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Author Topic: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projecting  (Read 3911 times)
Teomim
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« on: December 13, 2004, 03:57:26 »

The more i read about this the more i start to believe that true lucid dreaming and projecting are really one and the same.

Z?
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Mattoid
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2004, 03:59:51 »

Lucid dreaming is more fantasy based to put it simple.  Cool
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2004, 03:59:51 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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The Night Mist
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2004, 11:29:56 »

....yeah and besides that, when you OBE you can bring information from the real world that was not in your head and that only happens if you get out of your body...you have no way of knowing that unless you get it from somewhere.
I watched a TV show once about some scientists that wanted to see if OBE is real so they got a test subject and he was sleeping on a bed and above was a shelf with a piece of paper that had a number on it and the subject was suppose to get out of his body, look at the number , memorize it and go back and tell the people there. Guess what, that's what happened and they were pretty freaked out, they were trying to come up with "a logical explanation" blah blah  ....but you see there are still a lot of skeptics. And besides the fact that he got the number right, at the time he said he was out of his body his brain waves changed into something very strange so the scientists there couldn't explain that too....but people these days are soooooo ignorant, they prefer to say that it isn't possible because they can't do it...that's the way it works. Even if you try and see it doesn't work, you just like to say it doesn't work for you and that is fake. But I tell you this, it does work and trust me when I say it is as real as it gets...realer than real! Smiley
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Teomim
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2004, 17:30:54 »

I am not a sceptic, don't get me wrong, I know there is a diffrence between the two, ive had both, many times. But i just think that they are closer to each other than previously beleived.

ps this forum is exactly what i was looking for.

~Z?~
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catmeow
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2004, 21:26:07 »

Hi all

LD vs OBE... This is one of those difficult areas.

My position has always been (and still is) that they are different.  I have posted about this a few times in various threads, for instance here:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15487&start=10

But it really does seem as if the distinction is blurred.  One of the "tests" we can apply is to try reading something.  In LD this always yields a different result every time you re-read something.  In OBE the result is much more stable.

Another test is the 360 deg vision thing.  I don't think this happens during LD but it certainly can happen during OBE.

Teomim, Mattoid, Night Mist: You guys all seem to recognise a distinction between LD and OBE, whilst agreeing that they are close experiences.  I agree.  But I do think they are different experiences.

I think some really careful thinking is required here....!

catmeow
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2004, 21:26:07 »



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Mattoid
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2004, 21:56:47 »

you're too cool for school catmeow.

And yeah, you're right.  wink
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Teomim
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2004, 23:16:37 »

"Another test is the 360 deg vision thing. I don't think this happens during LD but it certainly can happen during OBE."

Ah, yes. But in the movie Waking Life (my personal #1 fav) they speak of 360 vision, wilst explaining LD.

ahh, the plot thickens. . . Cool

~Z?~
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snic
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2004, 03:50:58 »

my personal view is that when we dream our conscious is in the astral. when we realize that we are dreaming it changes to LD but we are not 100% conscious, but we can be, which then turns into an OBE. so the gist of what I'm saying is that an OBE is 100% conscious, and an LD is not. They are two roads leading to the same place, the astral.
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Mattoid
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2004, 03:53:08 »

Nice theory.  Cool
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astralpwka
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2004, 09:19:31 »

Hmmmm.... huh  

Lucid Dreaming: easy for me to do, and do so frequently... never had 360 vision, despite Waking Life claims ( I liked the movie, btw...). In Lucid dreaming everything is a solid illusion. Travel is quick and easy.  

Astral Projection (RTZ experiences): Hard to do, sometimes vision is tough to find, I'm incorporeal. Travel can be difficult.

Similarities: Both can feel dream-like. Weird things happen in both.

I don't want them to be the same, but I want astral projection to be as easy as lucid dreaming. I like to play with possibilities when in either mode, and experiences feel different to me when tried between lucid dreaming and astral projecting.

I vote they are different.

 Cheesy
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And I find it kinda funny - I find it kinda sad - The dreams in which I'm dying - Are the best I've ever had
Veccolo
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2004, 10:20:17 »

They are the same, imho. This clearly can be seen when WILDs and APs are compared. The experiences (realistic or dream-like), the induction techniques (staying concious until the experience starts) and the bodily sensations (vibrations, voices, heaviness etc.) one gets are mostly the same. The only difference is the interpretation of the experience.

Someone might argue that WILDs are no dreams then, but APs. That's of course possible, I just don't see any reason to think that way (Occam's Razor rules!). But, to each his own of course.

A DILD (dream induced lucid dream, the standard one) is a little different. Here the dreamer realizes that it is a dream _after_ he/she fell asleep. This, however, is the only difference to the WILD/AP. The fact that the dreamer has to realize it after falling asleep often results in lack of control and blurry vision in the beginning, but both can get better after some time or when using specific stabilization techniques.

Just my opinion of course.
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Teomim
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2004, 20:08:58 »

Excellent feedback, keep em commin'! Cool


~Z?~
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catmeow
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2004, 23:04:17 »

On those occasions which I thought were OBE rather than LD, they seemed "real" even when I woke up, and the environment (RTZ) stable.  I also heard a "click" when I exited.  Sounds insignificant, but methinks very significant....

I vote LD different to AP!

Teomim - "Waking Life"? Check out this excellent thread:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15274&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Mattoid - high praise!  Blurred by your sleep deprivation problem no doubt, but appreciated nonetheless...  lol wink

Any more votes?!

catmeow
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The bad news is there's no key to the Universe. The good news is it's not locked. - Swami Beyondananda
Teomim
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2004, 01:56:19 »

this "click" you speak of, is indeed a very signifigant sign. Your right on track there.

Thanx Cat for the props on the thread. Most appreacated. Be sure to check out the soon to be comming "Tao Te Ching".

on an off note, it seems that everyone here is so much farther ahead in your progress. I'm def in my element here. It sounds kinda cheesy, but i feel a very powerful positive "vibe" from everyone here.


~Z?~
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~Music is my Sinaquanon~
ralphm
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2004, 20:44:34 »

I think they are the same and different. Same in that you could move from one to the other, but different becuse a good projection has no mental constructs like dreams imagery to intrude.
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Huwie
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2004, 22:58:33 »

No offence intended, but I think most people here are approaching the problem from the wrong end.

I think that lucid dreams are a product of the mind, whilst OBEs are not.  The fact that there are a lot of similarities is hardly surprising, given that both involve non-physical perception.

Which leaves us with the real question, how to tell the difference?  We all have our theories on that, I'm sure.  What I'm trying to say, ultimately, is that just because there are lots of similarities, doesn't mean they're the same thing.  Imagine two different towns that are reached by the same road, except at a point where the road eventually splits into two, both of which lead to the two towns.  The journey begun in the same way, but the destinations are different.  That's how I see the whole picture here.
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catmeow
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2004, 00:33:06 »

Hi Huwie

Yes I agree with you, I think they are different.  It does not follow that just because both experiences are similar, they are therefore the same thing.  You expressed it well.  Cool  OBE still feels real when you wake up....

catmeow
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