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Author Topic: Trance Questions  (Read 7869 times)
astralmaster
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« on: August 14, 2002, 07:56:12 »

This is one of the most common questions: I suggest that you conduct a search with the search function and read all the answers. Good luck...



David
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Shayde
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2002, 20:00:46 »




Thank you. I apprechiate your help. =)



To many stars, not enough sky.
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2002, 20:00:46 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Windameir
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2002, 04:38:47 »

I have a lot of trouble keepin my mind quiet too but heres a little thing to start on just to get an Idea what a quiet mind is like...for example go outside and  stand absolutely still or lay down in bed if you like then  take a breath and hold it while you  listen intently without breathing ...it seems when I begin to breathe again My mind begins to chatter again  I think the trick is to hold the silence longer and longer while softly breathing.
anyway give it a shot. [smiley]

Happy Travels
Windameir

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Frank
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2002, 09:33:08 »

I read quite a bit on this BBS about keeping a quiet mind and I always wondered exactly what people meant because, when I am preparing to project, my mind is far from empty.

After reading your post, Shayde, the thought occured to me that maybe beginners were getting the wrong idea thinking that their minds had to be completely void of anything prior to projection.

The beginning phase of projection is all about using your imagination.

Of course, what you have to be completely devoid of is surface thoughts of the kind that generally come across in a verbal way, in your mind. Like, if you read to yourself, there is an inner voice that reads the words to you. Those kinds of thoughts are a bar to projecting.

Igniting the projection reflex involves getting your focal point of awareness up to the top of your head. The place where it needs to be is where your imagination resides. Think about eating your favourite food. At the same time, try and sense *where* in your mind that imagining is happening. Because where that imagining is going on, is exactly where you need your focal point of awareness to be.

In other words, what you need to do is to step into the realms of your imagination, but do it in a controlled way.

I often feel that people don't realise just how close the Astral is to ordinary consciousness. I was quite surprised to find out just how close it is. The Astral actually begins fractionally beyond the border of your imagination, and there is a thin buffer-zone that separates the two. My theory is that, in completely enlightened incarnates, this buffer zone no-longer exists.  

An effective way of getting your focal point of awareness to the right place, is through use of meta-physical imagery. One concept involves imagining you are stepping through a mental doorway. Another involves imagining climbing a rope. Others involve imagining symbols and entering through them, etc. Basically, it doesn't matter what you imagine provided it is stable enough. In the sense that you don't want to be flitting from image to image as this will dull your concentration. Then again, there may well be people for whom having multi-images works best.

The point is, you can basically use whatever imagery you like, provided it serves the purpose of getting your focal point of awareness to the place in your mind where your imagination resides.

One thing I found, though, is that if you try and imagine just one still image it can get rather boring. To get around this, you need to make the image do something fairly simple like turn around, or swing from side to side or whatever. Have just enough of a movement to keep it interesting, that's all. Otherwise you may start to indulge in the mental act of creative visualisation, rather than Astral projection.

As your focal point of awareness rises (it does so quite quickly) you will simply lose all sensation of the physical. So you don't have to pay any attention to the physical body accept to make sure it is comfortable and will remain so for the duration of your projection. Just take a few deep breaths, lie back and relax. Or sit back, whichever you prefer.

Yours,
Frank


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jilola
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2002, 15:26:23 »

Without an actual OBE under my belt I still feel I can agree with Frank on the empty mind thing.
I've had several vision type things recently that have been absolutely lifelike but not in plain sight of where I was at the time. Also (and this is based in a feeling) they haven't been dreams as my dream have a distinct flavour if you will.
All these occasions I dont think my state could be classified as being in a trance and although the active surface mind was fairly quiet I was still pondering my state and the goal and l clearly quite commented to myself on the visions (I'd like to say remote views but I'm not sure).
Common to these experiences was that the part of me that was active did feel like it was located fairly high in my head area, brow level or above.

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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2002, 15:26:23 »



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Avix
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2002, 17:56:45 »

Frank,

   Your posts are always very informative.  Thanks for posting!!  I know alot of us appreciate your input.

-Alex

 
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Shayde
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2002, 00:33:29 »



Thank you all, you have been very helpful. Especially you Frank. I will try what you mentioned tonight. *try* I will post results, if I have any. I hope I will.





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James S
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2002, 02:45:49 »

Frank, I'd like to add my thanks also to the last two. That was a really useful bit of info there.

The quiet mind aspect is good.  I tend to get a lot of useless distracting stray thoughts and images at this point. Maybe instead of trying to completely remove these images from my mind I should let my mind be actively replacing them with ones that will help me to project.

James S
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Frank
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2002, 09:25:06 »



Another aspect some may find helpful is that *belief* plays a major part in projection. Plus, there is a massive *doubt* aspect that puts a big spoke in the works.

Could I please reiterate what I said in my previous post, that the Astral is very much closer to you than perhaps you realise. As I say, I was quite shocked to discover just how close the Astral is to ordinary consciousness.

When I say ordinary consciousness, what I mean is, if you look within your mind, you become aware of different levels of consciousness.

I think of human consciousness as if it were contained within a cone. The base level, where the diameter is the greatest, is where all the ordinary thoughts whirl around. The day-to-day clutter that mainly comes across in a verbal way. Analyse these thoughts and you will see they are all to do with the Physical in some way, shape or form.

When we relax our physical-bodies and visualise letting go of the Physical, what happens is our focal point of awareness steadily moves higher up the cone. As such, our thoughts get progressively more contained, and become more visual and more abstract. At the very top of the cone there is the opening to the Astral.

When I say more *abstract* what I mean is the higher up in terms of consciousness you go, whatever it is you are imagining relates progressively less and less to the physical, material world. This happens because you are progressively getting closer to the Astral and moving away from the Physical. (There eventually comes a stage where you lose all sensation of the Physical completely.)

This is why imagination plays a big part: thought is a primary energy; which means that the act of concentrating and imagining a desired result (i.e. Astral contact) will ultimately cause that desired contact to come about.

However, if our focal point of awareness is at the base of the cone, any specific thought-pattern that is released quickly becomes diluted by the huge mass of other thought energy all whirling all over the place. Which means the pattern just scatters into nothingness. Which is why we must first clear our minds before creating the thought-form or pattern we desire.

In letting go of all thoughts to do with the Physical realm, we move our focal point of awareness higher up the cone. What Monroe suggests you do is to visualise a large box. You "raise the heavy lid" and in it you place all your Physical worries, concerns, etc., etc. Then you close the lid and walk away. (Something which I found very effective.)

Once you get higher up the cone, any thought pattern that is created and released stands a far better chance of bringing on the desired effect (Astral contact). Because, 1) there isn't the huge mass of other thought energy to dilute it... and, 2) you are closer to the Astral opening and the walls of the cone are very much narrower.

Therefore, the chances of having that thought-form reach the Astral and still make some kind of sense, is altogether much higher.

Belief plays a large part in this process.

That is because belief primarily affects your expectations. Which, in turn, focuses your intent. The major spoke that can get in the works here, is doubt. Any kind of doubt will affect your beliefs and expectations in a very negative way.

Because I have experienced controlled Astral projection many times, each time I come to project I expect to project which focuses my *intention* to project. This, in turn, creates the requisite thought-pattern of projection. Which, ultimately, causes the actual projection to come about.

So I say to anyone who has been trying to project without success. Take a step back and analyse your beliefs about the whole process, and dig out any doubts that might be lurking in your mind.

Yours,
Frank

Oh, and thank you for your kind comments.




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Shayde
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2002, 18:12:34 »


Frank, your meathod of visualizing climbing a robe, or some thing (I used a latter) worked. I felt myself instantly move to a higher mode of thinking, but of course, I got excited and my metal voice started to chatter and I lost it. I think with more practice, and the more I get use to it the easier it will be for me to traverse. (I was surprised to see that I when I opened my eyes 45 minutes had passed since when I began.)



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Frank
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2002, 07:12:25 »




Sounds like you are already getting the hang of it. Perhaps I ought to mention the idea of climbing a rope is not mine. It came from Robert Bruce, the host of this BBS.

(I don't want him thinking I'm nabbing his methods as, next time I project to Focus 27, he'll be sending the boys round to have a word. [grin] )

Fear and excitement scupper the process, but all you have to do is go back to basic physical consciousness (C1) and start again. This can seem a bit negative, but it does bring about some very positive effects as, the more you keep going to and fro, the easier it becomes.

Yours,
Frank





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Tisha
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2002, 12:57:21 »

Hey Frank!  Have you read Carlos Castenada's The Art of Dreaming . . . or was is Florinda Donner's Being-in-Dreaming?  Aw heck, it all flows together. I just finished one and have started the other.
 
That "cone" description is in the Being-In-Dreaming book . . .  if you just made up that imagery by yourself you are right on target . . . for a man, that is!  For women, the cone is upside down, like a funnel.  Yup, the Astral can dump itself right into a woman's mind, so all she has to do is open up.  A man, however, must strive up to the "point" of the cone to get to the astral.  At least, that's how it is described by the sorcerer in this book.  

The part about the Otherworld being so near is SOOOOOO true.  This same point came to me once, several years ago in a visionary state.  I had enough of my wits about me to challenge the idea, i.e.,   "You mean I just GO there, twink, like THAT?  Are you kidding?"  But it really is that close and it really is that easy once you do the HARD part . . . which is reprogramming your mind away from society's brainwashing . . . the brainwashing that tells you that there is no such thing as an Otherworld.

Whew!  And I almost went There again last night, several times, but I got too excited.  Dang.


Tisha

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Frank
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2002, 15:12:29 »



Thank you for that info, Tisha, much appreciated.

I admit to not being all that well read Astral Projection-wise. The meta-physical imagery was placed in mind some time ago from a guide. Fact is, so very little of what I know has been worked out entirely by myself. Usually, all they leave me to do is fill in a few blanks. Smiley

It's like with my trying to learn how to navigate to specific areas. I was determined to work it out myself. But this morning I stood within the Astral and formally conceded defeat. Now I'm on the lookout for a guide who will teach me the ropes. But they want me to do some soul-retrieval as a trade for some juicy info.

What I am finding, more and more, is that going from Physical awareness to Astral awareness is simply a question of focus. In the sense that wherever you place your focal point of awareness, that place automatically becomes your reality. As you know, I tend to follow the Monroe ideology and I mulled over for ages about what he meant by the word Focus.

Yes, he is describing the various states, but why that specific word: Focus?

Then I realised that that is how it must have felt like to him. In that he focused his attention on that particular state and such became his reality. Then, for about a week, I was sore from the kicking I gave myself for not realising that I use the phrase "focal point of awareness" all the time!

Monroe's term Focus is the same thing as my phrase "focal point of awareness". Then came realisation that I was thinking about Focus 10 as some kind of feeling that came about from some physical-body process, and it's not that at all.

Focus 10 exists as an independent reality, it's not just a set of feelings that I create. Not only that, I found by using the meta-physical imagery suggested on the CD, I can simply project my focal point of awareness directly into the realm of Focus 10. (Rather than thinking about allowing it to rise to the top of my head and so forth.) As such, Focus 10 instantly becomes my reality.

The exciting news is, theoretically, it should be the same with *any* Focus level.

Yours,
Frank






   




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jilola
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2002, 17:08:13 »

Tisha: The cone idea must be from Florinda Donner's book as I also just fiished Art of Dreaming and there wasn't any mention that I noticed.

The focal point and the idea that by focusing on a certain point makes the astral come into view is pretty much what the concept of moving the assemblage point means in the Art of Dreaming.

2cents

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Tom
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2002, 17:56:36 »

Last night going into trance was unusually easy. After doing a bit of relaxing and slowing the thoughts by focussing on the breathing, I began sending energy to several people. After doing this for a while, I was bringing in energy and sending it to several people all at once. If I had been keeping the energy for myself it would not have been possible to pull in so much energy so quickly. After doing this for a while, I switched to relaxing and slowing thoughts again. The trance state was much easier than usual to create, and the projection technique (rope) caused stronger sensations of movement than usual. The rope technique only rarely gets an response strong enough to feel like physical motion. It got away from me in my surprise, like always. Like always, that broke my concentration. The only down side was that with all the extra energy it took a couple of hours to get to sleep.


 
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Shayde
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2002, 18:41:20 »

quote:

For women, the cone is upside down, like a funnel. Yup, the Astral can dump itself right into a woman's mind, so all she has to do is open up.


 






So, explain to me what is the best way of opening up? *Grins* (It sems that I was taking the male's approach.)








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Tom
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2002, 18:54:32 »

From yoga, I read that the bodies alternate. Physical, etheric, astral, mental, and higher. Why bother learning the names before I can do astral projection? I read that if the physical body is female then the etheric body is male, the astral is female, the mental is male, and so on. At some point it stops alternating and it does not matter which of the lower bodies are which. If the physical body happens to be male, the astral will be also while the etheric and mental are female. I read this mainly from books by Osho, if that makes a difference. He doesn't have a very good reputation. Kundalini yoga teachers seem to feel that women are more powerful than men by nature (16x). Recently I read that in women the kundalini is naturally active to some extent from birth onward while all men must struggle to activate theirs. I don't know what to believe, but it does seem that everyone is saying that women have natural advantages over men. Diane Stein (author of "Essential Reiki") goes a bit overboard with the idea. She seems to think that men who have spiritual aspirations are about as rare as a dog who can read and write human language, however badly.


 
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Tisha
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2002, 23:22:35 »

In my tradition (northern european shamanism, i.e., "witchcraft"), women are considered "naturals" due to their intuitive, "lunar" nature.  Growing in "power" is as simple as becoming more and more receptive, clearing away the debris that gets in the way of clear, extraordinary perception.  It is NOT about ceremonial magick or ritual, contrary to popular opinion.

HOWEVER.  Shayde, despite my 20+ years of witchiness I still can't even pretend to be an expert at OBE; I'm only just learning the mechanics myself.  All I can suggest is that you do what I've been doing:  Following the "As Above, So Below" axiom.  Any highfalutin' cosmic concept should be brought down to Earth and worked there during your day-to-day to the GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE.  Such as, clearing up the "garbage" in your mind and in your physical life, and doing everything you can to open yourself up (given reasonable precautions) to the energies around you.  There are SO many ways you can do this, everything from housekeeping rituals to taking a dump . . . I'm not kidding!  GET CREATIVE!

Carlos Castenada's books are good, but they are written for men.  Women need to look at other things.  Florinda Donner's book, Being-In-Dreaming is a good primer for aspiring femal Astral Travelers.  So is Taisha Abelar's book, Sorcerer's Crossing.  For giggles and enjoyment, try Francesca Di Grandis' book "Be a Goddess!"  Even if you aren't into the Goddess concept it has SO many ideas about things you, as a woman, can do every day to develop yourself.

One more thing:  Any woman who's day-to-day consists of taking care of OTHER people 24-7 is going to have a real hard time with her magickal development.  Because at the end of the day, there will be no energy left for YOU.  Part of your development might involve setting some serious boundaries around your personal time, so you can have the energy you need to meditate and OBE.

Tisha

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Frank
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2002, 07:55:58 »

quote:

Any highfalutin' cosmic concept should be brought down to Earth and worked there during your day-to-day to the GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE. Such as, clearing up the "garbage" in your mind and in your physical life, and doing everything you can to open yourself up (given reasonable precautions) to the energies around you. There are SO many ways you can do this, everything from housekeeping rituals to taking a dump . . . I'm not kidding! GET CREATIVE!




Yes, Tisha has it absolutely right, there. Though, personally, I would swap the phrase, "energies around you," to "energies within you". But that's probably just a matter of personal viewpoint.

Yours,
Frank






 
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James S
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2002, 12:01:24 »

I think the personal viewpoint you mentioned Frank depends a lot on where you're at energy wise. Right now for me "energies around you" is more appropriate. I need to build up what's in me by drawing in what's around me.

My avatar/guide (she'll really start going off at me soon unless I get my conventions of reference a little more in order) pointed out to me the other day how much we can take in of the energy around us just by simple little acts like noticing something nice and feeling happy about it, or actually going out of your way (state of mind-wise) to see the good in something. "Raising your spirits" in this way works in more than one sense of the phrase.

Is that something of the day-to-day sense you were thinking of Tisha?
Now I understand your signature better. It's a nice way of looking at it.

The upside down cone for women thing makes sense also, especially if you reference this with Dr Grey's writings (Venus - Mars books). As a fundamental of male/female psychology, where men increase their perception by focussing their mind, women do so by expanding theirs. As this is a pretty fundamental mind state concept, it makes sense that it would also be applied to trance / astral mind states.

WOW!!!  That's actually a pretty HUGE thing! I think that's what Tom was getting at regarding women and Kundalini. If women expand their perception the closer they get to the astral.....
You're right Tisha, women could be VERY powerful in this respect (powerful mightn't be the best word to use here but I can't think of a better one right now).

James S

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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2002, 13:40:22 »

yup . . . yup . . . everyone is "getting it" . . . http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>
 
Frank:  Energies inside . . . energies outside . . . I've discovered they are the same energies!  The Holographic Universe!  Zounds!


Tisha

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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2002, 14:47:46 »

Now that I'm thinking about it . . . those of us in a position to give advice on this forum might want to qualify it by:

a) letting people know their gender; and
b) checking out whether or not the ideas might apply differently to someone of a different gender

I wonder how things might apply to a Hermaphrodite?  HM!

In Casteneda's "The Art of Dreaming" there is a part where the sorcerer Don Juan is telling a story about two other sorcerers who were taken away (against their will) into the World of Inorganic Beings.  He mentioned that the Universe is primarily "female" in nature, and that "male" (human?) Awareness is so rare that it is coveted by other beings when they encounter it.  

Interesting!


Tisha

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« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2002, 07:33:30 »




Forgive me for being so blunt, but I consider all that male/female stuff mere Astral anthropomorphism. Then again, the mystical side of things turns me off completely. Funny that I've lived in northern Europe all my life, but I still wouldn't know a Shaman from a hole in the ground.

To me, much of it was created by people who, through various ages, travelled to the Belief-System territories (Monroe's Focus 24, 25 & 26) without fully realising the ground rules. Or, they projected into the base-level Astral - taking all their negative emotional baggage and other such mental kak with them - then came back and wrote about how scary it was. Smiley
 
But things move on.

Even Monroe, in one of his later works, talks about how he misunderstood certain aspects of the Astral that he wrote about in his first book. Though, naturally, I don't want to come across like I'm wanting to cut a swathe through people's heart-felt beliefs: I'm merely presenting my opinion.

Nowadays, you cannot escape the fact that Focus 27 is rapidly becoming the "in" place to go. Especially with the youngsters. They are even creating their own nightclubs out there! Complete with fantastic sound-systems and exotic cocktails, and so forth.

I reckon that, as awareness of the "afterlife" increases amongst the young, the population of the Belief System areas will gradually decline. And so too will the numbers of people who get trapped in emotional loops on the base level.

Yep, I forecast some major positive changes in the Astral structure over the next hundred years or so.

Yours,
Frank





 
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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2002, 07:53:24 »

Trying to keep along the lines of the trance question, are monroe's different focus levels reached at different levels of trance, or is it a case of "one trance fits all" ?! I think its the latter, but i'm not sure.

Are there really nightclubs and cocktails in focus 27 ? more importantly, are they charging extortionate prices like in London ! The way I read Frank's comments brings me to believe that there is a massive global sub-culture of people who can project at will to "focus 27".....


 
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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2002, 09:19:30 »




I would say that It's nothing really to do with "trance". But, the problem is, I never really understood what that word meant in relation to Astral Projection. To me, a trance is what a stage hypnotist would put a person in. Then suggest that person do all kinds of wacky things in order to amuse the audience.

With the help of guides, I am rapidly getting through to the core issues.

The past few weeks I have been taught that Astral travel  is simply to do with where you direct your focal point of awareness. By definition, you can only have one focal point of awarness and, where that focal point lies, instantly becomes your reality.

Before, I would speak about allowing your focal point of awareness to rise to the top of your head. Now I have since learnt that I can simply project my focal point of awareness directly into Focus 10. As such, the Focus 10 state instantly becomes my reality and, at the same time, all sensation of the Physical falls away.

Okay, I admit to not being able to do this every time I try. But it's getting easier by the day.

Focus 27 exploration is fairly new to me. Although I do recognise that I have been there many times without realising where I was. Going there with a guide makes it so much clearer.

Focus 27 is also called the true afterlife region. This is a vast area of the Astral where all kinds of people are involved in all manner of things. In this region you can basically do whatever you like. Well, there's one basic rule that no-one can impose their will against another. But who would want to, as there is no lack of anything. Absolutely anything and everything is in abundant supply.

People die at all ages and not all of them get stuck in emotional loops at the base-level, or in the Belief-System regions. As I say, in Focus 27 you are free to create and/or do whatever it is you like. It's only natural, therefore, for younger people to want to create a few nightclubs and bars.

Yours,
Frank






 
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