Help for a beginer, how do you dreamwalk?

[catmeow]

You're making the mistake that most people make when confronting someone with a very strong belief that what they believe is right.
It's not arrogance, it's confidence.  Why does that anger you?

Because it was actually arrogance. No mistake.

[Xanth]

Constantly expressing opinions as facts, is irritating. I think it rubs people up the wrong way. It certainly gets on my nerves! We had a spammer called Sharpe who was really irritating and got himself banned in the end (then he quickly popped back on the grid as Sharpe2, Sharpe3 etc!). The alternative is to constantly preface with "imo" or "personally" or "I believe". This can be equally annoying. But it has to be done at least occasionally, so that the reader has some slight inkling that the poster isn't a complete wingnut!

I agree 100%... I generally TRY to do just what you say.  It does get tedious and sometimes I do forget to do it and sometimes I just don't feel the need to.
Sometimes, I'm still in "posting on MY website" mode, where I really don't need to express my beliefs as a possibility.

In any case, I did preface my first post here on page 4 with "I think...".  

[Xanth]

Because it was actually arrogance. No mistake.

Then that's what you "choose" to see.  Perception is a huge thing when dealing with other people.
I read every word he's ever written... even from his patriotism in defending his political and national stances, I witnessed only confidence in his posts.

[catmeow]

Then that's what you "choose" to see.  Perception is a huge thing when dealing with other people.
I read every word he's ever written... even from his patriotism in defending his political and national stances, I witnessed only confidence in his posts.

I'd like to put it to the vote! But otherwise I shalln't argue about it. 

[personalreality]

But I do think that the rather arbitrary and simplistic Foc levels paradigm doesn't work and doesn't explain all of the observed facts. I'm not a big fan of it.

I used to be on this board when Frank was contributing and I found him to be, probably, the most arrogant member of the board in history. As a mod he was also rather rude.  Most people, stunned by his forthrightness, simply rolled over and daren't argue with him.  Well we have many teachers to choose from, Monroe, Bruce, Buhlman, Fox, Muldoon etc.... They all say different things.... Be careful who you worship!

I love you.

[personalreality]

also, nothing is fact, especially when dealing with this kind of abstract stuff.

that in mind, everything any of us say on this forum can be assumed to be opinion (even if it's someone else's). 

[catmeow]

I love you.

Appreciated!

[Naykid]

i would like to know how you validate this experience for yourself Nay.  (i'm really being serious too, not trying to be contradictory or anything, i legitimately want to know)

i mean, if what you have is subjective experience how can you prove it to yourself (assuming you rely on objective measurement for your validation)? 

Well, I've had the same dream as my mother, husband and just learned a few months ago, my son.  We validated by me starting to tell the dream and then them freaking out that I experienced the exact same dream.  Different dreams for each person mind you.  I have this annoying habit of telling my dreams to everyone in the family.  Breakfast is a good time to share the night's dreams. 

I've said several times, I have a learning disability so it makes it very hard to get into the logistics, I learn by doing.  I had a hard time in school when it came to trying to learn something out of a book, but if you let me have hands on with it, I'd sometimes even surpass the book smart people.  *shrugs* 

When I have an experience I do mull it over in my mind, but when I say that I mean I walk thru it again... I don't question it.  I don't really care if it's real or not.  I just feel like I helped someone.  This morning I had at least six different dreams...  I wish I had the time to write them all down, but when I wake up, my feet hit the floor running.  There are too many ppl here that depend on me taking care of things.  My dreams take a back sit.. unfortunately.  Hell, I take a back seat to everyone else needs.  I'm not complaining, I love being a Mommy and taking care of my family.  My oldest is about to leave the nest and go into the Military, perhaps that will give me a little more time to have validations for others. lol

Anyways, I'll never be able to argue this point to everyone's satisfaction, because I don't think like y'all do, but in my mind, that doesn't make my experiences any less than the next person.

[catmeow]

Hey Nay, don't ever run yourself down. You're doing just fine.

I am pulled into people's personal dream space all the time.   I don't understand why you think it's impossible..?

It is possible. I've done it.

[Naykid]

Yes, baiting.  You're hoping to anger me by your "you have no clue" statement.  Sorry, not going to work. 
The only time I contradict myself is when I learn something new and take it in as part of my belief system... then it's not longer a contradiction.

Anyways, getting back to the point, I gave you a "solid statement" already.
Who cares how I came about my beliefs... I don't ask you how you came to yours.
You're not entering their dream... they can't dream, they're dead.
You're entering their Focus 3 oC belief system reality... a collective consciousness area. 
I honestly do not remember.
Although, I do know that what we "sense" and "feel" can be quite misleading.
I can only speak in "absolutes" when I'm talking about MY beliefs.  How else am I to do it?
As I said, I'm not questioning YOUR beliefs, I'm simply trying to fit your experiences into my mold.  I'm not sure why you get all bend out of shape over it. :/

Perhaps I should put that 'disclaimer' back in my signature? 
"Everything I say on this forum or ANYWHERE, for that matter, is my own opinion and/or belief."

I'm not baiting, it's all in your head, but by the length of your post it seems to me it has rubbed you the wrong way.

You gave me an answer that answered nothing.. but it doesn't matter, I really don't feel like fighting with you tonight.  And it does seem like you are questioning not only my beliefs but of other people that do not see exactly the way you do.

Maybe dead ppl do dream, I don't know, but I did say "reality" after dream.

I suppose feelings can be misleading, but sometimes that is all I have to go on.  Sometimes a whole experience is done without words and just feelings.  For instance it would take someone a hell of a lot longer to tell me something with words than just giving me the feeling that they were a football player when they were young and..yadda, yadda, yadda. See?

*sigh*  I'm not getting bent out of shape, please stop projecting.   I'm also sorry, but I don't buy this.  You are trying to fit everyone else into what you think is the right mold... Frank's mold.   It is fine that what he wrote touched you or spoke to you, whatever.  But Catmeow is right.  Frank was an arrogant ass and I had no problem telling him this. Believe it or not we were pretty good friends until he decided to have a major mental break down and said some awful mean stuff that wasn't called for. I stop taking people's abuse long ago and he was no exception. That is what turned me off of his model to begin with. That and the fact that it was like trying to read friggin stereo instructions to me.    He would get so upset if someone thought different and he used his mod status to silence others.   It was wrong.  You remind me of him.  Being a moderator doesn't mean you have to be anal about every little thing.  I do realize there are a very large amount of kids on here, but damn. 

Instead of changing your sig line, why don't you just stop telling people that don't think exactly like you, it is all in their heads and then directing them to a Frank link.

 

[Naykid]

Hey Nay, don't ever run yourself down. You're doing just fine.

It is possible. I've done it.

Thank you CM, I really do appreciate that. 

[catmeow]

No worries Nay.

He would get so upset if someone thought different and he used his mod status to silence others.

Bang on the money. That's how I see it too I'm afraid.

[Xanth]

All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.

[personalreality]

i feel similar Nay.  When it comes down to it, the only thing I can really know is my experience (whether or not that fits into the mold of what is real or not is irrelevant to me) and the feelings I get from those experiences.  I am curious about the nature of the experience, but that doesn't make me question it's validity.

[Xanth]

i feel similar Nay.  When it comes down to it, the only thing I can really know is my experience (whether or not that fits into the mold of what is real or not is irrelevant to me) and the
feelings I get from those experiences.  I am curious about the nature of the experience, but that doesn't make me question it's validity.

I agree completely that the only thing that really matters is your own experience.  I certainly DO NOT question that... and I'd even be foolish to do so.
Your experience is your experience... how you interpret it is also your own.  Nobody can change that.

I'm not trying to fit your experience into my mold for YOUR benefit... I'm doing it entirely for MY own benefit.
I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs with my conclusion... I'm attempting to reinforce my own.  

Also, me doing this doesn't question the validity of it, in even the slightest.  As I said, it still remains YOUR own experience.
What you learned from it is still 100% valid and real.

EDIT:  I wanted to add something to this post of mine as well...
I speak my mind about my own beliefs in this manner not just to the benefit of myself.  There are others out there who have the same or similar beliefs to mine and I do it for them too.  So that they can read someone's experiences and then read my alternative explanation and see what fits their model better... to see if it reinforces their beliefs too.