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Author Topic: Why the Rope Tech. doesn't work for most people  (Read 2761 times)
madmagus
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« on: July 23, 2016, 11:57:22 »

If this topic has been covered already, I apologize.  It was sticking in my craw this evening, and I had to spit it out.

There seems to be a great confusion regarding the Rope Tech, at least from all the posts and books that I've read and interviews that I've listened to.  The same misconception can be applied to many techs., but I'll stick to the Rope Tech for this discussion.  You can apply the info elsewhere on your own.

Too many 'Teachers' try to tell you that the Rope Tech will allow you to project out of body.  This simply is not correct in the truest sense of the word.  This misconception is what causes a huge amount of aggravation, especially as people new to OBE try to apply the Rope Tech at the wrong time.  They think that it is a method to shift consciousness from the physical to the non-physical, that it takes you from waking reality into the Astral or where ever you think you go.

But, the dark secret behind the Rope Tech (which I never use, by the way) is that you already have to be OBE before it has any possibility of being effective.  You are not in waking consciousness, or a physically oriented state, when the Rope pulls you out into the RTZ.  It can't. 

All the Rope Tech does is use your mind's inability to recognize the non-physical state that you are in and apply a physical-type action to put your OBE consciousness into motion; so you finally realize where you already are.

All you actually have to do if you are in a condition where the Rope Tech works is will yourself to rise into the air.  That's it.  That's all you have to do because you are already in NPR, and you and your surroundings are thought responsive....not physically responsive. 

So the next time you think it appropriate to throw that rope into the air above you, just will yourself to rise.  If you don't rise, the bloody rope won't do you any good either.  Dive deeper into the experience.  Shift further into phase.  Keep willing yourself cross the Veil.  When you have fully engaged the NPR, then toss up the rope if you really feel that you have to.

Good luck with it
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Privex
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2016, 12:53:47 »

May I request that you briefly explain the steps you take to have an OBE?
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2016, 12:53:47 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2016, 14:26:41 »

This is quite a good realization. All this techniques are basically to move your awareness away from the physical.

Once you feel the technique work you are already out.
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madmagus
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 03:25:10 »

Privex, I only use two techniques, if you want to call them that.  The first is conversion of a lucid dream into an OBE.  I don't recall which of the dozens of books that I've read that I got it from.  In essence, I stabilize the LD: "Lucidity now.  Awareness now."  Pretty standard there.  Then I simply stop.  I allow the dream to fade by not interacting with it, but always maintaining awareness, if necessary by fiddling with my hands as a focal point.  I tell myself that I want to go to my highest possible level of awareness.  I suppose it's a type of meditation within the LD.  My scene changes around me.  Sometimes I go into the void and then go to a location.  Sometimes I just go to a new location.  I don't know why one or the other.

Some would say that I simply re-initiated another lucid dream.  But if you have had both an OBE and a lucid dream, you can recognize intuitively the difference.  My interpretation is that an OBE is not as willy-nilly thought responsive, that the surroundings are more stable, if that makes sense.

The only other method that I use is a meditative approach.  Lucid dreamers like to call it a WILD: a wake induced lucid dream.  To me, if you pass from the physical world into the non-physical world without transitioning through sleep, then you're not in a Lucid Dream, unless your perspective is Buddhist of course.  Then again, I believe that all dreams are OBEs.  The only real difference from a cognitive perspective is the degree of lucid awareness, thus the above approach.

If you want more details, you could simply look up WILD.  But for a brief description here: I sit down (I use a lounge chair rather than my bed).  I relax my body.  I tell myself to go to sleep.  I watch as this starts to happen, just to make sure that I am indeed relaxed enough for the process to take place.  If my mind is too wandery, my body will be as well, and I'll maintain an undercurrent of tension that will thwart the process.  

The next step is hard for me to describe, but essentially I put myself into a passive, watchful state, which is why I call it a meditative approach, because I just observe my body and mind as they drift toward sleep.  I very quickly lose track of my body, though I almost never recognize any sleep paralysis.  I may have the slightest bit of vibration, but nothing more.  I slowly start to see images come into my mind's eye that take on a more and more 3D perspective rather than what you would normally see when reviewing a memory.  I just observe.  Eventually, the image is full blown in front of me and I step into it... if you can remember the feeling when you are in a non-lucid dream and you transition into lucidity, then you know what it feels like here, as if your unfocused world suddenly resolves into a much finer image.  Many times the initial images that pop up are very tight focus, very single focus almost, with blurry surroundings.  If I try to push myself into these images, which I really want to do sometimes because of how beautiful they are, I tend to knock myself out of the process.  You don't have to force the transition if your mind is ready.

I am a very visual person, so the experience is oriented that way for me.  Some people talk about hearing this and that or smelling something, but those aren't even on the periphery for me.  Although on occasion I'll get what feels like a jab, or our house's ghost cat walking over me.  But that's a whole other story.

Hoped this helps a little.  You can find very similar advice in a number of posts I believe, as what I'm sharing isn't breaking new ground.
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Xanth
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 05:51:13 »

If this topic has been covered already, I apologize.  It was sticking in my craw this evening, and I had to spit it out.

There seems to be a great confusion regarding the Rope Tech, at least from all the posts and books that I've read and interviews that I've listened to.  The same misconception can be applied to many techs., but I'll stick to the Rope Tech for this discussion.  You can apply the info elsewhere on your own.

Too many 'Teachers' try to tell you that the Rope Tech will allow you to project out of body.  This simply is not correct in the truest sense of the word.  This misconception is what causes a huge amount of aggravation, especially as people new to OBE try to apply the Rope Tech at the wrong time.  They think that it is a method to shift consciousness from the physical to the non-physical, that it takes you from waking reality into the Astral or where ever you think you go.

But, the dark secret behind the Rope Tech (which I never use, by the way) is that you already have to be OBE before it has any possibility of being effective.  You are not in waking consciousness, or a physically oriented state, when the Rope pulls you out into the RTZ.  It can't. 

All the Rope Tech does is use your mind's inability to recognize the non-physical state that you are in and apply a physical-type action to put your OBE consciousness into motion; so you finally realize where you already are.

All you actually have to do if you are in a condition where the Rope Tech works is will yourself to rise into the air.  That's it.  That's all you have to do because you are already in NPR, and you and your surroundings are thought responsive....not physically responsive. 

So the next time you think it appropriate to throw that rope into the air above you, just will yourself to rise.  If you don't rise, the bloody rope won't do you any good either.  Dive deeper into the experience.  Shift further into phase.  Keep willing yourself cross the Veil.  When you have fully engaged the NPR, then toss up the rope if you really feel that you have to.

Good luck with it
Dude!  You nailed it!  Smiley

I don't think I could have written anything more concise myself!
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 05:51:13 »



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Privex
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 12:35:43 »

Privex, I only use two techniques, if you want to call them that.  The first is conversion of a lucid dream into an OBE.  I don't recall which of the dozens of books that I've read that I got it from.  In essence, I stabilize the LD: "Lucidity now.  Awareness now."  Pretty standard there.  Then I simply stop.  I allow the dream to fade by not interacting with it, but always maintaining awareness, if necessary by fiddling with my hands as a focal point.  I tell myself that I want to go to my highest possible level of awareness.  I suppose it's a type of meditation within the LD.  My scene changes around me.  Sometimes I go into the void and then go to a location.  Sometimes I just go to a new location.  I don't know why one or the other.

Some would say that I simply re-initiated another lucid dream.  But if you have had both an OBE and a lucid dream, you can recognize intuitively the difference.  My interpretation is that an OBE is not as willy-nilly thought responsive, that the surroundings are more stable, if that makes sense.

The only other method that I use is a meditative approach.  Lucid dreamers like to call it a WILD: a wake induced lucid dream.  To me, if you pass from the physical world into the non-physical world without transitioning through sleep, then you're not in a Lucid Dream, unless your perspective is Buddhist of course.  Then again, I believe that all dreams are OBEs.  The only real difference from a cognitive perspective is the degree of lucid awareness, thus the above approach.

If you want more details, you could simply look up WILD.  But for a brief description here: I sit down (I use a lounge chair rather than my bed).  I relax my body.  I tell myself to go to sleep.  I watch as this starts to happen, just to make sure that I am indeed relaxed enough for the process to take place.  If my mind is too wandery, my body will be as well, and I'll maintain an undercurrent of tension that will thwart the process.  

The next step is hard for me to describe, but essentially I put myself into a passive, watchful state, which is why I call it a meditative approach, because I just observe my body and mind as they drift toward sleep.  I very quickly lose track of my body, though I almost never recognize any sleep paralysis.  I may have the slightest bit of vibration, but nothing more.  I slowly start to see images come into my mind's eye that take on a more and more 3D perspective rather than what you would normally see when reviewing a memory.  I just observe.  Eventually, the image is full blown in front of me and I step into it... if you can remember the feeling when you are in a non-lucid dream and you transition into lucidity, then you know what it feels like here, as if your unfocused world suddenly resolves into a much finer image.  Many times the initial images that pop up are very tight focus, very single focus almost, with blurry surroundings.  If I try to push myself into these images, which I really want to do sometimes because of how beautiful they are, I tend to knock myself out of the process.  You don't have to force the transition if your mind is ready.

I am a very visual person, so the experience is oriented that way for me.  Some people talk about hearing this and that or smelling something, but those aren't even on the periphery for me.  Although on occasion I'll get what feels like a jab, or our house's ghost cat walking over me.  But that's a whole other story.

Hoped this helps a little.  You can find very similar advice in a number of posts I believe, as what I'm sharing isn't breaking new ground.

Thanks for the in depth explanation. I have actually been thinking about trying that first method recently. Might give it a shot now that I know someone actually consistently uses it.
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Xanth
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 04:15:48 »

Thanks for the in depth explanation. I have actually been thinking about trying that first method recently. Might give it a shot now that I know someone actually consistently uses it.
In the end, the technique/method you use, isn't really as important as the "focus" that technique/method provides you with.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2015/01/21/design-effective-astral-projection-technique/

You could probably say that the "Focus" you choose to use to project with *IS* the technique/method, since that's really all that differs between EVERY SINGLE technique out there.
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 11:22:09 »

In the end, the technique/method you use, isn't really as important as the "focus" that technique/method provides you with.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2015/01/21/design-effective-astral-projection-technique/

You could probably say that the "Focus" you choose to use to project with *IS* the technique/method, since that's really all that differs between EVERY SINGLE technique out there.

Thanks Xanth. I tend to focus on my breathing and the blackness while my eyes are closed. Is it fine to focus on two things like that or should I try to focus primarily on one or the other?
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 11:30:31 »

Last time I was in the isolation tank I entered a meditative trance that lasted around 2 hours - when I came out of it I could tell that time had passed but it didn't feel like I had been sleeping or had lost awareness. I did recognize that my limbs felt very numb from being in the same position for a long time.

Is it likely that I was asleep enough to project here and lost consciousness, or that I was in the sub sleep phase where time is non-linear that Monroe described as focus 15. If the latter, what does it take to go from the deep time meditation, which I have accidently spent hours doing on many occasions, to full body sleep? Is it a matter of relaxation - state of mind?
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 13:24:01 »

Thanks Xanth. I tend to focus on my breathing and the blackness while my eyes are closed. Is it fine to focus on two things like that or should I try to focus primarily on one or the other?

You will learn with practice that your breath will go on it's way and you don't need to watch it anymore, just give it some rhythm at the start and let it do it's job. It took me months to make it automatic. If you check your breath or any body parts frequently, you will not getting anywhere.
Just start your relaxing and relax your eyes, you don't need them to stare. Try to switch to behind them - it is like you are in a dark bubble or behind a dark wall. You will see the difference if you are experimenting.
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Xanth
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 17:07:47 »

Thanks Xanth. I tend to focus on my breathing and the blackness while my eyes are closed. Is it fine to focus on two things like that or should I try to focus primarily on one or the other?
Well, I'd probably focus on just one thing at a time... pick the one which you feel will hold your focus the best.  If it doesn't work, switch.  Smiley

You will learn with practice that your breath will go on it's way and you don't need to watch it anymore, just give it some rhythm at the start and let it do it's job. It took me months to make it automatic. If you check your breath or any body parts frequently, you will not getting anywhere.
Just start your relaxing and relax your eyes, you don't need them to stare. Try to switch to behind them - it is like you are in a dark bubble or behind a dark wall. You will see the difference if you are experimenting.
You misunderstand, the entire point of watching your breath is to give your mind something to focus on. 
It *IS* your focus.  If you're not watching your breath, then you need to find another focus.

Basically, it doesn't matter WHAT you focus on, just so long as it's something which can hold your attention for extended periods of time.

You actually CAN use body parts to focus on.  WHAT you focus on doesn't matter... it can be, literally, be anything.  For example, if you want to place your entire focus on the big toe of your left foot.  As long as you're focusing on that to the exclusion of everything else, then it WILL work for you to project with.
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 22:00:16 »

Well, I'd probably focus on just one thing at a time... pick the one which you feel will hold your focus the best.  If it doesn't work, switch.  Smiley
You misunderstand, the entire point of watching your breath is to give your mind something to focus on. 
It *IS* your focus.  If you're not watching your breath, then you need to find another focus.

Basically, it doesn't matter WHAT you focus on, just so long as it's something which can hold your attention for extended periods of time.

You actually CAN use body parts to focus on.  WHAT you focus on doesn't matter... it can be, literally, be anything.  For example, if you want to place your entire focus on the big toe of your left foot.  As long as you're focusing on that to the exclusion of everything else, then it WILL work for you to project with.

Its good you cleared that up, I was in a dilemma after reading Phildans comment haha
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 22:25:58 »

Both of our comments can work. Beginners can stuck from hard breath, thats why I recommended what I said. I'm a beginner too, so I'm saying it from own experience.
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 22:53:51 »

 You would be amazed at how deep just a simple focus on counting to 300 can take you.

 You know yourself and know what you are good at and what you aren't. If you are good visualizing, you can create imagery. There are all kinds of things to focus on to take you deeper.
 Here is thread I made with a number of techniques to aid you with your "NP" focus. Practice often. You get back what you put into this!  wink
 http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 00:15:47 »

If rope doesn't work - take a ladder.

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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2016, 00:22:51 »

You misunderstand, the entire point of watching your breath is to give your mind something to focus on. It *IS* your focus.

How do you carry out this kind of focus to the end objective? Whenever I have been out of body I have not been breathing - if before projecting you are breathing but after you are not, you have to stop focus on breath at some point?

For me breathing is like the anchor to the physical, it is the default thing I go to when I get spooked in the non physical.
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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2016, 01:57:13 »

How do you carry out this kind of focus to the end objective? Whenever I have been out of body I have not been breathing - if before projecting you are breathing but after you are not, you have to stop focus on breath at some point?

For me breathing is like the anchor to the physical, it is the default thing I go to when I get spooked in the non physical.
The best way I can describe it is this...
How do you fall asleep at night?  At one point you're awake... and the next you're not.
The only difference with a conscious projection is that when you "fall asleep", you retain that thread of awareness.

For you specifically, since you've built up that association in your mind (breath = physical), then focusing upon your breath might not work well for you.  That is part and parcel with trying to find that focus which works best for you.  Smiley

For someone who can focus on their breathing... it's just a smooth shift of awareness from "here" to "there".  You can even be "there" and still have full sensation of your body.  Smiley
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 02:28:27 by Xanth » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2016, 02:27:48 »

Something to think about if you are worried about breathing getting in your way.  Do you ever use music in whatever form as your focus?  What happens after a while?  Your awareness of the music just fades away naturally.  I even use Black Sabbath on occasion, and you probably know they are not a quiet band.  You don't have to focus away from it to get it to go away.  You are just here with your music, and then you are not.  You are in NPR.  As has been stated, it's really no different than falling asleep.   You sit there listening to your favorite album, or watching your breath, and the next thing you know you are waking up or in a dream or elsewhere.  As long as you maintain your passive focus, the rest will take care of itself.
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2016, 03:05:32 »

I don't know if this is going to help, but I just looked at Xanth's link.  It reminded me of another problem area for OBEers.  The idea that some people (believe) that they can't visualize.  It is particularly relevant here.  Well, relevant enough, lol.  I bring it up because my point revolves around the idea of 'Focus' as Xanth discusses it.

Most people don't realize that simply pulling up a memory is a form of visualization.  And why this is relevant here is that whenever you bring up a memory or use any kind of visualization technique, you immediately put yourself into NPR; an aspect of your consciousness is already out-of-phase.  The only difference between observing your visualization and a full blown OBE is the degree of focus.  This is why Xanth's discussion of 'Focus' is so very important.  It is why simply focusing on your object of choice works.  The longer you focus on your focal reference, the deeper you get into NPR.  Eventually, you transition completely.  You lose focus on physical/waking reality, and you're OBE, full blown.   So, create your visualization, pull up a memory, just maintain the focus.  

Remember.  You are already OBE to a degree the moment you create your visual reference.  Hang in there, and you will naturally transition completely.  

Hope that helped a bit.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 03:13:27 by madmagus » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2016, 05:48:20 »

i actually dont think about it when i do it. i just do it. if i think about it, its wasted in sleep paralysis.
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2016, 06:17:48 »

The best way I can describe it is this...
How do you fall asleep at night?  At one point you're awake... and the next you're not.
The only difference with a conscious projection is that when you "fall asleep", you retain that thread of awareness.
It is true that you start off awake and aware of the breathing, and at some point you lose awareness of breathing and fall asleep. Later you wake up and resume awareness of breathing. With conscious projection I lose awareness of the breathing and fall asleep, but because I have retained the thread of awareness, it goes back to the breathing and I wake up. When I lucid dream I forget about the breathing issue during the long period of awareness loss so it doesn't come up.

Quote
For you specifically, since you've built up that association in your mind (breath = physical), then focusing upon your breath might not work well for you.  That is part and parcel with trying to find that focus which works best for you.  Smiley

For someone who can focus on their breathing... it's just a smooth shift of awareness from "here" to "there".  You can even be "there" and still have full sensation of your body.  Smiley

It would be really nice if I could get past this issue by translating my physical breathing seamlessly into non-physical breathing, or subvert the issue entirely by perceiving both. When I was a teenager I could be there and here - but I haven't had that experience in over 10 years now Sad

When you say that it is a smooth shift while focusing on breathing - I know it is possible but is it common to actually maintain that focus during the shift or do you only use it up until you lose awareness and begin the shift?
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2016, 07:20:01 »

Maybe someone here wants to make the rope technique both semi-useful and properly understood.  You could teach it as as two-part OB technique.

Part #1:  Visualize a rope.  Keep focus on the visualization until you transition fully to NPR.  Emphasize the fully part.
Part #2:  Grab the rope and pull your focal awareness up to the ceiling of your bedroom just to make sure that you are indeed in NPR.

Sell it as a technique that climbers can relate to.  I hear that climbers are always suckers for rope related stuff.

Despite the sarcastic nature of this post, it's actually not that bad of an idea.  Someone needs to clear the OBE air regarding it.  It'll save a whole bunch of novice (and experienced sadly) OBEers a whole lot of grief and frustration.
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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2016, 08:49:51 »

Maybe someone here wants to make the rope technique both semi-useful and properly understood.  You could teach it as as two-part OB technique.
This in nothing new!

 It's already been done a number of times over already. Just read some books or watch some videos on Astral Projection. You can find a number of posts on that subject on this very Forum here. Try using the search engine and you will see what I mean.

 There used to be a helpful thread with 50 different focus techniques that one could use. Many of them were offshoots of the rope technique. Like for instance rowing, swimming, climbing a wall, sling shotting, all kinds of things. I'm sure it's here still. It most likely disappeared into the Astral Pulse "abyss".

 This link has 30 techniques.
 http://in5d.com/30-astral-projection-techniques/

 No matter what technique you use, the key is to hold that focus. Watching a "candle burn" is great for this. Especially because it leaves a actual imprint in your focus window when you close your eyes. When the visual disappears, bring it back. Hold it for as long as you can. At first 5 seconds seems like a eternity. But after awhile you will find that you can hold that focus for much longer. Practice, practice, practice!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 09:46:52 by Lumaza » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2016, 12:07:40 »

Yeah.  The forum has been around for quite a time.  I've been doing everything on my own and with specialized groups up until recently.  It's silly for me to assume that everything hasn't already been talked to death.  I get caught in the heat of the moment at times.
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2016, 12:29:15 »

Yeah.  The forum has been around for quite a time.  I've been doing everything on my own and with specialized groups up until recently.  It's silly for me to assume that everything hasn't already been talked to death.  I get caught in the heat of the moment at times.
No harm, no foul. Your passion is showing through!  wink
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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
                  Albert Einstein

To be successful with Astral Projection/Non Physical Exploration, your will to succeed must be much stronger than your acceptance of failure!
The Astral Pulse
   



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