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Author Topic: Suicide and spiritual growth  (Read 12611 times)
Frank
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2002, 21:40:20 »


Alpha, you are making great progress.

The realisations you are expressing are very advanced in the general scheme of things. The key thing is to retain that control. As you say it's not easy. The big problem we have to face is how can we make people realise? What is it that we can just click our fingers and do: that will givepeople the same (or even better a greater) level of understanding? Keep working on that, my friend. There's more than you behind you hoping.

Yours,
Frank




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Heimdall
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2002, 01:34:52 »

Alpha,

What you said can be summed up as "hate hurts the hater".  Hate does nothing but make you mull over how you've been hurt, feel sorry for yourself, etc.  It serves no useful purpose in modern society.  Our animalistic "fight vs. flight" instinct clicks on and we have nothing to release it with.  Aggression, while important early on when we were faced with danger, has no release today except in meaningless agression which solves NOTHING.  What does acting the fool towards someone that has slighted you solve? I've seen many "adults" claim that what they did to this person was because "he/she started it".  You have a choice to end it by not responding and ignoring.

But sometimes, I think it IS necessary to stand up for yourself.  Taking thoughtless jabs at someone as retribution is not "standing up for yourself".  I have found that asking them "why do you feel this way?" and insisting that they answer works well.  Admittedly, it is very awkward at first because usually the perpetrator doesn't even remember why they disliked you in the first place, but it works.  It might be a little odd, but keeping a cool head seems to work wonders!

When someone royally pisses you off, and you react by being ticked off - you have done nothing but fall right into their trap.  Misery loves company after all.

Anyway, that's enough of my "wisdom".  What do I know?  After all, I only have my experience to back things up with and nobody else.  We're all in the same boat, trying to figure out what the hell it's all about.....

And the first one to figure it all out wins a billion dollars!

Frank,

Would it be possible for me to speak with you offline about OBE?  I have had much success with my other psychic (paranormal) abilities, but I am frusterated with OBE.  It's the one thing that really hasn't come "naturally", either due to my naturally skeptic mind or my natural disposition towards NOT being able to OBE.

Instead of cluttering this board with my ramblings about OBE and my difficulty with it, would it be possible for you to at least answer a few questions offline about this?

If so, I'll send you my email address.

Blessings,
Heimdall

 
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2002, 01:34:52 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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jilola
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2002, 03:08:27 »

Hee this topic got interesting after all.

For myself I can only say that I'm very asctic as to what feelings I have for people and situations around me. Mostly I don't feel one way or another about many people.  But the ones I call friends I'll die for, the ones I love I'll live for. Situations as such are not really emotions.

For me , when someone stomps on me or when I have a conflict with someone it's not really emotions towards the person as much as it's emotion towards the situation. I can intensely dislike something that happens but once it's resolved the relationship with the person(s) is based on the individual people.
This has caused me trouble that doesn't seem to have an end. Many if not most people confuse conflict between issues with conflict between people. And many if not most people can't relate to my responses when they are not directed toward them as individuals but toward the conflict they and I create.
There is a difference foor me when I feel something for a person and when I feel something for a thing. As a result I don't ever love things but I do love people, few people but some.
Feeling anf emotion are different things.

I'm not sure how this relates to the topic. Maybe it doesn't as such. Emotion is one thing growth is another, at least for me. Growth can induce emotion but for the most part emotion usually hinders growth, at least uncontrolled emotion.
All things come to an end in this incarnation. Some because of old age, others because of sickness or injury. The thing I can't see is why choosing to end this incarnation is such a taboo. I guess it's because the majority doesn't see our current life as one of many.
Reincarnation doesn't in my opinion diminish the value of any single lifetime. But it does provide the ultimate consolation when life really gets though. It means that we can at any time choose to end it. Not that we should, but just that there is always, no matter how deep the s**t get, a choice and an exit. We can face whatever is thrown at us knowing that there is the possibility of retreat.

2cents & L&L

jouni

 
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alpha
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2002, 21:00:19 »

A few things that I want to say.Blossom me and you are very much the same.I guess we all are,but I can really understand  the hermit thing.Because I am quite the herm myself.http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

Frank,thank you,Im reading you loud and clear over here.I feel like I know what those things are that I can do.They have always been there.Yes they are simple,But they involve me mushing through my biggest fears.Strangely they are all of the physical.No worrys,No hurrys.It feels as if the worst is already over.

Heimdall,
Personal experience is the best teacher,thank you for your insights!

jilola says:
"Not that we should, but just that there is always, no matter how deep the s**t get, a choice and an exit. We can face whatever is thrown at us knowing that there is the possibility of retreat.
2cents & L&L"

yes thats true but why kill yourself?If your ever being exposed to a hostile environment constantly.And it is turning you into an atom bomb.You can always pack your chit up and  run for the hills.I did and alot of good has come out of it.Sure I had to give up many things.But really they were nothing,peace of mind is priceless.

                                                                                               Love all,ALPHA

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"your divine awareness awakens all the love in your being.Hating and  fearing forsaken,gone are the guilt and the blame.Your soul forgives,your divinity lives"
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jilola
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2002, 21:22:29 »

Alpha: But my point is not that one should ever kill oneself. It's that no matter what there is always something else, my back is never against the wall so to speak.
I've always been of the opinion that when there seems to be nothing to loose then every option is available to us and that in that situation whatever we do in this life it's always worthwhile.
The option of leaving a life gives a choice, and in choice there's possibility, in possibility everything. To have a choice is to have hope and hope is what gives strength to face whatever the world may throw at us.

2cents & L&L

jouni

 
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2002, 21:22:29 »



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alpha
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2002, 22:29:47 »

misunderstood ya,maybe cause I was reading too  fasthttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
quote:
Originally posted by jilola:
Alpha:
I've always been of the opinion that when there seems to be nothing to loose then every option is available to us and that in that situation whatever we do in this life it's always worthwhile.


2cents & L&L

jouni

 



Yes I would think so,even if you have gone through that same  experience before in another life and learned from it.You probably would  have a very diff. perspective and thus get things out of it,that you would not have seen before.




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"your divine awareness awakens all the love in your being.Hating and  fearing forsaken,gone are the guilt and the blame.Your soul forgives,your divinity lives"
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clandestino
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« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2002, 11:18:52 »

Blossom, the emotional surge that Frank mentioned as a "little bit of joy" is known in various magical traditions as "Agape". Read Paulo Coelho's book "the pilgrim" for a little more detail.

 
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2004, 00:57:06 »

I wish I had been here to get to know Frank... I just dug this out and thought it an interesting thread.  

Many different things going on there, the "Little bit of joy" compared to the "Lot of joy" Frank talks about which can be very distracting when you need to get things done... and of course the topic of Suicide itself.  

Jouni, I think you and James are the only people still here who were originally part of this thread and I would like to see if it can be picked back up.

My understanding of suicide is that if a life is cut short, the next lifetime will be a large degree harder because of the unfinished business that the soul was supposed to do in the previous lifetime.  If this is so... (who knows, really) why would anyone end it.  Sure, we have options but if it is bad enough to end it, why would anyone want it to get worse?

Kerri
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2004, 02:16:35 »

Ahhhhhh a oldy but goody..[Cheesy]

I wasn't around for the original posting, but I'm here now.  So my take on the original point of this thread..*sigh*

Suicide....Over the years of reading and from my own experiences, it has changed.  At first I thought if one killed off his physical, then you would just keep looping back and forth..with no guides to help you, thus making it harder to learn the lesson that you started out to learn in the first place.  

Then sucide found its way into my life experience, changing my view on things, so I thought if you do commit suicide you don't get punished in the sense that you're going to keep reincarnating into the same situation with no help, but you work through things on the "otherside".  It takes longer I think, cause sheesh, lets face it..things on the otherside are much more relaxed and not so much conflict to learn from.

Now I think, after reading the thread that Lighthouse brought to light..hehe..play on words there.[Tongue] pretty much the same thing, about learning our lessons on the otherside and then some in our next incarnation.  

But then I got to thinking..yeah, I know scary..[^] What about Robert finding other parts of himself that were lost..were any of those parts lost due to commiting suicide??  I mean they were still there, they just hadn't merged with 'the one' yet.  I'm having a brain freeze..lol.

Don't cha just hate it when you mind has about a million things running through it and you can't grasp one good thing to go from there?..[Cheesy][Tongue] Story of my life..[Sad]

Nay





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beavis
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« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2004, 11:57:44 »

Why are so many people talking about lessons and other unpleasant things? I see nothing wrong with taking a long break from them and having some fun.
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jilola
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« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2004, 14:21:51 »

But no-one has claimed there's something wrong in taking a break and having fun. If fact I think it's essential, both in the physical sense and in the spiritual sense.


I just reread the thread and will post something once I get my thoughts straightened out. I've changed my position a bit from what I posted at the start of the thread.

2cents & L&L
Jouni
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« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2004, 17:29:23 »

Well put Runlola [Cheesy]

2cents & L&L
Jouni
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« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2004, 18:51:34 »

quote:
Originally posted by runlola

I have had suicidal tendencies. I believe that whatever thought or emotion you have sets up a vibration that effect many other people. When you are in a place of despair & hopelessness you start to connect with others on that level, where you go from there can effect those people as well, wherever they may be, because we are all one. If you keep going into the downward spiral, you are bound to take others with you. But if you pull yourself out of and try to find a solution, because you are ultimately responsible for your reality, you may also pull others out of the despair as well. You may not know whom you are helping but you owe it to yourself & all of mankind to try a little harder.

Hi Runlola,

Can I applaud you on been so brave to share your feelings on this sensitive subject, and close on such a sweet and positive note! I have been hovering over this thread pondering if it was worth putting in a pennies worth or a thousand words as it is a subject close to home for many reasons (long, long set of stories)[B)][B)][B)]

Yet you have been able to succinctly sum up my feelings exactly – well done [^]

Cheers,

Stephen [Smiley][Smiley][Smiley]
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« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2004, 12:53:35 »

quote:
yes thats true but why kill yourself?If your ever being exposed to a hostile environment constantly.And it is turning you into an atom bomb.You can always pack your chit up and run for the hills.I did and alot of good has come out of it.


It's been my experience that most talks about suicide usually have a quote like this somewhere in them. "Buck up junior, it's not as bad as you think it is; it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem, yadda yadda - take control of your life."  The problem with this train of thought is that it's entirely detrimental to the person who's suicidal.  It's almost condescending in nature.  I was severely depressed for maybe eight months or so, and it just lifted maybe two months ago.  During that period, I was extremely suidical at times.  There's no measure of emotional control that you can induce in yourself.  It's cold, it's dark, and there is no hope.  Do you know what it's like to not remember the feeling of happiness?  It's not that you haven't been happy in so long that you forget the taste and smell of it - you genuinely can't remember a single time in your life that you were happy.  Can you even imagine something like that?  It's as if the entire positive spectrum of human emotion has been wiped from your soul.  No hope, no joy, no happiness; all that's left is pain, torture, and defeat.  Now picture people telling you a handful of trite comments about how it's not as bad as you think, you can do something to make your life better, whatever.  Your brain is already working at full capacity to convice you of your worst fear, so someone telling you to "buck up" just makes you feel worse.  Half a year or more of this type of mental assault, and you'll be sitting in your bed, staring at a bottle of sleeping pills and wondering if the plastic bag will cut off oxygen to your brain in time for it to be a painless death.  

You know how in horror movies they never show the monster until the end of the movie?  That's because your mind can conjure up something infinitely more frightening than they could put on the screen.  Now imagine your brain working overdrive conjuring up ideas that you can't disbelieve - namely that there is no hope or reason to live.  If that's the type of lesson I've been sent down here to learn about, I want my astral money back, because I'm pretty sure I didn't sign up for this class.

Now after I've said all that, the experience was incredibly helpful and enlightening; and I sure as hell don't believe that we should try to banish these emotions from our consciousness.  In fact, the very act of trying to banish negative thoughts could be causing these suicidal outbursts in the first place. During my tenure in hell, I made my peace with the world and accepted all parts of myself, and in doing so, I tapped into something exciting and primal.  Realizing the ephemerality of existence, some days it feels like my consciousness has tapped into the lifeblood of the universe.  Without my experience, and the negative emotions that caused it, I'd still be walking around with blinders on.  What I took from the experience changed my life, but I'd like my future lessons to not involve me being a hair's width away from offing myself, as it could've just as easily gone the other way.
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« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2004, 17:08:52 »

Randomacity,

Thank you for sharing.  Although I have not felt suicidal (I feel like the struggles and hurdles would bee far more intense in my next incarnation if I viewed this as an option) I have felt somewhat depressed... seemingly in the same timeline as you.

For the past 18 months or so, I have experienced a very low point in my life... questioning who I am, why I have such strong feelings for a certain friend who I was in a romantic relationship with proior to meeting my husband and who has reappeared in my life after 7 years and after I've gotten married to another...  For a long time, whenever I would think about this person, email him, talk to him on the phone, I would send myself into such a deep sorrow, almost mourning.  I was experiencing such self condemnation for having these powerfully strong feelings yet believing I was trapped because of the commitment that I made to my husband shortly after leaving him.  (I left him because I wanted kids and he had a vasectomy... that's all.. no arguments, no discontent) I believe this past year in particular has been the lowest point in my life... and the clouds have just started lifting within the past 3 months or so, mainly because I have stopped talking to him.  I did this because it was causing me too much internal sorrow to keep up the communication... it was too difficult to function properly and I felt trapped.    

That said, I believe you are right when you say:
The problem with this train of thought is that it's entirely detrimental to the person who's suicidal. It's almost condescending in nature.


My husband and freinds would try to tell me to not think about it, yet it is telling the person that their feelings are invalid.  Sure, we are all responsible for our own feelings, but we are still entitled to feel any way we want.  Perhaps if I had some understanding from those who were clost to me who were telling me to snap out of it, I would have come out of it much sooner.  I don't, however feel that I'm completely in the clear because I'm sure if my friend were to call, it would start the cycle all over again.

I think that depression is is our unwillingness to address the inner yearnings of our hearts.  We hold the values of society at a higher standard than our own longings and yearnings, therefore feeling that just because everyone else thinks something should be a certain way, we must conform to that societal outlook... thereby causing ourselves a tremendous amount of guilt for not feeling what we think we should feel... At the same time denying our own inner selves by remaining in a state of stagnation...

more later.
Kerri
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« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2004, 17:58:38 »

Hello, friends...

Wow! Such a seemingly narrow topic has become manifold as the old guns go at it...

Let me take the time out of this serious, multifaceted omni-covering thread which seems to now encompass the entire lot of human struggles to add my two bits... As I see this whole hub-bub, I shall for you now elaborate.

The world which we inhabit, as most here would agree with me upon, is the product of a grand consciousness which made its deep love manifest into the emptiness that was the void, the cradle of being. The universe, at large, is composed of nothing more than energy, and this energy, as some would agree, is almost exclusively positive in nature, allowing one to surmise that this universe is for the most part a grand melting pot of love and ecstacy, a pool of collective joy from which beautiful things are eternally emerging; but this world is always expanding, the light of joyous connectedness is always asuaging the ills of darkness, uplifting the downtrodden. Though the universe is an orb of joy, it is also the home of dark realms, places where, although the light of the creator is ever-present, the pain and suffering inherent to the realms themselves prevent those dwelling within to grasp their connection to all that is.    

Our own world lies somewhere in this scheme of light and dark, which are, in truth, two faces of the same coin.

There are places here of insurmountible perfection of being, such as the Falling Lakes of Croatia, or the mountains of southern China, where it is difficult not to feel at one with the creator, but, to deny that there are places of quite a different nature as well, would be a naive error.

Our world is like a grand Las vegas. There is the beauty of the mountains which illuminates the darkness, and then there is what lies beyond, and all around. Our cities and our towns are wells of consumerism and desire, which shape the world around them in ways unthinkable. Our surroundings are moulded by the ways in which we think, and how we treat the living landscape. We have beautiful avenues of sparkling skyscrapers, but the nature of our cities is better reveiled through what lies beneath and within. Places like New York, Moscow, and Hong Kong are labyrinths of serpentine power grids, which serve as conduits to feed the greed of all who live there, and are primordeal nests of hostile and destructive technology employed not for progress, but for avarice, and that is only the beginning. There are vast sewer systems which transport the filth of the masses, chemical emmissions which pollute the air ( In L.A., to breathe the downtown air is equivalent to smoking a pack a day ), lairs of debauchery where narcotics, prostitution, extortion, laundering, and the murder of innocents to protect one's own vile designs is the rule and not the excpetion ( no, this is not Hollywood, such places are all too real )-all of this defilement is the result of our mindset. It was said previously in this thread that one's thoughts shaped the world around them, and this could not be more true. Our world is at times a hell of our own creation, and we have no one else to thank for its wretchedness other than our very own selves. No action goes unnoticed in this universe, and the world around us, as I have tried to stress, is a reflection of that which inhabits it. Like attracts like. The darkness we see is our own pain made manifest for us.

This world is a dark nest of fiends at times, this much is true, but it is the brightest light which shines at night. It is our place to walk in darkness, and to give hope to all who suffer alongside us. To live through great pain, and to witness vile enormity without losing faith in the light is the mark of virtue uncommon. I believe it is the story of an old Testament angle, probably Uriel, who walks the shadows of hell, giving solace to the suffering, always praising the light that is God, though all around is nothing but pain. It is an aquired skill to do this, you see, and not all can know the glow of hope which shines where none can see, for it is always out of sight. Not all can realize the light, though it ever be encompassed in shadow, waiting to be discovered.

There are countless millions who inhabit such worlds of shadow, plains where no ray glances, but the weak are tormented needlessly day by day, those who know not God, but all too well have come to know pain. There are innocents who live day by day, hoping and pining for some gleam of light to comfort them, to tell them that the blackness they inhabit is but a prison of paper bars, but this light never comes. They are only met with bleak despair, and they happen upon spectres among men, those who would only do them wrong. The house of cards which they have up to this point huddled in collapses, and their whole world falls apart. The pain which they are immersed in inundates them, and they see no more reason for living in a world of fleeting hopes, where grace is to be found, only to be a mere phantasm of false illusions. You can easily see why one might choose to take their own life, how an innocent soul can be rankled and broken to the point of final catharsis.

It is of little worth to tell these people that "it will get better", as they feel they have no pretext for thinking such thoughts, and such words have little empathetic value. The only thing which we can do for those who are the subjects of the world's broadsides is to be there for them, for the love which we show the suffering is akin to the love of God, and that is the greatest thing which we could ever give them. Compassion is an emotion infinitely more peerlessly beautiful than bliss. To learn to love others, and the poor world in which we live, is the thing at the heart of all of these strivings, the thing which brings us closest to God.

The suicidal are merely those whom the world has abused to the point of breaking, and ever so much more than forgive them their subtle error, we should stand by them, and lend them our own strengths.

Bless you all,
Stillwater  
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« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2004, 21:43:45 »

So far this thread has focused on suicide as an escape from a depressed and seemingly hopeless state.
What about a suicide from a conscious and voluntary stae of being?
Suppose one were to have the knowledge on par with enlightenement that all has been accomplished in one's life and that there was the free option of either continuing one's life or endig it and moving on?

No depression, not avoiding any problems, no espcaping things. Just shedding the physical and going home.

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« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2004, 21:55:11 »

Jouni,

Isn't putting it in your own hands telling yourself you have no faith in your own LIFE contract?  If you are (you being anyone) an enlightened being and feel it is just up to you to end it, isn't that saying you feel your work is done and there is no more room for growth?

Kerri
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« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2004, 21:57:54 »

No more work in these particular circumstances.
Remember that this is not all there is and that we have chosen these particula circumstances to achieve some experiences and to learn something about individualty.

2cents & L&L
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« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2004, 22:01:17 »

I suppose it could be another choice to experience yourself differently.

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« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2004, 22:06:40 »

It would be the choice between remaining in this lifetime to help others move along their paths and yourself moving on to the next set of circumstances. So yes, in a manner of speaking it would be a choice of experiencing yourself differently.

But one must remember that death itself is only the cessation of a physical existence, not the existence of yourself. ( and I use 'self to denote the individual instance of the single existence, god , whatever)

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« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2004, 09:48:40 »

quote:
Originally posted by runlola

What if ending your life ends your soul’s existence completely? You as you know yourself now will no longer exist. What if in order to keep your soul you have to see it through & killing yourself breaks that contract, therefore killing your soul completely….
Hi Runlola,

Personally I don’t believe this to be the case although great question to pose and one that so many of us face when moving from perhaps agnostic to evidential understanding of a small part of the greater scheme of things.

From experience of having has a close call myself through misadventure in my early twenties (experienced as a NDE), and having had a fair bit of exposure with spirit communication ever since in some form or another - I am absolutely comfortable with the continuation of existence after death. This has included contact with people who I knew in life before they passed on by their own hands (however sad). What I have noticed is in the contacts I have had, and via readings with other mediums is that these individuals are very much given opportunity to clear the air by way of seeking healing/forgiveness both for themselves and when ever possible via the process of evidential communication to loved ones etc.
quote:
Or what if you have to start again in a more hellish situation until you finally do see it through?

In addition they do not by necessity appear to have to go through some kind of hellish torment in the after life unless that is what they choose to experience, and as soon as they feel prepared to receive help then it is offered as a matter of course.

There are reams of books and articles on these types of issues and although not buying in the complete view posed in this example it was and still is considered as classic account of after life experience – Life in the World Unseen, A detailed description of the afterlife given to the medium Anthony Borgia from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson.

Cheers,


Stephen
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jilola
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« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2004, 16:59:02 »

What I meant to point out that one doesn't have to be suicidal in the usual sense. The usual definition  of being sujicidal is that one is trying to escape an unbearable depressed state or a apparent dead end situation. Conditions seemingly beyond one's ability to cope.

I meant to juxtapose that with the voluntary choice in a case where everything is hunky dory. One is not in any horrible situation, not suffering any personal or societal torments, not depressed, not running, not out of options or in a dead end.
Just the realization that one doesn't have to hang on any longer. Nothig noble behind it, not doing it for anyone else or to advance any cause or point of view. Just leaving the office early.

 
quote:
What if ending your life ends your soul’s existence completely?

Well with the experience of oneness one comes to directly see that all are one and that one is eternal. You are not apart from it.
The realization that all has been done can only come after that and thus you already know the end of a body is not the end of the soul. It's only the end of one projection of it, if you will. You'll be burning a photograph and not the scenery.

2cents & L&L
Jouni
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Kazbadan
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« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2004, 18:42:49 »

Loooool!!Just now i have seen your quote runlola! Itīs impossible to commit suicide after seeing the "runlolarun"!

Well, anyway, suicide it is not bad as that if someone is tired of life:
-Until now i dont see any proof (concrete and solid, irrefutable proof)of life after death. So, if you suicide you will end with all the suffering in your life (i am supposing that there is not life after death). After death there will be only the "nothing" that contains "nothing for suffering". So, this is a good option.

-There is life after death: well, you are tired of life, why not going to heaven? Really! Why not doing it? The stupid life ends and you can have a nice holidays in the Eden. And the idea that the problem is not resolved itīs a lie: letīs suppose that you kill yourself because your wife is making love with other guys (stupid suicide as obvious: i would rahter kill her than myself[Smiley]...kiding! I would kill both of them [Cheesy]). Well, if heaven is heaven you could demand to the angel comuntiy that you want a girl much better than the $&$$# that you had in the Earth!

Or you can rest in paradise that your problems (mental ones) will disapear with time. The argument that the problem will not disapear itīs a lie! What about someone who suicides because is, letīs say , tetraplegic (dont ask me how can he kill him self). Thatīs something horrible but in the heaven you will no more have that problem. In no time, with our new body, completly free, you will forget that problem!

yes, suicide it is just another option, like: "Should i buy the Ferrari or the Porshe?" but instead you say: "Kill or not to kill?". You just need t choose the color of the coffin before you "go"![Smiley]
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« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2004, 18:54:26 »

Valid points Kazbadan but again you assume that the choice needs somethign negative to be valid. Something that one is tired of (life), afflicted by (quaruplegia), angry at (girlfriend cheating) etc. In each case the essential cause for the choice is running away and avoidance.

Can I detect the conditioning of death always being bad and that for some reason the mosrt significant choice of one's life, its end, is not your's to decide and that everyone should insist on changing your mind?.

It seems to me that our society has made death and dying such a taboo that it can inno circumstances be a choice and a good thing. Where does this come from? And "Thou shalt no kill" is not a valid reply since it doesn't get obeyed in simpler circumstances.

2cents & L&L
jouni
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