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Author Topic: a guide to RTZ-OBEs from LDs  (Read 18641 times)
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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2004, 14:27:19 »


I've just read your post - and I like it very much.

I find for the past year, most of my OBEs have been in the RTZ.  However, for the life of me, I can't seem to go fast anywhere.  As soon as I try to zoom or fly quickly, I 'lose' the experience and instantly my physical body wakes up.  My experiences tend to only last a short while too.  

I think it's because I'm still taking limitations with me (i.e. I can't physically go that fast and I can't physically fly).

I'm still lumbering around putting my hands through walls and the like, which is great fun, but when you've had a year of doing it, you want to do something else!

Do you think it would be a good idea to do your exercise of looking at 'real' objects for 1-3 seconds whilst I am in the RTZ?  If so, what benefits are there?

I have just received Robert Monroe's second and third books and am looking forward to reading them.  I'm quite keen to move onto astral phasing, but I want it to feel as "real" as my RTZ OBEs.

I've read some of Major Tom's posts about F10 and F12, which fascinate me, so I'm keen to go in this direction, but I'm not very technical or scientifically minded.

I have recently started meditating and raising energy (NEW), in the hope that this will prolong my OBEs (and for the benefit of my well-being), but any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

To some people, a year of having OBEs sounds like an awful long time, but I feel I've only taken a few baby steps in the world of astral travel!

I eagerly await your response.



PS  I also get very easily distracted while I'm in the RTZ!!  I know this is a problem and I need to stick to my original plan/intent.  But things do have a habit of demanding your attention in the astral, even cupboard doors that should be shut, but are flapping open!! [Wink]

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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2004, 13:10:19 »


Upstream, There is a lot of good info in this topic, somehow it relates to having a quality OBE experience, which seems to be lacking in a lot of projectors.
I've found that quality comes when I increase my awareness even when it seems superfluous. Otherwise I would think I'm fully conscious but in reality I'm not. It is very important to restore the waking presonality after entering a dream.

Is the complaint of not seeing things lit up, not being able to move, just a part of the RTZ and not the astral? These things seem to happen when I don't seem to have enough 'energy' to reach the astral.
I'm interested, what do you mean by not having enough energy to reach the astral. Is it a point or state where you think you have reached the astral?

Not seeing things and poorly-lighted environments could be explained many ways. Perhaps you wouldn't like my favorite explanation, but it has some well working applications. Well, I think, every lighting problems could be tracked back to the brain. People who had a near death experience often report an incredibly bright light they never seen before. I suppose that light is perceived not by the brain. Similarly, I have no light-problems in experiences I believe to be astral projection.

Endogen DMT (made by the pineal gland) is responsible for the visual power of dreaming. You would experience light-problems when you consciously enter REM-sleep but your brain has not enough DMT to power bright visuals. DMT is synthesized from melatonin which is the fuel of sleep. It is is converted from serotonin our brain currently on and realeased from in deep sleep. Basically serotonin (we are currently on) and melatonin are converted to each other as sleep and wakefulness alternating.

I like to gaze into bright lights in dreaming to gain more dreaming power. Years before I learned this trick from a nice looking young man. He said I should gaze into a bright lamp to have more lucid dreams. It has no sense at all so I forgot his advice but later I found it works very well. Now I could explain why and currently I plan to go back in time to notice myself, again.

In order to simulate bright lights in dreams the brain needs to produce DMT from melatonin. However, very bright light sources, like the Sun has the adverse effect of waking up instantly. The reason is your brain is try to be up your expectations and forced to use up all its DMT to mimic the brigntess of the Sun. Sun at sunrise and sunset works good in dreaming as in waking. If there is not enough DMT you even couldn't swith on a lamp.

The brain needs a couple of mintues to produce enough DMT from melatonin when you enter REM-sleep. You could enforce this conversion by moving slowly but progressively to more brighter environments, by closely focusing very little details on surfaces (you are always able to rotate your palm to reflect more light no matter where you are), by picking off dark eyed glasses and textiles from your face in a row, and voicing your intent aloud to get brighter visuals. Yo need to repeat this excercises for minutes.    

When I was doing some very long dreaming session I've often observed the renewing of dreaming power after about 60 minutes of dreaming. By pushing dreams over their limits eventually I'll get to a point where I feel a great templation to quit the dream. As I feel myself very tired and slow, enclosed in a dark place in constant struggle for visuals, I see no hope for escape other than waking up. However, I've observed that after a given point the dream get power again. I hypothesize that the brain is forced to start fill up the melatonin pool again from which the DMT could be quickly synthesized. Also, laying down in the position of your sleeping body seems to have the capacity to re-start REM-sleep but first you need a stable dream to start with.

Also, you could teach your brain to produce more DMT by agressively prolonging dreams. If you are able to manage to project every day for a week and prolong all your dreaming sessions by practicing "agressive" reseparaton and/or "superpassive" reentering techniques, you will gain a great deal of dreaming momentum that lasts for 2-3 weeks. However, this ability would be lost soon again if you would not use your gained impulse to sustain the pull and quite some nights.

My conclusion: DMT could be synthesized and used up within seconds but the brain needs some training to do that. This is the ability that makes someone an established projector. Without sustained practice this skill diminish very soon.

What part do the chakras have in these ideas?
Basically, pineal gland is thought to be the 3rd/brow chakras. According to some new research there is a "standing photon field" in the third verticle behind the pineal gland. The verticles are lined by light sensitive cells that supposed to modulate the photon field inside, forming complex interference patterns that coinciding with thalamocortical activity patterns. It's called light in the head.

Anyway, the thalamus is the real center of our brain. I'm sure it is part of the complex we call brow and crow chakra. It is known to control activity of cortical areas thus its different activity patterns are responsible for every possible consciousness state that associated with the brain.

Maybe my brow chakra development/activity is borderline for having exceptional OBE experiences?
Sure. Because its thalamic connections the brow chakra is indeed the command center of the organism. You could affirm yourself more efficiently when you (1) surround your verbal commands with silence and (2) enforce your thoughts by entopic feedback. According to Lefebute (?) thoughts can be powered by seeing into a bright lamp for a couple of seconds then observing the remaining light patterns with eyes closed.

Sometimes when I got some idea I see a colorful mandala superimposed onto my visual field., so I have an ongoing project with the wonderful DreamScope screensaver to using computer generated and on screen projected mandalas as light sources to mimic those mandalas, establish a more refined entopic feedback and practicing visualisations.

I know that Casteneda talked about silencing the inner dialog, but people report that they have better OBE's when they keep a dialog going. Could this be a focusing technique, just like focusing on an object or awareness now! ?
I've never tired to compare this two variations. Silence is prerequisite for inducing RTZ-OBEs and it seems to prolongs after separation. A given degree of silence is natural a prerequisite of those practices I write about in my guide. As highly lucid dreams are associated with more active brain states, thinking should have a stabilizing effect on them, but I'm not sure.

Close focusing of object enforces gamma brain activity. Practicing this focuses in alternation with orders like "awareness now!" "more clarity" etc. is part of the struggle we need to get through to get more brain activity. The resulted highly active brain states help us to restore our waking personality and its inentions and reach the perceptual acuteness of F21. It is a process that goes against some resistance all the way. For me, it could take 2-5 minutes to accomplish from separating a phantom in NREM, moving it away from the bed through the darkness, getting visuals by focusing on details of my palm and get enough awareness and sensory power to reach F21.
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2004, 13:10:19 »

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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2004, 13:35:46 »


As soon as I try to zoom or fly quickly, I 'lose' the experience and instantly my physical body wakes up. My experiences tend to only last a short while too.
I had a similar period that lasted for half a year. I suppose it was the direct result of a new "method" that enabled me to project from superficial sleep. I doubt I can help you, but in order to have the minimal chance I need to know how your typical OBEs are going.

For the meantime, we can't disregard your intuition about self-made limitations.  

Do you think it would be a good idea to do your exercise of looking at 'real' objects for 1-3 seconds whilst I am in the RTZ? If so, what benefits are there?
I think those people would benefit from these excercises who are already experiencing a mixtures of LDs & OBEs. The signs are the following:

- brightness problem, difficulties with getting sight after exit
- pale, greyish dream pictures, general instability
- renewed difficulties with flying
- collapsed episodes of DILDs (dream initiated lucid dreams) could be followed by separation
- other sings I can't remember now

Lucid dreams are associated with highly active brain states and ordinary lucid dreams made by bright pictures are fairly stable. On the opposite, in RTZ-OBEs (and in OBE-like dreams) the brain is in a state similar to hypnagogia, which is a dissociated state somewhere between deep sleep, REM and wakefulness. This means a lesser brain activity and REM-power, thus, inability to produce stable and bright pictures. For this reason those projections tend to be greyish.

Seems like both "real" and "dream-like" OBEs use the same brain mechanisms and play into each other but "dream-like" OBEs are fairly instable. The reason could be that in OBE-like dreamstates the stabilizing feedback are limited only on this "empty" pictures. They are "empty" because they have no energy fields beneath.

If you are indeed in this intermediate state, the looking excercises will synchronize your energy body with real energy fields of our waking reality. The long focuses will stop REM and move your perception toward the RT-point. As a result, the dream pictures will be progressively loaded with more dense energy fields and a new stabilizing feedback will gradually emerge involving now real energy fields.

But doing those focuses from a not acivated, OBE-like lucid dream you will likely wake up prematurely. For activating dreams see my previous post.

I also get very easily distracted while I'm in the RTZ!! I know this is a problem and I need to stick to my original plan/intent. But things do have a habit of demanding your attention in the astral, even cupboard doors that should be shut, but are flapping open!!
Yeah, it's a serious problem. It is similar when you decide to wake up in the middle of the night to do some excercise only to sleep back. So most of the times it is due to not having enough lucidity. But as for other times, should we sacrifice spontainity on the altar of our stiffness?

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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2004, 01:05:36 »

That's very interesting how serotonin is converted into DMT. Here's a pretty good article on DMT's relationship to serotonin:

I also wrote a post here about how to increase your serotonin levels and how its relates to melatonin:

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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2004, 19:04:09 »

Thanks for the reply, upstream. I'm sure the chemical brain has something to do with obe vision. However i'm sure that when we focus on the brow chakra it is stimulating brain chemicals too. A few interesting facts i've come across- I heard a Dr. Sraussman talk about DMT on coast to coast last friday, , he said that the pineal is at it's most active at 2-4 am. Maybe that is why the interupted sleep technique works so well, most people would probably wake about 4 or so. Also take into consideration Buddhism-the tibetians do a lot of meditation with the brow chakra, the zen and southern schools follow the breath mostly. If you look at their art it is the tibetians that have the wild astral-psychedelic look. Maybe it comes from the brow chakra?
As for myself I realized that I don't get hypnogogic images, just weird sounds and the seperation buzz. So maybe I am naturally deficient in the right chemicals for good OBE sight? Hopefully not for long, seems like my brow is pretty stimulated theese days and my obe vision is improving.
In the OBE state I have always been attracted to lights- I guess is more appealing than the shadows- and I tried staring at the stars in an experience I had a couple days ago, but my vision seemed to tumble away as soon as I fixated on one. Any other techniques out there to stabilize the experience?

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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2004, 19:04:09 »

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« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2004, 12:32:13 »

If you lack of brightness, you definitely need more of it. Stars are not bright enough, I am sure. Basically, what we trying to do is stabilize REM-sleep up to a point where it is able to serve as springboard for more conscious demanding operations. Then REM-sleep goes away, first diminish into a hypnagogia like state then into deep sleep, I suppose.

Premature fixating your dream eyes for longer than a couple of seconds can easily shake or even collapse your dreamscape. Don't forget, REM means rapid eye movements, but OBEs occurs in a dissociated states similar to hypnagogia where the eyeballs only do some slow floating movement.

I believe sleep interruption works because sleep need is already satisfied by previous core sleep, however level of melatonin are still high. Melatonin is the fuel of sleep: it causes drowsiness, ensure sleep impetus and serve as feedstock for DMT. It's interesting to note that DMT synthesis is one of the most quickest (quickest?) reaction amongst neuromodulators. Melatonin and DMT is not stored in the pineal but distributed right away by the blood stream.

Basically, stability comes from the full activation of the REM-sleep machanisms result in phasic-REM. Tonic-REM is associated with instable dreams in which you may have your dream body but your sight is very poor or you don't see at all. So, the first step is to activate REM by doing some stabilization excercises then make the dream environment progressively brighter. In the following I'll try to make some point about this process.

As for myself I realized that I don't get hypnogogic images, just weird sounds and the seperation buzz.
Same with me, but the buzz has also become very quiet. Usually I just lying on my bed and get the confidence that the time is now. I think it's greatly dependent on the method we use.

The most stabilization demanding projections starts in darkness. I get my sight by looking through my closed eyelids, usually focusing on my palm before my eyes. I do it at the wall or already in the bed. To keep myself anchored to the dream in the interim I touch objects and concentrate on my dream legs. When I get my sight I look around for objects. The exact path my attention follows has great significance in forming the dream space around. Establishing an allocentric space by looking out of the window for example can be result in some instability. First I need to focus on closer objects to ensure gradual sensory expansion.

Feeling my legs moving beneath is a great anchor. Observing disstant sounds has a strong stabilizing effect, I highly recommend it. Getting emotional contact with objects as sort of extension of the normal senses works wonderful. It is like you would like objects to tell their story. However, there is no doubt in my mind, the most important thing you can do in order to stabilize a given dream session is to ensure a constanly changing environment that holds your interest all the way through.

For this purpose, performe zoomings on distant objects for 2-4 times in a row. Zooming is a great stabilizator, provided the dream live through the first zoom. If the initial dream is apt for it zooming is far secure than flying which is, by the way, can collapse the dream, if possible at all. Zooming requires some other factors currently I'm not confident about. First off, you definitely need a good target, far enough to be able to triggering the zoom reflex. Without a proper target fxating your gaze would wake you up. It is difficult to zoom onto empty dream pictures as I believe zooming is represent the reorganisation process of the multi-seeded, cloud like energy body that occurs on a real energy fields hence its stabilization effect. The best targets are the most distant buildings that your attention may zero in by its own.

Appling the twin method in a row has a similar effect to zooming. Once again, the initial dream has to be stable enough to survive the manoeuvre. You can take the position of your sleeping body anywhere you want in a stable dream provided you know the exact position of your sleeping body. Other positions could wake you up easily. Otherwise, it works similar to false awakening, has the same superb stabilizng effect, but now you have the conscious purpose too. I suppose this trick works by mimicing the REM-starter conditions.

A promising modification of this technique use the flip manoeuvre you may have already experienced spontaneously when you felt yourself sleeping in the opposite direction than your physical. You can encounter the flip in the pre-separational stage or between two conscious OBE-episodes when you lay motionless, waiting passively for the next re-separation. If you leave your bedroom but go back to you bed after the dream has stabilized itself, you could use the polarity flip manoeuvre, by now consciously (thanks Wisp for the great name, it's sooo cool). Just lie back on you bed in the dream but for now in the opposite direction than you went to sleep and pretend a brief projection attempt of yours. Alhough you sleep in the opposite direction, relative position of your limbs have to be properly alingned with those of your sleeping body is hold. As a result you would separate in a new dream powered by a new REM-phase which should be extremly stable.

Unfortunately, internal projections like this are greatly diminish my ability to remember them. To have better memories I perform a simple trick to "relive the emanation cone." I wander my sight on the details of my palm whilst I quickly remember the main stages of the route I took up to this point where I'm in the dream, but now in a reverse manner; from my current dream environment to to my "last" sleeping body. I takes 5-10 seconds to accomplish.

Briefly focusing my palm help in emergency situations as well, and at those times when I want to reinforce my lucidity. For example, you could condicionate yourself to reorganise your perception and increase your lucidity every time when you finished something. You may look on your palm to saying similar suggestions: "now I'll settle down on that roof then I'll look on my palm and I'll be fully conscious again knowing who am I and what I want to accomplish" And you just do that. When you look up from your palm, let's say you see a shining, obviosuly very spiritual being and you decide to ask him (?) about the purpose of the life of gnats or chickens we eat, so you said to yourself: "Now I'm going to ask this purple being about this important questions but I'll look on my palm frequently during our conversation," etc. It works.

In dreams when I find myself in buildings having stable internal structure seemingly independent from my expectations, I usually have more time to look for bright objects when the dream finally decide to collapse. The bright, smooth skin beneath my thumbnail has saved me a couple of times. Also, rotating my palm to reflect more light is a great practice. These experiences makes me seriously think about the nature of our perception and the body we have in dreams.

Ideally a stabilization process goes like this: touching, hearing, seeing then the rest more subtle functions. This means that you are able to hold a dream only by grabbing some object you don't see at all. Of course, this is only a temporal solution and you should further stabilize the episode by switchin on your sight.

If the dream collapse despite all my efforts I suspend thinking and watch patiently stacking to the consciousness that I'm still surrounded by the previous dream scene. Silently holding the directions and general feelings of the dream environment around myself I patiently wait until the dream reform itself. If I lost my presence in the dream and found myself laying in the darkness again I could reenter the dream by "dragging" myself in its "direction" or I contionue to pretend that I'm still in the dream. However, most of the times I become very passive and observe what can I use to detach a new body. I use the separation method from the previous episode, if there was any. Otherwise the most common thing I used to do is increasing the level and frequency of internal noises. My favorite method is to concentrate at the top of my head and moving this focal point upward. Other occasions require other heurestic methods based on previous experiences. I do one of this this as long as I start to feel a phantom I could separate in by moving like log does in water.

Forced dream prolongation practices by reentering dreams or doing reseparations by all means is absolutery necessary to get more dream power, which is, as I hypothesized before, could be described as the increased ability of the brain and pineal gland to produce more melatonin and DMT on demand.

So maybe I am naturally deficient in the right chemicals for good OBE sight?
I doubt it. First, you need to be sure your body produce enough melatonin. As I said before, the body needs melatonin to induce and sustain sleep. Perhaps you need to do some sungazing to increse your serotonin level. You can see into the Sun for 2-5 seconds in every hour. If the sky is clouded the UV-radiation isn't lesser so be careful. According to the most famous sungazer, Hira Ratan Manek, gazing into the Sun in the first hour after sunrise or in the last hour before sunset is secure up to 45 minutes, provided if you increase the time of your sessions gradually by a rate around 10 seconds per day.

After the sungazing session is over I close my eyes to concentrate on the bright afterimage and the centre of my scull. This is a great excercise for the pineal gland.

Melatonin synthesis require darkness. Even the light emission of CRT-monitors could delay melatonin synthesis for about 30 minutes. At the evening you may prefer to wear sunglasses in order to let your body to use the excess serotonin to produce superfluous melatonin for your spiritual purposes. Also, wearing sunglasses in the evening will delight your environment. If we can't assure people that what we are doing is useful, our duty is to entertain them. Make sure that your diet has enough tryptophan, vitamin B6 and Ca and remove all electrical gadgets (included your alarmclock) from the regio around your bed.  

I practice reentering dreams from luxus sleep as well by not thinking and focusing the last scene. By default, they last for a brief period of time (max. 1-2 minutes), but occasionally could be superstabilized by the simple twin or the polarity flip manoeuvres. However, to train yourself for long dream sessions or restart an old practice, you need to dream on more melatonin. For that purpose you should interrupt your sleep earlier than 6h. I have the most long lucid dreams (in real time) by interrupting sleep after the first 2 cycle (3,5h total bed time) and making my OBE-attempts after about 2-3h of wakefulness. Another good pattern is 5/2, but don't forget our sleep could be different. On the other hand, we are the same in that way that an abrupt wake-up could be very detrimental for a near-future OBE-attempt. Try to wake up right after a dream-period but limit your sleep by setting an alarm. I use the radio of the stereo system or my PC to wake me up. I get out of my bed and doze on my yoga blanket on my knees and with forehead on the floor until I wake up enough to find the bed lesser attractive.

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« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2004, 11:04:09 »


I think, we couldn't project into the astral until we are not capable to perceive the RTZ environment as it is. Without this skill our experiences are only lucid dreams, or at least, they are so heavily interpreted that cannot be considered otherwise than hallucinations.

There are two main feedback / control mechanisms which are able to keep our perception on the surface of RTZ:

1. Sensory feedback on a set of quality sensory inputs
2. Believing that you are indeed having an RTZ-OBE

As I see it, our field of vision in RTZ is composed from two types of pictures. One part of them somehow based on real sensory information, that is comes from "outside." The other part is internally generated by unconscious processes. By quality sensory input, I mean information that is not projected from the unconscious, but can be regarded as interpretations of energy fields generated by real, physical or non-physical objects. The energy body perceives those fields of their own and something translate them into pictures we know. This interpretation process is also heavily influenced by unconscious desires and beliefs. If there is no appropriate picture in our memory, the most appropriate will be used.

When inner dialogue is suppressed, presumptions don't contaminate the vision. You can keep your projection reasonably clear by sustaining silence and outward-directed awareness or regularly speaking aloud your intent to clear up your perception from phantoms. Constantly believing that you are having an OBE will result in the same effect, but it can be more powerful. However, it should be not a blind belief, but based on enhanced awareness and critical attitude. Without sufficient level of awareness, even criticism will fall and the experience will turn into some kind of pseudo-projection in which you obsessively try to validate your experiences on the basis of ad hoc created, false memories.

You could read 3 methods for converting LDs to OBEs on Marc Vandekeere's great home page @

In the following I describe a very basic method I've developed based on exercises from a Carlos Castaneda's book The Art Of Dreaming.


This method can be applied if you're in a very familiar, preferably enclosed place. The most appropriate place would be a little room, but not the same room where you sleep. The possibility to get a look of your sleeping body, at least at a subconscious level, will disturb the process. It can trap your attention, but most likely it has a repulsion effect. Also, in the third phase of the process (see later)the body will try to suck you in, causing a sense of imbalance, slanted floor, and more heavily distorted perception.

The best state from which you could start the excercise is similar to a false awakening that you have got into your conscious controll, that is entering a dream consciously by the sense of getting out of your bed, or the best, detaching your slumbering body. Regular lucid dreams will work too, but your awareness must be very keen. For that, enhance your awareness and stabilize the dream (see tips on Vandekeree's pages) before you walk/fly/teleport, etc. to the room you have chosed.

Stand in a point close to one of the corners and begin to move your attention along objects which outlook, place, and relative orientation you have memorized from your waking state beforehand seem correct. Focus on every objects for about 1-3 seconds. You have to change your focus when you recognize an object as whole thing, different entity from its environments (gestalt). This is not a visualization exercise. In this phase the most important thing is the relative position of the objects. Their exact look is a secondary issue that you will or won't correct. If the spatial organization is done, the process might become self-unfolding.

You aren't permitted to look on any object more than 2-4 seconds. You should move your attention constantly on those objects which seemed to be at their correct position and looks at least very similar to their waking counterparts. At the beginning you should move your attention to about 3-4 objects in every cycle before you go back to your starter point, a nucleus of the condensation process of your energy body.

In the fist stage, the nucleus could be your palm, or the knob of the door, or the display of a digital clock. Targeting the palm is easy because it is always at hand, however in the latter stages, looking on it will hinder the condensation process, because it is a hallucinated object. You should substitue your palm something you verified as an energetic object, for example a painting on the wall.

Recommended nucleuses in order of importance:
1. displays of digital clocks (I use 3 clocks at the same time: music center, alarm clock, computer display. First the numbers are instable, then begin to slow their changes, eventually reach the same time around rseal-time. It's very interesting that they always show slightly different times from the real time and each other.)
2. corners of the room, windows & doors (for the basic reconstruction in the first stage)
3. paintings, knob of the door
4. furnitures
5. plants
6. working electronic devices, metal objects (avoid to stand close to them)

Avoid TV sets, mirrors and objects outside of your window, and your body (if you prefer to exercise in your bedroom). Buy a negative ion generator and install it in the room where you'll try to condensate your energy body.

Your goal is to isolate and move your attention between real objects and disregard phantoms. To disregard phantoms you should avoid looking to objects that don't seem to be at the proper place, seems modified or totally unknown. Paradoxically, first you have to locate those phantom elements in order to disregard them. Later, if they still persist, you could work on them by changing them one by one, but in generally it is not recommended. Expectations powered by false memories could ruin your work by reality fluctuations.

As you proceed, you have to correct objects by visualizing them at the right place. You can change their position by holding the desired picture in your mind, looking away, speaking aloud your intent, and then looking back. First I often see a transparent version of the object, then I look away then back and find the dream object replaced by the solidified version of the visulised one. Basically, you could move your attention between verified nucleuses and let the scene change outside of your vision. But again, you have to keep your attention moving on real looking objects already properly placed.

I've found it work very well if I try to hold the feeling of all my verified nucleus at the same time regardless of your actual focus at that moment. The exact route my attention follow is not crucial however, I suspect, nor insignificant. I'm still not know the exact laws behind the fluctocondensation process.

When I've forced to abandon my OBE practices I was experimenting with externally generated bioplasm cables. I've found if I'm very close to the place where my body should be lying I could take my etheric substance from my body by using breathing excercises. I was doing this practice to get enough physicality to collapse a detector in the corner of my room and enpower my projections.

I suppose you would develop your own style in no time, but you have to excercise yourself while you're awake. Just do all the looking and focusing excercises in the same room you would in dreaming. Try to believe that you're indeed dreaming. This work is essential, because in dreaming there is no time for experimenting or making mistakes.


I've observed many stages of the condensation process, but I don't want to set obstructive expectations here. For example, in the first stage of de-phantomisation I could face a very serious problem: dream peoples will appear and try to hinder my exercise by all possible manner. This could be personal, perhaps you'll be free from them. The simplest method I've came up with was to lock the door of the room in the dream. I advise no violence at all because it will upset your mind and ruin the emotional athmosphere of the dream.

In the second stage (after the spatial reorganisation is done) your vision become very disrupt, composed from various mosaics (showing your room from odd directions at the same time) and the tunnel like quality of your vision become more apparent (inability to focus on the perifery of your vision). Also, you can't move your attention freely, because some direction seems inhibited. At this point your have to drop your palm and choose a stable, verified energetic object. Your energy body has reached the "octopus phase" in which it is supposedly composed from various little seeds and spurs around the nucleuses. In one direction you could see into the RTZ, in the opposite you are still hallucinating. If you quit at this point and fly out of your window, you may will be surprised by the domination of power-lines, antennas and weatherings in your dream.

Generally your field of vision will change from centrally active to being peripherally active, will get a more grayish hue, and/or disrupt into mosaics then open up again in the final stage. At one point you will feel yourself groggy, and you have difficulties with moving around, changing the angle of your perception or you will be moved by against of your will. Avoid trying to look in the direction of your body at the first couple of times. Latter it could be a nucleus and end sign of the condensatio process.

In the final stage your movements become temporally difficult, then replaced by floating and jumping styled sliding. Eventually your legs will disappear and your body will turn into a blob of attention. At this point you are in the real time zone.


Order yourself to hold your current state. Supress internal dialog by observing your environment without expectations. Until you hold your peripheral vision, don't focus on details, don't carry massive internal dialogue / expectations, and don't be upset by strong emotions you will still be in the RTZ - or at least, close enough to it to being able to restore your vision by commanding your system to disregard hallucinatory intrusions. Don't try to move through narrow entrances, windows, doors with great speed, and avoid any other abrupt changes in your perception. Avoid insides of walls and conversations with other peoples or creatures.

Signs of being in the RTZ:

- The room seems larger and distant as you would see through a lensed peephole
- Sometimes you could see in all direction at the same time
- Ability to open up enclosed spaces in the distance or zooming to them
- Glowing halo around some objects, others emanate fear and electricity
- Ability to going through walls without tricks (getting in backward, forming sensory sporas, etc.)
- Flying is disrupted by small leaps
- Uncontrolled movements, drifts along wires, walls of buildings
- Inability to fly away by power-lines (you are forced to fly through or along them)
- Appearance of weird objects that emanate electricity & fear
- Changing your location between distant places without apparent moving

Don't fight with the natural laws: let yourself sliding along walls and the ground. Flying close to surfaces seems to have a stabilizing effect, presumably due to the izopotentials and surface-accumulated ions which from the bulk of the RTZ body is supposed to be composed.

The time you're able to spend in the RTZ is limited. From the very moment you abandoned the enclosed practices your environment start contaminated again. Slipping back into dreaming is a seamaless process.

Signs of leaving the RTZ:

- Multiplied or transparent pictures of some objects, buildings, the moon (like in the second stage of the enclosed practice of condensation)
- Uncontrolled drift by an unseen force (just above the RTZ)
- The image of your body is reappear (however you have arms even in RTZ if you try to grab something)
- Too many power-lines (they are everywhere!)
- People are start to noticing you (this could happen in the RTZ as well but people will not remember the conversation)

You could recondensate your energy body by speaking aloud your intent and/or carefully directing your attention. Simply order your system to disrecard sensory junks and other phantoms and avoid looking on objects that seem transparent or changed. You are able to use distant seeds of your energy body to travel distant places. Order your target onto the horizon then zoom onto its picture. You'll find yourself in the collective dream regio of your target from which, if you want to, you are still able to recondensate your energy body into the RTZ.

You could zoom onto a distant building by forcefully locking your attention on it. After 5-20 sec of intense focusing you'll feel a strong pull. If you let go at taht point, you will find yourself being accelerated on a straight line right in the direction of the object you focus on. Close objects will not pull you only form vortices. Starting from a more dream like environment your movements likely will be similar to some kind of fractional zooming onto a picture. If your destination is dimensionally more distant zooming will not work (the focused object is hallucinated). However, if you succeded to get a picture of a RTZ or astral object you'll be throwed through a hazy tunnel with tremendous speed. At your destination you could slow down your pace by gradually spreading out your attention. Be careful, if you fail you'll shoot over your target and find yourself without anything comprehensible to hold your perception on.

As a general rule, long focusing on objects required to succesful zooming could disrupt RTZ-states where the main sensory feedback seems to occurs via the periferal vision. However, if you're already out of the RTZ slightly (which is normally occur all the time when you operate and travel in RTZ) you could use zooming. After a couple of zooming your energy body will reorganise itself by loosing extra seeds and become localised in the RTZ again.

And of course, as always, if you feel yourself disorientated or lost, remember that you are able to command your energy body. Just order it  get you out of the hallucination or take you to your target by passively letting it to soar on a trajectory which would be beyond your control and reason.
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2005, 04:14:08 »

How can you ever perceive the RTZ environment as it is?
Do you really know how it really is?Huh

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