 22:39:36 »

The worst part about the brainwashing they attempt to do is scare people away from thinking for themselves. We all have a built-in ability to know the truth if we seek it, without the help of anyone telling us. So in order to get us believe these lies, they have to keep reinforcing them because if you are left on your own, your intuition will eventually let you know that they are not true. All you have to do is listen to it and stop blocking it out.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2014, 22:56:06 »

The worst part about the brainwashing they attempt to do is scare people away from thinking for themselves. We all have a built-in ability to know the truth if we seek it, without the help of anyone telling us. So in order to get us believe these lies, they have to keep reinforcing them because if you are left on your own, your intuition will eventually let you know that they are not true. All you have to do is listen to it and stop blocking it out.

Yeah good way to put it. The reason why is that their gospel is not inherent within the boundless self, except for those that already have a lot of guilt and might feel the need for simple minded comfort from Jesus' blood. But any real discernment, without the emotions of a terrorizing God should break away from that stuff.

IDK where any of you'll have debated in the past online, but Christian forums has a formal debate section now.

Formal Debate A forum for formal debates.
http://www.christianforums.com/f1127/

This should keep things more professional and formal. So far theycallmedave seems to main Christian to use it so far.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 22:58:22 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2014, 22:56:06 »

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deepspace
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2014, 23:56:59 »

I try to avoid getting into debates, usually no one's mind gets changed. Besides, they are generally very negative and end up bringing down my energy level. I am of the conviction that when people are ready to see the truth, they will see it. I believe it's a Japanese saying that says: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

I just try to encourage people to think for themselves and learn to trust their own judgement. That's all they need to do really. They will find the truth. For some, it may take a very long time from the short perspective of our lives here.
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2014, 03:19:58 »

I try to avoid getting into debates, usually no one's mind gets changed. Besides, they are generally very negative and end up bringing down my energy level. I am of the conviction that when people are ready to see the truth, they will see it. I believe it's a Japanese saying that says: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

I just try to encourage people to think for themselves and learn to trust their own judgement. That's all they need to do really. They will find the truth. For some, it may take a very long time from the short perspective of our lives here.
The thing with me is, I feel an obligation to help them as I see them as a part of myself. And I also know that I had some kind of spirit guild helping me through my life and I was so stubborn and messed up so much that I need to do this for them. Kind of like how one helps another since they were helped. Perhaps I will reach the point you are at, I am not there yet, but I'd be happy bringing just a few more over to the other side. I've thought about targeting christains that were new, and young on the forums, since the old ones with thousands of posts would have already been more likely to be set in their ways. The guy I did bring over to the other side was relatively new and young. By young I mean college age as being the best. In other words I think there are ways to narrow the search for people to help.  Also I realize debating is not for everyone. Anyway those are my thoughts.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 03:32:18 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2014, 05:29:41 »

Challenging a person's belief system can be dangerous (research 99% of all wars) so always be respectful and leave open the possibility that you yourself may be the one who is wrong.

I am a recovering Catholic so I understand how hard it is to let go of a belief system that is sustained through fear and intimidation. I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus Christ walked this planet and should be revered but like everything else that is good in this world, someone will find a way to make a buck and corrupt the principles.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a person in this world who has complete faith in their belief system but many will defend theirs vehemently just to put on a good show for the "almighty".

Anyways, I've read a lot of threads where ex-christians get together and bash their old beliefs but you guys have been the most respectful. That says a lot.
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2014, 05:29:41 »



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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2014, 06:33:58 »

Challenging a person's belief system can be dangerous (research 99% of all wars)
Your saying that 99 percent of wars are caused by debate? That makes no sense to me. That might be in third world counties where they haven't learned tolerance or critical thinking. Especially given that we are not in a dangerous place like the middle east or something. I can see challenging a persons beliefs system through laws, and people forcing their will on others but we are talking about debating online in a respectful manner. Perhaps you can explain that a bit more.

so always be respectful and leave open the possibility that you yourself may be the one who is wrong.
I'm a Universalist, so I can't be too wrong.  wink  But no, I get what you mean. BTW I don't like being labeled a Universalist, that is just the closet thing I could come to, in some way.

I am a recovering Catholic so I understand how hard it is to let go of a belief system that is sustained through fear and intimidation. I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus Christ walked this planet and should be revered but like everything else that is good in this world, someone will find a way to make a buck and corrupt the principles.
Hey I kind of agree with you on the idea that Jesus is real. I just don't believe it as strongly as you probably. But I have good reason to think Jesus might/probably be real. On the other hand I don't. I see it both ways.

Anyways, I've read a lot of threads where ex-christians get together and bash their old beliefs but you guys have been the most respectful. That says a lot.
Yeah I've used the Acronym IMHO "In my humble opinion" at times to show respect.

It seems that there are more ex-christians here than what I had thought. I know of another, but I don't want to mention his name unless he wants too.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 06:35:51 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2014, 07:23:03 »

Quote
Your saying that 99 percent of wars are caused by debate?
Well, that wasn't quite the point I was trying to make but I believe that you actually distilled it further to the truth. People disagree on something that is very important to them and people tend to get hurt.

Quote
...but we are talking about debating online in a respectful manner. Perhaps you can explain that a bit more.

By all means, please continue. I am enjoying your discussion and did not mean to imply that you should stop. I was merely acknowledging that it is a rare thing to see people keeping the peace while discussing topics that can be sensitive to some (I'm not a sensitive person, to be clear).

Quote
Yeah I've used the Acronym IMHO "In my humble opinion" at times to show respect.

IMHO is not a necessary disclaimer here. smiley
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« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2014, 21:57:15 »

I am struggling with this whole issue right now.  My daughter's good friend is a fundamentalist Christian, and recently she has started in on my daughter, trying every trick in the book to evangelize her.  I'm helping her with what to say, as I spent several years in this kind of church and know all their tactics.  Well, things were going pretty well along these lines.  We were able to shut the friend down without hurting the friendship...until things got worse.  Found out that not only is she literal bible, but also a historical revisionist. She believes that Jesus wasn't a Jew...he was white...  only the white race are God's chosen people...the holocaust probably didn't happen.  She's sending my daughter all this revisionist material.  It's all just so heartbreaking and infuriating.  Hard to know how to proceed.  My daughter is 15.  Still under our influence but also growing up and becoming independent.  If it's all up to me I would have her cut ties.  My daughter, unfortunately, values the friendship.  This kind of thing is such a subtle brainwashing influence.  It's one thing when it's you...so much tougher when your children are involved. This extreme right wing Christian influence is more prevalent around here than I thought.   Sad
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« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2014, 22:35:03 »

I am struggling with this whole issue right now.  My daughter's good friend is a fundamentalist Christian, and recently she has started in on my daughter, trying every trick in the book to evangelize her.  I'm helping her with what to say, as I spent several years in this kind of church and know all their tactics.  Well, things were going pretty well along these lines.  We were able to shut the friend down without hurting the friendship...until things got worse.  Found out that not only is she literal bible, but also a historical revisionist. She believes that Jesus wasn't a Jew...he was white...  only the white race are God's chosen people...the holocaust probably didn't happen.  She's sending my daughter all this revisionist material.  It's all just so heartbreaking and infuriating.  Hard to know how to proceed.  My daughter is 15.  Still under our influence but also growing up and becoming independent.  If it's all up to me I would have her cut ties.  My daughter, unfortunately, values the friendship.  This kind of thing is such a subtle brainwashing influence.  It's one thing when it's you...so much tougher when your children are involved. This extreme right wing Christian influence is more prevalent around here than I thought.   Sad

Yeah that sounds extremely fundamentalist, and narrow minded. I'm not really sure what to suggest to you other than talk to her, and maybe get her into NDEs which would help open her mind. There are Christian NDEs to draw christains into NDE's and higher truths. Hey Christian NDEs is what lead me to higher spiritual truths.

This is a tough NDE I am posting bellow, that I probably would not recommend this for her, but you can probably take this one, as christains might call it meat and not milk. If you want a good christain NDE I can get one other than this.

Note this is not a Buddhist NDE, it's just labeled that because that is probably the closet religion that westerns can put this NDE into. BTW most NDE's are not like this. This is a rare gem in the haystack. But there are plenty more NDEs that I hope can help, and challenge you and her into higher spiritual truths. Though I must admit astral projectors tend to give more stable truths about the afterlife than NDEers. But I learn from both.

Near Death Experiences - NDE - Buddhist Like NDE ( NDE accounts )
http://youtu.be/-lxJTWNy0g4

Besides this neurosurgeon Eben Alexanders NDE is a great read. He was a agnostic before his NDE, now he is a theist, but not a Christian. What makes it compelling was that he was a neurosurgeon. He's been very popular in the NDE community. I've read his book. Great read.

Though I must admit NDEs can be limiting, depending on what you can get form it all, and who you listen to on it. Since there are many types of NDEs, but they all have underlying themes and truths. I don't know if you have researched NDEs but.

Other than that, you can encourage her to go to meetup.com and meet other people other than fundamentalist christains.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 03:49:17 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2014, 04:56:15 »

Yeah that sounds extremely fundamentalist, and narrow minded. I'm not really sure what to suggest to you other than talk to her, and maybe get her into NDEs which would help open her mind. There are Christian NDEs to draw christains into NDE's and higher truths. Hey Christian NDEs is what lead me to higher spiritual truths.

This is a tough NDE I am posting bellow, that I probably would not recommend this for her, but you can probably take this one, as christains might call it meat and not milk. If you want a good christain NDE I can get one other than this.

Note this is not a Buddhist NDE, it's just labeled that because that is probably the closet religion that westerns can put this NDE into. BTW most NDE's are not like this. This is a rare gem in the haystack. But there are plenty more NDEs that I hope can help, and challenge you and her into higher spiritual truths. Though I must admit astral projectors tend to give more stable truths about the afterlife than NDEers. But I learn from both.

Near Death Experiences - NDE - Buddhist Like NDE ( NDE accounts )
http://youtu.be/-lxJTWNy0g4

Besides this neurosurgeon Eben Alexanders NDE is a great read. He was a agnostic before his NDE, now he is a theist, but not a Christian. What makes it compelling was that he was a neurosurgeon. He's been very popular in the NDE community. I've read his book. Great read.

Though I must admit NDEs can be limiting, depending on what you can get form it all, and who you listen to on it. Since there are many types of NDEs, but they all have underlying themes and truths. I don't know if you have researched NDEs but.

Other than that, you can encourage her to go to meetup.com and meet other people other than fundamentalist christains.

Peace.

Dude I love Eben Alexander's book "Proof of Heaven". That book actually brought me into all of this. I read it in 16 hours lol. When I officially left Christianity I became really depressed after realizing everything I believed was a lie. I even questioned the existence of God altogether, and any form of life after death. I started to believe that when we die, we are simply gone forever. That was when I started researching NDE's so I could prove myself wrong. If found Eben's book and felt so liberated, it was incredible! And I've been on this path ever since and have found out that the truth is better and more beautiful than I could have imagined.
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« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2014, 05:15:41 »

Yeah that sounds extremely fundamentalist, and narrow minded. I'm not really sure what to suggest to you other than talk to her, and maybe get her into NDEs which would help open her mind. There are Christian NDEs to draw christains into NDE's and higher truths. Hey Christian NDEs is what lead me to higher spiritual truths.

I must say that NDEs have opened my mind a lot and have had quite an influence on my spiritual life. My favorite is Nanci Danison's because she shares so many details and a lot of it I have also experienced during AP. Unlike the world's major religions, NDEs share so many common elements, yet their consistencies span the length of recorded history, all age groups, cultures, nationalities, races, religious beliefs, you name it. There is a theory that all of the major religions have gotten much of their basic theology from NDEs. That wouldn't surprise me. These are basically eye witness testimonies vs. someone's book that was written a thousand years ago. If a thousand people say, "hey I went there, and this is what happened" and then you look at their testimony, and they have 95% agreement, you have to give some credibility to what they are saying. For example, almost every NDE experiencer says there was no judgement. So you have the fundamentalist Christians saying there is judgement based on the bible, but then all of these people who went there and reported what happened. The Christians say, "Oh they were all being deceived by the devil" or whatever. But of course anyone who disagrees with them has been deceived.
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« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2014, 07:13:57 »

I must say that NDEs have opened my mind a lot and have had quite an influence on my spiritual life. My favorite is Nanci Danison's because she shares so many details and a lot of it I have also experienced during AP. Unlike the world's major religions, NDEs share so many common elements, yet their consistencies span the length of recorded history, all age groups, cultures, nationalities, races, religious beliefs, you name it. There is a theory that all of the major religions have gotten much of their basic theology from NDEs. That wouldn't surprise me. These are basically eye witness testimonies vs. someone's book that was written a thousand years ago. If a thousand people say, "hey I went there, and this is what happened" and then you look at their testimony, and they have 95% agreement, you have to give some credibility to what they are saying. For example, almost every NDE experiencer says there was no judgement. So you have the fundamentalist Christians saying there is judgement based on the bible, but then all of these people who went there and reported what happened. The Christians say, "Oh they were all being deceived by the devil" or whatever. But of course anyone who disagrees with them has been deceived.
I have to go to bed right now, but I just had to have seen Nanci Danison's NDE too. Though only on youtube LOL It's right up there was Ebens, I swear. So feel free to check that one out too Aaron.

Peace.
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« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2014, 15:19:14 »

I must say that NDEs have opened my mind a lot and have had quite an influence on my spiritual life. My favorite is Nanci Danison's because she shares so many details and a lot of it I have also experienced during AP. Unlike the world's major religions, NDEs share so many common elements, yet their consistencies span the length of recorded history, all age groups, cultures, nationalities, races, religious beliefs, you name it. There is a theory that all of the major religions have gotten much of their basic theology from NDEs. That wouldn't surprise me. These are basically eye witness testimonies vs. someone's book that was written a thousand years ago. If a thousand people say, "hey I went there, and this is what happened" and then you look at their testimony, and they have 95% agreement, you have to give some credibility to what they are saying. For example, almost every NDE experiencer says there was no judgement. So you have the fundamentalist Christians saying there is judgement based on the bible, but then all of these people who went there and reported what happened. The Christians say, "Oh they were all being deceived by the devil" or whatever. But of course anyone who disagrees with them has been deceived.

Dude that's something I've been saying to my christian friends/family for months now. I'm giving everyone the link to NDERF.org and saying "go research for yourself. Read these accounts. You'll find that 95% of them all say the EXACT same things. You cannot ignore this". Especially about the non-judgment part too. Nanci Danison was the NDE I found right after Eben Alexander, and after I watched a few videos of her I bought her book and read it as well. That book is AMAZING, you guys gotta go read it. I got it on Kindle. It's called "Backwards: Returning to our Source for answers". The craziest thing is she talks alot about our pre-incarnate state and our spirit guides, the process of how we choose to come here, etc. And I thought it sounded a bit far-fetch'd at first, but I kept reading and reading the testimonials on NDERF.org, and every once and a while I'd run into someone who confirmed what she said. One lady talks about being angry with the source and asking why he created her to have such a horrible life. And he says "don't you remember? You chose this life even though your Spirit guide advised you against it" and then her guide shows up and shows her the memory of her choosing the life against her guide's advice, and she went "wow, I remember that now". I was like "WOAH That's a real thing?!" lol

You can imagine what a roller-coaster ride it felt like to learn all of this stuff after coming out of Christianity just a few months earlier.
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« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2014, 15:46:34 »

I haven't had an OBE yet although I'm pretty close. I was wondering, for those of you who are experienced in having these, how real do they seem? When you leave your body and look around your room, fly to other dimensions etc, is it just as real as waking reality? Is it just as real and vivid as "real life", or is it more dream like?

Thanks!

They get to be pretty real . For the couple random times I had an OBE occur took place in my room, very early in the morning.

I was greeted by black creatures that formed from the shapes of objects in my room. I knew I was in the midst of an OBE but I wasn't well developed enough to fully move my body.

But OBEs and Astral Projection will get to feel as real as vivid as your conscious living the more time you work on it.
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2014, 18:03:15 »

Plasma--Thanks for the link on Buddhist like NDE.  I hadn't seen that one.  It was excellent!  I do collect NDEs and love Eben Alexander's book too.  If you do have that Christian one you mentioned, I'd love to take a look at it. --Thanks! 
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2014, 00:27:39 »

Plasma--Thanks for the link on Buddhist like NDE.  I hadn't seen that one.  It was excellent!  I do collect NDEs and love Eben Alexander's book too.  If you do have that Christian one you mentioned, I'd love to take a look at it. --Thanks!
Well I just typed out a big reply, and the computer turned off, and lost all of it, so I will try to sum this up.

I was fascinated by this christian NDE for many years, though I didnít grow past it since I didnít know about astral projection and other things. I didnít even check out other religions seriously at all.

OK the christian NDE I am thinking is of Howard Storm. He was an atheist, artist, and university professor. He was the type of guy that didnít take crap from anyone, and he was probably somewhat of a bully in school at least. He died for about 20 minutes I think it was. I hypothesized that when he initially died that he was in the real time zone. Then according to Howard he was lured into the hell realms by what he thought was hospital staff. Though their faces were plastic like, and ugly I think he said. He first though they were hospital staff. And so they lured him deep into the hell realms, and to a place where the properties of that realm was differnet than they type of suffering that is possible in the upper realms. So they had him good, really good. And they beat the living crap out of him, in the most horrible ways you can imagine. Perhaps beat is not the best word to explain hell or the astral but that is the best I could come up with right now. Then Jesus saved him, and he came back with great revelations. I have some very rare MP3ís of Howard Storm on audio too. Things that you canít even read in his book. If you want them I will send them to you. I really hope my memory serves me correctly when I say this, but If you get his book you have to get his old one. The one that is more uncensored edition. Since his new book omits some parts that christians wouldnít like.  Itís the 2000 edition ďMy Descent Into Death: And the Message of Love Which Brought Me BackĒ. If you want I will tell you more about the book but I want you to get the book and I donít really want to spoil it.

I see this all the time where a Christian or especially an ex-Christian gets an NDE, and they go to hell or heaven, and they come back totally convinced the bible is real with all itís propaganda and baggage. And they claim emphatically the bible is real. All of it. This is bad for spiritual growth. So for instance in this NDE I posted below she commits suicide, goes to hell, then this loving light comes, and then she is back in her body, and calls 911. So she survives. Then she automatically goes to the traditional religion she knows best and thinks. OMG bible is absolutely real. And then they repent and continue the narrow minded view of spirituality. Christians canít grow fundamentally past a certain point. I recently talked about this to my friend and I pointed out that christians can only grow to a certain point, and then they get this ceiling effect in their growth. The reason is their bible can never add anything to it, or take anything out, as revelation says. And their light will become more and more dim as the light of science will continue to grow into countless mellinas to come. Science is the most stable path to God, and ending suffering on earth. Since there is no separation between the spiritual and the natural. If the spiritual exits we will find it in time. And as I have said in the past, one day we will astral project on demand with the help of science and technology. My thinking is why head of most people on this. And I can explain why this is so, but it would take a while. So check out this NDE and you will see that she never saw or talked to Jesus, and she never talked to God yet somehow now, she thinks the bible is totally real and true and her NDE.

Woman Discovers Hell is Real
http://youtu.be/EhKM37fVwOQ

So what I am really trying to point out here is that you must be very careful in reading christian NDEs. And think critically about them. All NDEs need some critical thinking. There are many NDEs that contradict each other, but from understanding astral projection you come to realize that some of these NDEs are totally created in the mind of the beholder. Or they were just made up to get money. I donít try to totally believe in just one NDE, or a set of them, but I take a look at the whole picture, and see what are the similarities. And we learn that the type of NDE depends on the beliefs of the person. And this is confirmed with astral projection to a degree. And I have my theories about all this too, since itís possible that DMT, and other psychedelic tryptamines are released during NDEs, which might make the NDEs more centered around their beliefs, even if they are out of their body. This is where psychedelic research is good to know. Since if you understand more fully how psychedelics work it may help in some ways in understanding the NDE.  I am not totally convinced that all NDEs have nothing to do with the brain. I know many people here donít think psychedelics have anything to offer, but if you read the testimonies of things like DMT and Iboga and the like, its absolutely stunning what they report. We are not talking about hard drugs like heroin and crack cocaine here. We are talking about psychedelic spiritual molecules and plants, that alter reality for a short time, and at high enough doses they can show you the height of heaven, or the depths of hell. Though the hells are rare, there are ways to prevent the hellish ones, and ways to make bad trips easier. But most all experiences of bad trips and trips to hell report coming out a better person in the end. And psychedelics have been known to cause you to astral project, and talk to extraterrestrials in the heavenlies. If you read trip reports I must say that we are multidimensional beings, so any confusion about being in the body or out of the body or in two places at once is all in the realm of possibility. Iíve read of a few astral projections where the projector had astral projected into the astral yet they were totally aware of their physical body while simlutatiously totally aware of their astral body. Ex-NASA Aeronautical Engineer/scientist Albert Taylor talked about this. So itís totally possible for one to talk about being in the body and out of the body. And certainly there is a connection. Since if one has astral sex the body cums and you immediately go back to the body. Meaning IMO the psychedelics could very well make one trip while astral journeying, since there is always some kind of connection. Sometimes I think the powerful psychedelic experiences are like a full body remote viewing, with a filter from the psychedelic which cases fractals, on the heavenly realities they go to. Anyway I rarely recommend taking psychedelics, though I do think the trip reports have a lot of valuable things to teach us. And if your a bit skeptical let me just tell you what is possible. I have read many reports by those who were very much naturalist or atheist or agnostic. And when they have a DMT trip and go into the heavenlies, and talk to extraterrestrials in an experience with a reality that is 50 times more powerful than this reality here on earth, they came back a changed person forever in one way or another. Those that are in the know know exactly what I am talking about. Itís so powerful that itís undeniable. Many of them come back and say things like ďIDK if there is a God or an afterlife, but I wouldnít be surprised if there was.Ē Many of them evaluate their perspectives and are generally much more open minded. Sorry I tend to digress easy but this is just as valuable as NDEs..

In the end I have found large parts of the picture God/reality/truth is painting for us. And it keeps growing.

And somehow this post ended up bigger than the last that got lost. LOL

PS keep an open mind toward psychedelics until you read what is really possible with them from the actual users, and not the government propaganda, or even some of the people here at astral pulse. As I think cutting them out of the spiritual picture in the grand scheme of things is a big mistake. They were made for a purpose, though they are not for everyone.

Peace.
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« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2014, 03:04:50 »

I actually just read the Howard Storm book a few months ago.  Sorry you had to write all that about it! --but actually I'm glad you did because I didn't know there was an older version.  I'd like to get a hold of that.  Mine is 2005.  I did notice that the book had left out some very key points compared to the You-tube testimony I watched of him.--the part about all the different E.T.s he saw.  Makes me wonder what else is missing! 

You definitely have to be on your guard when watching/reading NDEs.  I always discern between their actual experience and their INTERPRETATION of their experience.

Yes, it is interesting that you can be aware of your physical body while having an NDE or OBE.  I experienced that in one of my projections a few months ago.  I was flying above a soccer field watching the game when I became aware of my physical body.  I realized I could hardly breath.  I was congested and could feel myself trying to draw air in through my nose and into my lungs.  I could feel my chest rising and falling.  It was a strange feeling of being in the 2 places at the same time.  Not as amazing, I suppose as those ones where the projector is riding a motorcycle in the physical and projecting at the same time!--but a very interesting sensation all the same.

I haven't really looked into psychedelics because I can project without them, but yes they are definitely on this earth for a reason!  Thanks for the link.  I hadn't seen that one either.  I know what she means when she says she actually 'became' depression.  I've had that experience many times in my APs where I just 'become' pure love like in the NDEs.  Mind blowing experience!!!
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« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2014, 03:07:03 »

I actually just read the Howard Storm book a few months ago.  Sorry you had to write all that about it! --but actually I'm glad you did because I didn't know there was an older version.  I'd like to get a hold of that.  Mine is 2005.  I did notice that the book had left out some very key points compared to the You-tube testimony I watched of him.--the part about all the different E.T.s he saw.  Makes me wonder what else is missing! 

You definitely have to be on your guard when watching/reading NDEs.  I always discern between their actual experience and their INTERPRETATION of their experience.

Yes, it is interesting that you can be aware of your physical body while having an NDE or OBE.  I experienced that in one of my projections a few months ago.  I was flying above a soccer field watching the game when I became aware of my physical body.  I realized I could hardly breath.  I was congested and could feel myself trying to draw air in through my nose and into my lungs.  I could feel my chest rising and falling.  It was a strange feeling of being in the 2 places at the same time.  Not as amazing, I suppose as those ones where the projector is riding a motorcycle in the physical and projecting at the same time!--but a very interesting sensation all the same.

I haven't really looked into psychedelics because I can project without them, but yes they are definitely on this earth for a reason!  Thanks for the link.  I hadn't seen that one either.  I know what she means when she says she actually 'became' depression.  I've had that experience many times in my APs where I just 'become' pure love like in the NDEs.  Mind blowing experience!!!

Can't wait to experience that ^^^
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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2014, 03:34:42 »

I see this all the time where a Christian or especially an ex-Christian gets an NDE, and they go to hell or heaven, and they come back totally convinced the bible is real with all itís propaganda and baggage. And they claim emphatically the bible is real. All of it. This is bad for spiritual growth. So for instance in this NDE I posted below she commits suicide, goes to hell, then this loving light comes, and then she is back in her body, and calls 911. So she survives. Then she automatically goes to the traditional religion she knows best and thinks. OMG bible is absolutely real. And then they repent and continue the narrow minded view of spirituality. Christians canít grow fundamentally past a certain point. I recently talked about this to my friend and I pointed out that christians can only grow to a certain point, and then they get this ceiling effect in their growth. The reason is their bible can never add anything to it, or take anything out, as revelation says.

I think all belief systems, not just Christianity will limit your spiritual growth at some point. I'm talking about fixed belief systems (typically they are). NDEs are another form of AP, but of course with a focus on the afterlife which makes them different from the average AP. I have experienced many elements of the typical NDE in my APs. Spirits guides, meeting relatives that have passed on, going through the void, tunnel, incredible scenery, surreal cities, etc.


So what I am really trying to point out here is that you must be very careful in reading christian NDEs. And think critically about them. All NDEs need some critical thinking. There are many NDEs that contradict each other, but from understanding astral projection you come to realize that some of these NDEs are totally created in the mind of the beholder. Or they were just made up to get money. I donít try to totally believe in just one NDE, or a set of them, but I take a look at the whole picture, and see what are the similarities. And we learn that the type of NDE depends on the beliefs of the person. And this is confirmed with astral projection to a degree.

A lot of the Christian NDEs tend to confirm their already established belief system so you have to take them with a grain of salt. This is why it's best to go into any Astral Projection without belief system baggage. Otherwise you just end up projecting your belief system and then reading it back to yourself. It's what you might call a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just like you are saying, you have to look at whole picture and when you do NDEs have a very common description of the after-life.  

And I have my theories about all this too, since itís possible that DMT, and other psychedelic tryptamines are released during NDEs, which might make the NDEs more centered around their beliefs, even if they are out of their body. This is where psychedelic research is good to know. Since if you understand more fully how psychedelics work it may help in some ways in understanding the NDE.  I am not totally convinced that all NDEs have nothing to do with the brain. I know many people here donít think psychedelics have anything to offer, but if you read the testimonies of things like DMT and Iboga and the like, its absolutely stunning what they report. We are not talking about hard drugs like heroin and crack cocaine here. We are talking about psychedelic spiritual molecules and plants, that alter reality for a short time, and at high enough doses they can show you the height of heaven, or the depths of hell. Though the hells are rare, there are ways to prevent the hellish ones, and ways to make bad trips easier. But most all experiences of bad trips and trips to hell report coming out a better person in the end. And psychedelics have been known to cause you to astral project, and talk to extraterrestrials in the heavenlies. If you read trip reports I must say that we are multidimensional beings, so any confusion about being in the body or out of the body or in two places at once is all in the realm of possibility.

I have been impressed with some of the DMT trip reports I've read, they definitely are projecting. But one of problems with substances like DMT is like Tom Campbell says: "You don't want to blast yourself into the non-physical reality". Especially when you can get there in a much more manageable way naturally. Judging by the experiences I've had in the non-physical with AP, I really don't see how you could add to them. They are 100% real, alternate realities that can be experienced by all of your senses without any distortion and full consciousness. How do you top that?
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« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2014, 04:01:37 »

Psychedelics have been used since the beginning (whenever that was) so I think it is foolish and rather ignorant to discount their validity. My only issue with them is that not everyone uses them in a safe manner, especially kids ( and by kids I mean teens). It's difficult to navigate one reality safely with all your senses. Dull those senses and throw in another reality or two with some dumb advice to boot and it can get ugly.

I'm aware that there aren't many deaths attributed to kids "tripping" but it happens and there are other dangers as well. I had a friend that drove while he was on shrooms and he hit a culvert head-on at eighty miles an hour. Unfortunately for him, he lived but his sober sister died. He's had eight reconstructive surgeries to his face alone and it's still hard to look at him for more than a couple of seconds. Yeab, I know everyone has a "friend" that helps them prove a point but sometimes it happens to be true. sad

Many teens read and use this site so I like to keep it real for them.

But yes, psychedelics do have their place.
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« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2014, 05:57:18 »

Psychedelics have been used since the beginning (whenever that was) so I think it is foolish and rather ignorant to discount their validity. My only issue with them is that not everyone uses them in a safe manner, especially kids ( and by kids I mean teens). It's difficult to navigate one reality safely with all your senses. Dull those senses and throw in another reality or two with some dumb advice to boot and it can get ugly.

I'm aware that there aren't many deaths attributed to kids "tripping" but it happens and there are other dangers as well. I had a friend that drove while he was on shrooms and he hit a culvert head-on at eighty miles an hour. Unfortunately for him, he lived but his sober sister died. He's had eight reconstructive surgeries to his face alone and it's still hard to look at him for more than a couple of seconds. Yeab, I know everyone has a "friend" that helps them prove a point but sometimes it happens to be true. sad

Many teens read and use this site so I like to keep it real for them.

But yes, psychedelics do have their place.

I'm not doubting the validity of them, but having done both I can say that my experiences with Astral Projection are far superior. I don't think most people have experienced a really high-end AP/OBE. If could just take people there, we wouldn't need to have this conversation. But of course AP is more difficult to achieve and less intense. But it is a completely separate alternate reality that can be experienced without distortion in the same way you experience waking life. You are completely coherent, visuals are sharp. All your sense are sharp. You can think clearly and evaluate the experience while it's going on. You can remember the details clearly and able make decisions in real time. One problem with psychedelics is the distortions. You do LSD and you are the same room, but you see the walls melting for example. The colors are wild and swirling, but it's more like a fantasy that's out of control. With a really good AP, the walls are normal (and touchable down to the bumps in the surface), it's just that you are in a different building altogether. For me, psychedelics let me know that it was possible to experience an alternate reality, but there is better way to have the experience. After the experiences I've had so far in the Non-physical, I can't even imagine going back to using psychedelics. It would be a huge disappointment.
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2014, 07:20:56 »

I'm not doubting the validity of them, but having done both I can say that my experiences with Astral Projection are far superior. I don't think most people have experienced a really high-end AP/OBE. If could just take people there, we wouldn't need to have this conversation. But of course AP is more difficult to achieve and less intense. But it is a completely separate alternate reality that can be experienced without distortion in the same way you experience waking life. You are completely coherent, visuals are sharp. All your sense are sharp. You can think clearly and evaluate the experience while it's going on. You can remember the details clearly and able make decisions in real time. One problem with psychedelics is the distortions. You do LSD and you are the same room, but you see the walls melting for example. The colors are wild and swirling, but it's more like a fantasy that's out of control. With a really good AP, the walls are normal (and touchable down to the bumps in the surface), it's just that you are in a different building altogether. For me, psychedelics let me know that it was possible to experience an alternate reality, but there is better way to have the experience. After the experiences I've had so far in the Non-physical, I can't even imagine going back to using psychedelics. It would be a huge disappointment.
You say that you have done psychedelics, but I want to know if you have went to the heavenly realms with them and talked to extraterrestrials? Since I think there is a difference there versus just having a low dose trip. Meaning I think you might think a little differently of them if you didn't have such a strong experience. Also if you did have such an experience which psychedelic did you take? I am pretty knowledgeable about them.

I am questioning here whether astral projection and psychedelics should always be mutually exclusive from each other on the spiritual path? Whether it's always a good idea to not combine them. I know this is something none of us has evidence or proof of, but I like to get into tantalizing questions such as these. I mean perhaps psychedelics clears the energy body so that astral projectors can start to go higher or deeper into the astral. I am not totally convinced that they should always be mutually exclusive that is all. BTW I am not trying to get anyone here to take them at all in anyway. I am just have to be totally real here.

And to kind of support this idea I have heard that Iboga is better than DMT since it takes away more of the filter for the heavenly messages being conveyed. So if there is a way to tone down that filter then it would definitely be more appealing. I am kind of philosophizing here so.

Peace.
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2014, 14:57:35 »

You say that you have done psychedelics, but I want to know if you have went to the heavenly realms with them and talked to extraterrestrials? Since I think there is a difference there versus just having a low dose trip. Meaning I think you might think a little differently of them if you didn't have such a strong experience. Also if you did have such an experience which psychedelic did you take? I am pretty knowledgeable about them.

I am questioning here whether astral projection and psychedelics should always be mutually exclusive from each other on the spiritual path? Whether it's always a good idea to not combine them. I know this is something none of us has evidence or proof of, but I like to get into tantalizing questions such as these. I mean perhaps psychedelics clears the energy body so that astral projectors can start to go higher or deeper into the astral. I am not totally convinced that they should always be mutually exclusive that is all. BTW I am not trying to get anyone here to take them at all in anyway. I am just have to be totally real here.

And to kind of support this idea I have heard that Iboga is better than DMT since it takes away more of the filter for the heavenly messages being conveyed. So if there is a way to tone down that filter then it would definitely be more appealing. I am kind of philosophizing here so.

Peace.

I've been wondering about these for a while after having watched the DMT Documentary with Joe Rogan on netflix. DMT is mostly safe since our bodies produce it, is it not? I wonder if it would help beginners get their first projection or two to get a feel for it if they only took a low dosage to help induce it. Also, what is Iboga?
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2014, 15:29:43 »

Sorry, deepspace. I was not commenting on you specifically and agree with you completely. smiley

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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2014, 16:33:13 »

I've been wondering about these for a while after having watched the DMT Documentary with Joe Rogan on netflix. DMT is mostly safe since our bodies produce it, is it not?
Yes DMT is made endogenously in the body, we don't know 100 percent that it's made in the pineal gland as many claim, but rather that the pineal gald is the most likely place DMT was released from what I understand. 5-MEO-DMT is also made endogenously by our bodies and per weight it's about 10 times stronger than DMT. Which is more centered around feeling rather than seeing that DMT normally gives. Anyway Joe Rogan has his own show where he talks about psychedelics at times. So he is very familiar with them it seems, and probably a good source of information on them. Though it took me a while to get use to his cursing, once you get past that you understand his underlying character and intent, which is more important that the cursing he picked up in his life. As a Christian that didn't curse, I at times have a hard time dealing with a lot of cursing, but have since looked past it if they actually have a good point to make behind their cursing.

I should mention that some people trip while not even taking psychedelics. It's like the body learns how to make it's own psychedelics. This usually only happens in people that have used a bit of psychedelics themselves in life.

I wonder if it would help beginners get their first projection or two to get a feel for it if they only took a low dosage to help induce it.

No doubt it can make one astral project, but I would seriously caution against it if you can, since it might be that it lowers your ability to astral project on your own naturally. Then again they might act as training wheels, then again they a small dose slowly build up would work as training wheels, yet a high dose the first time would do more harm than good for your energy body. There is really no way to know for sure right now. Science and experimentation is the only way to know anything definitive, and that would take a very long time. That is why I say I rarely recommend using them though I think actual trip reports from actual long time users can have a lot to teach us. So again I am in no way trying to promote illegal use here, but rather I think that we can learn a lot from the people who have used them. And again they have to have a place in the grand scheme of things for the spiritual path. Many who started out with a psychedelic ended up getting into meditation, and astral projection. So at the least we know that they act as a stepping stone.

In the end mixing the two in the spiritual path may be a bumpy road that doesn't mix well, we just don't know.

Also, what is Iboga?
Well I heard Joe Rogan mention that Iboga didn't have all the extra layers or should I say filters over the heavenly message that DMT normally has, that is all. Also I think at least that one time Rogan took Iboga, he was with fasting when he did. So the fasting might have made a difference, IDK. Also it would only make sense to me that some psychedelics would filter the spiritual messages more than other psychedelics. I generally trust Joe Rogan on psychedelics, since I know he's done them a lot.

Psychedelics like DMT, 5-MEO-DMT, ayahuasca, some types of shrooms, they are nothing to mess around with, don't expect to take them at a party and have fun all night like MDMA. They are meant for serious spiritual seekers of a certain kind. If you think your going to party with them you will have a rude awakening. Humility and respect is what they demand with any serious use. I am not talking to those of you who know this, or don't party, or who don't care about psychedelic research.

Peace.
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