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Author Topic: Sorting energy from matter?  (Read 4137 times)
Kristen
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« on: May 05, 2002, 22:04:12 »

Hi Tom -

Um.... huh?  I don't get what you're asking.

Why must your awareness be "in" some energy?  I * think* that it is possible to be sensorily aware of movement of energy without having one's consciousness be PART of it or riding along with that energetic action.  Our consciousness is connected to "volition" like our intent is connected to our  hand, and our hand  is connected to a light switch when we flip it on or off - thus we can instigate action/activation of energy with will(volition).  Think of the simple physics experiment wherein it is demonstrated with pennies that energy is conducted through matter).  We can see the action, but our consciousness is not imbedded in the action.  In a like manner, I don't think our consicousness has to have a one-to-one correspondant relationship (reductionism) - or be "contained within" or conceptualized as some sort of imbedded "motive force" or "rider" for energy to be activated and/or for us to be aware of it sensorily.  In other words, consciousness does not have to be piggy-backed onto, or contained within energy for energy  to be activated by us, and for us to "feel" or sense it/ be aware of the action of that energy in some manner... just as it is not necessary for us to be consciously aware of an infinitude of biological/neurological processes for us to breathe.

Perhaps consciousness is like an interactive conduit... a good metaphor might be a cell wall with a certain fixed permeability - only the right chemical agents are osmosed.  (I'm now wondering about Castanada's experience in the "honeycomb."

Perhaps succeeding in astral projection  is not about being a "rider" in a strict sense... not about occupying energy...  perhaps it is about consciousness  being a form of energy and therefore emenable to that volitional/osmotic switch  - or however one might conceptualize that  relationship between consciousness and will/volition --   BUT... I also think that going through confabulations as to theoretical relationships/mechanism  might be a hinderance to the actual doing...

Just will it. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  

Kristen


 
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Frank
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2002, 07:32:06 »

quote:
Originally posted by Tom:
When I do exercises with energy, I can feel energy and have been for some time. My awareness must at least partially be in the energy. When sending energy outside of my body, I feel the energy flowing out. It does not feel like my awareness goes along. Going out of body does not involve the physical body. I'm leaving that behind (though not empty). In order to succeed with astral projection do I need to try to occupy energy withouot that energy having to occupy matter such as my body? If so, how do I begin to pull energy away from matter and occupy it?
 




I'm not sure what you mean by exercises with energy. I've heard a lot of talk about this since joining the BBS and don't fully understand most of it. Though I suspect what people are doing is just stimulating what Mystics call Chakras. Or they are practising developing their powers of mental visualisation. Both of which are nowhere near the same thing as Astral Projection.

Actual projection is a natural process that needs to be triggered. RB in Astral Dynamics calls it a Projection Reflex. Which describes it perfectly. Projection is a reflex action that occurs when you place your body under certain conditions. First there is a tingling, then a vibration, which literally feels like your whole body is buzzing and vibrating. Then you can let those vibrations build to the point where you feel yourself taking off.

From what you say in your post, I would gauge the mental process your are involving yourself with is some kind of creative visualisation. Which is not the same thing as Astral Projection. Though it is perfectly possible to "visualise" a projection experience just as anyone can dream about having one.

If you were truly projecting your sense of conscious awareness into the Astral, believe me, there would be no doubt about it. It's like when, occassionally, someone will post and ask something along the lines of, "Was this an obe or just a dream?" The straight answer is, if you have any doubt, then it was a dream.

There is an area of the brain that acts as an interface between your physical body and the Astral realms. What you need to do is learn to plug your collective sense of conscious awareness ( i.e. your 5 senses together with mental faculties such as thought, memory, etc.)  into that area of the brain. Then, through your collective sense of conscious awareness, you will begin to experience Astral-realm sensations, as opposed to Physical-realm sensations.

However, before this can happen, you need to place your Physical body into a certain pre-projection state.

I've only recently come across the Gateway CD's from the Monroe Institute. I can honestly say they are definitely a good aid to Projection. Wave-1 takes you to what they call Focus 10. This is basically the *same* pre-projection state I learnt to place myself in: only through years of trial and error! By following tracks 1 & 2 of the first CD, anyone should be able to place themselves in this state in just a few weeks.

Basically, this state is described as "mind awake... body asleep".

Understand that your "collective sense of conscious awareness" can be unplugged from your Physical body and connected to what is commonly called your Astral Body (though, personally, I can't get on with that term). It might not feel like this unplugging is possible because, for years, through your collective sense of conscious awareness, you have only experienced Physical-body sensations.

In the "mind awake... body asleep" state, it's not so much that your body has gone to sleep (though I do agree it is a handy way of describing it). What you have actually done is detach, or unplug, your collective sense of conscious awareness from your Physical body. In that event you cannot feel your physical body anymore.

Once unplugged, using a little meta-physical imagery, you can gather or focus your collective sense of conscious awareness and let it drift upwards; so as to make contact with, or plug into, the area of the brain that interfaces with the Astral realm(s) of matter: as opposed to the Physical realm. At which point, as I say, you will begin to experience Astral-sensations.

Yours,
Frank

 







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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2002, 07:32:06 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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quebec
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2002, 11:35:03 »

Could you go a little further Frank on the "projection reflex" part of OBE.
It seems to me and to many still trying to OBE on this forum, that the state pre-exit (i.e. vibrations etc...) is often reached but not the exit (conscious that is!).

Is there something  that you have to do, or not do, to get the "projection reflex" going ? Or is the exit  somewhat automatic once you reach a certain level, vibrations etc...

 
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Frank
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2002, 15:11:16 »


Yes, the exit as you say is largely "automatic" once a certain intensity of vibration has been reached.

By slowing down what was my normal projection process, I realised that it is not enough merely to feel vibrations. You have to let them build in intensity. I used to control their intensity by modulating my breathing, but quickly found they could be regulated merely by thinking about them in a certain way.

I posted on this topic a short while ago, where I say to listen to the vibrations as well as feel them. You will start to realise they are composed of different frequencies and/or intensities of vibration that you can learn to become attuned to.

I found that allowing their intensity to build slowly, whilst engaging in a side-to-side rocking motion, at some point I would roll out of the Physical and drop through my bedroom floor into the kitchen. But if I let them build in intensity, whilst lying still, I can shoot off to the Astral like I'd just been fired from a cannon.

Yours,
Frank


 
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quebec
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2002, 19:51:40 »

quote:
Originally posted by Frank:

Yes, the exit as you say is largely "automatic" once a certain intensity of vibration has been reached.

By slowing down what was my normal projection process, I realised that it is not enough merely to feel vibrations. You have to let them build in intensity. I used to control their intensity by modulating my breathing, but quickly found they could be regulated merely by thinking about them in a certain way.

I posted on this topic a short while ago, where I say to listen to the vibrations as well as feel them. You will start to realise they are composed of different frequencies and/or intensities of vibration that you can learn to become attuned to.

I found that allowing their intensity to build slowly, whilst engaging in a side-to-side rocking motion, at some point I would roll out of the Physical and drop through my bedroom floor into the kitchen. But if I let them build in intensity, whilst lying still, I can shoot off to the Astral like I'd just been fired from a cannon.

Yours,
Frank


 


Could you elaborate also Frank on the factors involved in getting the vibrations.  

As I see it right now, you relax your body, work to get into a trance state, keep the mind "emptied". Once there I found that using the "rope" technique from Robert's book, I have been able to get the vibrations a few times, with the pounding heart, flushes etc...but no exit. I don't have any fear but I get too eager, too excited, and this create tension in my body. I think that the solution for this is only practice and time.

What do you consider the most important factor in reaching the vibrations. Is it the "thinking about them in a certain way" as you mentionned previously ?
Or is it the depth of the trance.


 
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2002, 19:51:40 »



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ralphm
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2002, 22:01:39 »

seems like the onset of vibrations happens in the process of relaxation- you do not have to be in trance for them to start. seems like their likelhood of being  intense and/or easy to start happens in some cycle of the moon or astrological or personal whatever.(sounds like a good question for the moderator.) i remember waking one night going to th bathroom and laying back down and they started without a thought about it, other times they take forever to induce

 
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Tom
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2002, 00:02:58 »

In a book I read about astral projection, it said that we create an energy body and go out of the physical body in the energy body we created. It said that with practice it becomes possible to use increasingly less dense bodies and to move higher up in the astral planes using those lighter bodies. To move around in the near-physical body it suggests pulling more energy from the physical body and making the energy body denser. Then the body (it said) can become dense enough to appear to other people easily or even to move objects. The closest I've come to this is moving energy around within my physical body.

Sometimes the vibrations come with relaxation, but usually relaxation just puts me to sleep. Maybe it is just necessary to catch up on my sleep (of which I haven't been getting enough) in order to stay alert longer.


 
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chohan
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2002, 01:05:37 »

Frank - enjoyed your input here. I agree about the wave series and have been drawn to the Focus12-liftoff I believe in wave3.Curiously, when I stumbled into the vibrations over a week ago I was just experimenting with trance and breath, no audio input. Indeed a projection "reflex" just like the panic reflex that set in on me. I'm inclined to think the panic reflex is ego related... "what's happening to ME" survival type flee response.
  Interesting when you said you can almost hear the vibrations at some of the frequencies. I'm starting to think the tinnitus (ringing ear) that the army gave me was a curse but now a blessing. When doing a full body circuit I've noticed by focusing on that high-pitched ringing in my head that it helps clear the monkey mind and can almost act as a channel to help with energy focus. Plus the fact that the ringing is very high frequency and modulates, any thoughts?
Lately, I've been attempting to form the energy around my head in a ring and just play with and then amplify it. It amazes me that we can even do this just with will and intention. Will keep you all posted and enjoy reading!

peace,
chohan

 
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kifyre
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2002, 01:29:36 »

quote:
Originally posted by Frank:

Yes, the exit as you say is largely "automatic" once a certain intensity of vibration has been reached.

By slowing down what was my normal projection process, I realised that it is not enough merely to feel vibrations. You have to let them build in intensity. I used to control their intensity by modulating my breathing, but quickly found they could be regulated merely by thinking about them in a certain way.

I posted on this topic a short while ago, where I say to listen to the vibrations as well as feel them. You will start to realise they are composed of different frequencies and/or intensities of vibration that you can learn to become attuned to.

I found that allowing their intensity to build slowly, whilst engaging in a side-to-side rocking motion, at some point I would roll out of the Physical and drop through my bedroom floor into the kitchen. But if I let them build in intensity, whilst lying still, I can shoot off to the Astral like I'd just been fired from a cannon.


Hey, everyone, here's another free, complete obe book online. At the end of each chapter he gives a different visualization exercise, many designed to get you to the vibrations.

(This link has been posted before at some point.)

The book:
http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html

Quiescing The Mind:
(This might be of particular interest to you, Frank. See at the bottom.)
http://www.robertpeterson.org/chap16.html

His "how to do it" technique:
http://www.robertpeterson.org/chap24.html

Enjoy!

Mark



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Frank
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2002, 07:16:08 »

quote:
Originally posted by quebec:
Could you elaborate also Frank on the factors involved in getting the vibrations.  

As I see it right now, you relax your body, work to get into a trance state, keep the mind "emptied". Once there I found that using the "rope" technique from Robert's book, I have been able to get the vibrations a few times, with the pounding heart, flushes etc...but no exit. I don't have any fear but I get too eager, too excited, and this create tension in my body. I think that the solution for this is only practice and time.

What do you consider the most important factor in reaching the vibrations. Is it the "thinking about them in a certain way" as you mentionned previously ?
Or is it the depth of the trance.
 



I'd disagree here with some of what you say. I used to do the "relax your body, etc" stuff. But found it was far more efficient to first relax what was going on in my head and my body would, in the main, automatically relax. That is why I am so eager to recommend the Gateway Wave-1 CD because it basically shows you right away "exactly" how to do it. Whereas it took me years of trial and error.

Again, I would say to anyone having difficulty to simply buy the Wave-1 CD and follow what is on the first 2 tracks. Put aside anything else and simply follow that. Keep practising (every day if you can) until you reach the Focus 10 state, i.e. mind awake... body asleep.

I feel strongly that beginners try too many so-called "projection methods". They try this and that method and none of them work, so they give up. What they fail to realise, I believe, is that the "method" in itself is not what causes you to project. But that is how I see these methods being marketed.

It's like, "Take this pill and it will get rid of your headache." So you take the pill and the headache goes away. "Buy this XXX Projection method and you'll be projecting in minutes!" So you buy the method, follow it to the letter, and nothing happens. So you try another, and another, and another... and for most people... nothing happens. A small minority have the necessary degree of faith to stick with it and work it out. Once you do so, you realise that a *lot* of the commercial stuff is total cr*p.  

Problem is, after a number of failures, people naturally start to question the validity of the whole thing. But if I can do it, anyone can. The exact same difficulties I hear about people having on this BBS I had myself, years ago.  

Plus, I don't know what people mean by "trance state". I hear this term a lot and have read it in AD but, to me, the word "trance" means as it says in the dictionary, i.e. a state in which a person is unaware of their surroundings or actions. Like a stage hypnotist puts a subject in a "trance" and suggests they make noises, or do certain actions, so as to humour the audience.

At all times during the projection process I am fully conscious and aware of everything that is happening. In no way do I ever feel like I am in some kind of "trance". The "state" I am in is as described on the Wave-1 CD: mind awake... body asleep. Plus, there is no "pounding heart" and no "flushes" I feel absolutely nothing coming from my physical body at all (prior to the onset of vibrations) nor do I feel like I am doing anything remotely to do with "energy".

I'm slowly beginning to realise that this "pounding heart" sensation almost certainly comes about from activating what mystics call Chakras. I once did that quite by accident and, yes, there was a pounding kind of vibrating feeling about my heart region, coupled with other sensations. Which is what I suspect you are doing. But that is not Astral Projection.

The process of Astral Projection is, in a sense, like driving. While you can have choices about which actions to take, there are various strict rules that everyone must follow. Like, all driving on the same side of the road. You can choose where to drive to, or what car to go in, etc. But you cannot wake up one morning and think, "Hmm... which side of the road shall I drive to work on today?"

Projection is a reflex action that WILL occur if you bring your mind and body into a particular state. That particular state is the SAME for everyone. You can choose to enter that state by use of various means. But whatever means you choose it must, at the end of it all, bring you into that particular pre-projection state in order to stimulate the natural projection reflex which I am sure everyone has.

Yours,
Frank  


 
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Frank
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2002, 07:29:10 »

quote:
Originally posted by chohan:
Frank - enjoyed your input here. I agree about the wave series and have been drawn to the Focus12-liftoff I believe in wave3.Curiously, when I stumbled into the vibrations over a week ago I was just experimenting with trance and breath, no audio input. Indeed a projection "reflex" just like the panic reflex that set in on me. I'm inclined to think the panic reflex is ego related... "what's happening to ME" survival type flee response.
  Interesting when you said you can almost hear the vibrations at some of the frequencies. I'm starting to think the tinnitus (ringing ear) that the army gave me was a curse but now a blessing. When doing a full body circuit I've noticed by focusing on that high-pitched ringing in my head that it helps clear the monkey mind and can almost act as a channel to help with energy focus. Plus the fact that the ringing is very high frequency and modulates, any thoughts?
Lately, I've been attempting to form the energy around my head in a ring and just play with and then amplify it. It amazes me that we can even do this just with will and intention. Will keep you all posted and enjoy reading!

peace,
chohan



Yes, the projection reflex normally activates the fight/flight response. Problem is, as I've posted before, the collective sense of conscious awareness you take with you to the Astral is exactly the same as the one you have on the Physical. Therefore, you need to introduce the new sensations gradually in order to allow your consciousness to become accustomed to them.

Yours,
Frank


 
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junkie
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2002, 17:02:05 »

Hi Frank,

I'd like to try this CD, but, unfortunately, it is too expensive an experiment. I would like to know, if the audio-files can be downloaded from the internet?

 
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Frank
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2002, 18:01:30 »



UK copyright law allows a person to copy exerpts from a work in order to demonstrate a point or idea, or whatever. Provided there is no money changing hands, of course.

I was thinking of making the Wave-1 CD available on KaZaA, purely for research purposes. Then, once a person got going, they'd buy the CD set from the Monroe Institute in order to progress further.

As I say, I'm sure such actions would be within the Law as it stands in the UK. But I will double-check with a lawyer-friend tomorrow.  

Yours,
Frank



 
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kifyre
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2002, 20:54:21 »

quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
I was thinking of making the Wave-1 CD available on KaZaA, purely for research purposes. Then, once a person got going, they'd buy the CD set from the Monroe Institute in order to progress further.


Are you thinking of encoding the CD into mp3's? I'm wondering if the lossy compression of the mp3 format would ruin all the hemi-sync/binaural beat stuff they have going on behind the scenes.

---

From:
http://www.hemi-sync.com/customerinfo/FAQ.html

Q: I hear a hissing noise on some tapes. Is that a defect ? Should I use the Dolby® function on my stereo?

A: No to both questions. What you are hearing is "pink noise" (sometimes described as a swishing sound). It is a combination of all the frequencies the human ear can perceive, with higher and lower frequencies adjusted to be equal in volume. Pink noise enhances the perception of the Hemi-Sync sound patterns, and therefore plays a valuable role on certain Hemi-Sync products. Dolby® nosie reduction attempts to filter out the pink noise. Therefore, it is important not to use Dolby®, or other noise reduction systems, when listening to Hemi-Sync audio products on tape.

---

Mark



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junkie
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2002, 04:49:01 »

Another option would be to purchase one original copy from the Monroe Institute and then to record it on CD ( = make copies) in order to share it with the others. If 10 people buy it "together", the price will be reduced significantly...

 
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2002, 14:47:23 »

Yikes!  tough question...

To project yourself, you need to first get into the drivers seat, and buckle yourself in. Sounds like your standing outside the vehicle, watching it drive away.

When relaxing, concentrate on removing all sensation of you laying on the bed. When this is done you should feel your body weight, but not the bed underneath.
Then move your focus to the point behind your brow and eye area. Concentrate on what you see behind your closed eyelids, move all of your bodily senses through this space your looking at.
You will feel like a whole tiny person inside your head, with no awareness of your physical body laying on the bed. Like being cut off at the neck( for lack of better terms).
This is the driver's seat! The departure area, when you feel this displacement of being very tiny, inside a vast area (your head), you are buckled in.

                 Nightflier...


 
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Tom
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2002, 20:04:27 »

When I do exercises with energy, I can feel energy and have been for some time. My awareness must at least partially be in the energy. When sending energy outside of my body, I feel the energy flowing out. It does not feel like my awareness goes along. Going out of body does not involve the physical body. I'm leaving that behind (though not empty). In order to succeed with astral projection do I need to try to occupy energy withouot that energy having to occupy matter such as my body? If so, how do I begin to pull energy away from matter and occupy it?


 
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