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Author Topic: OBE and alcohol - is it possible without alcohol?  (Read 7454 times)
catstorm3
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« on: May 14, 2009, 04:28:10 »

Our consensus reality dictates that use of alcohol (and other drugs of course) in the long run reduces spirituality. Also (the consensus is) that one becomes dependent on them to achieve these experiences. So the consensus, so it unfortunately WILL BE.

Be that as it may, I resolved that OBE was the most important thing in my life, bar nothing, that I would give up my taste for alcohol and others, in order to pursue this goal.

Paradoxically, I then discovered (when OBE failed to be realized within the first month! LOL), that when my resolve weakened and I returned to alcohol (on a regular basis), having almost given up my goal, that the experiences then materialized!

Not consistently. The formula for alcohol induced Lucid->OBE, is to have a lot of alcohol, preferrably mixed with some over the counter medication. Then to fall asleep early (say at about 6.00PM). The OBE/Lucid would occur about 2-3am.

This would not always happen, sometimes there would be no dreams. I could never predict when it would happen. As it is said with these phenomena, they happen when you least expect them.

The interval between is an average of about 2 weeks.

Dingo joked in Memborable forum that maybe alcohol could be a method. Actually it could be, but the consensus would be that one would become dependent on it as means for achieving the OBE.

One of my questions is: Why after the Lucid->OBE (and abstinence from alcohol for a few days) there are absolutely no dreams, no recall of dreams. It eventually  (well not that long actually Sad ) tempts me into trying the method again? Is there a natural rebound period after a normal OBE when no dreams or OBE seem possible?

Also my original question, which Dingo said was yes, that would OBE's occur naturally if I abstained long enough? How long? Would the OBE's be more controllable? Better? Not as strong... ? Sad

It really is an important issue because alcohol use and abuse is (in our reality) not a Good Thing, for many people concerned. However, I would prefer to continue using it if it is the only method of OBE.

I do have another method, achieving relaxation through bio-feedback, which seems to work better without alcohol (although once again, paradoxically, it has happened once that a hangover improved it!)

Awaiting your valued feedback and experience,

Neil
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:29:47 by catstorm3 » Logged
Lighten
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 07:01:18 »

First of all, mixing alcohol with pills can be dangerous, just be careful. 

usually when you are intoxicated (on any drug), you don't dream. This seems to be a universal thing. Then, the day after heavy usage of drugs or alcohol you should have very vivid dreams.

What you wrote seems to be the exact opposite of that. In which case, no one can help you because you are ab normal. 

Its possible that you are influencing the outcome by having certain expectations.

Its pretty cool that you stopped trying to have OBE and then you had one. In the long run its prolly not best to use any substance in order to reach OBE, but for the short term why not.

You can get used to the experience, build up a neural network for OBE in your brain, and odds are they will be easier in the future.

If a system works don't change it until it stops working.
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 07:01:18 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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catstorm3
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 10:26:32 »

First of all, mixing alcohol with pills can be dangerous, just be careful. 

Absolutely don't care one bit.

Only interested in OBE even permanent.

If I'm abnormal it will be an advantage, then maybe something else will work consistently for me. I think your comment about being abnormal was a bit over the top, considering the evidence you have.

You evidently don't understand the concept of consensus reality (thats the reality which we push on each other and agree upon, which forces reality as we see it.)

Interesting tho what you said about building neural network.

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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 10:48:20 »

You would most definitely have a far higher quality OBE experience *without* some sort of drug.

I would go as far as to say that you will never have a true full blown lucid OBE as long as you have a drug in your system. You will remain in the buffer zone of your own mind-thoughts (as real as they may seem) and never actually reach objective consensus realities outside your own mind. This is for your own protection and the protection of other minds.
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catstorm3
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 11:15:22 »

You would most definitely have a far higher quality OBE experience *without* some sort of drug.

Yes that rings true, especially in light of the last experience I had. It seemed to have limitations, and I couldn't even begin to push past them.

Thank you, it is what I suspected. Do others agree? Perhaps others have had experience with this.
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 11:15:22 »



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Fourthdimension
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 17:33:06 »

i like a 'drop of the cure' every now and again and i agree that it gives you intense  vivid dreams and usally gives me them the night i have it but i all ways have lucid dreams anyways. but if i wanted to experience altered states while drunk it becomes impossible becuase i still feel the sense of the dizzyness and spinning when i close my eyes and when i do become lucid the dreams dont seem as good when i m drunk they seem more like whatching a tv soap without knowing what the hell is going on or why your here and it usally brings alot of my fears in my dreams when am drunk.i mean by all means dont give up the drop but just dont depend on it mabye try with and without it.

aiight all am off to work lol
catch u all later
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dingo
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 17:48:59 »

First of all, I want to point out that the consensus is rarely correct. If it was something to be relied upon, we'd never make any scientific progress, the world would be flat, the sun would orbit us, dinosaur fossils wouldn't exist (because they weren't part of consensus reality before we found them) etc.

Secondly, a limited amount of alcohol each day has been shown to provide health BENEFITS. http://www.askmen.com/sports/foodcourt/45_eating_well.html

The question of whether you become dependent on a substance is whether you allow yourself to. Drink alcohol only in moderation, and you won't have any problems. I find it hard to believe you could become dependent on a substance for OBEs though. Most of them tend to be spontaneous, and once you've already had a few, spontaneous OBEs increase in frequency a lot. So if you used a hangover to induce an OBE one night, most of the time you're still going to be having sober, spontaneous OBEs.

Don't mix alcohol with medication without doing proper research on the drugs first. I've had OBEs during hangovers without any medication, so it works without the added danger of additional drugs anyway.

Quote
usually when you are intoxicated (on any drug), you don't dream. This seems to be a universal thing.
That's an over-generalisation. There are MANY drugs that give you wild and vivid dreams. Most psychedelics will do that. It's true that when you've passed out (from alcohol or any other drug), you won't dream, but that's because it's not sleep. You can still dream while drunk (number of dreams may be fewer than normal, though).

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What you wrote seems to be the exact opposite of that. In which case, no one can help you because you are ab normal. 
Are you going to back that up with evidence? Am I abnormal too?

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You would most definitely have a far higher quality OBE experience *without* some sort of drug.
Is that personal / moral bias, or is it something you've found to be true through experience? It's tempting to think this, but where's the evidence?

I haven't kept careful notes on my alcohol intake so far (will do now though!), but if memory serves me correctly, alcohol intake doesn't seem to affect the quality of my OBEs. In fact, the last two OBEs I had were the morning after a night where I had a bottle of red wine, and I had MORE mental control during those experiences than in any other. Afterwards, I felt fully rested, and I experienced no more hangover symptoms.

Maybe it's the combination of disturbed sleep and slight dehydration that does it. And my spontaneous OBEs usually occur just after waking up from a dream when my mind is still adjusting back to reality (and the dream scenarios taint the OBEs), so perhaps the reduction in the number of dreams during a hangover helps with mental clarity.

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I would go as far as to say that you will never have a true full blown lucid OBE as long as you have a drug in your system. You will remain in the buffer zone of your own mind-thoughts (as real as they may seem) and never actually reach objective consensus realities outside your own mind. This is for your own protection and the protection of other minds.
Why?



Here's version 1.1 of the hangover method:

1. Drink enough to make you giggly and happy, but not enough to make you pass out, fall over, or vomit.
2. Drink a little water if you need to, but not enough to completely cure the hangover.
3. Go to bed early.
4. ? ? ?
5. OBE!

Important note: consuming lots of alcohol is also a good way to induce liver disease. Use this method at your own risk.

I'll try it out next month, and I'll post any results I have.
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dbmathis
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 02:58:40 »

I may have some advice to offer here, but don't quote me or consider this to be the "gospel".

I started experimenting with AP about 4 - 5 months ago from scratch, having never attempted to consciously induce an OBE in the past that I can remember. I seem to be natural and had several OBEs in the first 2 weeks of trying and continued to have them for the next month. Then I had the two lower wisdom teeth cut out of my head and began taking heavy narcotics for 3 weeks and the OBEs stopped completely along with all dreams.

I have not tried alcohol and AP together but I would imagine that it would hinder your progress and success just like the drugs, unless of course you are taking LSD. I think LSD might help. Ever heard of Alex Grey? Seems that LSD helped him tremendously.

My observation suggests that OBEs, meditation, remote viewing, etc all rely on ones ability to control awareness. Drugs and alcohol have always diminished my awareness in the past. This is why it's against the law to drive while intoxicated, because people lose awareness and crash into and kill people, which is very much objective reality.

Good luck on your journey.

Best regards

David
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 03:04:57 by dbmathis » Logged

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catstorm3
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 06:17:17 »

Quote
My observation suggests that OBEs, meditation, remote viewing, etc all rely on ones ability to control awareness. Drugs and alcohol have always diminished my awareness in the past. This is why it's against the law to drive while intoxicated, because people lose awareness and crash into and kill people, which is very much objective reality.

Yes I too have been down the road of drugs. My concern is that alcohol makes it "too easy" this would definitely result in one becoming dependent on it in order to recreate the experiences. Therefore my theory is that one has to learn to do it without alcohol in order to be able to make it sustainable in the long run (continued alcohol abuse can only lead to diminished health, awareness, spirituality etc., as an average)



« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 06:43:05 by catstorm3 » Logged
catstorm3
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 06:30:45 »

First of all, I want to point out that the consensus is rarely correct.

Yes agreed 100%, except that I would like to point out that unfortunately the consensus almost always creates reality for people. The difficulty is breaking one's own unseen agreement with that consensus, at which time the consensus no longer applies. In order to break the consensus, (as Bruce Moen points out), one has to have direct experiences which conflict with the consensus. Its no good just saying "no I don't agree with that. you can't bend spoons with your mind".That won't allow you to mentally spend spoons. If someone bends one in front of you, its a step in the right direction towards gaining the ability.

The consensus is so strong against drug experiences in particular, that it tends to wipe out completely any value they have. Try posting any experiences you might've had. Consensus (from sometimes people who have no experience with it and are merely repeating the consensus rote fashion) will immediately invalidate it. Then it makes you in turn invalidate it for yourself, on an unconcious level. Thats why posting experiences is a mixed blessing. One immediately runs into the consensus of people, and then unconciously take it on.

Quote
Most of them tend to be spontaneous, and once you've already had a few, spontaneous OBEs increase in frequency a lot. So if you used a hangover to induce an OBE one night, most of the time you're still going to be having sober, spontaneous OBEs.

This is very good news. Thank you for providing this information. I think I need to tee-total for a month or two, to give this a chance to happen.

Quote
Don't mix alcohol with medication without doing proper research on the drugs first. I've had OBEs during hangovers without any medication, so it works without the added danger of additional drugs anyway.

Also valuable information. Most, if not all, drugs are recommended not to be taken in combo with alcohol, and I "agree" this could be dangerous for some people. So people, watch out.

Quote
In fact, the last two OBEs I had were the morning after a night where I had a bottle of red wine, and I had MORE mental control during those experiences than in any other. Afterwards, I felt fully rested, and I experienced no more hangover symptoms.

Funnily enough it was also a bottle of red wine which triggered my experiences. I think we're onto something here?

Quote
Here's version 1.1 of the hangover method:

This is exactly the method I used, so I second your 1.1 method. Going to bed early seems key to the experience.

Quote
Important note: consuming lots of alcohol is also a good way to induce liver disease. Use this method at your own risk.

That's my point. We're all responsible people here, for example people underage should not consume alcohol. LOL.

Quote
I'll try it out next month, and I'll post any results I have.

Look forward to it. I will try the sober method for the next 2 months and post my results.

Smiley Thanks Dingo Smiley
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Lighten
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 07:26:56 »

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Are you going to back that up with evidence? Am I abnormal too?

I don't have any scientific evidence but I attended a rehab for over a year and came in contact with a whole lot of drug users. We had several conversations about dreaming and drugs, and it was universal that when you are on drugs you don't dream and the day after tends to bring vivid dreams. (marijuana, alcohol, crystal meth, coke, heroin) If you have dreams on any of these drugs then yes, you are abnormal. the word abnormal doesn't have a negative connotation btw.

Psychedelic drugs do give you vivid dreams, but you cant fall asleep on these drugs. Therefore you aren't on the drug anymore. To back that claim up : I took mushrooms last month and the same night had one of the most vivid and insightful dreams I have ever had.

Quote
First of all, mixing alcohol with pills can be dangerous, just be careful.

Absolutely don't care one bit.

Only interested in OBE even permanent.

I hope I'm not taking this the wrong way, but it sounds to me like you are hinting at suicide. Please don't commit suicide.

On a final note, Laughing Gas (nitrous oxide) Induces OBE. When you do have an OBE though, you wont have any motivation to do anything because of the laughing gas, makes you lazy. Goes back to what dbmathis said, lack of control / concentration.




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catstorm3
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 08:21:43 »

I hope I'm not taking this the wrong way, but it sounds to me like you are hinting at suicide. Please don't commit suicide.

LOL you really are into the consensus big time Smiley Smiley

Enjoy


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Lighten
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 10:32:07 »

First of all
Quote
LOL you really are into the consensus big time

That doesn't make any sense.

secondly, the fact that you don't care if you kill yourself on pills and alcohol is a bit disturbing.

Quote
Only interested in OBE even permanent.

**Bells and whistles** Hello, don't get mad at me for something you said. Again, please don't kill yourself. 
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interception
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 11:58:25 »

Is that personal / moral bias, or is it something you've found to be true through experience? It's tempting to think this, but where's the evidence?

Well, I personally found that even a small amount of alcohol in my system made my OBE's erratic and less controllable. It is all about control, for me. I do not enjoy being taken for some kind of ride where I am not sure what is real and what is my drugged mind playing tricks.

That giddy happy feeling you get from moderate alcohol intake is an artificial happiness. Anything that is artificial affects the control I have and therefor affects my experience.

If you can use alcohol in moderation to better manage your OBE experiences, than go for it man! We all respond differently to various substances besides.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 12:00:52 by interception » Logged
dingo
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 13:10:50 »

If you can use alcohol in moderation to better manage your OBE experiences, than go for it man! We all respond differently to various substances besides.

Thanks dude. I didn't mean to sound so arrogant before. Anyway, I guess I'll soon find out what effect it does have on OBEs.
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catstorm3
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 18:03:40 »

**Bells and whistles** Hello, don't get mad at me for something you said. Again, please don't kill yourself. 

Hi Lighten

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I appreciate your feedback. Don't worry, I have no plans of killing myself.

Smiley Smiley
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dingo
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2009, 00:13:57 »

OK this week I had alcohol on two occasions - one on Tuesday (1.5 pints of ale), one on Wednesday (3 glasses of wine). Thursday morning I had two OBEs.

I should probably also point out I had some kind of mental breakdown this week, so I wasn't in a normal state of mind.
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catstorm3
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 06:33:14 »

For me, its the other way around. I've now discovered that alcohol has been holding me back all the time.

I had my first AP without alcohol, and it was mind blowing (see my other post).

 smiley smiley
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Aquarious
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2009, 16:12:53 »

OK this week I had alcohol on two occasions - one on Tuesday (1.5 pints of ale), one on Wednesday (3 glasses of wine). Thursday morning I had two OBEs.

I should probably also point out I had some kind of mental breakdown this week, so I wasn't in a normal state of mind.

Thought Iid clock in here as havent checked these boards in what must be months..

I think the whole alcohol thing is just based on the fact that we sleep lighter when intoxicated so we remember our dreams/Obe's easier so they seem more vivid.

I've been having a tough time mentally too lately so I just wanted to say you're not alone on that front mate.  smiley
 
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Astral316
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 02:21:04 »

Since this topic has been expanded from alcohol to include all drugs in general, I thought I'd throw in my $.02... before I quit habitual weed smoking I could trigger spontaneous vibrations and OBEs/OBE strings without much difficulty (some I could control with ease, others were forced.) Now my ability to do this has noticably diminished while the frequency, duration, vividness and realistic qualities of my lucid dreams have increased. Now maybe I haven't been off the ganja long enough, but I don't think any blanket statements can be made between drugs and astral projection.
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catstorm3
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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2009, 06:37:22 »

the ganja long enough, but I don't think any blanket statements can be made between drugs and astral projection.

Drugs can give some absolutely mind blowing experiences. The problem is that they can be highly life threatening.

I once moved into another body on a particular drug. But I never experienced sleep paralysis and vibrations like I did when I was sober. That for me sealed it. It is such a drastic experience, better than anything I experienced on drugs. I way prefer it. Now I have the patience to try and achieve it naturally, without the risk of killing myself off every time. Ok, the risk of killing yourself on ganja is far less than what I was playing around with.

I found the experiences (while out of this world) on drugs seemed to have little lasting value and one soon forgot about them. Side effect is that one becomes absolutely dependent on them to achieve this affect, and one doesn't realize it is perfectly possible without the crutch. As you said, the clarity is better without ganja (though I never specifically OBE on ganja).

Also if you read Monroe's material, the astral you achieve on drugs is Focus 21, like a containment area for crazies. Someone else mentioned in this thread you would never experience real projection into the shared reality, for your protection and others.
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