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Author Topic: Is astral projection / obe the same thing as lucid dreaming?  (Read 9877 times)
luffy28
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« on: February 17, 2019, 20:31:16 »

Hi,
I wanted to know if lucid dreaming is the same thing as astral projection/obe?

Please discuss the theories/evidence/ your experiences?

Thanks.
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Xanth
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 01:48:07 »

Ha!  Just that easy eh?  Just discuss your theories here.  Smiley

*grabs popcorn*  This should be good.  Wink

(if you didn't notice, this is a VERY loaded question in these circles... so we're going to be monitoring this thread closely, please discuss with respect.)
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 01:48:07 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Fresco
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2019, 04:24:39 »

They are slightly different but very similar. 
For all practical purposes they are essentially the same though for me
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Windwalker.
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 02:25:58 »

I have become lucid during a dream before but this is different then having vibrations and projecting. Lucid dreaming you become aware and already are in the dream body in the progressing dream. When you have vibrations you consciously experience going from the wake state from your physical body into the projecting body. You experience your “focus” go from the physical to the np.  Yet the actual construct seems identical ie you can perform the same tasks from either. Also when I project it usually is in a close replica of my physical surroundings. Lucid dreaming is already in progress. This phenomenon has made me place much more value on dreams as far as their “reality” goes. If you experience something then it is “real” rather physical or obe. Most people dont believe dreams are “real.” Good luck luffy. I know you try hard.
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Xanth
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 03:13:20 »

I have become lucid during a dream before but this is different then having vibrations and projecting. Lucid dreaming you become aware and already are in the dream body in the progressing dream. When you have vibrations you consciously experience going from the wake state from your physical body into the projecting body. You experience your “focus” go from the physical to the np.  Yet the actual construct seems identical ie you can perform the same tasks from either. Also when I project it usually is in a close replica of my physical surroundings. Lucid dreaming is already in progress. This phenomenon has made me place much more value on dreams as far as their “reality” goes. If you experience something then it is “real” rather physical or obe. Most people dont believe dreams are “real.” Good luck luffy. I know you try hard.
Personally, I view these experiences as a spectrum of awareness within consciousness. 
While most people think you "have" a dream... or you "have" a lucid dream... or you "have" an astral projection...
I view it from the opposite perspective. 

They're all non-physical experiences.
You ARE lucidly aware while having a non-physical experience.
You ARE astrally aware while having a non-physical experience.

I can explain it kind of like this... it's like being drunk.
There are different levels of being drunk.

First you're stone sober.  You're not drunk at all (astral awareness experience).
Then you're kind of tipsy, you feel warm and fuzzy (lucid awareness experience).
Then at some point you, you're so drunk the world around you just feels like a dream (dream awareness experience).

So essentially, what it comes down to is that you're not having a lucid dream... your awareness is simply experiencing the non-physical through a not so clear-filter.  The more you can clear that filter, the more clear the experience. 

Does that make any sense?  I view it from the perspective of your awareness, instead of what you subjectively feel the experience is.
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 03:13:20 »



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ForrestDean
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2019, 03:24:34 »

Yes, I agree with Xanth.

I'll put my spin on it a bit, which will be very similar to what others have said.

Yes, they are all the same.  They are just perceived differently.

Lucid dreaming - becoming aware while dreaming and you can manipulate the surroundings in your dreams, hence your own creation.

OBE - It feels like you are wandering around outside your body in the "real time zone", such as walking around your house or flying around in your back yard.

Astral Projection - You become aware of your surroundings while you are asleep except that none of your surroundings are your creation.  Normally you visit people and places you may know or may have never seen before.

But they are all projections of consciousness, just labeled based upon the perception.  Also, you never leave your body.  You are where you have always been.  All you are really doing is shifting your awareness.
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Windwalker.
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2019, 20:05:47 »

Another difference is lucid dreaming obviously happens during REM sleep. Many obes dont happen during REM sleep which is really astonishing. How do they happen without REM?
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Volgerle
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2019, 22:50:10 »

LD is more the way you get there, namely by already being in a D.

Projection for me also means induction (direct or indirect from half-sleep).

Still I remember getting lucid is always somehow in the more (private) 'dream zone' (as Kurt Leland calls it) which would be F2 according to Kepple.

OBE/AP can get you anywhere probably from F1-F4 if you are capable (although F1 might not be the actual F1 but a kind of etheric layer of the physical then).

Just from my gathered experience but I feel this fits also the accounts of many others.
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luffy28
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 00:22:01 »

Thanks,
The reason I was asking is that I'm trying to do this technique and can't awaken after 4 to 5 hours of sleep to do the obe4u technique? Any advice?

This is the technique I'm trying

https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)

Thanks.
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ForrestDean
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 23:51:58 »

Thanks,
The reason I was asking is that I'm trying to do this technique and can't awaken after 4 to 5 hours of sleep to do the obe4u technique? Any advice?

This is the technique I'm trying

https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)

Thanks.

There are so many.  There are many sites with many techniques.  Although projections of consciousness is a natural ability that we all have every night we go to sleep, for many people it is an extremely disciplined skill to have conscious projections of consciousness.  In other words, fully aware and immersive conscious projection experiences that you remember upon awakening.  For many people, it requires lots of practice, patience, and persistence.  I have links to many websites that offer many different methods.  For many people, it takes a bit of time to find the right method that works for them.  And sometimes once the method is discovered, that method is not always consistent, and you quite often have to explore other methods.  Some people hit it off immediately and have successful amazing projections, others may take days, weeks, months, and even years before having consistent successful projections.  But it doesn't have to take that long.  It just depends on your state of mind and your degree of intent.
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desert-rat
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2019, 20:07:41 »

As some one put it, every thing you see a a lucid dream   is part of your dream , not real . When you go out of body it is real , or some thing like that .
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luffy28
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2019, 22:38:51 »

There are so many.  There are many sites with many techniques.  Although projections of consciousness is a natural ability that we all have every night we go to sleep, for many people it is an extremely disciplined skill to have conscious projections of consciousness.  In other words, fully aware and immersive conscious projection experiences that you remember upon awakening.  For many people, it requires lots of practice, patience, and persistence.  I have links to many websites that offer many different methods.  For many people, it takes a bit of time to find the right method that works for them.  And sometimes once the method is discovered, that method is not always consistent, and you quite often have to explore other methods.  Some people hit it off immediately and have successful amazing projections, others may take days, weeks, months, and even years before having consistent successful projections.  But it doesn't have to take that long.  It just depends on your state of mind and your degree of intent.

Thanks,
I was also trying this technique https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/ and every time I went to sleep for 4 to 6 hours I couldn't get back to sleep. Should I just try to sleep 2 to 3 hours instead?

Thanks.
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ForrestDean
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2019, 00:23:36 »

Thanks,
I was also trying this technique https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/ and every time I went to sleep for 4 to 6 hours I couldn't get back to sleep. Should I just try to sleep 2 to 3 hours instead?

Thanks.

You could.  Those are just suggested times for the average individual, but not everyone is the same of course.  You have to really explore yourself and discover what works best for you.

If you're having a hard time falling back to sleep you could try to just lay on your back with your hands to your side and don't move.  Even if you have the urge to move, don't.  This overwhelming urge to move or repositioning your body is your brain's signal testing if your body is asleep or not.  By not moving you are signaling to your brain that your body is asleep.  Sometimes this is a good method to induce sleep paralysis.  Also, don't entertain or focus on the thoughts that flood your brain, but don't try to avoid them either.  That can be just as worse as focusing on them and is still hard to fall back to sleep.  Just let your thoughts flow naturally into and out of your brain without attaching to them.  If you are still struggling with thoughts and emotions that are keeping you awake try focusing only on the ringing within your ears and your third eye at the same time.  This can give you the sensation of 3D blackness, and you have better success at falling asleep.  During this method, you will most likely start to see hypnogogic images.  Keep focusing on the ringing in your ears and the hypnogogic imagery.  The bonus to this is that your brain is actively focusing on just a couple things which is enough to cause your body to fall asleep but keeps your brain active enough to remain conscious - Mind awake, body asleep.

These are just suggestions of course.  There are tons more methods, but these are the ones I normally use, along with some others, to help induce projections of consciousness.  Again, everyone is different, so you'll just have to play around with as many methods as you can until you find the right fit.
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luffy28
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2019, 01:22:43 »

You could.  Those are just suggested times for the average individual, but not everyone is the same of course.  You have to really explore yourself and discover what works best for you.

If you're having a hard time falling back to sleep you could try to just lay on your back with your hands to your side and don't move.  Even if you have the urge to move, don't.  This overwhelming urge to move or repositioning your body is your brain's signal testing if your body is asleep or not.  By not moving you are signaling to your brain that your body is asleep.  Sometimes this is a good method to induce sleep paralysis.  Also, don't entertain or focus on the thoughts that flood your brain, but don't try to avoid them either.  That can be just as worse as focusing on them and is still hard to fall back to sleep.  Just let your thoughts flow naturally into and out of your brain without attaching to them.  If you are still struggling with thoughts and emotions that are keeping you awake try focusing only on the ringing within your ears and your third eye at the same time.  This can give you the sensation of 3D blackness, and you have better success at falling asleep.  During this method, you will most likely start to see hypnogogic images.  Keep focusing on the ringing in your ears and the hypnogogic imagery.  The bonus to this is that your brain is actively focusing on just a couple things which is enough to cause your body to fall asleep but keeps your brain active enough to remain conscious - Mind awake, body asleep.

These are just suggestions of course.  There are tons more methods, but these are the ones I normally use, along with some others, to help induce projections of consciousness.  Again, everyone is different, so you'll just have to play around with as many methods as you can until you find the right fit.

Thanks,
I really need to know how to awaken multiple times during sleep so I can try to do an obe / ld? Any advice?

Thanks.
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ForrestDean
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2019, 06:09:16 »

Thanks,
I really need to know how to awaken multiple times during sleep so I can try to do an obe / ld? Any advice?

Thanks.

Have you tried the alarm clock method?  lucidology.com has a Lucid Dream Timer.
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luffy28
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2019, 06:44:36 »

Have you tried the alarm clock method?  lucidology.com has a Lucid Dream Timer.

No. How do I use it? Also, what will the lucid dream timer do?

Edit:
I also have lucidology 101 - 103

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 08:07:46 by luffy28 » Logged
luffy28
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2019, 04:02:11 »

Can you tell me how to use it so I can have lucid dreams/obes?

Thanks.
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Phildan1
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2019, 19:09:22 »

Can you tell me how to use it so I can have lucid dreams/obes?

Thanks.
Luffy28, seriously, before falling asleep, say this to yourself a few times: I will be fully aware after falling asleep. Then fall asleep. Don't concentrate on anything, don't think. And you will be aware with practice and persistence after a while in the NP.
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luffy28
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2019, 23:06:24 »

Luffy28, seriously, before falling asleep, say this to yourself a few times: I will be fully aware after falling asleep. Then fall asleep. Don't concentrate on anything, don't think. And you will be aware with practice and persistence after a while in the NP.

Thanks,
Every time I try to awaken after four hours of sleep (or less) I end up staying awake. I need to know how to go back to sleep within staying awake for 3 to 5 minutes. Usually, within this time I stay awake. Any advice.

Thanks.
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Phildan1
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2019, 23:43:55 »

Don't over-complicate it. You wake up, if you can fall back to sleep, use this command thing as your focus of intent. If you can't fall back to sleep normally, stand up or sit up, do something, which grabs your attention, then continue with sleep. Not a hard thing to do. Just use what fits you when you can't fall back to sleep. For me, I tend to use my smartphone to read or listen to something by sitting up or use my tablet to play something. This is not a big task. What is, trying to get rid of hundreds or thousands of experiences of full awareness experiences.
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luffy28
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2019, 01:19:10 »

Don't over-complicate it. You wake up, if you can fall back to sleep, use this command thing as your focus of intent. If you can't fall back to sleep normally, stand up or sit up, do something, which grabs your attention, then continue with sleep. Not a hard thing to do. Just use what fits you when you can't fall back to sleep. For me, I tend to use my smartphone to read or listen to something by sitting up or use my tablet to play something. This is not a big task. What is, trying to get rid of hundreds or thousands of experiences of full awareness experiences.

So should I try to stay awake for one to two hours or three hours and then go back to sleep. The reason I'm asking is that I used this technique before and got lucid dreams.

Thanks.
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Phildan1
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2019, 08:37:25 »

Don't stay up until you can't fall asleep, like battling with the process. If you can't fall asleep with your intent, then, sit up, do something engaging to your mind. Then after a while, 20-30 mins, go to sleep and with you goal. That's all. Simple thing to do. It may take for a while to learn how it works for you with what setup.
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Rakkso
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2019, 11:53:58 »

If you manage to wake while feeling the drowsiness, that's usually a sign that you are close to the point B, or next to entering a non-physical experience. I've been trying after 4 hours or more of time but I find it difficult to stay aware and I end up missing the exit. However if you endure the heavy foggy sensations of grogginess you may likely end up having an experience. You can then do a rehearsal, try to visualize your last experience, and slowly but surely, you affirm it in you mind and you forget about your body, and done.
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Xanth
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2019, 17:06:33 »

Another difference is lucid dreaming obviously happens during REM sleep. Many obes dont happen during REM sleep which is really astonishing. How do they happen without REM?
Think about what you're saying here...

When you're ALREADY SLEEPING and ALREADY IN REM, you experience lucid dreams.
And when you're NOT ALREADY SLEEPING and NOT ALREADY IN REM, you experience obes.

Think about those two statements for a second.  They don't mean what you think they mean.
They don't mean that lucid dreaming only happens in REM and obes happen only outside REM.

This is the MAJOR issue with these inaccurate labels people have been using... they've caused people to stop thinking critically.
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luffy28
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2019, 21:04:05 »

If you manage to wake while feeling the drowsiness, that's usually a sign that you are close to the point B, or next to entering a non-physical experience. I've been trying after 4 hours or more of time but I find it difficult to stay aware and I end up missing the exit. However if you endure the heavy foggy sensations of grogginess you may likely end up having an experience. You can then do a rehearsal, try to visualize your last experience, and slowly but surely, you affirm it in you mind and you forget about your body, and done.

Yeah I ended up taking my meds last night and tried to awaken after 3 to 4 hours. I couldn't stay awake and went back to sleep. It usually happens (not being able to go back to sleep) when I don't take my meds. Like I said I took them last night and couldn't stay awake. What should I do?

Thanks.
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