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David Warner
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« on: March 14, 2006, 06:38:53 »

Ap Friends,

Every time that I project, I seem to be always in a hurry, a rush to asorb everything around me before I get pulled back. Is it me or would this be the same for everyone too?

I'd love to have a projection where I could just relax, breath, smell the roses, sit on a park bench, watching everything around me unfold. Is this too much to ask?

It seems sometimes in my projections, the experience will go on for a long time and I request myself and when I finally do wake - I could kick myself.

Tvos
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kiwibonga
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2006, 06:55:57 »

Maybe your fear of being pulled back is what is causing you to be pulled back in the first place -- have you ever tried to ignore or "forget" about the "time limit?"

Have you tried "gathering energy" that would enable you to stay out longer?

Most authors seem to suggest that your first OBEs will be short and will progressively become longer as you have them, kind of like if an imaginary muscle was being slowly built up over time.

Perhaps you could search or ask for an astral "exercise machine" that will help you strengthen this "muscle" faster Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2006, 06:55:57 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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David Warner
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2006, 07:01:46 »

Kiwibonga,

I appreciate your input - yes, energy and meditation is what I need to practice and will develop me further. I've been out thousands of times and its always different. Sometimes, I can be out for seconds to minutes. The longest time I ever hit was 30mins (back in the day).

I've been reciting with affirmations of my goals when I project next, but also seems when I am out, I get side tracked and forget...:)

I guess my question for those people that meditate and do energy work, what is the best time - the morning, afternoon, before sleep?

Tvos
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2006, 07:07:05 »

I haven't projected so i wouldn't know for sure but i think basically this holds true...

just relax... forget any goals to start with then once your ready do what you want to do.

chill :hippy1:
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kiwibonga
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2006, 07:26:25 »

About times of day, there's something I noticed about my ability to visualize and fall asleep.

I think for most people, there's a cycle that repeats where every 3 hours you get a time window where it will be much easier to fall asleep compared to other times of the day. A sure sign that you are entering this cycle is that you start to feel a bit sleepy -- if you miss the window and try to go to sleep, it could take hours before you get in the right "cycle" again.

I hate to speculate all the time, but perhaps there is a similar cycle when out of body, and as soon as you feel called back, if you manage to resist it for a while, the cycle will pass and you will be able to stay out another 20-odd minutes without having to worry about it. The call-back could also be caused by physical "phase changes" -- i.e. transitions between different sleep states in the brain.

I'm curious about the "call back" phenomenon... As you know, when people fall asleep they usually unconsciously get out of their body -- how long do they stay out and if it's several hours long, do they sporadically get called back throughout their sleep?

I've never seen accounts of APers meeting sleeping people where the sleeping person would get called back, it's always the person having a conscious OBE that gets called back first!
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2006, 07:26:25 »



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Stookie
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2006, 17:09:11 »

I've had a few peaceful phasing moments from meditation, but in a normal projection I feel, in this order:

Surprised
Exited
Rushed
Disappointed (It's already over!)

Quote
I guess my question for those people that meditate and do energy work, what is the best time - the morning, afternoon, before sleep?


I'm still trying to figure out the magic pattern, but as of now I like to do a 30 minute meditation immediately when I wake up, and another 45 minutes about 2 hours after dinner. But that's so I can fit it in my schedule. I have wonderful meditations nearly every Saturday and Sunday around 10 or 11 AM. That's my prime spot.
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David Warner
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2006, 18:26:40 »

Stookie,

I guess if I was to give a order of the oobe event, it would be like this:

1. Cool, I'm in the hypnogogic/trance state
2. Confirm and bring fourth the vibrations
3. Roll around like a log, or spinning incredibly fast by crunching myself    
    into a little ball and then exit the body.
4. Re-adjust and stabilize my astral eye-sight
5. Absorb everything with excitement
7. Keep moving and don't stop. Feel hurried!
8. Carry out goal or side tracked by an female encounter..:)
9. Try to hang onto prolonging consciousness by looking at hands, objects
10. Astral eye sights becomes too heavy to keep open. Feels as if I am
in a starring contest and my astral eyes feel dry and hard to keep open
11. Return to body, refreshed, happy but also wanting more.


In step 10, do  you sense and feel the same? As for the meditation and energy work, I know there's many excellent authors out there, just need to discipline myself.

Tvos
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Stookie
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2006, 20:00:42 »

I definitely feel good and refreshed, and very "buzzy", like after a lot of energy work. I would love to have more, but am always happy to get whatever I can. If it's during the night, it can be hard to get to sleep. It doesn't happen very often though, and when it does, it's short, so it's easy to get over-excited and rushed to do something, anything at all, before I return. However, lately I haven't been trying to do the traditional OBE as much as reaching states through meditation.

When I do OBE, I get to about step 5 on your list, but carrying out a goal is still out of my realm. I'm still trying though. This month marks my first full year of daily practice.

Quote
As for the meditation and energy work, I know there's many excellent authors out there, just need to discipline myself.


I've seen your data - you have discipline. Meditation should be easy for you.  tongue
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2006, 21:05:20 »

TVOS wrote:  
Quote
I guess my question for those people that meditate and do energy work, what is the best time - the morning, afternoon, before sleep?

I do energy work during the day at random times, (mostly NEW in the early afternoon).  I try to stay lucid at night as I go to sleep just to get my mind used to try to maintain lucidity, and then I actually do my OBE practice in the very early AM.  I naturally get up at 4:30 (as late as 6:00 AM) And then do a little energy work (very little) and then go to noticing.  From there it will result in a lucid dream (1 or 2 a week), a non-lucid 'mystical dream' ( once a week +_), an OBE (every two weeks) or just sleep most mornnings.  Last week I had my first phasing (or prephasing) experience.  Copacetic!    :hippy1:
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Leilah
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2006, 22:37:25 »

Quote from: Stookie
This month marks my first full year of daily practice.


For the past two months I've been telling myself "Okay. From now on I'm going to practice everyday!" and...I don't.  angry I definitely could use some more self-discipline.

Anyway, I was just wondering how your daily practice has improved/changed things since you've started? And in what ways?
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David Warner
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2006, 05:44:12 »

Major Tom,

I've used the spinning technique, looking at the hands, or just holding onto a tree to prevent from being pulled back and it does work. Not all the time, but effective.

Awhile back while I was in the process of returning back to the body. My astral was in a upright sitting position spinning around and the physical, was resting on its back. It felt as if my astral was spinning around in circles tunneling downward but couldn't. The astral being in the upright position couldn't align and kept spinning around continuously.

I thought this was a interesting effect and made me realize that if we can keep this thought active through the experience, then the chances for longer projection time can be prolonged.

Tvos
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kiwibonga
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2006, 10:40:46 »

I just had an idea...

Time "doesn't exist" in the astral, in other words, you let time pass by due to human perception, much like how sometimes you'll find you get stuck in objects or have trouble flying...

Have you tried to "stop time"? i.e. this would consist in changing your perception of time so that you perceive everything as extremely slow, hence if the call back is a physical thing, you would get a lot more out of body time.

About that, though... Since you want to be able to do things at "normal pace" while everything around you is slower... And vibrations are a factor of time... You might either end up in lower vibratory planes, or have to raise your vibration frequency so you can move faster in the same plane... Kind of like if you were "out of phase" with the plane you are in...

We need more scientific info about this stuff :p
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2006, 14:15:15 »

Kiwibonga dude made some good points here. We have many underlying circadian processes that shape our consciousness in the background. Component cycles are best tracked by spectral analysis of the low, mid and high alpha range of the EEG, but luckily also superimpose into a single well observable basic rest-activity cyclicity (BRAC) in which a 90-minute period of arousal alternates with a 20-minute period of rest. When paying attention to our nasal cycles we partly observe BRAC. Meditation is said to be best when both nostrils are open and I think projection is easier when the left one is dilatating.

I also observed an interesting thing while prolonging dream states by forced separations (up to 15-20). Since I remained close to the bed, these projections were kept in real time. After about 1 hour I usually ran out of something that is needed to see properly because my vision kept turning into grey. A general instability also set in and I became very slow and heavy. For some reason I felt very tired and just wanted to sleep. I was tempted to give up but much to my surprise after about 10-20 minutes of struggle my dreaming power renewed.

Tiredness was due to the prolonged cortical activation which makes REM sleep even more tiresome than waking and I'm pretty sure that increased stability and brightness were due to a renewed melatonin and DMT production. According to Callaway DMT is solely responsible for the visual power of our dreams. Even if it is not DMT there should be a finite potencial in the brain needed to visualize brightness. I know this because looking into a source of bright light, the dream sun for example, easily wakes me up. Also many of us familiar with the situation of groping around in darkness right after separation which I think happens when REM sleep switched on before enough DMT or whatever has been synthesized.

As for the problem of rushing all over through the astral, I know what you mean TVOS. I agree that this bonking every girl in town before the sun rises attitude is on the table but having had a couple of more peaceful exploration I suspect the cause to be not purely psychological. Probably it's related as well to different states of a consciousness, I mean states that are bounded to real time brain functions as opposed to "deep astral" that might be independent of the brain.

Especially the brain boundes states seem to be vulnerable to the quality and continuity of the sensory stream. If one pushes through a border symbol that separates different bubbles of perception, a windows for example, sort of a sensory resistance is encountered: loss of visual coherence and inability to move or switch viewpont. Apparently the visual system needs some time to interpret create a new sceneries. Similarly, if you fix your gaze on something, the state stabilizing visual feedback suffers a lot and you could easily fade back into your body. So I think people intuitively know that rusing around is a better option.

Although the more slow paced exploration is definitely possible could be also that restlessness is an inherent property of the non-physical state of being. In this case we're quite lucky here in the physical with all these slow paced molecular reactions as to having a plenty of time for introspection and just sitting in the garden looking out of our head. Probably this is the purpose of having a physical life at the first place, to use slow things, eat, defecate, using emotions and to see how our body deteriorates with time. This challenge us to look for something beyond and to integrate our self.
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Sepultura123
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2006, 02:16:32 »

I heard some tales of dream that some people haved dream that looked like days... And someone said it lasted a lifetime. At his awakening , he didnt even think about real life....

I dont know if its true but these things are freaky , you know I woulndt to do a dream of a week.

But if it can happen in dream maybe in AP too.

On the opposite surely not because the physical body get really tired of going in the astral.
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 16:20:31 »

Tvos

I know what you mean about rushing around.  From the very earliest days of my projections I realised that I needed to keep the LD/OBE scenery changing to prolong the experience.  This is done by simply walking around and observing, or more commonly by flying and observing.  

Focussing too long on a static visual scene can cause the experience to fade and end.

For me the experience usually ends when my vision fades and I feel myself back in bed again.  This can be reversed by acting quickly.  The action required is to absolutely NOT think of yourself lying in bed and to focus forwards on your LD/OBE environment.  I have many times been in the "faded vison" state and rescued the sutuation by focussing my attention forwards.  The visual imagery returns slowly at first and then suddenly I am back in the scene which moments earlier had faded away.

If I do find myself back in bed all is certainly not lost, I simply go through an exit procedure and get "out" again.  Typically I would go through this process half a dozen times of a morning, ie I would have half a dozen exits before the physical trance state is broken.

This brings us to the question: "How do we ensure that the physical trance state is not broken?" Well the answer is simple:  Don't move and definitely don't engage in any "critical" mental activity (ie don't question anything, don't try to reason or figure things out).  Critical reasoning breaks the physical trance condition as surely as a pin pops a balloon.  Curiously this rule does not apply once the LD/OBE is established!  Once established, critical reasoning can actually help to stabilise and prolong an LD/OBE.  But certainly not whilst lying in bed in the trance state.

Having broken the physical trance condition however, all is still not lost!  It is still possible to re-enter the trance state, by going through a relaxation procedure again, but I have only occasionally done this. wink
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David Warner
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2006, 01:15:53 »

Catmeow,

I agree with you on what you said about going back into the trance state and keep the projections coming. The other late afternoon (Sunday) I decided to take a nap, had some difficulty with that ackward physical icky feeling. But after the first projection then being pulled back, I awakened but immediately drifted off into another projection and false awakening.

It will take some trial & error on control and each time will be different. But I think the more one practices energy work, meditating and fighting to stay out longer it will eventually prevail.

Tvos
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Beth
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2006, 03:30:51 »

Tvos,

I don't think I can remember one where I was feeling rushed at all, but I have had quite a few where I became aware that I was returning to my body and I didn't want to!! grin

~Beth
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David Warner
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2006, 06:37:50 »

Beth,

Guess you are one of the lucky one's not feeling like your under a time restraint. We also know how it feels not wanting to be pulled back too!

I do think time, energy, devotion with trial and error over time will be the best factor to drive and remain out longer.

Keep up the good work Beth!

Tvos
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kiwibonga
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2006, 08:55:06 »

Hi

I wanted to come back to this thread to discuss what happened to me with my two experiences.

The experiences were not like anything I've read in the sense that rather than having just one separation and going back, whenever I got called back to my body, I would instantly be able to leave again.

My second experience was particularly vivid and long, I don't know how much of the two hours of sleep it did take up, but I did experience over 15 "call backs" followed by separation.

What's your opinion on this?
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catmeow
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2006, 14:40:27 »

Hi kiwibonga

What you describe is normal for me - see my post a few posts back.  I commonly get "called back" only to find I can immediately re-exit.  It would be normal for me to do this several times before the spell is broken!  smiley
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David Warner
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2006, 02:43:51 »

kiwibonga,

It definitely sounds like your making a good contact in the RTZ - astral. I've had zillions of experiences where I am out for a few seconds/minutes return back to the body and project over and over again. Sometimes, I question if I'm ever really sleeping.

Keep up the good work!

Tvos
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