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Author Topic: To the masters out there - being in the astral and physical at the same time?  (Read 2210 times)
milk
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« on: September 17, 2015, 09:15:38 »

So I've heard Tom Campbell talk about this a few times in some of his lectures. He mentioned that in the early days of the Monroe Institute, Tom and some of the pioneers were able to simultaneously exist in several states of consciousness. They were able to be out of body in the astral, but physically able to recount what was happening at the same time in their isolation booths into a microphone in which Bob Monroe was able to instruct them while they were out of body.

I wanted to know if any regular projectors out there have been able to do this? Be in different phases of consciousness at the same time. It seems like a really extreme way to exist in this physical reality while also existing in a reality where time doesn't matter and all the other differences. huh
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 11:39:33 by milk » Logged

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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 10:05:04 »

Yes, it can be done. It is not uncommon for it to happen in children. I experienced it myself a few times while experiencing astral dreams. Once I became aware of the dream I would often begin to wake, but if you recognize this and relax, the dream would continue. The state has a strange duality about it where you are aware of your body laying in bed and you are looking at the blackness of closed eyelids, yet simultaneously in your mind there is completely alternate reality being perceived.

It is difficult to explain how the separation works, the best analogy I can think of is that it is like the ability of our ears to decipher individual instruments in music. Even though you are being hit with two perceptions at the same time it is in no way confusing. It almost feels like one reality is in the background and you can toggle between them with focus.

I think Robert Bruce also describes some experiences with this state in his book.
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 10:05:04 »

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ingerul9
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 13:16:15 »

If you get out a lot of the garbage about trance states you can say that anyone had that experience. If you drive a car on your highway and you are entranced in your own thoughts and your body does drive the car automatically you are in the state Tom Campbell suggests but not in a conscious way. That's the whole difference. When you are doing consciously you are in the state you describe.

It is the same as when reading a book and it so enthralls you that you forget your physical surroundings. You are still aware of your environment but it is in the "background" so to speak. So there is no mystery about it.
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Xanth
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 17:02:55 »

Ok, here's the thing...

You're always "here" and "there".  *ALWAYS*.  You can't NOT be in both places at once. 

Why?  Because you are consciousness.  You are part of everything.

What people need to learn is how to listen properly to both.  Also, putting aside the (very wrong) idea that this stuff is magical, mystical or hard is paramount.
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Trepkos
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 18:27:29 »

One can find him/herself in a kind of permanent trance state while wide awake and moving in the physical dimension. in this state, one can project into the astral, but the experience is not of a continuous nature. It is observing one's astral body in configurations of matter, like a photograph. If one focuses hard enough, then several photographs appear, something like a movie with a very low frames per second rate.

Also, putting aside the (very wrong) idea that this stuff is magical, mystical or hard is paramount.

Denying the mystique of things is like denying dreams, and their connection to reality. Science has just begun in "uncovering" the dreams of the mystics from through the ages. I'm not saying science is bad when it demystifies things. It's just that facts are a result of dreaming and the product of a dreamer. however, there may be a kind of time-lapse before the facts are accepted as facts. One can also say that science just selects the factual parts of the mystics and discard the rest. This is the root of all evil. There is no such thing as opposition in a broader context. However here's something what i find an interesting read:http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/did-helena-blavatsky-discover-the-theory-of-relativity-before-einstein
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 18:51:47 by Trepkos » Logged
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Trepkos
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 19:03:55 »

The author of that article claims that blavatsky read popular science from her time, but fails in proving this. If this is true, then Einstein just read the facts of popular science in the secret doctrine. but why did Einstein had a copy of a book from an occultist in his collection ? Einstein's sister also claimed this.

Hell i don't know, the whole schism is making me nuts. Science and mysticism....it may well be that science is right after all, there is a danger if mysticism comes to power in the world, as history has demonstrated. But is this an excuse for rejecting all of it ? What IF the universe is just an idea in the mind of some god ? OBE's are still considered bullcrap by the majority of scientists, a hallucination. If i have to believe this majority, then i'm forced to conclude that i'm a dysfunctional idiot. Maybe a blend of the two opposites gives a solution, if they blend after all. Why did most of the scientific experiments on ESP first showed positive results, and after replication negative ones ? Intent of the replicators? If it was intent, then the universe is just an idea in the mind of some god.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 19:23:26 by Trepkos » Logged
Xanth
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 19:43:54 »

Denying the mystique of things is like denying dreams, and their connection to reality. Science has just begun in "uncovering" the dreams of the mystics from through the ages. I'm not saying science is bad when it demystifies things. It's just that facts are a result of dreaming and the product of a dreamer. however, there may be a kind of time-lapse before the facts are accepted as facts. One can also say that science just selects the factual parts of the mystics and discard the rest. This is the root of all evil. There is no such thing as opposition in a broader context. However here's something what i find an interesting read:http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/did-helena-blavatsky-discover-the-theory-of-relativity-before-einstein
I don't simply DENY dreams... I tell you straight out that they don't exist as an objective experience.  
I will tell you straight out that you've never, in the history of your experience, had a "dream".  
What we experience every night is simply a projection of our consciousness to another reality (any reality) with a varying level of awareness.  What people mistake as a "dream", "lucid dream" or "astral projection/obe" is that varying level of awareness, because they all FEEL very different.  Until you experience ALL THREE of those varying levels within a single experience, you probably won't understand.

Anyway, I don't "deny" the connection of these experiences to the wider reality.  Quite the opposite, I take them and build upon it further than most people even realize where to begin.  Smiley

And the idea that things are magical until we "figure them out"... that's a ridiculous concept.  It always has been.  
Everything you are and can experience is of consciousness.  It's all "normal", whether you have it explained or not.  

But then, I guess, to most people, the concept that this physical reality isn't really all that physical is a hard pill to swallow.  LoL
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Trepkos
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2015, 20:46:34 »

I will tell you straight out that you've never, in the history of your experience, had a "dream".

Now that you mention it, it makes sense. 

What we experience every night is simply a projection of our consciousness to another reality (any reality) with a varying level of awareness.  What people mistake as a "dream", "lucid dream" or "astral projection/obe" is that varying level of awareness, because they all FEEL very different.  Until you experience ALL THREE of those varying levels within a single experience, you probably won't understand.

I guess i don't know yet what it means to experience them within a single experience, but i do remember that i had an experience once, where i felt totally empty. I don't know how to explain it. Words just don't do justice to these kinds of things. I stood up in bed, with this emptiness. It lasted approx. 20 seconds.


And the idea that things are magical until we "figure them out"... that's a ridiculous concept.  It always has been.

Perhaps you care to explain why the idea is ridiculous? I see concepts of science which manifest out of ancient ideas. Maybe i ought to reformulate the idea in other words to un-ridicule it?  


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Xanth
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 21:05:48 »

I guess i don't know yet what it means to experience them within a single experience, but i do remember that i had an experience once, where i felt totally empty. I don't know how to explain it. Words just don't do justice to these kinds of things. I stood up in bed, with this emptiness. It lasted approx. 20 seconds.
That is strange.  I don't think I can explain that one either.  Smiley
I'd definitely log that experience for now and then wait until you have more information pertaining to it or experience it again at which point you can experiment.

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Perhaps you care to explain why the idea is ridiculous? I see concepts of science which manifest out of ancient ideas. Maybe i ought to reformulate the idea in other words to un-ridicule it?
Most definitely.  People mostly use two terms in regards to this kind of stuff... "normal" and "paranormal".

Ostensibly (per my own experiences), everything is consciousness... meaning, everything is normal.  Now that also means this: nothing is paranormal (para meaning "above" normal).
Nothing is magical or mystical because nothing is strange or above normal.  It's all in your perspective.  The truth of reality and consciousness, when experienced, hits you pretty hard and you can't really go back to thinking along the lines of "physical" or "paranormal" anymore.

When people talk "normal" vs "paranormal"... they're simply referring to that which they know, vs that which they don't know and that that point you might as well start attributing lightning to Zeus throwing a hissy fit.  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2015, 00:14:50 »

Anything labeled as mystic, para etc is not understood.
Look at this example.
A battery, two wires and a lamp. Connect it in series and the lamp lights. Great physics 101. Now drop a 6 foot copper pipe centrally around 3 inches from the bulb so it connects to the wires.
The lamp isn't illuminated as you'd expect and the wires may fry too.
Now that's simple, basic and understandable.

The magic, para etc can be added now.

I can remove the battery leaving only the 3 inch wires from the pipe to the lamp intact and I can also light the lamp that bright it will burn out.
No battery, just magic?
A 101 student can do this. However impossible it seems from what you've been taught, it can be done.
When someone thinks they know everything, they should realise they dont. That's where an open mind comes in.
Rather than boxing things up into tight categories that seem justifiable, perhaps there's a far larger all encompassing truth that covers all the so called anomalies.
Think about this.
If there's no life after death, why do we see many proofs documented.
Another,
There's no blue tinted fluffel valve. Have you ever heard of one? No?
The reason being, I just made it up. No documentation stretching through thousands of years of history.

Listen and stay neutral to the unknown. You can always find out for yourself later.

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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2015, 00:52:28 »

But then, I guess, to most people, the concept that this physical reality isn't really all that physical is a hard pill to swallow.  LoL

It is hard to get your head around because most of us, including myself, have been conditioned to this reality. For me the first step to breaking this construct is to understand that there is a separation between the reality we perceive and what is actually there. A nice thought experiment is to imagine holding onto what is visually a solid box, but upon touch inspection you discover there is a hole in the middle that can only be felt, not seen.

We don't really know that what we see is real, but when you combine senses to verify each other it gives a sense of objective reality. This sense of objectiveness can further be compounded by other having another person verify that what they perceive matches what you percieve.

All of the extra-reality experiences I have had have not been objectively verifiable, but for some people they are. The moment you have two consciousness perceiving the same extra-reality there is no grounds left to call this reality physical and the other not. I suppose you can extend this idea to say that neither reality is physical at this point.
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Xanth
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2015, 01:24:39 »

There's just one rather large issue... you might be able to correlate your experience with someone else's experience, but (and this is the important part) that's all you can correlate.  You can't say that this person had the same experience of you, because "experience" is unique to the consciousness experiencing it.  You, literally, have zero way of knowing what I experience.  Even if I tell you an experience and you say that you've experienced the same thing before... well, you haven't.

Experience is unique to the experiencer.  Even in this physical reality (even though the big problem comes when you compare physical to non-physical).  This means that, regardless what you think, you can never objectively verify your reality.  *NEVER*.  It's beyond the ability of a consciousness to do this.

Once you truly understand why that is... then you will, ironically, understand what I'm saying. 

Thankfully, objectively verifying your reality is meaningless anyway to WHY you're here in the first place.  Those who are searching for that answer are going to be searching forever and wasting their time.  I teach people to Project so that they may find this out for themselves.  Once you remove as much bias as you can, it's the only conclusion one can come to via their spiritual journey and projection.

It's enlightenment.  The truth of your being.  It's the answer to the question and the question to the answer of "I am".
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 03:47:12 by Xanth » Logged

milk
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2015, 08:29:10 »

Hm wow - I agree Xanath Smiley we are here and there always. I guess I was really curious in the idea of somewhat who was able to phase in between or as someone else said, sort of like paying attention to one thing as in reading a book while the background of the room is still there but less apparent. SO people who are really good at this could probably flit back and forth between one focus and the other - so say you're bored in line at the grocery store, could you phase out and go explore another planet and then pop back in this reality as quickly as when we look at a magazine cover in line and become lost in the story and then look up quickly when we realize we've been holding up the line because we haven't been "here".
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Trepkos
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2015, 17:48:37 »

Thankfully, objectively verifying your reality is meaningless anyway to WHY you're here in the first place.  Those who are searching for that answer are going to be searching forever and wasting their time.

Nevertheless, one can experience the answer i.e. objectifying reality to a "why". It's just that the process as a result of the "calling" is temporary. It's the way nature works. Even your existence on this planet has a purpose and your purpose is teaching. But this will end, so according to your own words; you're wasting your time, because your use of the terms "those" and "you" and "your" and "their" is just a projection.

It's enlightenment.  The truth of your being.  It's the answer to the question and the question to the answer of "I am".

There are two of you; and one of you is enlightened, i don't doubt that. As long as you use words, you're being inconsistent or asymmetrical, no matter how sound your system may seem. You're standing next to yourself. The question is: "how long before you jump into your shadow ?" It's the same as in one of the first games of prince of Persia, where the hero has the option to fight against his own shadow, who makes the same moves as the hero. The solution is to jump into each other. In a "real" context, this can only be done when out of body.

Everyone has a shadow and has to learn to fuse with it...in this context...we all have the same experience.
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