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Author Topic: What's the worst suffering you have seen in the astral?  (Read 10295 times)
Szaxx
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2012, 16:45:20 »

100% agreed!
You have your experiences based on what you are at that time.
These generally are interesting in nature and can share some commonalities.
However they are personal, that means the message within can only be understood fully by the one having the experience.
One with no experiences cannot comment on much.

We have eyes and yet no sight, the light needs to be there.
Learn the art to understand this in detail.
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 17:28:26 »

Also, I'd like to suggest to everyone... when you read posts, try to read them as neutral as possible.  Nobody here is out to get anyone angry by their words.  If you're reading anger in their words, then that anger is probably coming from yourself.

I try to read posts as emotionally neutral as I can make them.  Or even better yet, try to read the posts with a positive flair to them in how someone would vocally say them to you.

This is part of what I was talking about above... you create a lot of your own suffering, this is an extension of that.

BE POSITIVE!  And you'll slowly notice that all around you will be positive as well!  Smiley

Thanks everyone!!  ^_^

And Szaxx, love the quote.  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 19:43:32 by Xanth » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 17:28:26 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 17:59:48 »

Yes, the above is well-said.
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« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 23:39:03 »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion is a much overused and misunderstood 'saying' amongst young people today.

When you say 'In my opinion' or that you are entitled to your own opinion it actually counts for nothing... zip... nada... it means NOTHING.

An opinion is whether you like cheese or think a painting is good... it is not a basis for reality... or your own reality... it is based upon a preference of what you want to belief under your very limited knowledge base and experience.

If you said you in your opinion the sky is blue because god craps blue jellybeans and the photons break up the jelly into reflected and refracted light then your opinion is as it stand a bunch of horse manure.

So your opinion as it stands at your current state of being when it comes to nonphysical is wrong.

I disagree.

Opinion is a wonderful, valuable thing. Opinions are acts of creation, and are based on our world experiences and our knowledge. We constantly learn from the opinions of others. Their opinions help us to perhaps think of things that would never otherwise have occurred to us. But most importantly, when it comes to the NPR, there is ONLY OPINION. No one knows the truth. We might, arrogantly, think that we do, but we do not.

In the physical world, we have facts. Facts are established by the scientific process of repeatability, common experience and verifiability. In the NPR there is no such thing as repeatability, commonality and verifiability. All we know is obtained through our own experience, and since this knowledge can not be verified by others, and can not be proven in any way, or established as FACT, it is by definition, opinion. So all our knowledge of the NPR is just opinion.

So opinion is all we have. Are you saying that you can actually prove your ideas about the NPR?  Because I strongly doubt you can. All you can do is give us your opinion. Same as everyone else, myself included, on this board. Just opinion.
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 01:08:01 »

I don't believe in the existence of karma.  Never have.
I view it as just another rule whereby they threaten you with something 'bad' should you not do something 'good'.
I am pretty sure that is not how karma theory works. In karma theory you can't say if you don't do something good then something bad will happen. It's that if you do good you get good, and if you do bad then you get bad. If you don't do good then you don't sow goodness. If you don't do bad then you don't sow badness. But as you suggest, good and bad are subjective concepts and I agree, but you should still reap what you sow subjective or not. Karma is a general theory of cause and effect not a set in stone rules of exactly the way you will be punished or rewarded, but a general guild-line.

Peace.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 01:09:45 by astralprojectee » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 01:08:01 »



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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2012, 05:21:29 »

The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you.

Think about that for a while.

Ironically, that also applies directly for this physical reality as well as any non-physical reality. 

 


 This forum is just so typical of those who consider themselves part of the "White Robes Brigade".
That is those who on physical, death, will be elevate to some exalted position in the Afterlife, given
their white robes, and be educated into the mysteries of the Universe. Just read Xanth's-Ryan's
comments above! No doubt he's one of them! Past lives, and present life traumas obviously
does not affect him! He resolved them all, and is now a high spiritual being in physical incarnation.

"The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you." Ryans words! So all the worlds greatest
murderers and assholes only have to overrule their emotional feelings about the thousands
or millions they slaughtered, and now they are living in some sort of wonderful bliss according
to your pathetic statements! Adolf Hitler must now be living in some sort of 'Aryan Paradise'',
in the Afterlife if he just thinks so! Ryan! You are a complete fool. Punishment and Karma happens
in the Afterlife, just like it happens in the physical! Get Educated!   

       
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2012, 05:56:58 »

This forum is just so typical of those who consider themselves part of the "White Robes Brigade".
That is those who on physical, death, will be elevate to some exalted position in the Afterlife, given
their white robes, and be educated into the mysteries of the Universe. Just read Xanth's-Ryan's
comments above! No doubt he's one of them! Past lives, and present life traumas obviously
does not affect him! He resolved them all, and is now a high spiritual being in physical incarnation.

"The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you." Ryans words! So all the worlds greatest
murderers and assholes only have to overrule their emotional feelings about the thousands
or millions they slaughtered, and now they are living in some sort of wonderful bliss according
to your pathetic statements! Adolf Hitler must now be living in some sort of 'Aryan Paradise'',
in the Afterlife if he just thinks so! Ryan! You are a complete fool. Punishment and Karma happens
in the Afterlife, just like it happens in the physical! Get Educated!
I don't think I would say he is "part of the "White Robes Brigade"". That seems like of presumptuous. I am sure the white Robes Brigade have a lot of beliefs that Xanth does not have.

Peace.
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2012, 08:06:08 »


 This forum is just so typical of those who consider themselves part of the "White Robes Brigade".
That is those who on physical, death, will be elevate to some exalted position in the Afterlife, given
their white robes, and be educated into the mysteries of the Universe. Just read Xanth's-Ryan's
comments above! No doubt he's one of them! Past lives, and present life traumas obviously
does not affect him! He resolved them all, and is now a high spiritual being in physical incarnation.

"The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you." Ryans words! So all the worlds greatest
murderers and assholes only have to overrule their emotional feelings about the thousands
or millions they slaughtered, and now they are living in some sort of wonderful bliss according
to your pathetic statements! Adolf Hitler must now be living in some sort of 'Aryan Paradise'',
in the Afterlife if he just thinks so! Ryan! You are a complete fool. Punishment and Karma happens
in the Afterlife, just like it happens in the physical! Get Educated!   

Naah... Ryan's nothing like that in the slightest. You couldn't be further from the truth. Again... an opinion that means nothing because it is so far off the mark. In fact.. you have just supplied me with a perfect example of when a personal opinion is absolutely wrong... take note catmeow. Wink

I nor Xanth or anyone who seriously practices nonphysical exploration is waiting for any type of exalted position rubbish upon death.

"The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you" is referring to what you encounter and how you interpret what you see when Out of Body. I don't think it bears any resemblance to how a psychopath's reasoning works when conduction world domination.

I don't think I would say he is "part of the "White Robes Brigade"". That seems like of presumptuous. I am sure the white Robes Brigade have a lot of beliefs that Xanth does not have.

Peace.

I agree.

Cheesy
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Szaxx
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2012, 15:27:57 »

Read between the lines. None on planet earth are going to get a superlative status because they...
The point is simple. You are the seeds that you sow.
Karma is exactly this, its another label for it.
The bad by comparison to the good are no different. I've seen a commonality in my many travels. This is grouping. Whether its by choice, or some totally unknown action.
Read those who are famous for their findings in this art.
The BST's have been associated with groupings by too many to say otherwise. The labels of F(number) this is grouping. All are related in some way.
Allowing a frequency scale of indigenous vibratory rates as a reference for explanation.
The lower vibratory experiences are indeed dark and rather unpleasant to bear witness too.
The higher in frequency you are the more pleasant things become. This is reported by many over the last centuries in one way or another.
Being human the limits are naturally imposed on us all and this seems to bear to this explanatory scale.
Its the 'YOU' that you are that imposes your position.
Go oob to a higher level (assuming you know how) and be totally a destructive jackass, wreak as much disruption as possible.  Then try to do the same again a few times.
Keep in mind its for your personal hate of order, a demonstration perhaps.
A task itself, you will get an answer.
On planet earth many do their daily job to make ends meet. Some far better than others.
There exists a few who think differently. Their parasitic action of theft and deciet may bring them a means to live by but eventually they will fail. This can mean internment. Their actions go against the flow of others and they get placed in accordance with their ways.
How many of you have gone against the grain while oob and ended up BOOTED OUT from wherever you were offering disrespect?
White robes, nah.
Earned respect, possibly.

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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2012, 16:45:03 »


 This forum is just so typical of those who consider themselves part of the "White Robes Brigade".
That is those who on physical, death, will be elevate to some exalted position in the Afterlife, given
their white robes, and be educated into the mysteries of the Universe. Just read Xanth's-Ryan's
comments above! No doubt he's one of them! Past lives, and present life traumas obviously
does not affect him! He resolved them all, and is now a high spiritual being in physical incarnation.

"The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you." Ryans words! So all the worlds greatest
murderers and assholes only have to overrule their emotional feelings about the thousands
or millions they slaughtered, and now they are living in some sort of wonderful bliss according
to your pathetic statements! Adolf Hitler must now be living in some sort of 'Aryan Paradise'',
in the Afterlife if he just thinks so! Ryan! You are a complete fool. Punishment and Karma happens
in the Afterlife, just like it happens in the physical! Get Educated!
As my friends so aptly pointed out, you are quite in error, and VERY out of order.

Also, if you don't like the opinions being presented on this forum... you are 100% free to leave whenever you like.
But make no mistake, your current behaviour will not be tolerated here for long.

You're welcome to stay and participate, but please post with a bit more respect.
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Xanth
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« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2012, 16:47:07 »

Read between the lines. None on planet earth are going to get a superlative status because they...
The point is simple. You are the seeds that you sow.
Karma is exactly this, its another label for it.
The bad by comparison to the good are no different. I've seen a commonality in my many travels. This is grouping. Whether its by choice, or some totally unknown action.
Read those who are famous for their findings in this art.
The BST's have been associated with groupings by too many to say otherwise. The labels of F(number) this is grouping. All are related in some way.
Allowing a frequency scale of indigenous vibratory rates as a reference for explanation.
The lower vibratory experiences are indeed dark and rather unpleasant to bear witness too.
The higher in frequency you are the more pleasant things become. This is reported by many over the last centuries in one way or another.
Being human the limits are naturally imposed on us all and this seems to bear to this explanatory scale.
Its the 'YOU' that you are that imposes your position.
Go oob to a higher level (assuming you know how) and be totally a destructive jackass, wreak as much disruption as possible.  Then try to do the same again a few times.
Keep in mind its for your personal hate of order, a demonstration perhaps.
A task itself, you will get an answer.
On planet earth many do their daily job to make ends meet. Some far better than others.
There exists a few who think differently. Their parasitic action of theft and deciet may bring them a means to live by but eventually they will fail. This can mean internment. Their actions go against the flow of others and they get placed in accordance with their ways.
How many of you have gone against the grain while oob and ended up BOOTED OUT from wherever you were offering disrespect?
White robes, nah.
Earned respect, possibly.
I view it very much tied very closely to Tom Campbell's concept of Entropy reduction.
It's based entirely around you and your actions towards others and has very little, if anything at all, to do with something outside yourself.

Is that what most people believe karma to be?  Some kind of outside influence upon the actions of your life?  I honestly don't really know.  lol

Oh and hold on... I have to take off my white robe... it's too hot in here for that.  Wink
Makes me wonder if I get a wizard hat and wand too!
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2012, 17:32:24 »

Hey Xanth,
Your cat isn't totally black so you may not wear a pointy hat with moon and stars.
Unlike some others though a big D apparently isn't in order either.
Mmmm maybe a white pointy hat.. Er no thats very bad for karma, the implications suggest one thats invisible.
The truths out there.
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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2012, 23:40:08 »


 This forum is just so typical of those who consider themselves part of the "White Robes Brigade".
That is those who on physical, death, will be elevate to some exalted position in the Afterlife, given
their white robes, and be educated into the mysteries of the Universe. Just read Xanth's-Ryan's
comments above! No doubt he's one of them! Past lives, and present life traumas obviously
does not affect him! He resolved them all, and is now a high spiritual being in physical incarnation.

"The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you." Ryans words! So all the worlds greatest
murderers and assholes only have to overrule their emotional feelings about the thousands
or millions they slaughtered, and now they are living in some sort of wonderful bliss according
to your pathetic statements! Adolf Hitler must now be living in some sort of 'Aryan Paradise'',
in the Afterlife if he just thinks so! Ryan! You are a complete fool. Punishment and Karma happens
in the Afterlife, just like it happens in the physical! Get Educated!  

        
Im not actually sure how you came to the white robe rant from Ryans words??? I agree we create our own suffering..so we reap that which we sow...simple concept I would have thought. Regards
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 23:45:34 by majour ka » Logged
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« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2013, 02:08:33 »

I can't believe this thread ever died. I'm not saying it is worthy of being a sticky (not in the least) but some very valid points have been made.

I had a hard time initially accepting the idea that a person such as Hitler could have the same chance at growing and eventually work his way towards a higher and more pleasurable existence as others who did not live a life of self indulgence. Because when you distill every heinous act committed in his name and under his will and authority, it is self indulgence. He denied himself of nothing that he found pleasurable.

There was a time that my idea of a just punishment was an eye for an eye and I felt that Hitler should be torn apart by dogs a million times over, as well as gassed a trillion times over. But really, what is that? Is that justice? Is that punishment? Is that hell? Could that not also be heaven for a person who enjoys being torn apart by dogs and loves the smell of obnoxious deadly gases? That may sound stupid but what it really is, is relative. The taste of chocolate that some people crave and love makes me gag. Is chocolate gross or is it only gross to me?

The punishment that we sometimes want for people when they die is not justice. It is revenge and revenge is in and of itself a human indulgence in our need to settle the score or to restore balance. Instead of being angered by some of these ideas, we should be comforted by them. What is wrong with somebody having the chance to continue their "spiritual" growth?

If you have trapped yourself in the belief that there is only this physical life and then one "hell" or one "heaven", then you are the ones who should be trying the hardest to reconcile these truths. Because you will punish yourselves in ways that no others can. If you do not "receive" what your belief system told you was due to you, then you will see hell everywhere you look.

In relative time, I think it will be an infinite amount of years before a "Hitler" could even claw his way up to the lowest "hell" I believe I can receive. But when my physical body dies and I find myself standing next to Hitler, I can punish myself and think I too must be in the worst imaginable hell possible, or I can be grateful that if a "Hitler" can make it this high up so fast, then I have a lot to look forward too.

I am speaking in terms and concepts that I don't necessarily believe in but I am trying to make a point both above and below.

The road to hell is not paved with good intentions, it is the same road that leads to heaven and it is paved with our expectations. We will all be placed on the road at a point in which we deserve. We will all go in the direction that we think we deserve.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 02:30:58 by its_all_bad » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2013, 02:40:49 »

Reading through your post it reminded me of a book I read. Forget which one. Pretty much, someone had murdered people and their punishment was to visit the people they murdered each day, spend time with them, get to know them. Forever.
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« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2013, 09:17:42 »

Meh. I don't expect much from humanity, people are just animals and when they act like animals it doesn't surprise me. I myself sometimes act like an animal, after all what is sex? My belief is that ego's don't live forever and so I don't expect on encountering Hilter, if there's a life after death for this ego that I call me. He'll just get recycled and whatever jewels (if any) that he learned will be saved. Unless he somehow managed to merge with his higher self / soul -- which unless he was enlightened he wouldn't be able to. But maybe my theory is just too convenient, and in the end it's just a theory.
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« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2013, 09:31:14 »

Meh. I don't expect much from humanity, people are just animals and when they act like animals it doesn't surprise me. I myself sometimes act like an animal, after all what is sex? My belief is that ego's don't live forever and so I don't expect on encountering Hilter, if there's a life after death for this ego that I call me. He'll just get recycled and whatever jewels (if any) that he learned will be saved. Unless he somehow managed to merge with his higher self / soul -- which unless he was enlightened he wouldn't be able to. But maybe my theory is just too convenient, and in the end it's just a theory.

Ego's don't live forever.
I'm stealing that line. That beautifully sums up much of my point.
I think all of us are guilty of forming theories that are comforting. In fact, most of mine are.
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« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2013, 03:41:07 »

Greetings all
Szaxx, you wrote
Quote
The BST's have been associated with groupings by too many to say otherwise. The labels of F(number) this is grouping. All are related in some way.
Allowing a frequency scale of indigenous vibratory rates as a reference for explanation.
The lower vibratory experiences are indeed dark and rather unpleasant to bear witness too.
The higher in frequency you are the more pleasant things become. This is reported by many over the last centuries in one way or another.
Being human the limits are naturally imposed on us all and this seems to bear to this explanatory scale.
Its the 'YOU' that you are that imposes your position.
Yes, well said. This is an idea that I Am generally in agreement with.
However I Do have two problems with this. The first is the concept that the lower vibratory levels =  lack of energy = lack of enlightenment. This leads many people to conclude that evil is simply the lack of knowledge (enlightenment). The argument usually goes that people who commit evil acts only lack the knowledge (= enlightenment = "light") or else they would be better beings and refrain form harming others. In my world view (and other worldly view) this is only a lame excuse to deny that true evil exists (evil as a separate and independent force existing whether or not anything else exists to counter it).
And this leads directly to my second problem. Which is .... if evil is simply a low vibratory level (lack of knowledge, enlightenment, energy, love, light or whatever) then the most wicked evil beings should be the ones with the lowest vibratory level. In fact the most evil of all (Stalin, Hitler, etal) should be just about comatose in an afterlife as they would have a baseline (low) vibratory rate. Yet, if in fact, the afterlife is quite similar to the physical life, (which BTW I believe that it is) then these evil individuals probably have loads of energy as they were Very energetic people during their physical lives. Maybe there is a law of astral physics that makes one vibratory level the most evil of all. But probably not. So what logically remains is that a decrease in vibratory level does not necessarily entail a more evil being since the end result would be a complete lack of any vibratory level and, hence, a complete lack of existence.
Again there could be some irrefutable Law of astral physics, or consciousness or karma or whatever that offers a satisfactory explanation for evil vs good but the high vibratory rate = good, low vibratory rate = evil theory Does have those 2 big 'holes' of which I have just mentioned.

Thanx for reading cool
Grey 
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« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2013, 04:08:02 »

This is just my guess, but I think it would be difficult to put into our terms and words because we are limited in our perspective from our obvious physical restraints. Energy level is one of those things. I think I know what Szaxx is getting at. We need to use such words to try and best portray something that doesn't quite translate exactly and each person reading will take something a little different from it. I like to think of it as the presence of light/love. I guess it would depend on how you looked at life to depend on exactly what evil is and the punishment or whatever. I am under the impression that we are here to learn, to experience, to grow. Maybe people like Hitler missed the point. Many would believe he would deserve to rot in "hell" or whatever. But what would that accomplish? A sense of revenge or justice? What does that accomplish? Once again, hard to put this stuff into words, but maybe you can get what I'm trying to say.
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« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2013, 04:48:20 »

I have a problem with labeling something as good or evil. To me, everything has it's place and it's purpose. I admit that this is a very recent development in my personal philosophy though so I struggle to flesh it out in words.

Most religions that I am aware of view evil as a choice of free will to turn away from the "light" or to oppose the "creator". By that standard, evil can easily be defined. This concept has become so ingrained in our thinking that we have a very hard time seeing it any other way even when we try not to.

But what if we there was no free will? Wouldn't this make our creator or source evil for making us essentially slaves? If so, would that make us evil since our creator was?

What we view as good or evil is determined from our individual perspective. Hitler certainly loved some people and was loved in turn. Is the love they felt for each other evil because they were considered evil?

These are just questions that I ask myself and I am no where close to having an answer.



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« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2013, 04:50:13 »

Greetings all,

etc. blah blah blah enlightenment

Just kidding. Wow I saw your post and thought "Ah we have one from the mystery schools or an occultist." finally someone else other than Stookie!  cry
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« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2013, 11:29:07 »

Hi All,
I used the vibtratory scale as a reference as this term has been accepted for well over 100 years. Ideally most should understand the reference. I use frequency too (esthetics). The frequency of vibration may be similar to our EMF system. With this in mind the energy present is the same for all frequencies. One lowers the frequency the wavelength increases in size.
I'll not bother with the proportionality maths.
Anyone hearing that 2 stroke engine ticking over at the point of exit is told by several authors to increase its frequency, speed it up. This gives a more pleasant outing.( not found a linkable reference yet)
Try it for yourselves the first chance you get. The second chance slow it down and see the foggy misery for yourselves. Don't hang around too long, it's rather unpleasant in all aspects.
As good/ evil goes this is rather subjective. Its based on a generally accepted concept. Society accepts a norm, a little either side of this is ok. Extremes are not accepted.
The point is, society itself is imperfect and the norm will be inherently flawed.
Hitler had a dream, the perfect race on planet earth. No one objects to this dream, it sounds good. However his attempt to achieve this goal is unspeakable...too extreme.
Doing his deeds will place him where he needs to be IMHO. The location set by laws we have no knowledge of. He will be active in this location hopefully for the better. Revenge is a base physical emotion and plays little to no part in  learning the errors of our  ways.
I know, anger on the increase...
@ Grey.  I hope to have covered the points previously made with some clarity.
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« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2013, 13:57:36 »

Doing his deeds will place him where he needs to be IMHO. The location set by laws we have no knowledge of. He will be active in this location hopefully for the better. Revenge is a base physical emotion and plays little to no part in  learning the errors of our  ways.
I know, anger on the increase...

Exactly!
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