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Author Topic: Multidimensional Realities - various OBE phenomena explained  (Read 21591 times)
MDM
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« on: February 06, 2012, 18:57:25 »

I haven't posted for a while, but I recently gave a presentation via Skype to the Institute of Neuroscience and Consciousness Study exploring different levels of consciousness and many OBE phenomena, some of which may be familiar and others not so. I hope it will also serve as a bit of a road map.

OBEs are receiving more attention now from the scientific community as demonstrated in this talk with regard to its audience. Hopefully penetration into Consciousness Research may perhaps even lead towards developing mechanical means for obtaining OBEs, given the right funding.

As I pointed out in the video there is great value in forums such as this one, for harvesting data in order to establish a consensus of some of the phenomena widely experienced and reported. So I am always very curious if any of you can confirm similar experiences, to establish an element of validity via statistical frequency. So keep posting, reporting and discussing.

If you have any further questions regarding this talk, please respond to this thread and we can all discuss here if you like.

Here is the video: http://vimeo.com/35800793. Thanks for watching.

For further, more detailed information you can find the link to my website here: http://www.multidimensionalman.com

Thanks very much, Jurgen
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Xanth
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 20:59:27 »

Hiya Jurgen!

I've watched the first few minutes of the video so far, and I agree with everything I've heard.  Smiley

I look forward to watching the rest of it!

I'm in full agreement that Lucid Dreams are DEFINITELY the best way to experience all the stuff we discuss here. 
I'm saddened when I see people here or other forums creating these dividing lines in their experiences where they label LD's as "just a dream".

I'm going to link to this on my own website too, if that's okay?  Smiley
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 21:30:13 by Xanth » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 20:59:27 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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MDM
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 21:20:04 »

Thank you Ryan, I agree, the thin dividing line between LD and OBE is often only a shift of focus or losing the dream narrative.
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Lionheart
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 23:04:05 »

 MDM (Zurgen) I love your site. I use your Binaural Beats almost every day. But am currently testing with a device known as the Laxman. The Laxman is a sound/light machine made in Germany. It is the top of the line in it's class and sells for $499 Euros, you can totally customise it to your own liking. You can write your own programs as well, which is the reason I chose this device over others. I posted a link here to your site for people to find your Binaural Beats a couple of week ago. So far that is the only thing outside of our own natural abilities that I have found to bring constant success. I just received the Laxman 4 days ago and have been getting to know it better. The first day was getting use to the feel of the unit, strap tightness, volume, brightness levels. Last night though it put me completely to sleep, that was the first time I have ever fell completely asleep while Phasing. I was using a deep Delta program on there named "vibrations" and it completely knocked me out. I remember the first 2 minutes, then my mind was a blank. I agree that it would be great for science to somehow trigger a automatic OBE response. I'm sure in some field they already have that, they have been working with Remote Viewing etc. for many years now.
 Keep up the great work!  smiley
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 00:03:13 »

I'm saddened when I see people here or other forums creating these dividing lines in their experiences where they label LD's as "just a dream".

Yea, I think the major problem in regards to that is a lack of consistent vernacular when we talk about this stuff. Many people (especially beginners) relate higher lucid awareness experiences to OBEs and lower to Lucid Dreams, but many of us know this is hardly the case.

Cool site MDM, I'm going to check out this video now.
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 00:03:13 »



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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2012, 01:20:45 »

That video was amazing! I am so happy I came across this. You put a lot of clarity into all of this stuff. You said some things that really hit home for me: The idea that creation is happening every moment, and we are active participants.  shocked Was that artwork yours? Those images were absolutely beautiful. 
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 01:30:59 »

MDM (Zurgen) I love your site. I use your Binaural Beats almost every day. But am currently testing with a device known as the Laxman. The Laxman is a sound/light machine made in Germany. It is the top of the line in it's class and sells for $499 Euros, you can totally customise it to your own liking. You can write your own programs as well, which is the reason I chose this device over others. I posted a link here to your site for people to find your Binaural Beats a couple of week ago. So far that is the only thing outside of our own natural abilities that I have found to bring constant success. I just received the Laxman 4 days ago and have been getting to know it better. The first day was getting use to the feel of the unit, strap tightness, volume, brightness levels. Last night though it put me completely to sleep, that was the first time I have ever fell completely asleep while Phasing. I was using a deep Delta program on there named "vibrations" and it completely knocked me out. I remember the first 2 minutes, then my mind was a blank. I agree that it would be great for science to somehow trigger a automatic OBE response. I'm sure in some field they already have that, they have been working with Remote Viewing etc. for many years now.
 Keep up the great work!  smiley

Lionheart, thanks for the feedback on the soundtrack. Your Laxman sounds similar to the Lucid Light Generator http://www.gesund-im-licht.at/index_skip_e.htm designed by two Austrian scientists and used in some clinics, mainly to help people relax but it often triggers OBEs and STEs (Spiritual Transformative Experiences) as well. Anthony Peake, the author of "Is there Life after Death" used it to get experience of OBEs to write his latest book "The Out of Body Experience: The History and Science of Astral Travel". He told me the device had worked for him. He never had an OBE in his life, but he did with this one. Don't rush out to buy one yet, its rather pricey, but the science behind it sounds sensible. I imagine the next generation of technology might be as simple as a next generation iPad app, and an iPad with a more powerful LED screen, mounted on a stand perhaps 8 inches away from your eyes (eyes closed). Sony also have developed a 3D vision headset, which could perhaps be used running Lucid light Generator software.

Progress has also been made after scientists localized the area of the brain activated during lucid dreaming. This is very promising. I am still planning a more effective way of using the binaural beats in combination with designed music with the help of a composer friend, who currently writes movie scores. I can foresee that in the not too distant future the Games industry might even get hold of this. Whether this is a good thing, judging by the high level of violent game content, is another question. But who knows, people might develop and appetite for STEs. After all what can be more rewarding?

Another technique, which is much cheaper, relies on our sun. With your eyes closed sit on a deck chair facing the sun. Do your meditation. Observe the light falling though your closed eyelids, but link it mentally to your "inner light" with a powerful feeling of surrendering to it, rising from your heart chakra. Keep it short and avoid the midday sun so you don't fall victim to the tomato syndrome. Use factor 50 sun shield for this.

We'll just have to remind ourselves that most of the pioneering work is done here on this and other forums by people devoting time to explore their inner space and at the same time discovering who they really are.
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 04:55:14 »

 Yes the Laxman is similar to the "Lucid Light Generator" that is why I chose the Laxman. The LLG is only being sold right now to professionals and you have to go to them or have a seminar teaching you how to use the device. So at the moment it is only open to professionals such as Doctors/Psychologists, not the retail industry yet. I feel it will stay that way for many years to come. I have also started some personal research with a device known as the "Bio Tuner". There are a number of Sound/Light Devices, EEG machines etc. currently on the market. They can't make any proven claims yet for success, but it all seems they are trying to get there. Mostly the machines are being used to control stress, but they also seem to be trying to target Autism/Add/Dementia etc. right now. I fear in the end though that just like with every other new development or discovery made that the powers that be will find a way to use a device like this for manipulation and greed. Unfortunately that seems to happen more than not. They already have created Light/Sound weapons that can be used on the battlefield to create confusion and panic. I saw a show on the History channel last year related to that. It's good to see someone like yourself that wishes advancement for the good of mankind, not just the monetary reward. People have the right to know who they really are and why they are here. I think that alone would create a fantastic change for the future. If we could only bypass "ego", it would be so much easier to find.  smiley
 On another note, I haven't really ever taken control of my dream during the first time. I have to explain that because there are many times where I awaken in the morning with full dream recollection, but I don't like the results of that dream, so I close my eyes and return to it to change the outcome. This is something that I experience about 1-2 times weekly now. I can't remember waking in a dream and controling it though. I have had many times where I awoke with sleep paralysis and the feeling of a presence near, but not in an actual projection. This was more of an after effect of the OBE. I do though Phase twice a day and find my success with the Astral Realms there.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:46:07 by Lionheart » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 12:29:25 »

That video was amazing! I am so happy I came across this. You put a lot of clarity into all of this stuff. You said some things that really hit home for me: The idea that creation is happening every moment, and we are active participants.  shocked Was that artwork yours? Those images were absolutely beautiful. 

The artwork that was mine is the animation and some of the later landscapes. They can also be downloaded as wallpaper (free) from my other website here:
http://www.magicfantasyart.com/magicfantasyart.com/Free_Fantasy_World_Wallpapers/Free_Fantasy_World_Wallpapers.html

The Meditation soundtrack can be downloaded here:
http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Free_Deep_Meditation_Sounds_-_Binaural_Beats.html

There are two meditation soundtracks on this page. The top one, "OM", contains the OM mantra chant and a shamanic drumbeat combined with binaural beat. The bottom one (red box) is a binaural beat only going into a deeper and deeper phase.

I am very fond of the OM mantra. The reason I made this track was because I discovered when chanting "OM" during OBEs I get into a higher state of consciousness which it is often accompanied by powerful ecstasy.

If you try it during your next OBE I would be curious whether this works for you too.



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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, 14:55:02 »

What beautiful artwork!  Wow!
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 18:13:23 »

Yea, I think the major problem in regards to that is a lack of consistent vernacular when we talk about this stuff. Many people (especially beginners) relate higher lucid awareness experiences to OBEs and lower to Lucid Dreams, but many of us know this is hardly the case.

I think it would be helpful if folks could provide examples to clarify the point they are trying to make along these lines.

I think there is no denying that there is a big difference between a Lucid Dream and a regular dream.

A full conscious OBE that begins with conscious exit from the body has different characteristics compared to an LD but it can quickly degenerate into an LD. In fact, based on what I read across many forums, that is exactly what happens most of the time. I think that is why so many want to say they are basically the same. For them it basically is.

When I hear this suggestion I suspect the speaker really has not ever had a full conscious OBE where they travel to a very real astral 'location' and explore it and return with solid recall of the reality there that can and will persist over time. Or maybe they had one or two of those types of experiences and then backslid a bit to the standard LD type OBE and without further experience they lose that experience as a solid reference point to refer to and make a meaningful comparative differentiation among their experiences.

Beyond the astral there is the mental/causal type consciousness and many say that it does not exist. Well, for them it might as well not exist since they have never been there.

Beyond that there are other levels, but again, for those who have never been there it may as well not even exist.

I recently went to a place where a voice began giving me instructions or 'lessons' of a sort. I could call him G2 on level z12. But then I read MyBigTOE and I recognize where Tom Campbell experienced essentially the same thing. I have no problem with giving the "place" a name that can become part of a belief system. It is only a belief system for those who have never been there. A descriptive name does not change that particular realm of Consciousness for those who have experienced that corner of Consciousness.
But reducing it all to the same type of experience by fiat LD = OBE basically throws the baby out with the bathwater, from my point of view. But for those who never had a baby in the bath in the first place it will make no difference.
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 21:08:53 »

I think it would be helpful if folks could provide examples to clarify the point they are trying to make along these lines.

I think there is no denying that there is a big difference between a Lucid Dream and a regular dream.
That's a really good point.
It'd be nice if people pointed out "where" they believe the difference lies.

Like in your statement that there's a big difference between an LD and a D... each person might be sitting there nodding their head in agreement with you, but each having a different idea about what is "different".  Smiley

I like the rest of your post as well.  Just wanted to point that out too. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2012, 22:19:30 »

That's a really good point.
It'd be nice if people pointed out "where" they believe the difference lies.

Like in your statement that there's a big difference between an LD and a D... each person might be sitting there nodding their head in agreement with you, but each having a different idea about what is "different".  Smiley

I like the rest of your post as well.  Just wanted to point that out too. 

Well, it is pretty simple. A lucid dream is a dream where the dreamer knows he is dreaming.
I think we all knew that, mostly. The myriad nuance elements that one could introduce are just obfuscation.

We also hear that an LD can be morphed into an OBE.
But in reality, this is not as simple as it sounds. I have done this with varying degrees of success on multiple occasions. I know that some wisely recommend against returning to the body once Lucidity is achieved, and I agree for the most part, but if I want to get a real hardcore, full conscious OBE I find that (in my experience) a return to the body and a full conscious projection works best.

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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, 22:33:49 »

My definition of the difference between a Lucid Dream and an Out-of-Body experience is that in a Lucid Dream you can make love to Angelina Jolie whereas in a OBE she will slap you if your try.
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2012, 22:43:07 »

My definition of the difference between a Lucid Dream and an Out-of-Body experience is that in a Lucid Dream you can make love to Angelina Jolie whereas in a OBE she will slap you if your try.

This one works for me...

on several different levels.

 cheesy cheesy
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2012, 23:32:55 »

I like your line of thinking Rudolph.

After having about (75?) lucid experiences since I first got into this type of stuff in 2008, I'd say I still can't draw a line between the two. I think they mesh together, the defining factor being the varying degrees of subjectivity and objectivity.

I have had quite a few experiences where I had all of the classic OBE exit sensations but I ended up in what seemed to be entirely subjective realms (i,e, my town being very different inhabited by random people and people I know).

I've had the experiences where I seemed to become conscious I was "dreaming" during the course of an OBE, and I was able to be conscious in truly alien worlds, with animals I have never seen before and on beautiful beaches - which are completely out of my conscious minds realm of thought.

On my blog I recently started I try and call all of these experiences "NPEs" - non-physical experiences. In short, I haven't found a neat way to separate my experiences and many seem to merge into each other any contain elements of both OBEs and LD. I don't think it really serves any practical purpose to obsess over and try to separate the two either.
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2012, 00:01:22 »

 Rudolph if you wish to become more aware in your Lucid Dreams, try practicing different techniques in the day time. Program your mind with Brain Entrainment. I find rubbing my hands, listening to the sounds of the friction then asking myself am I sleeping or awake works pretty good. You do it so many times in the day while awake that you start doing it as habit in your dreams as well. But in your dreams it won't be the same, so you will have your answer. There are a ton of variants of this that can be used, some people turn lights on/off, some snap their fingers etc. You will find that with time you are able to wake up at will. My problem is I wake up as the Lucid Dream is coming to an end, I need to program my own mind to become aware earlier in the experience. I do constantly though go back into dreams and change their outcomes. I guess you could call that a form of Lucid Dreaming.
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2012, 00:06:54 »

With Lucid Dreams there is usually some form of narrative attached, you are aware that you are dreaming, but you follow some sort of script coming from the subconscious. I have often noticed when using Lucid Dreams as a platform for OBEs by focusing on an object or on the ground until full clarity or waking awareness is established, that the dream narrative disintegrates or dissolves. OBEs take place in consensus environments shared by others. Lucid dreams largely consist of dream content or at least create a dream overlay or a dream projection within the consensus environment. The way I see it is a bit like somebody sitting at a desk in the office supposedly working, but in his mind he may be in a different place altogether. I don't know whether any of you have, but I have come across people during OBEs I identified as sleepers, involved in something else without being present, kind of absent minded.

In Lucid dreams you can get up to all sorts of mischief, in OBEs there are boundaries, usually imposed by other conscious individuals sharing your environment and there are limits to your energies, depending which dimensional level you are operating on. You are no longer almighty. People often report problems with flying, only managing hovering a few feet above the ground etc.
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2012, 00:21:28 »

 Zurgen, what is your view like there? Are you point consciousness, using astral eyes or do you see an entire body form around you? I ask this because there is a lot of times that I feel like I am viewing but only as a pair of eyes. Mind you I don't try to look for a physical body. I hear other people talking about a "silver cord" attaced to them and wonder how they would be able to see that. When in the Astral I can see 360 degrees but never see any object attached to me. If I wish to see something behind me I just change my visual focus, there is no feeling of my head turning to see.
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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2012, 00:25:30 »

I don't always succeed in establishing full waking awareness and find myself compelled to follow some ludicrous dream content, getting annoyed that I cannot break through. When this happens I noticed that part of me had become fascinated or seduced by the dream content until I lose interest in becoming OBE. This is always a bit of a problem, but this can also be deceptive.

In one experience I was walking through a cartoon town, with cartoon houses and cartoon people drawn beautifully in black ink and ink-washed with colour. I could see cartoon shops with large cartoon TV sets playing, you guessed it, cartoons. I thought this was totally ludicrous and insane. I figured I was in some kind of lucid dream and didn't know  how to OBE. Then I saw these two normal guys at the end of the cartoon road and they grinned broadly at me, delighting in the fact that I seemed to be "trapped" the cartoon world. When I chatted to them it turned out that they where the designers of this 3d cartoon town and they were illustrator like myself. So I was attracted into their world by affinity. They then proceeded in telling me all about their craft and hobby and I have to say we had a really fantastic exchange of ideas.

I often use such events to gather information. Talking to people is another good way of dispelling dream narrative.
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2012, 00:34:59 »

 You say in your video that you have a difficult time Phasing from your meditations? Why do you think this is? When you close your eyes do you see scenery, visions or just the blackness there? I ask that because since I have started Phasing last year twice a day, I can now just close my eyes and see a motion scene in front of me, For some reason it becomes incredibly vivid in the shower. Examples of this, closing my eyes and seeing I am on top of a cliff with Waterfalls all around, or close my eyes and I am in a underground ocean cave, sometimes even with a boat in it.
 Is there some kind of chat room or site that you frequent, I would love to chat more , but in real time instead of this delayed chat here? Xanth has a good IRC Channel here.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 00:37:52 by Lionheart » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2012, 00:37:39 »

Zurgen, what is your view like there? Are you point consciousness, using astral eyes or do you see an entire body form around you? I ask this because there is a lot of times that I feel like I am viewing but only as a pair of eyes. Mind you I don't try to look for a physical body. I hear other people talking about a "silver cord" attaced to them and wonder how they would be able to see that. When in the Astral I can see 360 degrees but never see any object attached to me. If I wish to see something behind me I just change my visual focus, there is no feeling of my head turning to see.

I find it can be either, a point of consciousness like a disembodied pair of eyes or a proper body with a silver cord attached. I find when I am in consensus environment, talking to people or an involved in "rescuing" somebody I tend to have a body like everyone else. I don't know whether anyone of you have noticed when looking at your hands, a technique described by Robert Waggoner and original by Carlos Castaneda that your hand may not be fully formed. I sometime am quite shocked when they look a bit misshapen and only when I stare at them for a while do they gradually appear. The Astral Body seems to be dependent for its existence by some form energy alignment to the environment it operates on. When it is in a limbo state, not attracted to any particular environment or energy it can just be a point of awareness. That's my take anyway.
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2012, 01:02:05 »

You say in your video that you have a difficult time Phasing from your meditations? Why do you think this is? When you close your eyes do you see scenery, visions or just the blackness there? I ask that because since I have started Phasing last year twice a day, I can now just close my eyes and see a motion scene in front of me, For some reason it becomes incredibly vivid in the shower. Examples of this, closing my eyes and seeing I am on top of a cliff with Waterfalls all around, or close my eyes and I am in a underground ocean cave, sometimes even with a boat in it.
 Is there some kind of chat room or site that you frequent, I would love to chat more , but in real time instead of this delayed chat here? Xanth has a good IRC Channel here.

Lionheart, I have a confession to make. I see OBEs as a minor way of exploring consciousness. The reason I am finding it hard using meditation for OBEs seems to be my lack of interest. Ever since I began meditation forty years ago I only did so to attain clarity about what I was and what the world was all about. OBEs were a by product. I recorded them and then did the book and the website because I thought it was important to map out the wider territories of our reality and consciousness, because we seem to be stuck in the spiritual and mental dark ages. People still believe that when they die there is nothing there. I felt documentation is important. These are our new frontiers, it's like discovering America. We are still a very primitive species, mostly asleep and addicted to our physical senses.

But my main interest lies in the higher states of consciousness, the "HOME" territories, the seat and origin of our consciousness. If you go to my website it's listed under "Super Dimensions" and I feel this is not even the beginning. I feel there is a lot more I need to do and there is little time (nearly didn't make it last year). So I spend most of my meditation time to focus on what I think is important. To me that is awareness full stop.

I would like to chat more, but this is a novelty me spending time on the computer. I am planing to write a book, but its got to be not more dry information and I am focusing on that. Also I still have a 12 hour job working from home as an illustrator. I'll do my best popping in here.
What I've seen here, there is a lot of sound knowledge around, lots of good work and humor. So I'm off to bed now.
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2012, 01:23:19 »

Rudolph if you wish to become more aware in your Lucid Dreams, try practicing different techniques in the day time. Program your mind with Brain Entrainment. I find rubbing my hands, listening to the sounds of the friction then asking myself am I sleeping or awake works pretty good. You do it so many times in the day while awake that you start doing it as habit in your dreams as well. But in your dreams it won't be the same, so you will have your answer.

rubbing your hands?! weelwee?! no shpit!??

then what?, Lionheart?

So then what do you do ?

 cheesy

 cheesy cheesy cheesy
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2012, 01:38:03 »

 Rubbing your hands together, listening to the sound and asking yourself if you are awake or not. That is the entire process. Mostly what it does is to put your focus on your hands that in the Astral will look much different. This is a different technique other than looking for things you are doing that are impossible in the real/physical world, such as flying. When I was kid I thought I had awoken in the morning, I was in my kitchen eating my breakfast after putting on clothes, everything I usually do upon waking, just to all of a sudden wake up and see I was still in my bed. That was won of the strangest experience I had ever had. But, that comes under the analogy of "false awakening".
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