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Author Topic: Lucid Dragon  (Read 5107 times)
cainam_nazier
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« on: May 27, 2002, 23:03:59 »

Sounds like wacky tabacky to me.



David Rogalski
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astralc
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2002, 23:30:34 »

no_skillzz

I too went to have a look-see, and I suspect that it just might be contributing to the placebo effect. If a halucinogen were freely available in the US, then why isn't it banned by now? Really, do people still believe snake medicine works?

As the Fool in Shakesperes 'King Lear' said, "Nothing begats nothing." If you put nothing into your spiritual growth then you will get nothing out of it. Better to stick to your daily meditations than waste your money.

Astralc

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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2002, 23:30:34 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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lateralus897
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2002, 23:38:43 »

I trust that it is not a lie, but there are probably some catches. It looks as if it is made of Salvia Divinorum, which was used by shamans. It is illegal in only Australia. It will probably give you what it says, but from what I know of Salvia Divinorum, it may not give you any control over your experience. Maybe the extra ingredients give you conscious awareness, as the drug is called "LUCID dragon." I personally trust pure Salvia Divinorum as a safe drug to take (although you may have a bad experience) but their extra ingredients may be addictive.

 
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Rob
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2002, 01:46:06 »

85% Salvia Divinorum hmmm...IMO if you take this expecting only to have an OBE you will get a lot more than you bargained for lol.
Ketamine is better at producing an OBE type state anyway, is very safe etc etc. But you will still experience serious mind altering effects with both! Which is interesting, but not very helpful if you just want to get OOB.

btw I think you have to take quite a lot of salvia before you start projecting, and from what I have heard the projections sound much more like they are internal - ie lucid dreaming, rather than astral projecting.


 
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2002, 03:45:55 »

Inguma...

K is able to produce OBEs, but not for all.. infact I believe that only 40% of high dosage trips involve an OBE.

I suggest using dex. It is legal and at high doses (third-plateau) it is almost certain to induce an OBE, though a very very different one than "normal" Smiley

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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2002, 03:45:55 »



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Grenade01
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2002, 17:07:34 »

heh heh wacky tabacky


Salvia is pretty neat stuff, but terrifying at the same time. Believe me I have used it twice with reality shattering effects a few more times with reality changing effects, and I also have a plant in my room.  =)    (that was homemade 5x extract btw)

Ive had a high dose of ketamine and all it did was make me dizzy and paralysed
ugh that wasnt fun

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alfa_33au
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2002, 11:00:17 »

I wonder about inducing obes with outside substances.
We cant handle them to well awake, makes me think it would be similar in the astral.
But can i ask, if i even have one alcoholic drink, it interfers, anyone else have this?
Like if im offered a drink, i have to answer according to what my night plans are.  
Paola
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monicat777
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2002, 18:58:10 »

Im not going to say that the stuff you guys are talking about does'nt induce obe. But as far as ketamine goes..if you think it's totally safe, your wrong. Further more..how far are you really going to go with the additive of an herbal or otherwise drug. You are'nt training your mind, you are inducing an experience . if you can't make your own herbal cocktail to assist in some type of journey you are'nt schooled enough to be messing around with anything!! I don't mean to be critical, but this sounds rather irresponsible and like a short term.."look what i can do!!"  That is'nt a long term goal of  heightened awareness or any way to increase growth.  Experiment I guess but don't think it is like a shortcut. And for the love of God be careful. ketamine can depress your system to the point that you are non-responsive and your heart can stop and you can stop breathing. It's called a k-hole and you can't always get out.        
                                          love,
                                              Monicat

 
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Grenade01
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2002, 00:40:34 »

Tyrone
Nobody claimed it was a long term spiritual goal, but some people who have tried repeatidly to have OBE's to the point of being frusterated into disbelief or quitting altogether may benifit from even one little drug induced obe just to give them something to shoot for.  Im not saying thats the right path for everyone, or anyone for that matter, but your body is your own, and if you feel adventurous enough to experiment with something potentially dangerous, then more power to you.

I agree about ketamine.  The experience I reffered to was a K-hole, and I didn't like it one bit.  

Salvia is nothing like a K-hole, and much much more like a normal OBE.  Although I still don't recommend it be used regularly it is worth trying out.  A salvia experience can be very frightening though, so I dont recommend it to anyone who thinks they cant handle talking to various sometimes scary beings in another realm while dealing with the fact that you feel increadibly stoned at the same time.

read about salvia divinorum, and salvia divinorum experiences
http://Http://www.erowid.com

A website to order decent quality salvia products (its among the cheapest but there is cheaper)   http://Http://www.mazatecgarden.com

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nitetravler
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2002, 03:38:49 »

Hmmm...this brings up an interesting question.  I'm about halfway through a book by Lobsang T. Rampa (You Forever!) and he states quite emphatically that taking mind-altering substances like drugs or alcohol can drive one into the "lower astral" where you can find yourself face-to-face with rather unpleasant characters called 'elementals'.  If that's the case why bother?  If mind-altering substances really do keep one from accessing the higher planes, and if they should effect the quality of an OOB for the negative, then is it worth it?  I'm not presuming to speak for anyone here of course.  As the saying goes, "different strokes for different folks".      

I agree with Alfa_33au when they said that if you can't handle substances while fully awake, then how can you expect to handle them when in an altered state?  At any rate, with my luck I'd get pulled over by an astral cop and sent back to the physical.

A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or else what's Heaven for?
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alfa_33au
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2002, 13:23:35 »

Hey nitetravler,

Hey, your the first person i have come across, that has read any Lobsang Rampa.  Sweet.
Paola
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Rob
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2002, 17:31:08 »

Lol monicat are you addressing me in your last post?! No ketamine is physically very safe, and has been used as an anesthetic for humans and animals for a number of years. Since Vietnam I think when it was first mass produced, as it is easy to make. If someone got injured on the battlefield one of their squaddie mates just just pumped them up on k and let them trip out until they had access to proper medical help. As for k-holing, well I wasn't really talking about going that deep, lower doses are very interesting and fun. When I tried it the other day I found I was able to induce vibrations almost instantly, and with very little effort - I wasn't really talking about spontaneous ones. To get out of body in any state would be good for me, just to break down the sub-conscious barriers I seem to have set in place. Relying on anything is a bad plan, and any drug will start giving bad effects/screwing up your mind/lowering your vibrations/stop you from accessing higher planes/etc (all different perspectives on the same thing) in the long term. This is an important point. Just trying a drug once or twice will invariably by safe, as long as you are mentally stable enough to cope with the effects. I love trying new things, they expand my mind and experiences, they are always fun and/or interesting, and the best friendships are cemented when intoxicated in some way.

Actually the strangest things about K, which was quite depressing for me, was when all my mates were up they started coming out with really deep interesting statements (no, I wasn't just imagining it!) but when down again they were like "yeah we were talking such s**t" - they simply could not comprehend what they were thinking before. I felt lonely about then because I think like that all the time, but there are very few people who care about these things, and even fewer who can understand them....
....seems to me like they were accessing higher states of consciousness than their base states could comprehend.....

ps I personally found k a much nicer drug than salvia d.

pps Nitetrawler: I think the "elemental" beings Lobsang Rampa is talking about are the same things as negs, and I would agree. By taking drugs your energy body and defenses are weakened, combined with the psychological instability drugs can emphasise, makes you a tasty target for passing or pre-existing negs.

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Grenade01
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2002, 03:50:57 »

Way to go Inguma haha
I guess everyone has their preference
every time I have used K, it has given me slight adverse after effects (mood swings and mild depression)  which is odd i guess..but very noticable so i stay away from it

I agree about its safety though
Youd have to snort so much to OD
and that would a dirty experience before it even hit you with that much crap in your nose
ugh
even a little bit burns like a mofo

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nitetravler
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2002, 08:26:10 »

That's right Alfa_33au, I've been reading Lobsang Rampa for years, though I haven't picked up any of his books in about 20 years.  It was Rampa's books that first got me interested in astral projection (I was about 18 at the time).  His writings about life in a Tibeten lamasary is fascinating.

Inguma, would 'Negs' happen to be shorthand for 'Negative Entities'?  Also, can they cause any harm to inexperienced travelers (according to Robert Bruce)?

A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or else what's Heaven for?
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Rob
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2002, 16:25:04 »

Nitetravler - yes negs = negative entities, which covers a huge range of creatures, some of which I am told can harm projectors. But the general rule seems to be keep your distance from them and they'll leve you alone, like most animals in the physical I guess.

....yeah K burns something horrid, I was in serious pain, but worth it!
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(!!!Formerly known as Inguma!!!)
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Grenade01
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2002, 05:40:23 »

Well..
To each his own

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monicat777
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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2002, 18:51:27 »

Well, I guess I have an unpopular oppinion.  That's okay.  Because, when it comes to this particular subject I do know what I'm saying.  The only reason I brought this to the attention of the readers is because I think it's important that people understand not only the good stuff but the negative possibilities as well.  I'd like to add that k is not always reliable and you don't always know what your getting.  So, it does'nt always take a whole lot for things to go wrong.  To induce an obe through the use of k implies that you would be using more than a little.  I have had more than one experience with a lot of things.  I think it is to everyone's benefit to understand what you are putting in your body and how it affects you.  The complete history of k and how it was used in the past is of no consequence.  Safe etc. etc. it is not.  Experimentation is fine but the reality is it only takes one time. That is not me being a "square"...that's REALITY!  I just don't want to see drug use made into this purely enlightening thing where everyone is happy and things are just grand.  And, I'm certainly not running around like 'just say no'.   But, no one needs to die about it.  And, you absolutely most certainly can. That is the point, simply.  Don't go running around acting like an herbalist either.  You can hurt yourself, open a book.  ANYONE AGREE WITH ME AT ALL?

 
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Grenade01
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2002, 19:12:41 »

Well
not always reliable
unless you live by mexico like me =)


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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2002, 17:29:52 »

Hello every one my name is Ilya Im new too.
I've been working on New for about a week.  and started meditating, trying 30min every day.
I tried to project number of times, once concentrating on my third eye  I started feeling slight vibrations, thats as far as I've ever gotten.
Also would the fist step for me be to feel the energy (chi) like through meditation or something, since as of now I cant feel the energy.

One more thing,  like Grendade and some of you mentioned do you think it would be a good Idea to try Lucid Dragon, K or just salvia d. just like once or so just to know what it is Im working towards for.

thanx a lot
Ilya

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Ryno
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2002, 19:20:09 »

Monicat, I understand where you are coming from. My motto is, "Everything in moderation" Once you start telling people there is a drug to help them do this or that, they will be taking it everyday. To prove it, loook at how many people are on anti depressants. Its an easy way to get out of having to deal with your emotions. Same with Lucid -dragon or anything else. People want result without having to work for them.

 
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Grenade01
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2002, 06:57:30 »

Personally I wouldn't ever touch k and expect to have anything good come out of it.  People claim to have very psychadelic experiences in other realms, but your mind is far gone long before you get anywhere near those types of effects, and your likely to become very sick and dizzy as well.  I dont even think you'd be able to remember the experience well anyway.  As for the lucid dragon - probably a waste of money when you can just get salvia (which is probably the only useful ingredient in it) a lot cheaper.  Go ahead and give it a try if your feeling daring.  I truthfully believe it couldn't hurt.  Just be prepared to have your ego shattered to bits, and possibly (probably) more scared than you've ever been before.  The stuff is powerful.... a true salvia experience makes other hallucinogens (like mushrooms / lsd) seem like nothing... the only thing that keeps you sane is the fact that your thinking is pretty intact (other than the fact that you have no idea whats going on) and it lasts only minutes.  Memory and thought is pretty good on salvia, but thats insignificant when reality completely changes before your eyes, and you (sometimes) forget who you are and how you got there.

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Ashfo
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2002, 07:09:05 »

Reason I do drugs is for the same reason I dabble in OBEs etc... Curiosity.

I just wana know everything, feel everything, do everything.

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astralc
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2002, 09:05:50 »

Monicat777

I agree with you smiley

Although I would not really ask that everyone stay away from drugs, as a psychologist I try to put the pieces back together in those humpty dumpties that fall off their wall.

Addiction is ugly, as is psychosis, there is nothing worse than seeing someone experiencing a psychotic episode, it turns the stomack and shrivels the guts, it makes you cry inside to see someone in such great fear.

I worked in a unit for the worst cases, fortunately for only a short month or two, and it made me think, lots. I see kids now, school kids who have turned to dope and do it for breaky and lunch and dinner. Within two years they are headed for psychosis, it is not nice to watch, advise and help, but to see them slide down further and further away from life.

I have tried a few things and I must say that my 20 odd years doing taoist meditations I don't need it, I can drop out of reality with a few breaths, bliss. My best advice is: if you really want the real thing you just have to work for it.

The microwave generation want instant enlightenment, it doesn't work like that. God doesn't give guns to children, you have to have responsibility and maturity to earn that right.

This forum is great for airing issues and interests like this, but today i am on a downer. I had to address our school memorial service for a student who suicided in the school toilet block last year, shotgun to the heart. I spent the past 12 months trying to help his friends come to terms with it, the worst part was having to tell his best friend that his mate was dead, that hurt. So, if I am a bit dreary, please understand.

Last word, don't get so down that drugs are the only thing that picks you back up.

Astralc

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Grenade01
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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2002, 07:04:46 »

Good post astralc =)
I like it
I agree

But like Ashfo I just find it all interesting
Trying not to use drugs to escape, but rather to experience
I dont think it will go awry ...I dont want to escape
I want to learn!

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no_skillzz
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2002, 18:47:18 »

Hey,

I saw this site, www.lucid-dragon.com , and was wondering what you guys think of it. Is it really "100% safe"?
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