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Author Topic: Whats and whys of astral restrictions  (Read 1845 times)
ThaomasOfGrey
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« on: October 26, 2016, 00:01:43 »

The purpose of this topic is to discuss a potential misinterpretation of our capabilities in NPR.

Here is what I have come to believe should be possible: Enter my personal "safe zone" - look into the sky and perceive a phenomenal cosmos, like seeing the PMR stars with a telescope via the naked eye. Fly around and blow up mountains with energy blasts. Experience the plot of a favourite book from a first person perspective. Construct a temple on fractal principles that dwarfs any earthly construction to a laughable extent.

What I find is actually possible: Become aware in a pseudo-random scenario. Clarity of mind feels crystal clear. Knowledge of the current experience being NPR is at an all time high. Spend what seems like an hour wandering within the scenario. Wrack my brain trying to figure out my original intent (the above experience prototype). Suffer complete and utter amnesia when it comes to anything beyond the current scenario.

----

What does it take to be able to exercise free will in the NPR?

I thought that the problem was lack of awareness - that doesn't seem to fit due to the impenetrable amnesia. I thought the problem might be a banning of bad intentions - I can make destructive choices within the scenario, but as soon as I try I get smoke screened and the scenario fades away until I stop that intent.

It seems reasonable to draw the conclusion that negative intent is banned. I can possibly understand why, but it is shaky ground. Positive intent is also banned. I don't understand why.

Furthermore, something about my being in NPR is wrong, it doesn't feel like me. I have read that in NPR we assume our higher consciousness personality, to me it feels the opposite. My quality of consciousness is severely reduced, as is my ability to make good decisions and seek growth.

If I had to put my finger on the problem - my intellect has been entirely removed. I thought this problem could be bypassed with conscious projection, but I am not convinced that works either.

I see value to the experiences I am having, but I cannot see how they are not a tragic waste of potential because the gains are so minuscule compared to even a fraction of my imagination.

----

TLDR; Have I been misled to believe that the type of experience I imagine is achievable? Why does my time in NPR feel like a tremendous waste of potential?
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Lumaza
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2016, 02:14:47 »

The purpose of this topic is to discuss a potential misinterpretation of our capabilities in NPR.

Here is what I have come to believe should be possible: Enter my personal "safe zone" - look into the sky and perceive a phenomenal cosmos, like seeing the PMR stars with a telescope via the naked eye. Fly around and blow up mountains with energy blasts. Experience the plot of a favourite book from a first person perspective. Construct a temple on fractal principles that dwarfs any earthly construction to a laughable extent.

What I find is actually possible: Become aware in a pseudo-random scenario. Clarity of mind feels crystal clear. Knowledge of the current experience being NPR is at an all time high. Spend what seems like an hour wandering within the scenario. Wrack my brain trying to figure out my original intent (the above experience prototype). Suffer complete and utter amnesia when it comes to anything beyond the current scenario.

----

What does it take to be able to exercise free will in the NPR?

I thought that the problem was lack of awareness - that doesn't seem to fit due to the impenetrable amnesia. I thought the problem might be a banning of bad intentions - I can make destructive choices within the scenario, but as soon as I try I get smoke screened and the scenario fades away until I stop that intent.

It seems reasonable to draw the conclusion that negative intent is banned. I can possibly understand why, but it is shaky ground. Positive intent is also banned. I don't understand why.

Furthermore, something about my being in NPR is wrong, it doesn't feel like me. I have read that in NPR we assume our higher consciousness personality, to me it feels the opposite. My quality of consciousness is severely reduced, as is my ability to make good decisions and seek growth.

If I had to put my finger on the problem - my intellect has been entirely removed. I thought this problem could be bypassed with conscious projection, but I am not convinced that works either.

I see value to the experiences I am having, but I cannot see how they are not a tragic waste of potential because the gains are so minuscule compared to even a fraction of my imagination.

----

TLDR; Have I been misled to believe that the type of experience I imagine is achievable? Why does my time in NPR feel like a tremendous waste of potential?
So many things that can be said about almost every point you made here. But I will try to make sense of this in one explanation.
 When I was new to this practice I was a "eager beaver" as well. I wanted to experience all I had heard about. I had very high expectations. What I found was much different though, at least in the beginning.
 I would set down to practice. I would get confortable, using progressive relaxation and start counting or whatever method I was attempting. I would go through countless signposts and after about a hour to hour and half, I would see my room through my closed eyes, get excited and that was it. I blew it with my excitement.
 The next time I would do all the same "prep" get to the point where I can see though my closed eyes, I would then attempt a full exit as of climbing out of the body, get out walk around and bam, I'm back in again. I was thinking "man this is hard" and that this isn't what I expected.
 I then read all of Frank's posts and began the Art of "Noticing/Phasing". This actually brought me deeper, but again my excitement would knock me right back to square one again. This was getting very frustrating.
 Then I was doing a Phase session and my Guide showed itself for the first time. It was in the form of my deceased brother in law and he taught me the importance of losing all expectations and just observing. I became a great Pupil of this discipline and so I passively observed everything. The more I allowed things to progress, the more they did. I experienced flying, going through the cosmos, other realms that mirrored this one and some that didn't. I was given countless tests, quests and challenges to come up with my answers. I was even shown some very technical and amazing things that I couldn't even fathom with my physical mindset. That's when I was shown the importance of releasing that physical mindset so I could see "other".

 Next came the nightly onset of my LDs. In these I found myself normally in some kind of reality that mirrored this, but for some reason, when I became consciously aware in these, the XXXX was just about to hit the fan, cueing the new test, quest or challenge. My NP personality was quite different from my current one and seemed to always get itself into very trying situations. It was also extremely "lustful" at first. So I had to learn to reign that in, otherwise I wasn't going to see anything except for a lust filled scenario.
 Many times from a spontaneous OBE I found myself almost immediately in a lustful situation. I just used what I was taught in my LDs to bypass that and seek a different area of exploration. My "higher self" knew what it took to trigger my consciousness and used it to it's advantage. Many times we see things like this as negatives. Our "higher self personality" can use anything it wishes to it's disposal. It can be anything it wishes to achieve the desired action, purpose or message. It's the same way that we can be anything or anyone we need to be to help someone during a "Retrieval".

 What I am trying to tell and show you here is there is indeed a "progression" to this whole thing in general. Yes you can use your intent and experience incredible things like flying through the mountains or even Nebulas. Blowing up mountains is not allowed though, lol. Unless of course you begin with that as a total imaginary visual. There are some rules that need to be followed and you will soon know what is and isn't excepted. I try to respect any realm I find myself in the same way I respect this current one. It's the same with the people/Others I meet there as well. You have free will over "your" own actions as long as they don't interfere with the current ruleset in the areas you find yourself in.

 Every night when I go to sleep I use the same affirmation, I ask to be "shown what I need to see and taught what I need to learn". I then trust and allow what's gong to happen to happen.

 In closing. You haven't been misled, you just need to learn to walk before you can run! Open yourself to all and in time you will be shown it!  wink
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2016, 02:14:47 »

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luffy28
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2016, 06:51:55 »

Lumaza were there any other readings (like for me I'm currently reading Robert Bruce's treatises on ap) like books etc... that helped you reach the ap / obe state?

Just asking.

Thanks.
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EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 07:46:34 »

A typically excellent reply from Lumaza that offers insights on several levels which should resonate with different people, in different ways...a key aspect of its' function.

I will try and add a few variations, based on my experience.

First off, Thaomas, you point out some significant insights from your own experience which I think may be recognizable to many "experiencers"; so thank you for some excellent questions.

There is the separation between what you think SHOULD BE possible versus what actually IS possible in the NPR. I went through this process and it was a new understanding of how my expectations needed to change.

When I was a child, I was able to fly around the neighborhood, into the Earth and through it, even out into the stars...but not all my excursions were "free-will". I got put into tests of various sorts. I didn't always recognize it at the time, but I do now.

My understanding now is that once you learn to shift your Focus, to Phase or go OBE...they let you play around for awhile, but then you are put into a lesson-plan, literally into "school"...you are limited in your exercise of your will/intent, and expected to pay close attention to your immediate environment and understand the lesson it is trying to teach you. And when you are missing the point of the lesson, it gets foggy and you get kicked out; experience over.

At this point, negative intent is definitely banned; you want to destroy things?...nope, not allowed.

They/your Higher Self/whomever, return you to square one...you have to figure out simple things like Where am I?, How would I leave this place? What is up/ what is down? Then you get some tests on your emotions, beginning with the best of all...lust/sex. It can be very frustrating getting caught and stalled out at various points along the way; it certainly was for me. Sometimes it was just stupidly simple what the issue was...and I was angry over not being given better hints at the solution. But I will say this: the hints will be there, and those hints figure very distinctly within your psyche; so it is up to you to figure out.

The lack of awareness/the lack of intellect is still something I am coming to terms with; a topic I wanted to open discussion on, all by itself. Part of the "subdued awareness" is a condition the instructors force upon us in order to observe our instinctive nature in responding to a situation; I have encountered this several times, although I mostly don't recognize it at the time. It took advice and hints from both Szaxx and Lumaza to get me to think about this and the further ramifications...

The lack of intellect may also indicate the actual awareness that will be available to us when we transition/die. If that is the case, then I have serious concerns; and therefore wonder at the possibly supreme importance of doing as much as we can while still in PR, in developing our individual NPR mindset/personality.

Maybe something to think about...

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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 08:25:14 »

Lumaza were there any other readings (like for me I'm currently reading Robert Bruce's treatises on ap) like books etc... that helped you reach the ap / obe state?

Just asking.

Thanks.
To tell you the truth Luffy, the more I read, the harder this got to do. I drenched myself and absorbed every bit of info I could find on the this subject and that led to a number of failed attempts.
 In the end what worked is when I went back to square on and found what had worked before. I knew that the "candle burning" technique worked. So I made my own variance on that. That led to doing daily etheric exercise and those exercises taught me how to maneuver in whatever area I found myself in.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 08:40:41 by Lumaza » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 08:25:14 »



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Lumaza
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 08:32:34 »

The lack of intellect may also indicate the actual awareness that will be available to us when we transition/die. If that is the case, then I have serious concerns; and therefore wonder at the possibly supreme importance of doing as much as we can while still in PR, in developing our individual NPR mindset/personality.

Maybe something to think about...
That whole reply was excellent EV. I wish we could award Gold Stars here!  smiley

 I quoted the section above because what you said about preparedness for the afterlife and is exactly what William Buhlman discusses as vitally important in his videos and seminars. He is even part of or is responsible for creating the "Lifeline" program over at the Monroe Institute to help people do just that. He mentions often how the Monks will prepare the Dalai Lama when he is ready to transition by chanting for days on end before he passes.
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To be successful with Astral Projection/Non Physical Exploration, your will to succeed must be much stronger than your acceptance of failure!
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 10:28:24 »

Thanks for the great responses. Really valuable stuff here.

Lumaza, you have explained this to me once before already, but I suppose it didn't sink in. I was still running under the impression that the kinds of things I imagined I could do should be easy and would become available if I tried a bit harder. Sitting here and imaging it now, it still seems so easy, easier than baby steps.

Maybe it is in fact easier. I have had the intuition for some time now that I am deliberately blocked from these experiences one way or another, and I now I am quite confident this is the case. I never believed that we would be so constrained, I have always been a rebellious and tenacious type, as you can probably tell by the way I post.

Looks like I will be forced to learn some more things. The MBT trilogy has been extremely helpful in this regard - I would highly recommend it. Even though it doesn't directly pertain to OBE instructions, it is very valuable in developing the mindset and understanding, so much more so than all of the other AP books I have read. Perhaps this piece of information was for you, luffy28.

EV, what you have described matches my experience to a tee. It is so fascinating.

This idea about removal of intellect and the death transition particularly rings with me, I stumbled upon a similar topic else where in this forum, I have been pondering it since, and here it is again.

I also have concerns about this discovery, but something is not quite right here, there may be a missing piece to the understanding. Here is my issue, what we have discussed here is very much a passive and accepting approach, but it isn't necessarily my common approach, nor is it the only approach in my opinion. Evolution of consciousness is also an active approach, is it not?

Intellect is part of the driving force of decision making that leads to growth. I can understand the learning opportunity afforded to temporary restriction of intellect, but permanent discarding is a loss of knowledge and energy potential that makes little sense to me.

I thought that in NPR we would be less restricted. In PMR I can throw my life away and make all of the bad choices I want to. We are so closely governed and limited in NPR as to not sully an experience that is well within our control to sully. Bizarre paradox.

The funny thing is that this kind of government and restriction is the mystical part of AP that the general audience just can't grasp. When you try to explain this part of why we cannot just perform a validation or have any fantasy experience we like, it would trip the BS meter. Perhaps I can now see why this area has not yielded wide spread interest. The golden ticket has some serious catches, not quite the chocolate factory that you see on AP documentaries such as "The Phase" is it.

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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 12:05:46 »

The funny thing is that this kind of government and restriction is the mystical part of AP that the general audience just can't grasp. When you try to explain this part of why we cannot just perform a validation or have any fantasy experience we like, it would trip the BS meter. Perhaps I can now see why this area has not yielded wide spread interest. The golden ticket has some serious catches, not quite the chocolate factory that you see on AP documentaries such as "The Phase" is it.
General audience?

 If all you wish out of this practice is to have a Fantasy outing or experience, then your intent will make this come true. But if your intent is to delve deeper into this, then you will have to undergo the "learning curve" that is part of that process as well. A Fantasy outing is much different then years of constant consciously aware explorations and adventures..

 What's does it take to make a Pro Football player? You need to know the game. You have to be physically able for the task. You have to be mentally strong. You need skill and to know and abide by the rules and lastly you have know how to take directions and follow those directions. Anyone can toss the ball around and it doesn't take much to join a high school football team. That doesn't make you a Pro player though.

 In this current physical realm of ours, thought = action only when it comes to immediate physical movement. In the other realms there is no need to travel, just a thought and you are there. Thought=action occurs there instantly with nearly everything. If you can't control those thoughts, think of all the damage you could do. Thus the need for a "structure".

 Your self initiated block could be in place because you are still having such a hard time understanding this. You need to lose the constant analytical mindset for a while and just go exploring. Take the pressure off yourself and see what you see. There is plenty of time to question it later. Get some experience under your belt. Keep an open mind and you will see and learn anew.

 Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory awaits!  grin
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 12:29:08 »

For me when I become lucid or more aware of the NPR the reality seems to become a bit more stable and logical and more restricting than it would in a normal dream with low consciousness where it seems almost anything can happen.

This leads me to think by having a sorta low level a consciousness and a strong intent it would be easier to create anything you want without the PR logic interfering with the NPR.

I think if I could learn how to phase in and out of low and high awareness at will within the NPR I think almost anything could be possible.


On a side note what if because we are locked into such a high awareness in the PR that is what makes this reality very logical reasonable and almost unquestionable to only our observable senses. I mean in a low level of consciousness we don't question the wackiest things we just experience it without a doubt of it's own existence.


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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 13:44:08 »

By general audience I mean the people that upon the mention of other realities or OBE look bored and ask "what's the point". The most immediate motivation is always ego fantasies - virtual reality come today but more realistic.

I do not place myself in this category at all. I became interested in projection in a quest for truth and hungry curiosity. I was really hooked by Frank's description of the existence of tiers of reality.

Pro football is my end game, but I also came in with a scientific mindset and plans for many experiments and fantasies that I had forgotten until now. I don't think of these fantasies as ego based, rather they are a life's collection of things I love. They will have to wait. My growth demands it, or so it seems.
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 21:28:06 »


I also have concerns about this discovery, but something is not quite right here, there may be a missing piece to the understanding. Here is my issue, what we have discussed here is very much a passive and accepting approach, but it isn't necessarily my common approach, nor is it the only approach in my opinion. Evolution of consciousness is also an active approach, is it not?

Intellect is part of the driving force of decision making that leads to growth. I can understand the learning opportunity afforded to temporary restriction of intellect, but permanent discarding is a loss of knowledge and energy potential that makes little sense to me.

I thought that in NPR we would be less restricted. In PMR I can throw my life away and make all of the bad choices I want to. We are so closely governed and limited in NPR as to not sully an experience that is well within our control to sully. Bizarre paradox.

The funny thing is that this kind of government and restriction is the mystical part of AP that the general audience just can't grasp. When you try to explain this part of why we cannot just perform a validation or have any fantasy experience we like, it would trip the BS meter. Perhaps I can now see why this area has not yielded wide spread interest. The golden ticket has some serious catches, not quite the chocolate factory that you see on AP documentaries such as "The Phase" is it.

Thaomas I'd like to thank you for this discussion. I also resonate very closely to EV whose experiences mirror my own. Here are my thoughts and what I have learned regarding your quoted text above.

From my experience there is a lot that happens in the NP that is training and although I keep hearing it said that it's about learning how to transition between this physical life and what's next. I know that is only a portion of what is going on. Expand that to include it being about how many others you can take with you after you do transition. If you have heard of the bottleneck that is the area WE are calling the NP (for the most part). It's choke full of people in the NP that have transitioned there and NEED to move on. So yes you need to realize it isn't about fun and games, it's work plain and simple so yes, those areas have rules and often simple observation is all you need do.

On the other hand there are 'playgrounds' so to speak where you can spend your time living out fantasies or just goofing off. I've had a great deal of fun myself and there you can do pretty much anything you want since it is indeed a playground and most of it only exists temporarily in your thoughts but even then like any playground you may have to share and mind a few rules.

You will be pushed so you may as well accept that. But that does not mean you can't have your say. I have often rebelled. I usually lose and wind up doing what I am supposed to do anyway since I know I signed up for this. This is where a HUGE amount of trust comes in. Once you truly realize that 'on the other side' the 'whole you' knows what is going on and has full memory recall you come to know that on this side you are essentially having to operate without a full deck, so you simply must trust that 'that' you did everything right and is now keeping this you on track.

This has been a hard lesson for me as by nature I do my own thing and never much cared to let anyone else control my life. When I finally figured it out it was like a light bulb exploding. I would also like to add that the memory suppression may also be in full or part a side-effect rather than intended.

Know that the reason a lot of people do not get the full experience (or seem to progress) is simply because they are looking at the NP as simply a game. They will progress in time if that becomes their desire. It's just a matter of maturity.

Quote
Furthermore, something about my being in NPR is wrong, it doesn't feel like me. I have read that in NPR we assume our higher consciousness personality, to me it feels the opposite. My quality of consciousness is severely reduced, as is my ability to make good decisions and seek growth.
At times like this try relaxing and simply observing. You will grow.

Once again thanks for this awesome topic. I've enjoyed all the feedback.
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2016, 00:02:30 »

From my experience there is a lot that happens in the NP that is training and although I keep hearing it said that it's about learning how to transition between this physical life and what's next. I know that is only a portion of what is going on. Expand that to include it being about how many others you can take with you after you do transition. If you have heard of the bottleneck that is the area WE are calling the NP (for the most part). It's choke full of people in the NP that have transitioned there and NEED to move on. So yes you need to realize it isn't about fun and games, it's work plain and simple so yes, those areas have rules and often simple observation is all you need do.

Woah, this hadn't really dawned on me. I know that we need to make interactions with each other into a win-win scenario for mutual growth, but getting others out of the physical mindset to transcend death is understated as a difficult mission. It is going to take some special language skills to get that message across, but I am getting there with the few that will give the idea the time of day. I like Campbell's quote that "there is no opting out, and no other game to play".

Quote
This has been a hard lesson for me as by nature I do my own thing and never much cared to let anyone else control my life.

Did you take this phrase out of my mind? I was going to write it in my OP and deleted it. Maybe there is something about this attitude and gravitating here.

Quote
Know that the reason a lot of people do not get the full experience (or seem to progress) is simply because they are looking at the NP as simply a game. They will progress in time if that becomes their desire. It's just a matter of maturity.
At times like this try relaxing and simply observing. You will grow.

Once again thanks for this awesome topic. I've enjoyed all the feedback.

Good advice, stopping the struggle yields instant results. I projected for hours last night, traversed 5 or more scenarios and avoided the usual traps.

I am glad you got something out of this topic. It has been important for me too.

Right before I fell asleep last night I remembered the reason I posted this topic, but that reason could probably become a whole other topic of its own now. I need to stew on it a bit first.
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2016, 00:10:51 »

"...but getting others out of the physical mindset to transcend death is understated as a difficult mission"

I only have a minute but wanted to clarify this. It's not so much getting them out from here to there. It's getting them out of 'there' the NP to further transition. I'll be back later.
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2016, 00:26:26 »

"...but getting others out of the physical mindset to transcend death is understated as a difficult mission"

I only have a minute but wanted to clarify this. It's not so much getting them out from here to there. It's getting them out of 'there' the NP to further transition. I'll be back later.
That's what "Retrievals" are for. Helping others that are stuck in their own NP nightmares.
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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 00:35:55 »

  I projected for hours last night, traversed 5 or more scenarios and avoided the usual traps.
AWESOME!  cool

 Now that's what I call "progress"!  smiley
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2016, 03:07:13 »

On a side note what if because we are locked into such a high awareness in the PR that is what makes this reality very logical reasonable and almost unquestionable to only our observable senses. I mean in a low level of consciousness we don't question the wackiest things we just experience it without a doubt of it's own existence.
Now there's a thought worth pondering.
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2016, 03:15:23 »

Thomas "Did you take this phrase out of my mind? I was going to write it in my OP and deleted it. Maybe there is something about this attitude and gravitating here."

Haha, well we can't be wussies now can we.

Thomas "Good advice, stopping the struggle yields instant results. I projected for hours last night, traversed 5 or more scenarios and avoided the usual traps. Right before I fell asleep last night I remembered the reason I posted this topic, but that reason could probably become a whole other topic of its own now. I need to stew on it a bit first."

I would say that is pretty progressive! Can't wait to see what else is floating around in your head.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 03:19:31 by Nameless » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2016, 03:18:32 »

That's what "Retrievals" are for. Helping others that are stuck in their own NP nightmares.
Exactly, it took me a while to grasp what you and Szaxx were even talking about when I first came here. Once it sunk in I was like oh yeah, duh! LOL.
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« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2016, 01:21:42 »

I explained the observed law of "no evolutionary regressions allowed" in non-physical experiences to my skeptical friend. It did trip the "general audience BS meter" as I predicted and they were quite dubious that we had any evidence of this mechanic. It is all experiential evidence at this point, but consistent experience is also a valid indicator.

They brought up a pretty interesting counter point that I thought was worth sharing here. If we are really banned from regressions in the non-physical, why is it that drug trip reporters on forums similar to these are not limited in the same way.

Dextromethorphan at high doses induces a special and very stable state of mind (I have tried it twice, although at lower doses, myself a few years back). The state is very much like that of the void, but also a dual reality perception that some of us will be familiar with. You can flip between physical and non-physical perception with very little effort and the experience has a strong association with music and fractals.

At the higher doses though, the experience becomes a full blown OBE and people report unlimited debauchery that could surely be considered evolutionary regression by some.

Do the rules only apply to certain people? Or perhaps does drug use brute force the system - it seems strange that the "rules" of the system could be so easily broken from a simple substance within the system.

Similarly with even more powerful psychedelics like DMT, which I have never tried, users report a profound sense of experiencing something "they were not meant to see" yet it happens none the less.

I don't have much interest in pursuing these unnatural states - yet it is intriguing, what is the truth behind these rules.

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« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2016, 01:48:49 »

My word, the dual thought process is like being in the void.
I was thinking while reading the initial posts here and a picture appeared.
A normal everyday person is a tap that's closed. A projector is the same with the tap running water. A beginner is aware the ground the water falls on is a giant sieve. He sees the whole scene and no more. After a few experiences the ground beneath the running water starts to take form. The area is now a foot or so with the water spreading around it. He notices the difference from the first experience as he used to think he'd seen it all.
Each experience passes by and the ground is now a hundred feet all around the tap. Then it hits him, the water he'd seen isn't the objective of the art, it's the ground forming around his experiences that matters. Armed with this new finding,  he proceeds to explore this new land and finds problems in various locations where he needs to think very hard in order to cross and see more. Each time the difficulty is surpassed the land grows ever larger and withnit more difficult problems arise. Smitten by the bug for more knowledge of what's beyond he never falters in these tasks knowing they'll eventually lead him to his destination.

I'll leave it here for now as many of you are at this point.
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« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2016, 03:16:07 »

I explained the observed law of "no evolutionary regressions allowed" in non-physical experiences to my skeptical friend. It did trip the "general audience BS meter" as I predicted and they were quite dubious that we had any evidence of this mechanic. It is all experiential evidence at this point, but consistent experience is also a valid indicator.

They brought up a pretty interesting counter point that I thought was worth sharing here. If we are really banned from regressions in the non-physical, why is it that drug trip reporters on forums similar to these are not limited in the same way.

Dextromethorphan at high doses induces a special and very stable state of mind (I have tried it twice, although at lower doses, myself a few years back). The state is very much like that of the void, but also a dual reality perception that some of us will be familiar with. You can flip between physical and non-physical perception with very little effort and the experience has a strong association with music and fractals.

At the higher doses though, the experience becomes a full blown OBE and people report unlimited debauchery that could surely be considered evolutionary regression by some.

Do the rules only apply to certain people? Or perhaps does drug use brute force the system - it seems strange that the "rules" of the system could be so easily broken from a simple substance within the system.

Similarly with even more powerful psychedelics like DMT, which I have never tried, users report a profound sense of experiencing something "they were not meant to see" yet it happens none the less.

I don't have much interest in pursuing these unnatural states - yet it is intriguing, what is the truth behind these rules.
They must find themselves in a realm where "unlimited Debauchery" is permitted. But you never said whether or not these people were actually going there for a purpose, like example, to help others that were stuck or go there for the sole purpose of learning anew. It seems they just use it as a "play time". A place they go where "everything" goes. Astral Travel doesn't have to be serious. You can still go "out to play". You get out of it, what you put in it. If you go there to be taught anew, than you shall be. But you need to show your commitment to that as well.
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To be successful with Astral Projection/Non Physical Exploration, your will to succeed must be much stronger than your acceptance of failure!
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« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2016, 04:08:31 »

They must find themselves in a realm where "unlimited Debauchery" is permitted. But you never said whether or not these people were actually going there for a purpose, like example, to help others that were stuck or go there for the sole purpose of learning anew. It seems they just use it as a "play time". A place they go where "everything" goes. Astral Travel doesn't have to be serious. You can still go "out to play". You get out of it, what you put in it. If you go there to be taught anew, than you shall be. But you need to show your commitment to that as well.

They definitely set out with the intention of play time, specifically to engage in sexual fantasies from the trip reports that were relayed to me.

So there are places that are unconstrained, even to your own detriment, hypothetically. Does this mean that the restrictions we sometimes experience that "fog out" the reality when we try to apply free will are only a mechanic of that particular experienced reality?

The "fog out" doesn't seem to just prevent certain intentions within the reality, but it also fogs any attempt to transition from that reality into an unconstrained one and thus bypassing the lesson in progress.

Are the "lab staff" deciding that one set of people will be put into non-exitable lessons while another set will default to unconstrained realities. Some people are allowed to regress while others are not.

Is it based on your own subconscious, deepest, core of heart intentions on what experience you truly want? Or perhaps an inconceivable predictor of consequences that rolls the dice and chooses for you.

My friend is a hedonist, non believer in the afterlife who takes life as a short term exercise in maximizing fun and pleasure. Their only interest in lucid dreaming is to fulfill sexual fantasies. For me it is not possible to indulge in this way because it would go against my end game goals - but for others the rules might be different. I think I understand.
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2016, 04:26:26 »

They definitely set out with the intention of play time, specifically to engage in sexual fantasies from the trip reports that were relayed to me.

So there are places that are unconstrained, even to your own detriment, hypothetically. Does this mean that the restrictions we sometimes experience that "fog out" the reality when we try to apply free will are only a mechanic of that particular experienced reality?

The "fog out" doesn't seem to just prevent certain intentions within the reality, but it also fogs any attempt to transition from that reality into an unconstrained one and thus bypassing the lesson in progress.

Are the "lab staff" deciding that one set of people will be put into non-exitable lessons while another set will default to unconstrained realities. Some people are allowed to regress while others are not.

Is it based on your own subconscious, deepest, core of heart intentions on what experience you truly want? Or perhaps an inconceivable predictor of consequences that rolls the dice and chooses for you.

My friend is a hedonist, non believer in the afterlife who takes life as a short term exercise in maximizing fun and pleasure. Their only interest in lucid dreaming is to fulfill sexual fantasies. For me it is not possible to indulge in this way because it would go against my end game goals - but for others the rules might be different. I think I understand.
Every question you asked above, you have answered yourself, lol!

 Yes because the lesson at hand is valuable, you do "stay the course". Whether this is by your Higher selves design or some "other".

 Once again the "Lab staff" might be your Higher self and because of that, it already knows your strengthens and weaknesses. It knows how far you have evolved and what "buttons" to push to not only motivate you, but also how to keep you in the moment.

 EscapeVelocity yesterday, made a new thread in the Dreaming Forum here that spoke of the different levels and characteristics of Dreams. The same goes with any other mode of accessing the "non local states of consciousness". There seems to be different "planes" for different purposes. Robert Monroe really knew what he was talking about when he developed a blueprint of sorts using the "Focus levels" as his designated locales.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 23:21:34 by Lumaza » Logged

Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
                  Albert Einstein

To be successful with Astral Projection/Non Physical Exploration, your will to succeed must be much stronger than your acceptance of failure!
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« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2016, 04:38:39 »

Like has already been stated there are places that exist for the sole purpose of just doing what you want. As Lumaza said you get out what you put in. Your friends are perfectly safe and can't harm anyone, not in the NP anyway.

Lessons come to those who seek or answer the call. One thing I know you can't fool the NP. Intent drives the whole thing, and you can't fool intent.
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You may never have proof of your importance but you are more important than you think. There are always those who couldnít do without you. The rub is that you donít always know who- Robert Fulgham
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