Drugs

[jilola]

I REALLY don't want to push buttons, but some of you guys make it so inviting...i can't help myself.
Quote:
drugs will never (hardly ever at any rate) yield any usable results. Just like free diving to the Titanic won't result in you actually getting there.
...tell that to Vincent Van Gogh, Edgar Allen Poe, Alister Crowley, Da Vinci, Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, Degas, Toulouse-Lautrec, Gauguin, Picasso, Andrew Jackson,Teddy Roosevelt, Ernest Hemingway, Jack London (not to mention the more current artists), and almost every GREAT mind in history!!! (of course very few people a have a true appreciation for sheer genius these days, but i'll add that the Olsin Twins, Eminem, and Sponge Bob Square Pants...all definite drug users!) P.S. submarine or freediving? aren't we forgetting the simple and efficient astral travel?!? This duality must end guys...if we're ever going to get out of the box.

So you are saying they were geniuses as a result of using drugs? Or they were already geniuses who chose to use drugs? There's a diffference.

What you failed to pick up from my post, especially the freediving analogy, is that it referred to the idea people have that drugs will result in instantaneous spiritual gain and thus fall into using them for all the wrong reasons.
I have no trouble accepting people using any substance they care of use andd given a chance and the proper circumstances I'd probably join some of them.

But you did push oine button: Olsen Twins and Spongebob are geniuses? Who'dve'thunk!


2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Souljah333]

Babar started a thread

Has anybody tried using drugs as a means to attain the experiense like: ie Nitrous Oxide, dmt, Ketamine etc etc?

Good question, although the with hindsight it probably should have concluded with "how are the effects different when taking drugs vs. not taking drugs...then it would have left less room for speculation.

Minus BenK and myself...6 pages have been written by those who are NOT drug user's...(stating mostly the drastic downfalls, the poisonous attributes, and oh-so-typically winding up on the point  of illegality. (we all know these things)(we all know so damn much about everything...don't we). And may it be understood that I have a problem...not with any individuals right to live in whatever mindset they choose, nor to contemplate the things or worlds outside...but to ignorantly (sorry there is no other word) draw boxes around other people, and force that their (conditioned) view point, supported by the majority of "decent/upstanding/functional/law-abiding" citizens it the ONLY CORRECT function....but on to the free-diving issue...

What does the Titanic represent? A legend? A piece of our history that sleeps in the quiet depths of the ocean...longing to be discovered? What does the ocean represent? A world outside our normal function? A mystic playground full of unimaginable things? Something we are ultimately connected to that is as familiar as home? Astral Pulse would then be a place for those who have on summer vacation (in between important things of life) frolicked in it's refreshing, wet, and conductive glory. Is it not also a place for those that have ventured out further, and those who have yet to venture? Is there no space for the stories and experiences of those that HAVE BEEN THERE, and survived?!? I JUST HATE IT (AND I TRY NOT TO HATE ANYTHING). I CAN'T STAND DUALITY!!! I can't help myself when it ALWAYS has to be one side or the other. Drugs are okay/Drugs are evil. Submarine or free-dive...republican or democrat...teachers pet or drop out...fun loving whore, or frigid b*tch?
Oh, all the s**t that is MISSED in the middle!!!

Everything that society has taught us does NOTHING but WEAKEN us! Can't anyone SEE that??? So weak we feel ourselves to be that even someones point of view that does not conform with our own, must be smashed, and any light that might by chance lead us astray...must be immediately snuffed out. So weak that we fear a cigarette might kill us, a drink might bind us to the devil, a prostitute might deflower or purity, an insane freak might contaminate us somehow. There are still people in this world that believe that black people carry diseases that are contagious. Don't think that your beliefs are far from that mentality.

I was a vegetarian for ten years, and I mention this bcuz of some of the earlier posts where I caught an inkling of selfrightouseness in this area. It was a personal choice and path to explore for whatever reasons...but daily I was attacked for my beliefs (which at the time were strong and emotional)...It was bizarre how I felt people were waiting to POUNCE at every corner. On top of that I felt a need to constantly refine my direction...till I drove myself nuts over it. From vegetarian, to vegan, to raw-foodist...and the world that surrounded me appeared more vile and unhealthy then ever...the air, the water, the people. I went down that path as far as I could and things around me just got harder to deal with...bcuz I am an Empath...so...ultimately it can never be just about me. The things that are most miraculous about us as (and around us) have nothing to do with what we think. Every function from blinking to heart-beat, from breathing to digestion...happens on it's own. (even putting one foot down in front of the other)...
For some reason we put so much stock in our heads, in the conclusion of who we "think we are" and "what we SHOULD be doing", but who we think we are (in general) is a sad thing that has been force-fed, and what we think we should be doing is even further from the truth...and here we are stuck...and here we shall remain. Drugs are not the ANSWER, but unconventionally throughout time, they do/have offer/ed a glimpse outside the box.

Again I am cornered by a question with the pre-requisite of two answers.

So you are saying they were geniuses as a result of using drugs? Or they were already geniuses who chose to use drugs? There's a difference.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh (long, exhausted sigh).

They're just genius! We are all genius! Tap into it however you want. There is however a massive structure that works against you...know this!
Everything established in this world is constructed to KEEP YOU FROM THAT GENIUS!!! KEEP YOU WEAK & WANTING! All of them are built with extreme subtlety. Some of these geniuses even helped (unknowingly) to pave the way.

Brilliance...some people wear sun glasses to cut down on the light, some people eat trash to keep themselves filtered from the energy, some people take "legitimate" drugs to try and keep themselves grounded, but we are all slipping off into the cosmos and no anchor is strong enough to hold us down. soon you will not need to take drugs to experience the most mind-bending trip you could ever imagine...i promise you that!

and this website and everyone's opinions will have never existed.

BenK what is your reason for drawing a line between poppy seeds and morning glory seeds? I'm not surprised you didn't like the DXM, when you think about the trip it took before it got to you...I can't see where it would be anywhere near pleasant.  There's a huge difference between smoking pot that's grown outside in the wonder of natural elements, and pot that's grown in a closet under artificial light with thrash music blaring 24-7. This knowledge is an important factor to anyone that's traveling the magic path of plants/chemicals.

No one around with any shrum experience? Just curious...

thanks to no_leaf_clover for the welcoming
 

the Olsin twins, Eminem & Sponge Bob reference was to lighten the mood, and also as a bit of slight since I am assuming (i know...) that I am out numbered by a younger mentality here. I never implied they were genius, but...why the hell not?!?  

and I can't believe I forget my most favorite drug addict of all
LEWIS CARROLL!!! (all genius aside)
BLESS HIS BEAUTIFUL SOUL!

back @ ya
333

[jilola]

Tell me, soulJah, who's tried to prevent you from telling your story? From doing whatever you wish?

The Titanic was an analogy for the enlightenment experience, in case you missed it. Certainly drugs will get you there but for many the drugs do get out of hand. Not because of the drugs themselves, but because they are used recklessly.

Again, as so often before, a discussion about drugs and their use is perilously close to becoming a two sided rantathon with both sides building ever higher soapboxes.

They're just genius! We are all genius! Tap into it however you want. There is however a massive structure that works against you...know this!
Everything established in this world is constructed to KEEP YOU FROM THAT GENIUS!!! KEEP YOU WEAK & WANTING! All of them are built with extreme subtlety. Some of these geniuses even helped (unknowingly) to pave the way

Good thing you're savvy to that. Most people confuse the order of things and think drugs will create genius and give all the answers. Glad to hear you're not one.

  I got your joke withe Olsens, no worries. But I still had to respond to a button being pressed.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Souljah333]

What difference does it make if "I" said they were genius because of taking drugs, or they were geniuses that took drugs? REALLY?!?
I honor their work. Not because it's hip or trendy, not because it's the right thing to do.  If you notice there is a total lack of female genius throughout history, but that's a different gripe. Christ...I have a very strong reason to believe that the bible itself was written by some very heavy drug user's.
My opinions mean nothing!!!  They do not sum up who I am, and they definitely don't exist to define who you are...'nough said.

Always be grateful that there is more than ONE path.
Celebrate all the difference no matter how on point you think you are!

333
 

[Souljah333]

Certainly drugs will get you there but for many the drugs do get out of hand. Not because of the drugs themselves, but because they are used recklessly.

When aren't humans reckless???
 
The word "drug" is funny to me, most likely one of the poorest defined words in the dictionary. Take a mushroom for instance...completely harmless unto itself. Where did come from? Why is it there? It isn't bad, or evil, or powerful in anyway, shape or form. It just is. Something within our chemical make up and the mushrooms chemical make up meld. It awakens something in us. This cannot be defined, defended or dismissed.  Every single plant has some magic to it, some medicinal quality in reaction to our physical bodies. I defend all plants! I would never think to separate the good from the bad...what is that function???
We are already connected to a higher consciousness that is rightfully ours...though we are currently hanging on by a thread...there is talk of coming round full circle in regards to the 2012 shift.

What is being discussed here has nothing at all to do with drugs. It has to do soul-ly with the state of the human condition! People are really f**ked up, and what's the fun in discussing that? If we started talking about what we as humans should keep away from...I don't think the list would end. If we follow that line of thinking...the majority should avoid sex as well, anything with a sharp point, or anything that involves interaction whatsoever, bcuz humans understand so little (if anything) about cause and effect...where animals on the other hand we never cursed with the ability of contemplation.

What a tangled web we weave!
333

[jilola]

What difference does it make if "I" said they were genius because of taking drugs, or they were geniuses that took drugs? REALLY?!?
I honor their work. Not because it's hip or trendy, not because it's the right thing to do. If you notice there is a total lack of female genius throughout history, but that's a different gripe. Christ...I have a very strong reason to believe that the bible itself was written by some very heavy drug user's.
My opinions mean nothing!!! They do not sum up who I am, and they definitely don't exist to define who you are...'nough said.

None whatsoever. And to point out that nobody's claimed you said anything to that effect is redundant.


2cents & L&L
Jouni[/quote]

[Babar]

My philosophy is that Drugs don't make people crazy, other people make people crazy.  Ive used many psychedelic drugs and can honestly say Its not that big of a deal.  I remember reading in high times magazine a few years ago an interview with the infamous guru Andrew Weil where he explained that you can have much more profound experiences using your own mind than you could ever have from a drug, at the time I just kinda scoffed at the idea, to me it was typical "hippie" mumbo-jumbo, but really he was right. After all people have the most primo drugs all ready built in vivo, Endorphins, serotonin, dopamine etc. IMO People give drugs way to much credit, whether it be positive or negative.

[Souljah333]

So you are saying they were geniuses as a result of using drugs? Or they were already geniuses who chose to use drugs? There's a diffference.

Let's run with the redundant thing......shall we?!?
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE OH WISE ONE?

challenge: can you respond without making it black & white???

taunt, taunt
 
333

[no_leaf_clover]

Regarding the original post..

Has anybody tried using drugs as a means to attain the experiense like: ie Nitrous Oxide, dmt, Ketamine etc etc?

There was one experience I read that advised against the use of LSD that I thought was interesting, regarding this.

The person reported having OBEs and thinking she was dead, panicking, and having a very bad trip. Therefore, she recommended no one ever try LSD.

I guess this just goes along with what Frank said. This girl was having spontaneous out of body experiences, but because she didn't properly understand what was happening to her, it was a bad experience for her. She was doing it as a silly social thing with friends anyway.


Ben K,

Did the morning glories give you any ill-feelings? I've read that there are two toxins within the seeds that, unless removed, cause unpleasantness in the line of stomach pains and headaches. Did you experience anything like this, or did you extract the LSA beforehand?

[Babar]

The person reported having OBEs and thinking she was dead, panicking, and having a very bad trip. Therefore, she recommended no one ever try LSD. "

I really hate when people are naive to the effects of psychedelic and consequently have a frightening and alienating experience then feel it is their duty to bad mouth and discourage people from using the drug in question. Just because they were mentally ill equiped for it dosen't mean everyone will be also.  

Really all I wanted to know was if there are people here who use drugs to potentiate or induce OBE's. I personally have only ever had 3 OBE's, one from when I had ingested a dissociating drug called Ketamine another one when I had a high fever, and also after inhaling laughing gas for several minutes.  I don't think that most psychedelic drugs would induce OBE's like LSD or Mushrooms, that is, unless you get very frightened and have a panic reaction which could easilly cause an OBE.  Some drugs though I feel can be used emphatically to induce or atleast potentiate an OBE, namely Ketamine and Nitrous Oxide. Terrence Mckenna also had some interesting research into alternate dimensions that could be entered through mushrooms, electron spin and temporal resonances, DMT, as described in True Hallucinations, The Archaic Revival, The Hidden Landscape.

[jilola]

Got me there SoulJah.  

Yes.
A nongenius man may take drugs and not become a genius. A genius on the other hand may take them and remain a genius. There's a splethora of variances between the two. JUst know where on that line you are is all I'm saying.

I know people who've tried the first, failed  and ended in ruin. Hence my wariness when it comes to introducing chemicals to one's system.


2cents & L&L
jouni

[Ben K]

6 pages have been written by those who are NOT drug user's...(stating mostly the drastic downfalls, the poisonous attributes, and oh-so-typically winding up on the point  of illegality. (we all know these things)(we all know so damn much about everything...don't we). And may it be understood that I have a problem...not with any individuals right to live in whatever mindset they choose, nor to contemplate the things or worlds outside...but to ignorantly (sorry there is no other word) draw boxes around other people, and force that their (conditioned) view point, supported by the majority of "decent/upstanding/functional/law-abiding" citizens it the ONLY CORRECT function....but on to the free-diving issue...

Exactly. I like to think of it caveman style. What negative things could happen if a person who was never involved in any kind of society whatsoever, spoke no language, etc., took the drug. The reason i do this is exactly what you said, to shed societys constant labeling and the taboo around it. I guess you could say i have started to try to "uncondition" myself. And not just on drugs, but everything from religion, to materialism. Let me tell ya, living in the suburbs SUCKS!

BenK what is your reason for drawing a line between poppy seeds and morning glory seeds? I'm not surprised you didn't like the DXM, when you think about the trip it took before it got to you...I can't see where it would be anywhere near pleasant.  There's a huge difference between smoking pot that's grown outside in the wonder of natural elements, and pot that's grown in a closet under artificial light with thrash music blaring 24-7. This knowledge is an important factor to anyone that's traveling the magic path of plants/chemicals.

DXM was indeed pleasent, i had a great time. And im sure im going to be doing it again. I just have to seriously evaluate what it did and how i can do it different next time. The one thing i didnt like is the memory-loss factor. I would sit in the dark with my friends for hours at a time, and it felt like it went by in a minute. On the flipside, we listened to "Cant Ya Hear Me Knockin" and it seemed to last an hour, which was great.

Anyway, It seems to me that opiates really just give you a body high for a couple hours, and there is really not "trip" per say. My main reason I like doing psyc. is that it opens up my "subconscious". Sitting around feeling like youre floating for an hour just doesnt sound fun.

If i am wrong however, please correct me  

[Babar]

"Anyway, It seems to me that opiates really just give you a body high for a couple hours, and there is really not "trip" per say. My main reason I like doing psyc. is that it opens up my "subconscious". Sitting around feeling like you're floating for an hour just doesn't sound fun"

Opiates are usually only addictive to people suffering from depression, in non-depressed people it usually doesn't have much "psychological" habituation occur.  It is more of an emotional drug which is stimulating to a persons Limbic system which in turn causes Euphoria and is generally a temporary cure for depression.

 As for it being psychedelic or mind expanding depends upon what your definition of those are.  It doesn't create much of a disturbance in your senses while your fully awake, though if you take an adequate dose it does cause you to become very drowsy and fall into a semi-conscious stupor that users call "going on the nod".  In this state one might be able to induce an OBE with greater ease, its an incredibly lucid and dreamy consciousness and for the most part the person is fully aware, Often while on the nod you feel very realistic sensations of flying and free falling. Since it causes elation and euphoria there is usually only positive feedback regarding nodding, even though it is quite surreal and fantastic.  To get to that level you'd usually have to take fair dose of a pretty strong opiate, like Heroin, oxycodone, or Morphine, that is unless you are overly sensitive in which case codeine may be sufficient.

[Frank]

NLC:

Yep, that's a typical example, unfortunately.

Someone suddenly finds themselves “out of body” and they totally freak. Now, this happens naturally during sleep, for example, where someone may become lucid in a dream, they freak and zap back to physical. Whereupon they sit up in bed, breath a sigh of relief thinking, phew, it was all “just a dream”.

The problem with the drug-fuelled experience is there is no stopping it! They end up immersed within Focus 2 of consciousness with all their thoughts (usually fearful) coming to life all around them… and there’s no zapping back to physical as an escape.

The core problem is they don’t realise where they are in consciousness. If they knew they were actually within their own mind then they would know how to control it… simply stop thinking! And it would all just dissipate.

But because people do not realise where in consciousness they are, the phenomenon of the “bad trip” has been brought into being. There is no such “thing” as a bad-trip, per se. You are just within Focus 2 of consciousness. So all your thoughts and feelings come to life all around you. If you are in a bad mood, then you are going to be immersed in the objective representations of that bad mood. Chances are that will make you feel worse, and so you are going to find yourself in worse circumstances. Which makes you feel worse, and so you are going to find yourself in progressively worsening circumstances. Hence the term “bad trip” was born. However, the whole experience is entirely generated by the individual, and all they need do to stop it is to simply stop thinking, or think of something happy, and so it will become.

I've never done any of these drugs, but some are quite powerful substances and I can understand why a government would make them illegal. But I simply cannot agree that that is the right course. I just want to make clear, here, that I am speaking purely as a member not as a moderator, as there may be possible legal technicalities else; and you can't be too careful these days, with the sheer hysteria that abounds from all the scaremongering in the mainstream media.

But making these substances illegal, simply prevents people from experimenting safely. There should be reliable, unbiased official information that educates people as to the effects of, for example LSD.

Otherwise, you engender the very situations that other people use to point the finger saying all these substances are dangerous. So by making them illegal and punishable by punitive prison terms, you prevent people from getting proper information, which causes all these horror stories to arise, and so they use the details of these horror stories to justify their continued illegality.

It's just a continuous, highly self-defeating vicious circle.

They should be decriminalised forthwith, and dispensed from licensed outlets in known concentrations just like alcohol. In my personal view, if people want to eat mushrooms, or smoke whacky baccy, or take LSD, or whatever, it’s their body and their business. I choose not to, but that’s my choice. People should not be forced to take for example, LSD any more than they should be forced not to.

Anything can be dangerous if it’s uncontrolled. You can’t just get in a car and drive it any old how. There are strict rules that must be observed. Cars have killed far more people than LSD ever will. But people still drive and cars are more popular than ever.

Drugs should not be just available willy nilly, but they should not be banned either. They should be able to be purchased through properly licensed outlets in strictly controlled concentrations. As I say, just like alcohol and like, for example, in Amsterdam where you have the coffee shops that sell a variety of different types of weed and what they call “space cakes” which I think are mushroom cakes.

Yours,
Frank

[patapouf]

I don't know if it is possible but I have heard that one of the consequences of LSD is that you may have one of those hallucinations after a long period of times! Even 2 years after you took some! Is it true? (I've never took that stuff so I'm not worrying too much).  

Drugs should not be just available willy nilly, but they should not be banned either. They should be able to be purchased through properly licensed outlets in strictly controlled concentrations.

In just a few countries we may see drugs (ex: heroin) not being sanctioned by the law (I think it's Holland). Instead of jailing the drug addicts, they try to help them and as surprising as it me be, the percentage of people taking drugs did not rise at all, it's even going down!

Take care,