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Author Topic: Is It Possible To Control Your Thinking?  (Read 1252 times)
PlasmaAstralProjection
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« on: April 13, 2020, 16:13:34 »

I recently had a conversation with Xanth on facebook and he said we can't control. (Probably thought it was an illusion or something.) But then I promptly asked the question - well do we have free will? He wasn't sure and felt it was a loaded question. But perhaps some of you can have thoughts on this. It's an interesting question because I've heard from meditators and astral projectors often in the past things like all we can do is let go. And control is just an illusion. While many also believe in some form of free will.

When talking about controlling our thinking, the question of free will, and taking control of our destiny comes to mind. I also get the sense from meditators and from astral projectors that it doesn't matter if we can control our thoughts and our destiny because we are all going to the same place in the end anyway, which I disagree with.

But I'd be curious what your thoughts are.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 16:27:55 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2020, 16:19:27 »

On a side note, on some level I believe I'm a very systematic, analytical thinker by the way. So much so that I'm working on writing several books, 2-3 of which will be about spirituality. So your replies will give me food for thought in at least one of my books.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 16:21:40 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2020, 16:19:27 »

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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2020, 05:50:37 »

Dude... my god... first, we never spoke about controlling your thoughts, at all.
and... secondly... *sigh*... never mind.  You really do only hear what you want to hear. 

The only real thing I told you is that YOU THINK TOO MUCH. 
Just STOP EVERYTHING you're doing... you can't even help yourself and you're wanting to write a book on matters of spirituality?!
Forget about writing books dude.  Just MEDITATE.

You're not going to grasp ANYTHING by over analyzing this stuff.  Less is more.

And please, if you're actually going to quote me... QUOTE ME... don't paraphrase.  >_<
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2020, 18:14:01 »

Dude... my god... first, we never spoke about controlling your thoughts, at all.
and... secondly... *sigh*... never mind.  You really do only hear what you want to hear. 

The only real thing I told you is that YOU THINK TOO MUCH. 
Just STOP EVERYTHING you're doing... you can't even help yourself and you're wanting to write a book on matters of spirituality?!
Forget about writing books dude.  Just MEDITATE.

You're not going to grasp ANYTHING by over analyzing this stuff.  Less is more.

And please, if you're actually going to quote me... QUOTE ME... don't paraphrase.  >_<

You said "And stop thinking you have control over ANYTHING."

It all starts in the mind anyway so yes if I can't control "ANYTHING" that includes thoughts.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2020, 18:18:53 »

Also I didn't use the word thoughts in our facebook conversation but I was talking about "imagination" and "visualization," which is thoughts.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 18:33:03 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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Phildan1
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2020, 18:31:50 »

Plasma, did you learn something over the years being here? Smiley I mean you don't "need" to, not because of that. Everybody is learning something.

Take it a little bit seriously, before Xanth boils up his head lol. You just need to silence your mind to let yourself to concentrate on other things. Focus of attention. Intelligence fails with over-analyzing things at one point so just try it at the being level. I know some people with this too much ego and intelligence and they are hopeless Smiley Maybe it comes from fear of the unknown, it depends on the person.

I try to analyze things too and it is many times a big block. And other times it reveals the problem. It depends on the case.

I'm only just observing the Pulse since a long while because of these pointless chats and dramas which people tend to write out, sharing their beliefs instead of learning more or opening up. Those fricking beliefs all the time, I wonder if anybody learns a thing that way. Literally, in the last years the Pulse started to be like a pithole of beliefs. It was that back then. I guess it all faded away when Frank and some others went away. I mean since that time, what is left is the information which anybody can extract from the forums. And the most are so lazy to do it. The other part is your own experiences, experiments and anything around.

No debate here. But in my opinion building from beliefs won't give knowledge. Then go and believe in a religion! We should learn and educate ourselves. I know that some people will be hurt but I don't care Smiley Respect for the few exceptions.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2020, 18:58:53 »

Plasma, did you learn something over the years being here? Smiley I mean you don't "need" to, not because of that. Everybody is learning something.

Take it a little bit seriously, before Xanth boils up his head lol. You just need to silence your mind to let yourself to concentrate on other things. Focus of attention. Intelligence fails with over-analyzing things at one point so just try it at the being level. I know some people with this too much ego and intelligence and they are hopeless Smiley Maybe it comes from fear of the unknown, it depends on the person.

I try to analyze things too and it is many times a big block. And other times it reveals the problem. It depends on the case.

I'm only just observing the Pulse since a long while because of these pointless chats and dramas which people tend to write out, sharing their beliefs instead of learning more or opening up. Those fricking beliefs all the time, I wonder if anybody learns a thing that way. Literally, in the last years the Pulse started to be like a pithole of beliefs. It was that back then. I guess it all faded away when Frank and some others went away. I mean since that time, what is left is the information which anybody can extract from the forums. And the most are so lazy to do it. The other part is your own experiences, experiments and anything around.

No debate here. But in my opinion building from beliefs won't give knowledge. Then go and believe in a religion! We should learn and educate ourselves. I know that some people will be hurt but I don't care Smiley Respect for the few exceptions.
Before I came to the astral pulse I believed I was deserving of eternal hell. I believed that I was a sinner. It was really bad. I suffered so much because of it. Szaxx knows this, Me and him talked in private messages for months. We talked extensively about my fear of hell. And he really helped me, and I trusted him because he had an experience of going to the bad lands himself. And I really changed my outlook in life. Before I felt trapped by my own beliefs, and my health condition. But I sought after the truth and I found a good piece of that here at the pulse. I actually changed my whole belief structure by what people had to share here. I mean you have no idea how bad I had it. My parents taught us children crazy things. Such as going to college is wrong, and worldly because it's the attainment of worldly knowledge to gain material success. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Most all of my spiritual growth has been through beliefs, intellect, and ideology. But I have meditated a lot in my past too. So don't think I have no experience with meditation. So I freed myself, so much just working with beliefs, ideas, and intellect.

Also the thing is that I'm not like most people when it comes to the intellect and spirituality. I actually believe that we can figure life and spirituality out in this day and age, well to an extent. I view it like a giant puzzle, and I love it. I believe in this day and age with all the spiritual material out there, it's possible to grow spiritually through the intellect. At the same time, I realize that many people can't do what I do. It's a special niche that I'm good at.
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Phildan1
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2020, 21:20:56 »

That's okay, the message was not just for you. I tried to point out a general problem with Pulse and its visitors.
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2020, 23:45:51 »

It happens everywhere on the planet and it is everywhere the same. One of my greatest teachers keeps on saying that everyone who is repeating/teaching something he or she has read or heard is lying. you can only tell the truth if you have experienced what you are talking about and then you can share your own experience and help others with it. she says this is the difference in between knowledge and wisdom. knowledge you get from books, but wisdom you live.
it is like as if you would talk about all the theories you read about no-mind but never were in a no-mind state, then you don't know how it feels or what it does to you. trying to help someone to get there without having experienced it would be a lie then...
Same with wanting to help a drug addict without never been an addict and so on.
In my own experience I found this to be true.
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2020, 00:30:03 »

It happens everywhere on the planet and it is everywhere the same. One of my greatest teachers keeps on saying that everyone who is repeating/teaching something he or she has read or heard is lying. you can only tell the truth if you have experienced what you are talking about and then you can share your own experience and help others with it. she says this is the difference in between knowledge and wisdom. knowledge you get from books, but wisdom you live.
it is like as if you would talk about all the theories you read about no-mind but never were in a no-mind state, then you don't know how it feels or what it does to you. trying to help someone to get there without having experienced it would be a lie then...
Same with wanting to help a drug addict without never been an addict and so on.
In my own experience I found this to be true.

you are right, Batgirl, but again, everyone's experience of the same thing could be different, so one person's truth via experience may be different than another person's truth via the same exact experience. One person may recover from addiction easily, while another may have a very hard time, so they both had addiction but their overcoming was different. I've always said here that existence is so complicated that none of us (while experiencing through such narrow point of view) can fully comprehend. And to that point neither can we understand fully free will, because we exist in so many(endless) levels as smaller pieces of spirit and larger pieces, and then we add the oneness. I don't even want to bother trying to explain, simply because no one can (as humans). Instead, focus on other things such as loving everyone, not judging, forgiving, helping out of sincerity and love, not to secure place in heaven. Along the way of course we can seek higher truths, but we have to admit that there are things we just cant explain and maybe we are not meant to understand here.
This is a place to share our personal experiences and of course to discuss out theories simply out of logic or thoughts popping into our heard (the case with me). Sometimes those thought popups may be from other lives/personalities, etc. These discussions are perfectly fine. Now, when comes to creating a guide (book) it is best to come from the author's own experiences, rather than gathered info from different sources and putting things together according to own logic.
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2020, 02:39:49 »

Now, when comes to creating a guide (book) it is best to come from the author's own experiences, rather than gathered info from different sources and putting things together according to own logic.

It happens everywhere on the planet and it is everywhere the same. One of my greatest teachers keeps on saying that everyone who is repeating/teaching something he or she has read or heard is lying. you can only tell the truth if you have experienced what you are talking about and then you can share your own experience and help others with it.

I have dealt with a deep level of deception and spiritual deception then getting out of that almost all on my own, so therefore I can help others with spiritual deception and getting a mind of their own to help them think objectively and independently about spiritual matters. My compass was self evident truth and my feedback was from objective reality. And the catalyst was my health condition.

Edit Besides it could be argued that doctors don't have to experience what the patient is suffering from to help them. If doctors were afflicted with all the same health conditions that they would treat, we would have no doctors. Their training is mostly done at the psychological, intellectual level too.

Thanks for chiming in.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 03:38:55 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2020, 03:20:57 »

Back to the original topic. I think free will is possible but only if certain psychological and experiential criteria are meet first. Do you's agree? I'd be curious to go into this with yous for feedback.
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2020, 09:43:35 »

Okay, getting straight to the one question you asked in your discussion title. While there may be some who can control or feel they can control their thinking I am not one of them. My thinker seems to have no shut off switch so in lei of that I have learned to hit the ignore or snooze button.
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"Real compassion kicks butt and takes names. ... But stay away from those who practice real compassion because they will fry your butt, my friend." _Ken Wilber
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2020, 22:25:20 »

Okay, getting straight to the one question you asked in your discussion title. While there may be some who can control or feel they can control their thinking I am not one of them. My thinker seems to have no shut off switch so in lei of that I have learned to hit the ignore or snooze button.
So then the question that comes to mind is does this affect your free will?

So let's define free will. Now if I Google define free will this is what I get.
Free Will - the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

But I think this definition of free will isn't the best definition, and here's why. For one to be free in the first place they must be connected to truth, because without truth there is suffering. The Buddha taught us that ignorance and wrong desire is the cause of suffering. So the idea is this, we can't be free unless we believe truth and act on it. If people don't believe truth then they get a worser reincarnation and they suffer a loss. If we believe truth and make life better here for ourselves and others then we are rewarded with a better reincarnation with more truth. The more we believe truth the more free we'll become.

So oddly enough one can't be relatively free without sacrificing first. Think of a doctor that has to go to school to become a physician. So not only is he building up positive karma healing people, he's supporting himself and he's got a lot of choice because he's making 150K a year.

So in order to be free in free will, we must be connected to truth in some way shape or form. And it seems that the more truth/understanding/wisdom/knowledge etc we gain the more we can end our suffering and the suffering of others. Think of an advanced highly evolved civilization. They have refined the truths of reality so much that they don't have violence and there's very little suffering.

So to answer the question does not thinking hinder your free will? Probably yes I'd say, and here's why I think that. A will and truth, are both functions of  the mind, which require thinking to refine and gain more. Also in order to connect to truth you must think, concentrate, use creativity. The end product of a "will" geared toward truth is freedom. Thus free will.

Thoughts?

I wrote all this when I was sleepy, so I hope it all makes sense. LOL

Thanks for chiming in Nameless.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 22:27:20 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 06:56:27 »

You said "And stop thinking you have control over ANYTHING."

It all starts in the mind anyway so yes if I can't control "ANYTHING" that includes thoughts.
You weren't asking about control in regards to thinking... you were asking about control in regards to your LIFE.
There's a massive difference there.  Clarity dude.  It's important.

Anyway... back to the regularly scheduled thread!  Smiley
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2020, 21:09:53 »

You weren't asking about control in regards to thinking... you were asking about control in regards to your LIFE.
There's a massive difference there.  Clarity dude.  It's important.

Anyway... back to the regularly scheduled thread!  Smiley
The word life was never mentioned in the facebook chat. I thought I was talking about "actions," "visualization," and "imagination". I guess "actions" could be considered "life". Anyway we can argue about semantics all day.

I was going to ask - "What do you think of creativity?" But instead I came up with a much more thought provoking response.

I feel like you and perhaps some others here have this idea that meditation will solve the world's problems. I use to have this idea too when I first started learning about meditation and astral projection. But I out grew this naive assumption after a while. First of all I think all the energetic, emotional, traumatic baggage that people gather while being on earth can with time in the afterlife easily pass away and fall off. Thus making meditation only really valuable to de-stresss, or if one reaches energetic salvation or Moksha, which very very few people reach, or perhaps it'd be philosophically, and analytically valuable. IMO certain types of concentration is what solves the worlds problems. I mean we look at all the advancement of human civilization with science, and the arts, it all came down to well placed concentration, and creativity, all of which use the mind. I feel like you don't even think creativity is good. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But IMO creativity is a work of the spirit. It's an almost magical process by which we can synthesize new ideas, technologies, things and liberate us from the mundane. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. LOL just kidding, but seriously I feel like I've almost outgrown my stay here, I mean I feel like I can't even have thought provoking creative, conversations here sometimes. Like I need someone to challenge me. I love constructive criticism with well thought responses.

I know you'll probably say something like "I never said that meditation would solve the worlds problems." Prove me wrong. Maybe I'm misunderstand something, but if you can't even talk to me about some of the most basic spiritual ideas then how I find it hard to believe you'd give a much different answer for even marginally more complex questions about real world issues.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 21:22:14 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
Karxx Gxx
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2020, 21:13:39 »

Some notes on thinking and free will - my personal opinion. learned also from channeled beings. Im meshing info together.

Free will and control go together for the most part. Letting go (of control) is also something that can be done intentionally. For one to really believe no free will can imply a couple of things : beliefs that coincide with it.

I've heard free will is the lack of knowledge. (not exactly sure if it was only limited to this). Which makes sense. If one knew everything, you could say they would know what to do, what they will experience, etc. It would be an experience that one would want to stop eventually imo. So, they make it to where they dont know everything.

If you think everything is controlled, then you have to assume something that is doing the controlling has it's own free will. If you dont, even the controlled are controlled? Doesnt make logical sense.

If you think us humans dont have control, but things controlling us do, then you believe in complete separation to the source that has control/will and separation in general.

if one is all, concsious is all, we are source, that part... then we are an intrinsical part of 'god' that decided to lose control over itself seemingly . You cant get rid of ones free will if it truly exists, but you can try to hide it as much as possible. You can try to experience the lack of to an infinite degree, but since it's a truth of reality, it will be revealed to each part of awareness eventually.


Also, when it comes to the mind/ego, the control might really be an illusion. And it can get complicated to explain it, but it easier to explain with the principle of reality.
1 truth is what you vibrate at/what vibrations exist withen you are what you experience. It is possible to change these vibrations, and the simple act of awareness does that on its own. Each one of us (assuming) have a level of awareness.

So to talk about controlling your thinking, its better to view it as selecting the vibrations in which you are tuned in/vibrating at. You can focus onto a select subject, or perhaps only one word for a while. But if you also have other vibrations existing withen you, they are subject to pop up. Thats just a trait of awareness : it becomes aware of what is going on withen itself. So random thoughts may pop up.  

 Perhaps you can have more mastery of awareness and sit it upon a specific thought for a long time. Once you stop having intetion to do so, then it goes where it goes. It might have a free will of it's own. It's a weird duality.. Awareness doesnt 'stop'. It can be controlled. That's what it seems. And perhaps awareness is the one in control, but it let's the mind play a game where it thinks its in control. Or it could be... etc. You can make a couple of theories with this.

But i believe separation is an illusion. Duality needs two. And awareness is one part of the two and everything else is the counterpart. Mind falls in the other. Both are consciousness. Regardless of what has control, awareness or mind or you,   If one does, both do.
Was fun thinking and talking about it.  
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PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2020, 04:38:12 »

The word life was never mentioned in the facebook chat. I thought I was talking about "actions," "visualization," and "imagination". I guess "actions" could be considered "life". Anyway we can argue about semantics all day.

I was going to ask - "What do you think of creativity?" But instead I came up with a much more thought provoking response.

I feel like you and perhaps some others here have this idea that meditation will solve the world's problems. I use to have this idea too when I first started learning about meditation and astral projection. But I out grew this naive assumption after a while. First of all I think all the energetic, emotional, traumatic baggage that people gather while being on earth can with time in the afterlife easily pass away and fall off. Thus making meditation only really valuable to de-stresss, or if one reaches energetic salvation or Moksha, which very very few people reach, or perhaps it'd be philosophically, and analytically valuable. IMO certain types of concentration is what solves the worlds problems. I mean we look at all the advancement of human civilization with science, and the arts, it all came down to well placed concentration, and creativity, all of which use the mind. I feel like you don't even think creativity is good. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But IMO creativity is a work of the spirit. It's an almost magical process by which we can synthesize new ideas, technologies, things and liberate us from the mundane. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. LOL just kidding, but seriously I feel like I've almost outgrown my stay here, I mean I feel like I can't even have thought provoking creative, conversations here sometimes. Like I need someone to challenge me. I love constructive criticism with well thought responses.

I know you'll probably say something like "I never said that meditation would solve the worlds problems." Prove me wrong. Maybe I'm misunderstand something, but if you can't even talk to me about some of the most basic spiritual ideas then how I find it hard to believe you'd give a much different answer for even marginally more complex questions about real world issues.
Thanks Karxx Gxx for PMing in response to this message.
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2020, 18:20:28 »

I know you'll probably say something like "I never said that meditation would solve the worlds problems." Prove me wrong. Maybe I'm misunderstand something, but if you can't even talk to me about some of the most basic spiritual ideas then how I find it hard to believe you'd give a much different answer for even marginally more complex questions about real world issues.
Just meditate dude, just meditate.
Your mind is too noisy to do anything.

Nobody here can help you until you figure yourself out first.
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2020, 10:17:18 »

Just meditate dude, just meditate.
Your mind is too noisy to do anything.

Nobody here can help you until you figure yourself out first.
Most of the greatest discoveries that have come to humanity didn't come about by meditation. But rather by thinkers in the sciences and arts.

I mean don't get me wrong. Meditation is great. Some people benefit from it more than others, but it's only one focus on all that is.

You know I've seriously considered just sacrificing all my time into meditation if we get a UBI universal basic income. But until then I still need to work a job and pay the bills, write books, and discover new and better truths. Perhaps one day I will discover meditation as my best truth. But I'm not there yet, and that is perfectly fine IMO. I have made peace within myself without meditation being front and center.
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2020, 04:29:37 »

Most of the greatest discoveries that have come to humanity didn't come about by meditation. But rather by thinkers in the sciences and arts.

I mean don't get me wrong. Meditation is great. Some people benefit from it more than others, but it's only one focus on all that is.

You know I've seriously considered just sacrificing all my time into meditation if we get a UBI universal basic income. But until then I still need to work a job and pay the bills, write books, and discover new and better truths. Perhaps one day I will discover meditation as my best truth. But I'm not there yet, and that is perfectly fine IMO. I have made peace within myself without meditation being front and center.
DUDE!!

I'm not telling you to go find a cave and sit there meditating for years on end... take 10 minutes a day.  Think you can spare that?  Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2020, 01:42:48 »

DUDE!!

I'm not telling you to go find a cave and sit there meditating for years on end... take 10 minutes a day.  Think you can spare that?  Smiley

what i do is meditate in my comfy computer chair... or recliner right now. for 20 mins maybe... then watch a documentary and play online... the meditate again for maybe 10 mins... then go for a walk... then play some computer games... then go outside and meditate for maybe 15 mins... my computer chair feels like my portal lol smiley

Edit: xanth 10 mins a day even is really good. i sat down and meditated for 10 mins the other day and my "third eye" or whatever it is buzzed so hard i loved the feeling and fell into it. felt good... started hearing "mumbles" of voices too but can't make out what they say. i always thought you had to meditate so much like hours and hours and hours a day to make progress... i think source opens that stuff up for us trying even just ten mins. source knows u are trying to connect.... Tongue
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 01:54:04 by MarsZM » Logged
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