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Author Topic: I think I might have hit the nail on the head.. advice?  (Read 1837 times)
Snow Pellets
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« on: May 01, 2010, 04:09:02 »

For the past few weeks I've been trying to enter hypnagogia so that I can induce the vibrational state and practice a full-blown OBE exit technique.  My main focus has been the vehram energy array and hypnagogia technique that Vessen Hopkins wrote in his ebook.  Nothing.. nada... I just ended up giving up and drifting off into dreamland, unaware of my current state of consciousness or self-awareness.

Now.. before I begin I will say that I am a very vivid daydreamer.  I can daydream for long periods of time on the silliest things (ex: jumping into winnie the pooh land and taking pooh and piglet into our physical dimension from winnie the pooh world and showing them the northern lights as they swirl throughout the night sky).  I can't visualize for s*** and have a very short attention span (very short!).  But daydreaming soothes my mind and its passive enough that it will eventually allow my mind to take a natural course into sleep.  Could this be the key?  Then something amazing happened..

I noticed that whenever I lay down to go to bed, I actually fall asleep by daydreaming and creating vivid scenarios in my mind that eventually take off on their own without any conscious effort.  It is similar to what has been talked about in phasing where you let the mind go wherever it needs to go (daydream instead of actively trying to focus on something).  At some point in the daydreaming process (letting the mind wander is another term for this) I lose my self-awareness of what is happening to me and therefore become oblivious to try anything relating to hypnagogia or retaining my self-awareness.  Thus.. I fall asleep!  I am unsure as to how this happens.. but it's like I start the daydreaming process and then suddenly at some point I lose self-awareness altogether and continue the daydream oblivious in a half-sleep state at which point I probably black out (deep sleep?).  BUT..... then this happened after noticing the previous observation:


The other night as I was falling asleep at the beginning of the night.. it seemed like I caught myself during the daydream as the mind wandered freely inside at a critical moment when I shifted my attention from the daydream and openness of the mind to my physical body and realized that I had no sensory perception of my physical body.  It was like I woke up from allowing myself to be carried away into the daydream which would eventually be "falling asleep" by shifting my awareness somehow to my physical body/breathing.  The daydream had been passive enough to shut down sensory perception of my physical body by focusing my thoughts away from it, and then at a critical moment I caught myself and regained self-awareness by refocusing my consciousness on my physical body to initiate a F10 state.  It was at this point that I reached out for energy from the vehram energy "orbs" that Vessen Hopkins talked about and the vibrational surge came about very suddenly and very violently.

The vibrations continued and then became much higher and smoothened themselves out and I had a full-blown conscious exit into my bedroom.  I used the "lift out" method and it was like while the vibrations were occurring I could "see" all of a sudden through the blackness and feel my awareness float out of my body relative to the dresser in my bedroom.  The room was dark but I could somehow perceive the room as if it were day.. maybe we have "night vision" in our second body?  It took place at 2:00 am in the morning when there is a twilight outside (I live in interior Alaska above 65 degrees latitude) and it seemed like it was real enough to be a RTZ projection/OOBE/phase of consciousness, whatever you want to call it.

I then attempted to go through the wall and found myself floating very sluggishly around the room (not a gravitational pull toward the ground.. but more like the air was made of a denser invisible material consistent with jello) and then got stuck half-way inside the wall.  I then willed myself back into the physical and experienced a loud "thud" and jolt that pushed me back into my bed as I woke up.

So with all this being said.. is there any way I can "catch" myself more frequently easier when using this method so that I don't drift too far off into the daydream and lose self-awareness?  Should I maybe try daydreaming, letting the mind out to play naturally by passively playing with the storyline, then randomly shift my attention briefly on my physical body at different times to see if the daydream has distracted me enough to allow the onset of sleep paralysis and thus bring about an F10 / hypnagogic state?
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3588897
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2010, 05:03:52 »

Now.. before I begin I will say that I am a very vivid daydreamer.  I can daydream for long periods of time on the silliest things (ex: jumping into winnie the pooh land and taking pooh and piglet into our physical dimension from winnie the pooh world and showing them the northern lights as they swirl throughout the night sky).  I can't visualize for s*** and have a very short attention span (very short!).  But daydreaming soothes my mind and its passive enough that it will eventually allow my mind to take a natural course into sleep.  Could this be the key?  Then something amazing happened..

Now, you said you daydream alot, but then you said you "can't visualize for s***". When you daydream, you are visualizing.

Now, the thing about using daydreaming (a rundown) to project is that it is supposed to be active, not passive. You need to place a LOT of focus on the rundown, use as many senses as possible, and do something active in the rundown, and eventually you will step in to it.

I noticed that whenever I lay down to go to bed, I actually fall asleep by daydreaming and creating vivid scenarios in my mind that eventually take off on their own without any conscious effort.  It is similar to what has been talked about in phasing where you let the mind go wherever it needs to go (daydream instead of actively trying to focus on something).  At some point in the daydreaming process (letting the mind wander is another term for this) I lose my self-awareness of what is happening to me and therefore become oblivious to try anything relating to hypnagogia or retaining my self-awareness.  Thus.. I fall asleep!  I am unsure as to how this happens.. but it's like I start the daydreaming process and then suddenly at some point I lose self-awareness altogether and continue the daydream oblivious in a half-sleep state at which point I probably black out (deep sleep?).  BUT..... then this happened after noticing the previous observation:

Now, you don't "let your mind go wherever it needs to go"; instead, you should focus on the scene and include as many senses as possible in the rundown. If you can do that, you shouldn't fall asleep and you will eventually find yourself in the rundown, in F2.

Quote
The other night as I was falling asleep at the beginning of the night.. it seemed like I caught myself during the daydream as the mind wandered freely inside at a critical moment when I shifted my attention from the daydream and openness of the mind to my physical body and realized that I had no sensory perception of my physical body.  It was like I woke up from allowing myself to be carried away into the daydream which would eventually be "falling asleep" by shifting my awareness somehow to my physical body/breathing.  The daydream had been passive enough to shut down sensory perception of my physical body by focusing my thoughts away from it, and then at a critical moment I caught myself and regained self-awareness by refocusing my consciousness on my physical body to initiate a F10 state.  It was at this point that I reached out for energy from the vehram energy "orbs" that Vessen Hopkins talked about and the vibrational surge came about very suddenly and very violently.

Once again, the daydream (rundown) shouldn't be passive; instead, it should be active. Also, the idea of a rundown is to get "carried into the daydream", and to retain consciousness. Another thing, through the entire process, focus 100% on the rundown. Forget about everything except for the rundown.

Quote
So with all this being said.. is there any way I can "catch" myself more frequently easier when using this method so that I don't drift too far off into the daydream and lose self-awareness?

You can do this by focusing 100% on the rundown, including as many senses as possible, and being active in the rundown. If you use this method, you will step into F2 (the daydream), but you shouldn't lose awareness. I mean awareness as in consciousness. If you mean awareness of your body, that will happen no matter what.

Quote
Should I maybe try daydreaming, letting the mind out to play naturally by passively playing with the storyline, then randomly shift my attention briefly on my physical body at different times to see if the daydream has distracted me enough to allow the onset of sleep paralysis and thus bring about an F10 / hypnagogic state?

Actively participate in the scene, get involved in the scene in some repetitive way, involve as many senses as you can, focus 100% on the rundown, and forget about your body.

Once you step into the scene, from what I have read, you should be able to phase into either F1 (the physical (you would be in the RTZ)) or F3 (what is called the afterlife, transition area, and many other things). It will take practice to be able to stay in F2. The first several times you shift into F2, your protective sense of awareness FREAKS and wakes you up solidly in F1. Eventually, however, you will be able to stay in F2 and decide where or what you want to do.

EDIT: If you want to read more about rundowns, read this and the two posts under it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 05:35:10 by 3588897 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2010, 05:03:52 »

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Xanth
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2010, 05:51:48 »

358, you have learned much.

~Ryan Smiley
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nickspry
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 10:31:56 »

The way I stay focused is by using an affirmation such as "I am aware". I repeat it mentally perhaps every 30 seconds while phasing and re-focus my awareness at the same time. If you do this consistently, the mind begins to pull itself back into focus every time conscious awareness wanders - the process becomes automatic. I continue this process right through my OBE and it helps prevent it from degrading into a normal dreamstate. I find I don't really need to be "actively involved" in the hypnogogic activity when I use this method, I simply let it develop of its own accord. But that's just me - for others it may well work better to be active as well.
Once it starts working (it takes a little perseverance) it works really well.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 10:38:24 by nickspry » Logged
Snow Pellets
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 05:19:55 »

So, could the rundown be a scenario similar in the movie "Jumper" where I am teleporting between the real world and another dimension such as winnie the pooh land.. taking cartoon characters by "jumping" them into our dimension and showing them around?  Not very repetetive.. but still creative.
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Snow Pellets
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 06:04:52 »

So about the awareness of my body thing.. since I retain consciousness when "stepping into the scene" will I have enough self-awareness to be able to say "I realize my physical body is in bed and I am now in F2.. I will induce the vibrations and enter the RTZ"?

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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 07:41:32 »

So, could the rundown be a scenario similar in the movie "Jumper" where I am teleporting between the real world and another dimension such as winnie the pooh land.. taking cartoon characters by "jumping" them into our dimension and showing them around?  Not very repetetive.. but still creative.

Use whatever rundown works for you. Just be sure that it is something you will enjoy doing for a while, is active and involved and that you won't get bored with it. Also, if you try to do something too complex, you will slip into sleep or get frustrated and give up, if you do something too simple, you will get bored and give up or fall asleep. (I think Frank said something like that before. I'll try to find the post later.) I really think repetitive rundowns are better because you can continuously go to the next step without having to stop and think "Okay, what do I do next?". Because you are focusing on maintaining that repetitive action, it is a lot easier to stay focused on and mentally immerse yourself in the scene.

For example, when I'm going to sleep at night, I generally run some kind of fantasy through my head, but I always fall asleep and I almost never have a dream involving that fantasy. But when I practice phasing and use a rundown, I almost never fall asleep, and, if I can focus 100% on the rundown, occasionally step into the rundown.

So about the awareness of my body thing.. since I retain consciousness when "stepping into the scene" will I have enough self-awareness to be able to say "I realize my physical body is in bed and I am now in F2.. I will induce the vibrations and enter the RTZ"?

In F2, you have as much (maybe even more) (mental) awareness as you do now. You don't have any physical (F1) awareness.

About the affirmation: In my opinion, that would actually be the opposite of what you want to do. If you do anything to shift focus to your body, you will likely wake up in your body. To be honest, I'm not sure how you would transition into the RTZ from F2, but I think it would be similar to stepping into F3, but I haven't done that yet, either. But to answer your question, yes, you will be able to do that.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 08:39:53 by 3588897 » Logged
Eyyoshi
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 19:13:38 »

This thread will be useful for me.

I too daydream like hell throughout the day. My thing is if I were to daydream while focusing, it would ruin the OBE/AP attempt. Every one says you must keep your mind still, not think of anything, or you'll have to start over.

I also considered visualization and daydreaming to be separate things.

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nickspry
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 00:25:50 »

This thread will be useful for me.

I too daydream like hell throughout the day. My thing is if I were to daydream while focusing, it would ruin the OBE/AP attempt. Every one says you must keep your mind still, not think of anything, or you'll have to start over.

I also considered visualization and daydreaming to be separate things.
Daydreaming is pure visualization if you ask me. As Robert Bruce points out, visualization doesn't have to mean actually "seeing" the object or scenario (very difficult for most people).  Simply imagining it - as with daydreaming - is just as effective.
Keeping your mind still and not thinking of anything seems counterproductive (with the phasing method at least), as the whole point is to allow imagery to build and intensify.
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 01:15:23 »

Daydreaming is pure visualization if you ask me. As Robert Bruce points out, visualization doesn't have to mean actually "seeing" the object or scenario (very difficult for most people).  Simply imagining it - as with daydreaming - is just as effective.
This is 100% correct!
The act of "stepping into" your daydream is what we call Phasing.
Well, it's one method TO phase.

Quote
Keeping your mind still and not thinking of anything seems counterproductive (with the phasing method at least), as the whole point is to allow imagery to build and intensify.
Actually, this is called a Passive Meditation... it works for some people. 

~Ryan Smiley
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NZ Traveller
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 03:44:08 »

Here is another method.

Most people travel anyway, they just don't remember. So, try to wake up just before astral awareness happens.

Relax and gently tell your mind that when the vibrations begin, to then wake you up. Now if that works don't open your eyes, just remain still and continue to relax. Allow the vibrations to move through your body. Do not panic or become afraid. Allow them to move and relax.

I know i am making it sound simple but believe me it is not. It took me 4 years to achieve and it happened just as i was about to give up permanently.

Good luck
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nickspry
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 10:47:02 »

Here is another method.

Most people travel anyway, they just don't remember. So, try to wake up just before astral awareness happens.

Relax and gently tell your mind that when the vibrations begin, to then wake you up. Now if that works don't open your eyes, just remain still and continue to relax. Allow the vibrations to move through your body. Do not panic or become afraid. Allow them to move and relax.

I know i am making it sound simple but believe me it is not. It took me 4 years to achieve and it happened just as i was about to give up permanently.

Good luck

I like this idea. My mind seems to respond well to suggestions, so I'm gonna give this method a go.
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Xanth
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 14:30:37 »

Here is another method.

Most people travel anyway, they just don't remember. So, try to wake up just before astral awareness happens.

Relax and gently tell your mind that when the vibrations begin, to then wake you up. Now if that works don't open your eyes, just remain still and continue to relax. Allow the vibrations to move through your body. Do not panic or become afraid. Allow them to move and relax.

I know i am making it sound simple but believe me it is not. It took me 4 years to achieve and it happened just as i was about to give up permanently.

Good luck
My first RTZ projection took place during something similar.

During the night (this was around 3am), I had a lucid dream... I woke up eventually from it, however, I did NOT open my eyes.  It was such an easy waking that I knew I was fully awake but I didn't have to bother opening my eyes.
Anyways, a few seconds later I drifted back into another lucid dream, pretty much exactly where I left off... this happened 2 more times.  So four lucid dreams in total... all from waking up but not opening my eyes.

Anyways, the fifth time I drifted back into the lucid dream, I felt that I was losing control of it the very second I got into it.
So I did my "spinning" thing to ground me into the dream.  This kinda had the opposite effect I was looking for, and I ended up feeling my arms and legs float upwards.  When I attained some sense of vision, I noticed I was in my bedroom floating over my bed.  Very "fish out of water" ish.  LoL

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, NZ, but I just wanted to relay that to you guys.

~Ryan Smiley
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Snow Pellets
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 03:29:05 »

I realize phasing is a completely different concept and that I believe has merit for more investigation and to add to a wide repertoire of achieving an altered state of consciousness.

I tried the rundown, and it worked.. but not in the sense of phasing at all.  I basically used the rundown to entertain the mind on something that I take great pleasure in and relaxes me naturally.  I do this in order to fall asleep naturally, because if I don't daydream and still the mind, I just remain awake forever. 

I kept focusing back on my physical body at different intervals during the run down to feel for sleep paralysis and entering hypnagogia and it worked!  It takes awhile and sometimes the run down is inconclusive (ie.. it meshes with other intrusive rundowns and daydreams which I then focus myself back to the original task) but eventually I am able to enter hypnagogia and suddenly realize that I have entered sleep paralysis.

Once this is achieved, the rundown / dream scene itself ends abrupty as I change my focus back to my physical body and then the vibrations start and I am able to initiate a classic OOBE in the traditional sense.  They don't last long (although the more I am able to practice them and induce them, the longer they last), but this past weekend I had about 5 OOBEs back-to-back as a result of consciously but passively "daydreaming" on a specific thought to distract my mind from my physical body in order to let it fall asleep, only to refocus my attention back on my physical body after the realization that sleep paralysis has already set in.

Has anyone kind of meshed "phasing" and traditional hypnagogia/exit methods such as this with any success?
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Snow Pellets
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 03:43:21 »

Basically to sum up what I said above.. the purpose of the semi-active conscious rundown / daydream for me is to distract my mind away from my physical body or "shift" my awareness away from it so that it can naturally fall asleep and shut down sensory perceptions.  The less you think of your physical body it will go to sleep.. makes sense.  I think the brain is somehow programmed to not inititate the sleep paralysis or hypnagogic state if the mental inquisitive attention is always focsed on the physical body at all times, because then your brain just simply thinks you want to use your physical body for something and that it will remain awake indefinately. 

You have to "trick" your brain and nervous system to shut down your physical body by shifting your awareness away from it in the form of a "run down" or "daydream", but still maintain an active role in the daydream so that your mind does not wander aimlessly and fall asleep with your body.

Now.. the trick with this, at least in my experiences so far, is very difficult and involves shifting your focus back to your physical body at different intervals so that you don't lose yourself in your run down and to check to see if sleep paralysis has set in.  You'll notice that the more that you are daydreaming and performing your run down, the sensory perceptions in your physical body start to shut down and you feel it going to sleep as you very subtely and briefly shift your awareness back to your physical body to check on your progress.  Eventually if you keep on performing the run down, you will notice that you have "tricked" your brain into thinking your physical body is asleep by shifting your attention away from it and thus the mind does not think it needs the physical body anymore so it will shut it down for sleep naturally.  The trick is to keep diligently "checking" on your physical body and then realizing when you enter hypnagogia and sleep paralysis, after which you can induce the vibrations and start an exit.
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