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Author Topic: Sam Parnia on the Aware study  (Read 30733 times)
Lionheart
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2013, 05:50:39 »

Who is this "everyone", lol?  huh   All the famous authors and others I know that AP have never come to the conclusion "it's all in your mind".

 I don't state my own experiences here, because #1 They occur so frequently, that there wouldn't be any more room on this Forum for yours any other member's comments anymore, lol and #2. I don't want you to have MY experience, I want you to have your OWN.
 
 If everyone here was to write down every experience they have, LD/AP (whatever you want to call it), then there would be many people here trying to look for these things while they are in the Non Physical Realm/Reality or even duplicate them. Since this is a personal journey, why would others need to see what you did or experience what you do?

 The funny thing here is that you have had a successful NPR event and you still are questioning it, lol. I guess you need to do some more experimenting before you come to your own rational conclusion.

 Many people come here to this Forum to learn this practice. Many of them have been trying for months, some years and yet they still believe and have the will to keep trying. You should count your blessings!   wink
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 06:20:37 by Lionheart » Logged
Ofen
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2013, 10:03:00 »

"All the famous Autors..habe never come to the conclusion 'its all in your mind"

As i said already, no one would read books about this phenomenon if the Autor says its
All in your mind. This book would be boring and no one would buy it.
With OBE there is a market of esotheric freaks who needs new stuff and magical stories.
Monroe knew how to sell and he made a business of this phenomenon. He is like Uri Geller.

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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2013, 10:03:00 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Volgerle
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2013, 11:48:50 »

ps: I am not Randi, I am Ofen
... but are you related in any way? grin

Seriously, it is a tedious discussion we had here before with other posters of the usual Randi disciple kind. You show what most superstitious skeptics show and that is cognitive dissonance. Here's a good article:

"Perpetual Denial of Evidence and Cognitive Dissonance"
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/evidence.php

Proof of your cognitive dissonance is that you did not even bother to read my link, true? Here it is again, and it is just a collection from a few websites only:

http://da-lai.lima-city.de/OBE/index.html

There you also find explanation for what you and everyone of us experiences and what is called "reality fluctuation". Which is why on the "astral plane" not everything is as in the physical because your thoughts and other "higher" realities intermingle with data you receive from the physical. Still you can get verifications when you FOCUS on the data from the physical and ignore or accept other "reality fluctuations". It is naive to expect everything to be like in the physical because you are not "entirely" in the physical then. It's because in your "astral body" you get data from different layers/planes of reality (realities!), including your own thought forms, therefore you have to kind of "sort it out" for yourself - Simple as that!

So you must please rather ask yourself:

Why didn't I focus on verifiable data and check on it afterwards instead of the (even instantaneously obvious) "mistakes".

Instead you only focus on the thought forms / reality fluctuations in order to save your world-view to explain everything away. So next time: try again and please concentrate on data that you can possibly verify and do not expect to be everything like in the phycial or do not let yourself be distracted by fluctuations. These happen (not necessarily but they do).

I recommend you should also revise your view of reality and perception of reality which is a very backward reductionist one. You should also not succumb to the brainwash (in the media and mainstream science) that we undergo from materialist philosophies and pseudo-skepticism.

Here's a good book to not fall into the trap of pseudo-skepticism which is just another religion:

Robert McLuhan - "RANDI'S PRIZE: What sceptics say about the paranormal, why they are wrong and why it matters""
http://www.amazon.com/RANDIS-PRIZE-sceptics-paranormal-matters/dp/1848764944/

I highly recommend it.  smiley

Regarding NDEs there is one example of Susan Blackmore, another "skeptic", who manages even to explain away an NDE where the patient flew through the ceiling out of the clinic and saw a tennis shoe on the roof of the hospital, which was then later found by one of the staff indeed. She does not really explain it away but finds a "way out" by sidetracking and beating about the bush until her readers actually have forgotten the original story (which is by no way debunked) after all. The same here with you.

Moreover, Remote Viewing has been proven in the laboratory (e.g. by the Pear Labs) by scientists (!) over and over again beyond doubt. The statistics is undeniable. It IS possible go get verifiable data. Don't fall into the pseudo-skeptic trap or into the traps of any materialist superstition.

And to get on-topic again, one last comment (and then I'm out of here because it makes no sense discussing skeptic superstition over and over again...) on the Parnia study:

It has been said before here or elsewhere that if not enough 'clear' verifications (or none!) result it does not (dis)prove anything. Reading a number sign in a surgery would be the last thing you think of when you undergo an emergency / cardiac arrest / NDE etc. So again, it's all about a skeptic self-delusion, nothing else (which your "brothers in the faith" from the Randi.org-Forum seemingly suffer from).



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« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 11:51:17 by Volgerle » Logged

desert-rat
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2013, 15:50:51 »

Some think that we , our consciousness , is just left over energy on the serfice of a black hole .  Our reality is just an illusion , so who knows .
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2013, 01:39:29 »

"All the famous Autors..habe never come to the conclusion 'its all in your mind"

As i said already, no one would read books about this phenomenon if the Autor says its
All in your mind. This book would be boring and no one would buy it.
With OBE there is a market of esotheric freaks who needs new stuff and magical stories.
Monroe knew how to sell and he made a business of this phenomenon. He is like Uri Geller.


I know at least one author (Anthony Peake) that says it's all in your mind- all of it- and his book is not boring, and it has sold well, IMO.  I, an 'esoteric freak' highly recommend it.  In fact, you should buy it, read it, and get back to me about it.
So many opinions.....
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2013, 01:39:29 »



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Lionheart
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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2013, 04:48:44 »

So many opinions.....
Yes, but in the end, the only opinion that really matters, is the one you prove to yourself to be true!   wink
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Ofen
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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2013, 23:45:53 »

How is this book from Anthony peake called which u have recommended? I want to read t.
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« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2013, 00:41:03 »

I see a number of books written by Anthony Peake listed on Amazon . One is on a.p. ,the others I see are all med. phy. books .

http://www.amazon.com/The-Out---Body-Experience-History-ebook/dp/B00FIMWB34/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1383870802&sr=8-10&keywords=anthony+peake

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=anthony%20peake&sprefix=anthony+pea%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aanthony%20peake
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« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2013, 02:39:27 »

http://www.amazon.com/The-Out---Body-Experience-History-ebook/dp/B00FIMWB34/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1383870802&sr=8-10&keywords=anthony+peake
That's the one.
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popozeto
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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2013, 05:06:04 »

 grin Thanks for that reference on James Randi pretty interesting guy, on a side note I was watching how he exposed James Hydrick and now years later how he is trying to get out of a mental hospital. I remember how he fooled a whole country and was on the spotlight for a short time. So sad how society failed him and how he out smarted everyone.
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2013, 14:01:42 »

Ofen, You are like a ray of golden sunshine after a long and hard winter. Finally someone has come to spread the light on us ignorant folks who just don't know any better.

Better yet, you are to us what the Russian Army was when they were driving the Nazi's back west. Every bomb or shell that exploded just a single kilometer closer to the concentration camps gave those poor souls the ability to hope once again since they knew their liberation was soon at hand.

For no one here knew that their was another possible explanation: It's all in our heads. Your theory that if if was trur, then the people who access to all this information would have some huge advantage over those that don't...What are you talking about? huh

Please don't lose all your credibility by saying, "Well if you can project, than you can get the Lotto Numbers." Or maybe you were referring to those of us who can throw soccer size balls of flames at our enemies.

The only advantage we have over anyone us our previous self. I am not in the business of calling people liars unless I am speaking to one. It's a shame that you may have had a few incredible dreams and stopped short at thinking , "Wow. I'm a smart guy and I have finally had an OOBE. Now can I can report back that it is all in our heads and we can get back to the important stuff, like who is gonna win this years VMA's Award.

Ofen, Anybody can do this and with time, they will eventually prove it real to themselves if they maintain an open mind.

Your coca-cola story where you saw your brother drink a coke one time explains exactly how you would of had a dream in which you saw he had more cokes in the exact same place in his fridge where you saw them at in your dreams. That could have been a minor validation in our book but not the jaw dropping type that many of us have had on more than one occasion.

But hopefully this report will just bring us back to your reality where we are all equal until we are not.
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Ofen
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2013, 23:43:25 »

ok, you have a better story than mine? I know u can only prove to yourselve. I am curious what it could be, I want to listen about your experience. And dont cite any spiritual autors, share with me your own experience.

If this story is good, I will tell you another story, an self-experiment I did for myselfe two times on OBE. Since then I know the power of your mind and its limitation. Since these experiments I know it is all in your mind.
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2013, 00:10:58 »

ok, you have a better story than mine? I know u can only prove to yourselve. I am curious what it could be, I want to listen about your experience. And dont cite any spiritual autors, share with me your own experience.

If this story is good, I will tell you another story, an self-experiment I did for myselfe two times on OBE. Since then I know the power of your mind and its limitation. Since these experiments I know it is all in your mind.

I generally consider it an exercise in stupidity to try and prove anything to a skeptic but there may be a few here who may want to hear the story.

In January of 2006, I was having a normal dream. I don't remember any specifics but I'm sure that I was saving the world or something like that. To make a long story short, I was told by someone in the dream to call my sister in the morning and tell her that the bag was behind their deep freeze.

We hadn't talked in a few months and I had already lost her number. No problem there since that one of the many great things that moms are good out.

I called her first thing since she lived in Maine and I was calling from Texas which meant that I was already an hour late. I could tell she was frantic and when I asked her why, she told me that she was missing the weekend sales from a benefit they had for my nephews school's fundraiser. It was almost two-thousand smackers. I told her to calm down because I knew exactly where it was.

She was a little annoyed at having to triple look behind the freezer but low-and-behold, it was right where the guy in my "dream" said it would be.

Using your logic of reducing skills, I could dismiss this all as coming from my mind because I already knew I has a sister and a school age nephew. I'll admit hat I had never visited them in Maine but common sense tells me that they have a freezer to keep their perishables from spoiling.

Good point OFEN, I am already convinced. rolleyes
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 03:11:06 by Astralzombie » Logged

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Ofen
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2013, 14:00:43 »

Ok that's the strangest story I ever heard, I respect your perception that there could be something more. But it was no OBE, sounds like remote viewing? Sometimes I hear also voices before OBE but they say things that doesn't make sense.


Now I tell you about my experiment: I wanted to know how you can taste food in OBE and if its like in reality. So my first experiment was about to buy an Mc Chicken from Mc Donalds and I ate a half of the Mc Chicken before I went to bed and the another half I wanted to eat in the morning.

 I started my OBE, fly to the Mc Chicken which was near to my bed. I opened the package and there I saw a full Mc Chicken. I ate only a half of it and it tasted a little bit dry but however there was the typical Mc Chicken taste so I was surprised how real it was. On the next morning I forgot that I ate the one half the night before. I went to the package, opened it and expected a full Mc Chicken. But there was only a half, so I thought first I ate it in OBE. I was scared, I asked everyone in my home if they ate a halfe from my mc chicken ( which was hidden on a cabinet) but of course they didnt.  A few weeks later I realized, that I ate a half of the Mc Chicken before I went to bed and i just forgot it.

So this experiment showed me, that in OBE you can have almost the same taste of a certain food you know like the taste in reality. But what about food you never eat before? What taste would it have in OBE?
I buyed pralinen I never ate before and I had no Idea how they could taste by looking at them. I put three of them on my cablinet and then I ate them in OBE. All three pralinen tasted like nothing. It was strange, It was like eating a cardboard.
This experiment showed me, that it must be all in your mind. Your mind cannot create a new taste, because it dont know how these things could taste. It has no memory about it. So your OBE must connect with your mind, since this I believe 100 % it is all in your mind.



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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2013, 18:26:53 »

So Ofen, what you are saying is, if you didn't have an OBE, then no one else could be having OBEs.  Is this right?
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Ofen
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« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2013, 19:09:58 »

I want to say that I prooved for myself and other people should also try to proove to theirselve and not just read books about how real OBEs are. The story about the bag behind the fridge might be very scary and nice to read but you should build your beliefe if OBEs can be real or not primary about your own experience in OBE.
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« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2013, 20:40:28 »

But most of us have had experiences in which validations happened, and others in which nothing but self-created things happened.  But I don't see how that proves anything.  It's like saying, go outside, look, is there a school bus?  Some days yes, some days no.  Does that mean that because on Tuesday I didn't see a school bus, it means that there are no school buses?  Should I ignore (in my own perception) the times I saw the school bus?
I can safely said that at least three (or four) times in my life, I went out and saw what was happening, which was later validated by others. 
I obviously can't prove it to you (and I don't want to, I know what I experienced was part of consensus 'objective' reality) but I know at least in those instances, that undoubtedly the experience was verifiably real.
What I don't understand is why you say things that you can't know- what others' experiences and opinions are like.
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« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2013, 20:44:57 »

I want to say that I prooved for myself and other people should also try to proove to theirselve and not just read books about how real OBEs are. The story about the bag behind the fridge might be very scary and nice to read but you should build your beliefe if OBEs can be real or not primary about your own experience in OBE.
  But he said he had an experience in which he believed- a validation.  Are you saying that because you proved you only hallucinated his experience must have been a hallucination too?
Here is a thread in which people talk about their own experiences (mine is in there, possibly in the beginning).  Are you saying that the data doesn't count because it doesn't fit your worldview?
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html
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Ofen
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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2013, 01:58:33 »

I dont want to change my whole worldview just on stories some people experienced. If I would experience such unbelievable stories on my own, I would gonna go crazy.  It would destroy my complete worldview from one day to another.

 I made a lot of experiments in OBE at the beginning to get to know this phenomenon better. Until now I had NEVER experienced something that would change my normal worldview. On Obe I looked at cards to see if I can read them, I remebered things, I interacted with food, Objects, with my cat, talked to my family members to see if they can remeber my visit, read books in OBE. There was nothing unusual or paranormal (Just the coke story maybe but thats it).
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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2013, 10:48:22 »

Ofen, I appreciate you trying to clear things up for me but my experience was an OOBE. I just didn't go into greater detail with a skeptic because I have a 100% accuracy rate of guessing their reply will be yeah..but.

By the way, did you notice that you tried  to explain it away by saying it might have been another phenomenon (RV), which can be just another form of an OOBE.

I'm sorry to hear that your first grade science experiment with chicken mcnuggets was enough to completely change your mind about the OOBE.

I'm not trying to purposely be rude but I find it shame that you have given up so easily.

Just so you know, 99.9% of all validations happen unexpectedly. Otherwise, someone would have sued James Randi a long time ago for not paying up the million bucks that he never had any intention on wagering in the first place.

If you really do have OOBE, I suggest you give up on the silly experiments so the real mind blowing stuff can begin. Never mind, I just read where you're scared of having to change your worldview so you're better off not having OOBE. smiley

No one here wants you to change your worldview based off of our experiences. That would just make you a fool. We want you to have your own. smiley
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« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2013, 13:07:14 »

You say 99.9% of all validations happen unexpectedly, I ask me really why! why u cannot control it if its real possible to get new information in OBE. You would have such a big advantage.

I will be skeptic, but you are right. I will try again some experiments! OBE is a big secret and I do not really know how this another world really works. For example why you can hear music from a orchestra you never heard before and it sounds good? the mind has such great power!






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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2013, 15:18:54 »

I dont want to change my whole worldview just on stories some people experienced. If I would experience such unbelievable stories on my own, I would gonna go crazy.  It would destroy my complete worldview from one day to another.

 I made a lot of experiments in OBE at the beginning to get to know this phenomenon better. Until now I had NEVER experienced something that would change my normal worldview. On Obe I looked at cards to see if I can read them, I remembered things, I interacted with food, Objects, with my cat, talked to my family members to see if they can remember my visit, read books in OBE. There was nothing unusual or paranormal (Just the coke story maybe but thats it).
But I think this is what you're not getting- No one is asking you to change your worldview.  We are simply saying to not deny or disparage our experiences because they don't fit in yours.  In effect, what you're saying is- since your experiences, verified or not, were not replicated by my experiences, you are lying or deluded.
You don't have to believe anything-just don't declare that our experiences are not valid.
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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2013, 19:19:19 »

Ofen, I like your conviction to your experiences. They are incredibly limited though. A grain of sand on a beach sort of limited.
I'd suggest a more scientific approach, be skeptical by all means, you'd make a perfect student if the denial was left out.
No one can convince you and all the stories are just that. You'd not make anything up too with this mindset.
You're travels in the RTZ are a beginners level experience. Let's see how you'd react if you simply "KNEW" an event was going to happen. A dream or whatever label you wish to call the experience, you are there, seeing and feeling the emotions of many people who knew their end is about to happen. Then the event occurs, you witness eveything and wake up a tad emotional (massive understatement).
A week later in our real time you watch the news and it hits you in the face. Every little detail you were involved in exactly as previously seen (second time emotional upset).
I can guess this sort of validation would impact your delusion in one go. Now imagine having this occur for over thirty years, it's a validation to me.
Are you up for the challenge to learn what you can achieve?
You may not get to the previously mentioned experiences for some time if ever. It will take you away from this limited real world copy you've only experienced so far.
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« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2013, 19:52:13 »

 I have one for you Ofen!  smiley

 Two years ago MJ and I were to have a store in our local Mall. We paid the contract for the store and were set to open it in 30 days. I did a Phase session and saw that I was in the Mall, but working at a Kiosk, not a store and that I was selling 2 completely different products, that we had never sold before. Actually they were 2 products that I didn't know anything about. We had our own inventory ready to go as it was and had no need for these other 2 things.

 Trusting my vision, I searched everywhere and set up a line of distribution with the needed companies. I told MJ of my vision. She didn't want to hear any of that talk. A store gave her an area to paint and sculpt her beautiful Dragons. It gave us a bathroom, a sink, a door, etc. In the past we had sold on Kiosks, but for the previous 4 years we had a temporary store location. I finally talked MJ into ordering a "small" amount" of these two new things, one being a Salt Lamp, the other a Glass Blown Jellyfish. I upped the order though, unbeknownst to her.

 Two days before we were set to go in the Mall, MJ phoned them for our key. About 5 minutes later we received a call saying they had made a terrible mistake. Our store was in Michigan, not Minnesota. Michigan is a looooooooooooong way away from Minnesota. This hit MJ like a knife in the heart. She had spent the last month and half sculpting Dragons and preparing for our store. The only option the Mall office had was to give us a Kiosk and so my Astral vision came true.

 That year we sold Salt Lamps on one side and Glass Jellyfish on the other. Had I not of seen it in my vision we would have taken a major financial loss. We can't sell her Dragons on a Kiosk. There is no where for her to sculpt or paint them there. A Kiosk is a small booth in the aisle of a Mall that is approximately 7 ft wide by 10 ft long. Our store was to be about 60 square feet.
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« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2013, 12:27:58 »

By the way here are the results of aware study:

http://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan/ViewAbstract.aspx?sKey=98ecd07e-214a-4bc4-9e2a-3e16692fdfb7&cKey=d6b5998d-9962-42c8-b184-a57d57ef8353&mKey={951E351E-429C-4B2E-84D0-8DA73B00DE45}



"Placement of images corresponded with only 33% of all CA locations. " What that mean? Does it mean, that only 33% of all CA locations had placed images?

If I understand correctly, there are 16 of 2060 cardiac arrest who had a real NDE. And there is ONE of 2060 who accurately described details corresponding with a verifiable period of at least 3-5 minutes of CA. But in his room they had not placed images. So all in all no one saw these Images.



« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 12:37:46 by Ofen » Logged
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