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Author Topic: Drugs  (Read 45083 times)
Babar
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« on: April 29, 2005, 07:48:32 »

Has anybody tried using drugs as a means to attain the experiense like: ie Nitrous Oxide, dmt, Ketamine  etc etc?
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schotzi
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2005, 09:31:24 »

I really wouldn't call it drugs but I like to take Melatonin sometimes. It helps make dreams more "vivid" and it is easier to lucid dream when taking it. Doesn't seem to help much on OBEs though.
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2005, 09:31:24 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Selski
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2005, 10:39:00 »

Personally, I find that if someone has had an experience whilst on a particular drug, I don't qualify it as a "genuine" experience.

I mean, if you chomp away on a handful of mushrooms, and then start seeing things and so on, wouldn't you always think to yourself "well, hey, that was some experience, but it was the mushrooms - it wasn't really me."  And you could end up relying on mushrooms, which is pretty grim, cause they taste horrible (so I've been told...)

I believe drugs totally invalidates an experience.  That's my opinion anyway.

Sarah
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2005, 10:47:40 »

Yeah, I agree Selski. In fact not only will it invalidate the first experience, it may even cause doubts of future experiences not caused by drugs.

Finally,  I advise not to circumvent the natural order of things, but try astral projection the natural, albeit, hard way. As with all quick fixes, there is always some price to pay - and it may not be worth it, it could even forfeit your success in astral projection forever.
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FEMMSTARR
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2005, 11:09:01 »

Quote from: data
Yeah, I agree Selski. In fact not only will it invalidate the first experience, it may even cause doubts of future experiences not caused by drugs.

Finally,  I advise not to circumvent the natural order of things, but try astral projection the natural, albeit, hard way. As with all quick fixes, there is always some price to pay - and it may not be worth it, it could even forfeit your success in astral projection forever.


so you would say the same thing about the brain wave entrainment programs?
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2005, 11:09:01 »



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alexd
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2005, 12:46:03 »

Brainwave files entrain your brain, to the best of my knowledge they do not hinder your natural potential.

I have read that people often project naturally when in hospital and given certain sedatives or drugs.

I'm not sure if drugs make it easier to project in the future (from what I have heard it is easier in future once you have left the body the first time), but I wouldn't take them just for the sake of projecting. If I was already using something like this I would use it as a "push" and then try to do it without depending on anything, like with brainwave files.


Alex
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2005, 13:03:58 »

Quote from: alexd
Brainwave files entrain your brain, to the best of my knowledge they do not hinder your natural potential.

I have read that people often project naturally when in hospital and given certain sedatives or drugs.

I'm not sure if drugs make it easier to project in the future (from what I have heard it is easier in future once you have left the body the first time), but I wouldn't take them just for the sake of projecting. If I was already using something like this I would use it as a "push" and then try to do it without depending on anything, like with brainwave files.


Alex



lol I know you are going to think this is crazy but when I got out of the hospital just recently they gave me a pain med called talwin I dont know what kind of pain med it is but I had back surgery and do you know when I was on that medicine I could actually tell what my dog was thinking

well I can tell you I only told one person of that incident  cheesy  and I wont tell another soul about it

but that medicine was very strong and I took a double dose as I hurt myself right after surgery I actually reopened my incision and had to go to the emergency room but the person I told will never let me hear the end of that one

mental telepathy with a chihuahua

but it was real she was telling me there werent any bones out in the place where I put them out for them

well I got up and went into the kitchen and sure enough there wasnt any bones in there so I put her a few out

it was really nice to know what she was thinking for a change but I wonder what she thought of me getting up and getting the bones for her?

I did stop taking the medicine though because that was too strange for me
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data
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2005, 17:48:51 »

Femmstar, that sounds very interesting.

As regards to:

Quote
so you would say the same thing about the brain wave entrainment programs?


No, but within limits as well. The purpose of mind entraining music/sound, is to acclimate your mind to different states of awareness, so that you recall these states more easily. However, if you overly use it to do this, or need to use it to create these states, you may become dependent on them. Much like one becomes dependent on drugs.

To use sounds, is not unnatural. The importance of sounds to cause shifts in awareness has been known for a long time, hence why we use mantras.

All drugs will do, will undermine your own control over your mind, and you don't want that. You want to have presence of mind. You want to be in control over your mind. Drugs, will impair your consciousness, especially hallucinogens, and make you more susceptible to negative influences, and according to many, insidious negative entities.


I personally do not take any mind altering substances, from alcohol, nicotine, tobacco, and very minimal(if any) caffeine. I have almost eliminated all soda and pop drinks from my diet, and gone to drinking fresh juices and water. Water in particular is full of life energy and it essential for psychic development and meditation.
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2005, 18:23:30 »

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mental telepathy with a chihuahua


Hehehe..that made me chuckle!   My mom has a chihuahua..I call it rat just to tick her off..Tongue  I'll add a photo of "Coco" dressed in her finest..

Anyhoo..  have you ever heard of the Pet Psychic?  I totally believe that lady is hearing thoughts from animals.  So, maybe you did too?  Try it when you are not on the pills.  I had a dog that I swear was my best friend...I talked to him just like I am to you and he understood.   He protected me when I needed it and I for him. (eh, abusive ex-hubby)  I think the more we interact with our "pets"  the more aware (more human) they get. Smiley   Now if I could only feel that connection with the two cats I have....*sigh*

Ok..I got off topic....ummmm..don't do drugs..and shrooms?  don't do them..did them ONCE and freaked out on wallpaper... dang thang came to life right in front of my eyes!! shocked  And that is not a good thing when it comes to country style wallpaper..... all those chickens, ducks and wheelbarrows...... I was in hell.. Tongue

Nay
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schotzi
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2005, 19:40:10 »

Selski

I agree 100%. I don't even try anything if I had something to drink no matter how small amount.
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Selski
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2005, 20:24:00 »

Quote from: Nay
Ok..I got off topic....ummmm..don't do drugs..and shrooms?  don't do them..did them ONCE and freaked out on wallpaper... dang thang came to life right in front of my eyes!! shocked  And that is not a good thing when it comes to country style wallpaper..... all those chickens, ducks and wheelbarrows...... I was in hell.. Tongue

Nay


Nay - that's hilarious - I love it!!!  Glad to see you back in the swing gal.  (I once spent 6 hours giggling on shrooms... (took far too many) - my jaw ached like hell the next day)   wink

PS  Love the pooch.

Sarah
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2005, 20:36:26 »

Quote from: Selski
Quote from: Nay
Ok..I got off topic....ummmm..don't do drugs..and shrooms?  don't do them..did them ONCE and freaked out on wallpaper... dang thang came to life right in front of my eyes!! shocked  And that is not a good thing when it comes to country style wallpaper..... all those chickens, ducks and wheelbarrows...... I was in hell.. Tongue

Nay


Nay - that's hilarious - I love it!!!  Glad to see you back in the swing gal.  (I once spent 6 hours giggling on shrooms... (took far too many) - my jaw ached like hell the next day)   wink

PS  Love the pooch.

Sarah


LOL..that was the thing..   No one told me that I didn't need to eat two of them!!  I kept waiting and waiting for the effect to take hold......Oh, boy...those were the days..lol   Friends that gave you stuff for free and then failed to tell you the outcome..  wink   I did have a funny moment though, that I will never forget.  

My girlfriend was in on this retarded high with me.  We got a ride into Atlanta...and goodness the lights were grand..but then she started yelling..and I mean YELLING that the girl in the other care was on fire..shocked   I look over and calmly mind you, say....."ummmm, she is smoking a cigg"  LOL..  She saw the smoke and honestly thought this chick was on fire!!  Funniest thing ever.....LOL...I still chuckle after twenty some odd years. Cheesy

Nay
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Ben K
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2005, 00:15:25 »

Drugs allow for a more subjective reality. Depending on the drug there are different levels of subjectivity, and different senses involved. I think, for example, Acid affects your visual senses, ie. hallucinations. It also affects your audio(so im told, never done it ;P) in the form of audio hallucinations. Much weaker drugs, like marijuana, offer barely any subjectivity, but it is still there in some forms.(Eating maybe? Grin)

Some people like this. Some people op for the more objective reality. Some are scared of the unkown. But it is not anyones right to tell anyone else what to and what not to put in there bodies.

Just my 2 sense.
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jilola
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2005, 00:19:20 »

Perhaps the correct metaphor in regard to entheogenic drugs is Mt. Everest, a helicopter and what happens when one gets suddenly  dumped on top on the said mountain.
Altitude sickness. Eh?

The point being, one can get there in many ways but some are less drastic tha others and the same more constructive.

One can get to the Titanic hugging an anchor and in a submarine. Choose.

2cents & L&L
Jouni
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FEMMSTARR
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2005, 06:23:50 »

Quote from: Nay
Quote
mental telepathy with a chihuahua


Hehehe..that made me chuckle!   My mom has a chihuahua..I call it rat just to tick her off..Tongue  I'll add a photo of "Coco" dressed in her finest..

Anyhoo..  have you ever heard of the Pet Psychic?  I totally believe that lady is hearing thoughts from animals.  So, maybe you did too?  Try it when you are not on the pills.  I had a dog that I swear was my best friend...I talked to him just like I am to you and he understood.   He protected me when I needed it and I for him. (eh, abusive ex-hubby)  I think the more we interact with our "pets"  the more aware (more human) they get. Smiley   Now if I could only feel that connection with the two cats I have....*sigh*

Ok..I got off topic....ummmm..don't do drugs..and shrooms?  don't do them..did them ONCE and freaked out on wallpaper... dang thang came to life right in front of my eyes!! shocked  And that is not a good thing when it comes to country style wallpaper..... all those chickens, ducks and wheelbarrows...... I was in hell.. Tongue

Nay


The dog is most beautiful looks like my sugar only she is white and yes I do understand her I am sure I know this dog from another life without a doubt but she usually lets me know what she wants with her body language hearing it out loud in my head freaked me out

I dont use drugs to meditate or astral or the brain wave entrainment either but I am considering getting a cd as my obe's are far and few between and its not always easy getting out but I do manage sometimes

I really wish you could send that pic of that dog to my email acct I am at work and cannot download and my pc at home has to go to the shop but I would love to use that pic for my wallpaper on my pc

if you look at my yahoo profile its femmstarr@yahoo.com you can look at my photo album and see my little chihuahua

I will admit I have some pictures from a gallery called nature is a freak so just letting you know mr and mrs carrot will be in there I hope you dont get offended at naughty nature pics lol they are too funny

I have heard of the pet psychic and I think she is real but it felt too freaky to me I just switched over to ibuprofen that is better for me

I thinnk dogs may astral too though as I think one time a long time ago I saw a dog while out
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2005, 06:33:58 »

Quote from: Ben K
Drugs allow for a more subjective reality. Depending on the drug there are different levels of subjectivity, and different senses involved. I think, for example, Acid affects your visual senses, ie. hallucinations. It also affects your audio(so im told, never done it ;P) in the form of audio hallucinations. Much weaker drugs, like marijuana, offer barely any subjectivity, but it is still there in some forms.(Eating maybe? Grin)

Some people like this. Some people op for the more objective reality. Some are scared of the unkown. But it is not anyones right to tell anyone else what to and what not to put in there bodies.

Just my 2 sense.


I agree with you on this if people want to say no to drugs they will and if not they wont and I consider it their business if they want to do them

I havent been using anything to help me astral and I have been working on doing it on purpose as opposed to just finding myself out sometimes

and I am getting there slowly but surely have made it out a few times in the last couple of months but my work got interrupted when I was in the hospital for almost a month so now I am having to start all over

that saying if you dont use it you will lose it is true in my case  Cheesy
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Ben K
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2005, 09:56:25 »

Quote from: jilola
Perhaps the correct metaphor in regard to entheogenic drugs is Mt. Everest, a helicopter and what happens when one gets suddenly  dumped on top on the said mountain.
Altitude sickness. Eh?

The point being, one can get there in many ways but some are less drastic tha others and the same more constructive.

One can get to the Titanic hugging an anchor and in a submarine. Choose.

2cents & L&L
Jouni


The fact of the matter is you cant. You say "Ah yes, drugs are only a shortcut" when in fact its the same nonsense as telling me not to use a car, because we have legs. Drugs are an experiance, and there "mystic" nature draws alot of people who simply are too rooted in there objective reality to want to experiance something like an acid trip. But im not going to preach to them, its there business.

If one is smart and can see drugs for what they really are, i believe its fine. The real danger is when someone say, thinks they become a shaman because they have crazy visuals when they trip on muhsrooms. Theres no enlightenment to be found in drugs. Only if you create it.
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data
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2005, 12:46:33 »

Well prolonged  usage of drugs is not good for the mind and health, as they create dependencies, and further harm normal functions.  Many of the recreational drugs are potentially dangerous even in short use. Many also have what is called a "crash" phase, that is after temporary beneficial effects, there are rather unpleasent effects. So there is something inheretly not good about drugs.

To me, personally, it's like saying which poison is good for you, or if someone wants to ingest poison, should I stop them. At the end of the day I believe everyone should have the right to make their choices, and if that is their choice, then no one has a right to stop them, but every right to tell them why they think it is wrong.
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jilola
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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2005, 14:09:46 »

Quote
You say "Ah yes, drugs are only a shortcut" when in fact its the same nonsense as telling me not to use a car, because we have legs

Didn't say they are just] a short cut or a shortcut at all.
The bit about trying to reach the Titanic should've been the clue.

No worries though. I've with you in that I agree drugs will never (hardly ever at anyy rate)  yield any useable results. Just like freediving to the Titanic won't result in you actually getting there.

2cents & L&L
Jouni
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Ben K
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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2005, 20:26:21 »

Quote from: data
Well prolonged  usage of drugs is not good for the mind and health, as they create dependencies, and further harm normal functions.  Many of the recreational drugs are potentially dangerous even in short use. Many also have what is called a "crash" phase, that is after temporary beneficial effects, there are rather unpleasent effects. So there is something inheretly not good about drugs.


No pain no gain Wink

But saying there is something inherently not good about drugs is saying there is something inherently not good about a knife. It all depends on the person. And most drugs are only dangerous when

1. You dont know what you are doing

2. You know the drugs is particularly harmful/habit forming but do it anyway(crack, etc)

Dependency is a funny word. If you mean you need the drug to create the normal chemicals the body would create anyway, then yes, that can be bad. But the brain will start to create these chemicals again after you stop taking the drug for awhile. If you mean you "need the drug to get through the day" type thing, eh i guess it depends on the situation.

It all comes down to moderation. Just like everything else in life. And as long as you know that drugs are not expanded awareness in a capsule or such youll be fine.
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Ben K
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2005, 20:29:40 »

Quote from: Ben K
Quote from: data
Well prolonged  usage of drugs is not good for the mind and health, as they create dependencies, and further harm normal functions.  Many of the recreational drugs are potentially dangerous even in short use. Many also have what is called a "crash" phase, that is after temporary beneficial effects, there are rather unpleasent effects. So there is something inheretly not good about drugs.


No pain no gain Wink

But saying there is something inherently not good about drugs is saying there is something inherently not good about a knife. It all depends on the person. And most drugs are only dangerous when

1. You dont know what you are doing

2. You know the drugs is particularly harmful/habit forming but do it anyway(crack, etc)

Dependency is a funny word. If you mean you need the drug to create the normal chemicals the body would create anyway, then yes, that can be bad. But the brain will start to create these chemicals again after you stop taking the drug for awhile. If you mean you "need the drug to get through the day" type thing, eh i guess it depends on the situation.

It all comes down to moderation. Just like everything else in life. And as long as you know that drugs are not expanded awareness in a capsule or such youll be fine.


Quote
Didn't say they are just] a short cut or a shortcut at all.
The bit about trying to reach the Titanic should've been the clue.

No worries though. I've with you in that I agree drugs will never (hardly ever at anyy rate) yield any useable results. Just like freediving to the Titanic won't result in you actually getting there.


Haha, its all good. I dont mean just you necessarily, but alot of people attitudes are drugs are a "shortcut" or a "taste" of what you can achieve. While yes, what you can achieve through hard work and focus is 20x better than anything that can happen to you while you are on LSD, it is probably impossible to create the chemicals that lsd creates in your brain on your own.

And as for results from taking them, usually its just a good time!  Cool
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jilola
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2005, 21:33:47 »

Quote
Haha, its all good. I dont mean just you necessarily, but alot of people attitudes are drugs are a "shortcut" or a "taste" of what you can achieve. While yes, what you can achieve through hard work and focus is 20x better than anything that can happen to you while you are on LSD, it is probably impossible to create the chemicals that lsd creates in your brain on your own


No worries. The thing I suspect you were hinting at is that one needs to bear in mind that drugs are more like a photograph of of the Sistine Chapel, not the thing itself. Thus it's a fallacy to expect any drug to do anything other than to give a glimpse of what can ge achived. The work still has to be done to reach it.

Fun, yes. A quick look at a (not the) goal, yes. A means to an end, yes. A solution, no. An escape, no.
And let's not even breach the subject of nonentheogenic drugs (or physiogenics as I like to call them.) Those are just bad bad news and no two ways about it.

User beware, eh?

2cents & L&L
Jouni
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« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2005, 00:57:50 »

Quote
But saying there is something inherently not good about drugs is saying there is something inherently not good about a knife. It all depends on the person. And most drugs are only dangerous when

1. You dont know what you are doing

2. You know the drugs is particularly harmful/habit forming but do it anyway(crack, etc)


Well, if you are arguing it all in intention of use, I think that is largely out of your control, because drugs are base on chemicals, that elicit physical  reactions in the body and mind. If you use any drug, particularly class A and class B, it will have harmful effects. Now, sometimes, those who don't experience side effects, may claim that this clears them of harmful effects, however we know that after a certain use or dosage, they do cause harmful effects in many. While, it may not seem obvious, because the effects are not manifest on the surface, it is likely there are subtle unconscious and physiological effects. Hence, why I say, they are inherently bad.

If tiny bad things are allowed to accumulate, they will eventually amount into something much bigger. This can be anything from bad cholestrol, drugs, alcohol, nicotine, drugs, stress, anger etc

Now in terms of the non physical effects, according to healers, in particular a NASA scientist who wrote the book "Hands of light" she reported how  there were certain  disfigurations in the aura of smokers and drug users. Now, even though I have no way to verify this, but as a general rule of thumb for me, everytime we circumvent nature and use substances that compromise our control over our mind, we are harming ourselves.  So I would not be surprised if drugs were actually harming the soul. Now, I needn't argue how harmful drugs are.  They are harmful.

Even drugs used in western medicine can be harmful. Drugs, in general, are harmful.

Quote
Dependency is a funny word. If you mean you need the drug to create the normal chemicals the body would create anyway, then yes, that can be bad. But the brain will start to create these chemicals again after you stop taking the drug for awhile. If you mean you "need the drug to get through the day" type thing, eh i guess it depends on the situation.


Most drugs, even some legal medicinal drugs, can cause what is called psychological and/or physical dependence. Some people, may only have to take a drug once or twice, before they become addicted. It depends mostly on the drug being used.

Quote
It all comes down to moderation. Just like everything else in life. And as long as you know that drugs are not expanded awareness in a capsule or such youll be fine.


It is not quite as simple. If I took poison in moderation, it's not quite the same as taking alcohol or nicotine in moderation.
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Ben K
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« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2005, 04:33:05 »

Quote from: jilola


User beware, eh?

2cents & L&L
Jouni


Buy the ticket, take the ride...

Quote
Well, if you are arguing it all in intention of use, I think that is largely out of your control, because drugs are base on chemicals, that elicit physical reactions in the body and mind. If you use any drug, particularly class A and class B, it will have harmful effects. Now, sometimes, those who don't experience side effects, may claim that this clears them of harmful effects, however we know that after a certain use or dosage, they do cause harmful effects in many. While, it may not seem obvious, because the effects are not manifest on the surface, it is likely there are subtle unconscious and physiological effects. Hence, why I say, they are inherently bad.

If tiny bad things are allowed to accumulate, they will eventually amount into something much bigger. This can be anything from bad cholestrol, drugs, alcohol, nicotine, drugs, stress, anger etc


how can you elicit a physical reaction in your non physical mind?

Yes, drugs do harm your physical body to an extent, i wasnt arguing that. But everything you put into your body is harmful to a certain extent. The only subtle unconsious and psychcological effects would be magnifying problems you already have. ie. if your depressed, it isnt going to help. And usually, problems dealing with drugs come from the person either obtaining them, or reacting badly to the drug.(There is a risk factor in everything you do in life.)

DXM is a cough suppresent that in high doses can make you trip. But is it inherently bad because of that?

moderation, moderation, moderation. with everything in life from sex to t.v. to food to religion to work etc etc..

Wink
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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2005, 09:46:32 »

Quote from: Ben K
Quote from: jilola


User beware, eh?

2cents & L&L
Jouni


Buy the ticket, take the ride...

Quote

moderation, moderation, moderation. with everything in life from sex to t.v. to food to religion to work etc etc..

Wink


This is exactly my belief a beer with friends or a joint with the girls once in a while is not a problem  as your body can over come that but a gallon of alcohol in a day will leave permanent damage to your liver and smoking an ounce of pot a day will leave considerable damage to your lungs

all things in moderation
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