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Author Topic: Question about the afterlife  (Read 5531 times)
zorgblar
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« on: January 19, 2008, 22:01:58 »

What version of the afterlife do astral projectors generally believe in?The christian one?Or the occult one?The christian version of the afterlife is that when you die your spirit goes to a literal heaven or hell like in the christian bible.The occult version of the afterlife is that when you die you go to a spirit realm called the astral plane.Which one do you believe in?I believe in the christian one.
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Old Dood
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 23:14:40 »

If you read Robert Monroe's 3 books then read Bruce Moen's 4 books (5 if you count his latest Afterlife guide book)
You will get a good idea of what to expect.

Link: http://www.corrystuart.com/RMonroe.html

Link: http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/glossary.html#Lifeline

Not EVERYone believes this by the way. This is one view but, I happen to believe it.
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 23:14:40 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Stookie
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 14:06:05 »

Quote
What version of the afterlife do astral projectors generally believe in?

Like Old Dood said, I think many AP'ers like the Monroe model of consciousness. If you haven't read Robert Monroe's books, check em out. Especially "Ultimate Journey".

In the Monroe model, there is a focus of consciousness known as the "Belief Systems Territories". This is supposedly where many different heavens of the various religions exist, due to the number people who believe in them. If enough people believe in something intensely enough, it's created in this area. People who believe in them will dwell there until they realize it's not real or are "retrieved" and see that there is more.

This is also why Monroe wrote books and created The Monroe Institute - he wanted people not to "believe", but to know first hand. If you really want to make AP a part of your lifestyle, I think it's important to keep an open mind and be ready to change your beliefs over and over again. Listening to someone's advice is one thing, but don't take anything as being set in stone until you can confirm it for yourself.

One last theory, in case you've never heard this before...

The astral and afterlife isn't a "place", it's not something you can travel to. You don't actually leave your body when you OBE. It's all inside yourself, within consciousness.
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zorgblar
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 15:45:21 »



The astral and afterlife isn't a "place", it's not something you can travel to. You don't actually leave your body when you OBE. It's all inside yourself, within consciousness.

You claim that when you astral project you project INWARD and NOT OUTWARD?How so?Because i always thought when you projected something literally left your body.Im confused. huh
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zorgblar
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 16:37:09 »

In addition to the belief in a literal heaven or hell i also believe that sometimes a person's spirit can get trapped on earth and be stuck between heaven and hell and become a ghost.
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 16:37:09 »



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Old Dood
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2008, 17:37:00 »

In addition to the belief in a literal heaven or hell i also believe that sometimes a person's spirit can get trapped on earth and be stuck between heaven and hell and become a ghost.
Yes, i believe one can become 'stuck' as a ghost. In Monroe's thinking that was Focus 23.
Seriously, check out these books. I would suggest reading Monroe's books first then Moen's.
To me anyways, Bruce Moen's books are an extention of Robert Monroe's books in a sense and it is easier to understand his in my opinion once you have read Monroe's first.

As for Projecting Outwards.  All dimensions are all around us. Same 'space' so to speak.
When we raise our 'Vibrational State' then we can 'see' these other Dimensions, Focus Levels, Realities, etc.
I am still 'working' on it.  For I am still a n00b! Cheesy

It is the best way I can explain it to you.  Maybe Stookie can explain it better.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 17:38:44 by Old Dood » Logged

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zorgblar
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2008, 18:46:27 »


Seriously, check out these books.

I have read monroe's third book called ultimate journey but not his first two.
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 15:23:08 »

You claim that when you astral project you project INWARD and NOT OUTWARD?How so?Because i always thought when you projected something literally left your body.Im confused. huh
Sorry, I wasn't trying to make things complicated. I think the whole theory hinges on the idea that EVERYTHING is consciousness. The entire physical world and everything around you, your body, thoughts, feelings, desires - is consciousness. The experience of separation, that you are independent of the world you live in, is held only in perception. In this sense, there is no "out there". You don't travel, but just change the focus of your awareness somewhere else in the spectrum of consciousness. The physical area of consciousness is described as having a "slow vibration", making us percieve the world as separate. The further "inward" you go, the faster the "vibration" (vibration might be the wrong word), the less physical and separate it is. Eventually, there is no separation between you and anything else, the stereotypical "becoming one with the universe".

Don't take my word for it, it's all just descriptions of something indescribable. Stay skeptical. There is no agreeable science when it comes to astral projection. You just have to follow your gut.

If you have time, go here ( http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html ) and scroll down to FRANK'S MODEL OF THE WIDER REALITY. It may answer some of your questions.
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zorgblar
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 16:45:11 »

Ok stookie i will try that.
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zorgblar
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 20:05:19 »

You don't travel, but just change the focus of your awareness somewhere else in the spectrum of consciousness.

If you don't literally travel outside your body when you astral project what's actually happening?Are you really just EXTENDING your spirit away from your body instead of actually making your spirit leave your body?And if your not literally leaving your body when you astral project what leaves your body and travels to the afterlife once you die?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 03:03:21 by zorgblar » Logged
zorgblar
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 20:36:48 »



If you have time, go here ( http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html ) and scroll down to FRANK'S MODEL OF THE WIDER REALITY. It may answer some of your questions.

I went to the website you recommended and it just made me confused so sorry but it really didn't help that much.
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Old Dood
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 21:39:20 »

I was going to suggest Frank as well.

I wasn't sure if it was the 'correct thing' or not...

Frank's 'perspective' is very cool in my opinion.
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zorgblar
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 22:29:24 »

I was going to suggest Frank as well.

I wasn't sure if it was the 'correct thing' or not...

Frank's 'perspective' is very cool in my opinion.

Old Dood check your private messages i left you a question.
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 08:23:18 »

I agree about Franks perspective. It absolutely blew me away the first time I read it. I must have read it twenty times now and still I find something new every time that makes sense.
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Old Dood
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 11:35:02 »

Old Dood check your private messages i left you a question.

I have really nothing to add...
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Kraven Obscuria
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2008, 18:11:47 »

sorry this got posted 2x, please delete.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 18:13:24 by Kraven Obscuria » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2008, 18:12:13 »

If you don't literally travel outside your body when you astral project what's actually happening?Are you really just EXTENDING your spirit away from your body instead of actually making your spirit leave your body?And if your not literally leaving your body when you astral project what leaves your body and travels to the afterlife once you die?
One way to look at it is that everything in the phenomenal(manifested)universe is both in the mind of the One, and also a reflection of it. Say that the One is ever changeless and beyond the manifest world, therefore everything is a reflection of different aspects of the One. So perhaps you have a spirit, which is wearing the garment of a Soul(Astral Body), which is then wearing the Physical Body.  So it would appear each of these are separate "things", but are different aspects of the One, and hence containers for  'yourself/Spirit'.

So it is always easier to say "I left my body", but it can be viewed that you are simply attuning your consciousness to a different plane. With a 'plane' not being a physical place as Stookie pointed out, but another mode of being/consciousness.

So yes, you may feel vibrations throughout your body and feel like you are leaving it during an OBE/Astral Projection, but in essence you are tuning your consciousness to a different/higher mode of being.

Supposedly upon physical death, for a time you inhabit your "astral body" to experience a review of your last physical incarnation to learn how the choices you made affect your progression forward. Then the Astral body slumbers in an sort of dream state while discarding everything but the highest principles it has, and hopefully discards much of the lower egos/desires. After this slumber, your Astral Body is cast off to become an 'Astral Shell' which gradually dissolves, and only your immortal Spirit then slowly wakes up into the realm for which it is most suited, based on it's Karma, to then live or outlive any remaining desires until it yearns for another "earth" life to continue on the path to perfection.

This is just one view, but I hope it helps the question of do we actually leave our body, or travel inward/higher(in terms of frequency/vibration).
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 21:25:13 »

One way to look at it is that everything in the phenomenal(manifested)universe is both in the mind of the One, and also a reflection of it. Say that the One is ever changeless and beyond the manifest world, therefore everything is a reflection of different aspects of the One. So perhaps you have a spirit, which is wearing the garment of a Soul(Astral Body), which is then wearing the Physical Body.  So it would appear each of these are separate "things", but are different aspects of the One, and hence containers for  'yourself/Spirit'.

So it is always easier to say "I left my body", but it can be viewed that you are simply attuning your consciousness to a different plane. With a 'plane' not being a physical place as Stookie pointed out, but another mode of being/consciousness.

So yes, you may feel vibrations throughout your body and feel like you are leaving it during an OBE/Astral Projection, but in essence you are tuning your consciousness to a different/higher mode of being.

Supposedly upon physical death, for a time you inhabit your "astral body" to experience a review of your last physical incarnation to learn how the choices you made affect your progression forward. Then the Astral body slumbers in an sort of dream state while discarding everything but the highest principles it has, and hopefully discards much of the lower egos/desires. After this slumber, your Astral Body is cast off to become an 'Astral Shell' which gradually dissolves, and only your immortal Spirit then slowly wakes up into the realm for which it is most suited, based on it's Karma, to then live or outlive any remaining desires until it yearns for another "earth" life to continue on the path to perfection.

This is just one view, but I hope it helps the question of do we actually leave our body, or travel inward/higher(in terms of frequency/vibration).

You claim that during the time that your alive your spirit can't really leave your body but merely tunes into different planes of existence right?But the question comes up that why is that while your alive your spirit can only tune into other planes of existence but when you die your spirit really DOES leave your body and can travel around in other planes of existence? huh
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 22:18:32 by zorgblar » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2008, 00:53:58 »

You claim that during the time that your alive your spirit can't really leave your body but merely tunes into different planes of existence right?But the question comes up that why is that while your alive your spirit can only tune into other planes of existence but when you die your spirit really DOES leave your body and can travel around in other planes of existence? huh

Like I mentioned, I "believe" that each level of consciousness has it's own "ex: container:physical body/Astral body(Soul)mental body(Spirit)" in order to perceive the different levels of consciousness. These containers are an easier way to explain different rates of vibration.  As an example,  a sound can be measured with physical equipment, and thus appears to have a form(container) like a sound wave,  but this is just an easier, visual way to explain the particular rate of vibration of the sound wave in a way that is understandable.  So once the physical body dies, the attraction/animating principal that causes the physical body to remain intact would "leave" and thus begins the decomposition process of the corporeal container(physical body). So in a way, you are not leaving it(the physical body), it is leaving you, or that "container"(physical body) is no longer needed. So you would then inhabit the Astral body(container/faster rate of vibration) for a time, and when this is no longer needed, you would inhabit the vessel of Spirit.   

It could even be said that the physical body and astral body are both Maya, or an illusion, so there isn't any "leaving", if you are already in the mind of God where this grand saga is taking place, and there is no where to "go". Again who is to say what is "real". When we experience the physical it seems real, but when we dream, that seems real, or when we Astral Project this seems real, it all a matter of perception.

These are just my lowly, learned opinions, but does this make any more sense?
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zorgblar
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2008, 02:05:56 »

Like I mentioned, I "believe" that each level of consciousness has it's own "ex: container:physical body/Astral body(Soul)mental body(Spirit)" in order to perceive the different levels of consciousness. These containers are an easier way to explain different rates of vibration.  As an example,  a sound can be measured with physical equipment, and thus appears to have a form(container) like a sound wave,  but this is just an easier, visual way to explain the particular rate of vibration of the sound wave in a way that is understandable.  So once the physical body dies, the attraction/animating principal that causes the physical body to remain intact would "leave" and thus begins the decomposition process of the corporeal container(physical body). So in a way, you are not leaving it(the physical body), it is leaving you, or that "container"(physical body) is no longer needed. So you would then inhabit the Astral body(container/faster rate of vibration) for a time, and when this is no longer needed, you would inhabit the vessel of Spirit.   

It could even be said that the physical body and astral body are both Maya, or an illusion, so there isn't any "leaving", if you are already in the mind of God where this grand saga is taking place, and there is no where to "go". Again who is to say what is "real". When we experience the physical it seems real, but when we dream, that seems real, or when we Astral Project this seems real, it all a matter of perception.

These are just my lowly, learned opinions, but does this make any more sense?

I might not fully be understanding what your saying but what i think your saying is that basically when you die your spiritual essence transfers from body to body(or from container to container)until it reaches it's final body which is the spirit body right?So does this imply that your spiritual essence really DOES literally leave the body at death?And if so what is the difference between going from body to body while alive and from going from body to body at the point of death?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 02:07:39 by zorgblar » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2008, 02:39:40 »

"I might not fully be understanding what your saying but what i think your saying is that basically when you die your spiritual essence transfers from body to body(or from container to container)until it reaches it's final body which is the spirit body right?"

Right. wink

"So does this imply that your spiritual essence really DOES literally leave the body at death?And if so what is the difference between going from body to body while alive and from going from body to body at the point of death?"

Perhaps I am getting too technical and with my limited understanding I cannot explain it in a simpler way. But, to be less technical and not contradict myself.... in a way, Yes the spiritual essence does leave the body at death, since the difference is that the silver cord connecting the Astral body to the Physical body is severed. So the difference is that you cannot return to the physical body. At this point there would still remain a cord connecting the Astral body to the Spirit(mental)body for a time...
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zorgblar
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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2008, 02:52:36 »

"I might not fully be understanding what your saying but what i think your saying is that basically when you die your spiritual essence transfers from body to body(or from container to container)until it reaches it's final body which is the spirit body right?"

Right. wink

"So does this imply that your spiritual essence really DOES literally leave the body at death?And if so what is the difference between going from body to body while alive and from going from body to body at the point of death?"

Perhaps I am getting too technical and with my limited understanding I cannot explain it in a simpler way. But, to be less technical and not contradict myself.... in a way, Yes the spiritual essence does leave the body at death, since the difference is that the silver cord connecting the Astral body to the Physical body is severed. So the difference is that you cannot return to the physical body. At this point there would still remain a cord connecting the Astral body to the Spirit(mental)body for a time...

Thanks that cleared up alot of the confusion up. smiley
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 03:09:06 by zorgblar » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2008, 18:47:40 »

The link (found below) is great.  I've always enjoyed reading Frank's thoughts.  I tend not to believe everything that anyone has to say, but I think a lot of what Frank says is spot on.  In essence, he's continuing what Monroe started but, I think, looking at things much more objectively which is fantastic.  I need to begin meditating more often.  I've been so caught up with other things in life which are, by all means, important (education, work, etc.) but I don't want to lose myself in the temporal world.  Great link though.  Any more like it?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make things complicated. I think the whole theory hinges on the idea that EVERYTHING is consciousness. The entire physical world and everything around you, your body, thoughts, feelings, desires - is consciousness. The experience of separation, that you are independent of the world you live in, is held only in perception. In this sense, there is no "out there". You don't travel, but just change the focus of your awareness somewhere else in the spectrum of consciousness. The physical area of consciousness is described as having a "slow vibration", making us percieve the world as separate. The further "inward" you go, the faster the "vibration" (vibration might be the wrong word), the less physical and separate it is. Eventually, there is no separation between you and anything else, the stereotypical "becoming one with the universe".

Don't take my word for it, it's all just descriptions of something indescribable. Stay skeptical. There is no agreeable science when it comes to astral projection. You just have to follow your gut.

If you have time, go here ( http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html ) and scroll down to FRANK'S MODEL OF THE WIDER REALITY. It may answer some of your questions.
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 11:06:22 »

Death is such an intellectual question mark. There's no answers one can find about death during life, regardless of how many books you've read. At best all reading will do is satisfy, temporarily, a hunger for understanding. Dull down the fear of dying. All we can really do is tackle different theories until the experience itself. Not a NDE, permanent physical death.

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