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Author Topic: Gateway Wave1 pointers  (Read 83881 times)
Frank
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« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2002, 10:20:33 »



quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf:

Does this mean that in these situations I am lucky enough to become aware at monroe's focus 12 level or something?




The Astral screen effect comes about at Focus 21. When you step into it, this is the Phasing to Focus 22. As I said in an earlier post, Focus 22 is also known as the Lucid Dream state. But you are entering this state with full waking consciousness; as opposed to "waking up" within a Lucid Dream where you generally only have part conscious awareness, which makes a BIG difference.

If you Phase further and find yourself amongst all kinds of black and grey nasty stuff teaming with every manner of Human crud, then you are in Focus 23. And if you think Focus 23 is weird then Phase further and prepare to be weirded out to the n'th degree. Smiley

Yours,
Frank




 
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brianspuk
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« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2002, 11:34:59 »

Hi everyone

My experiences of Focus 10 and 12 are as follows.  Focus 10 fells as if I am in an enclosed room, and it is at this point that sensations such as various types of vibrations usually begin.  Focus 12 feels quite different from this; it feels more as if I am standing on the top of a large building from which a starry sky can be perceived above and the darkness in front of me takes on a much more energetic quality, as if there was a sort of electric plasma there.  Am I on the right track here?

I've currently reached the Freedom First Stage Separation exercise. This is the exercise where you try out various ways of getting out of the physical body like backing away and floating up like a cloud.  During this, I get a sort of dim perception of seeing my body from far away, though it's more of a perception than an actual out of body experience.  Still, I think success might be getting close.

Brian


 
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« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2002, 11:34:59 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Adrian
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« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2002, 12:43:32 »

Greetings Frank (if you have made it as far as page 6 of this topic http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> )

Regarding the Wave 1 CD - do you know what frequency it uses - I assume it is Theta waves?

Does the frequency increase or decrease during the process, or remain static?

And, what is the background - is it Monroe's guidance with a soundscape, and "pink" noise (a sort of hiss)?

Thanks again.

This is a most valuable thread!

With best regards,

Adrian.


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Frank
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« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2002, 16:13:16 »

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian:
Greetings Frank (if you have made it as far as page 6 of this topic http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> )

Regarding the Wave 1 CD - do you know what frequency it uses - I assume it is Theta waves?



I have to admit to having no idea. The Hemisync side of things I never really understood. There are some feint sounds on the CD that I assume are the Hemisync tones but they can hardly be heard.

quote:

Does the frequency increase or decrease during the process, or remain static?



As I say, these background sounds I don't have much of a fix on as they are way in the background.

quote:

And, what is the background - is it Monroe's guidance with a soundscape, and "pink" noise (a sort of hiss)?



Yes, there is a kind of feint hiss which I'm sure will just be white or pink noise.

Sorry I can't be of much help on this. Maybe on some of the other TMI CDs the Hemisync side of things features more prominently.

Yours,
Frank



 
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quebec
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« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2002, 11:59:56 »

Frank, could you comment on the "intent" aspect once at Focus 21.

Could you describe your approach once there at Focus 21, and how you utilise  intent.

My experience with Focus 21, if I practice in the evening, brings about a lot of sleepiness, and it's very hard not to fall asleep. It seems to be the border that has to be crossed while keeping your mind awareness from sleep.

 
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« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2002, 11:59:56 »



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« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2002, 19:54:17 »

quote:
Originally posted by Focus15:
Hello Quebec;
You may find this link interesting, they are offering "The Gateway Voyage", a 6 days course in the" Laurentide " on the 9th - 15 November, in case you would like to attend.

http://colba.net/~sylgor/index.html

This guy is very knowledgeble.

Blessing
Focus15


I know Mr Gorniak, he is the one I have bought the home Gateway serie, from wave 1 to 7. The Focus levels 3, 10, 12 and 21 are part of the program.

The fee for the 6 days course are around 1,500$. After doing the home serie mentionned, I'm not sure if it is worth all  the money. After that you can follow with the Lifeline and another serie that takes you to Focus 35, each at about the same cost. That's an impressive amount of money.

If your goal is OBE, not many have had the experience using the Hemi-Sync.  

There's the "Afterlife knowledge" site of Bruce Moen, who has studied at TMI, wrote four books and he gives workshops, that teaches doing the same thing without the use of the CD.

It seems to me as there's a missing link somewhere. The use of the CDs (hemi-sync approach) and the way that Frank uses them, to experience OBE.
Doing energy work or not, the relaxation etc...Some have success with these aspect, others don't use any of this stuff.  So where's the problem ?

The CDs seems to "take you" at the door, but it's once there that I think you succeed or not. Placing "intent", the vizualisation, loosing body consciousness etc...

Reading on this site all those as myself trying to OBE,  the difficulty lies in my opinion, in "crossing over".  Many get at the door, with the CDs or alone, but fail there.

I'm very grateful the someone like Frank and others share their experiences openly. And  all the exchanges on the Gateway serie on this site provides valuable datas that hopefully will give us clues on that "missink link"

My sincere thanks and appreciations to all of you OBErs, sharing with us.

Blessings,

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/index.html
 





 
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Frank
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« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2002, 09:49:48 »

quote:
Originally posted by quebec:
Frank, could you comment on the "intent" aspect once at Focus 21.

Could you describe your approach once there at Focus 21, and how you utilise intent.

My experience with Focus 21, if I practice in the evening, brings about a lot of sleepiness, and it's very hard not to fall asleep. It seems to be the border that has to be crossed while keeping your mind awareness from sleep.




I want to first answer your last point about sleep. People fall asleep from habit. As your physical body goes to sleep, it's like there is some signal that says, "Physical is going to sleep... now initiate Mind cut-off."

Somehow you have to break that habit. It isn't hard to do (unless you think of it that way) it's just a tricky mental balancing act you need to get into the habit of doing. Which can take time to get your head around. In other words, you need to go through a phase where you are working on swapping habits.

Someone like Mr Berry, for example, from what he says never seemed to get into the habit of initiating Mind cut-off to any great extent. As a result, he seems more in the habit of not switching off access to Mind as his physical body goes to sleep. Therefore, projection comes easy to him.

In a nutshell, all Astral projection involves is to simply let your mind remain awake and alert, while allowing your physical body to go to sleep. Because once your physical body nods off, that's it, you're free! Obviously, someone who has been in the habit of doing the opposite for 50 years of their life, say, chances are will find it a tricky habit to get out of. But it is by no means impossible.

People also get the misguided idea that they need some kind of empty-mind condition before they can phase-in to the Astral. This is not the case at all. I suspect a lot of failures come about from this misguided notion. The key is to concentrate on the task in hand, just like you would concentrate on any other task.

Another trap that befalls beginners is, they go about their normal day right up until the point where they lay in bed *then* they start to practise their techniques. Which I feel this is a big mistake. The time for practise is during the day: and it is from such practise that you develop the Intent.

First, you need to believe that what you are attempting to achieve (Astral projection) is possible. Next you develop a firm intention to achieve that goal. Having the Intent leads you to practice the necessary mental techniques; which takes concentration. Concentrating without having a firm belief, for example, won't bring results. Neither will having a firm believe but allowing your mind wander all over the place through lack of Intent.

As I say, the time for practice is during the day. With myself, in my mind, I *constantly* hold an image at a place in my head where the Astral TV screen effect comes about at Focus 21. During waking hours I cannot see the image as clear as day, like I can normally, because I am out of phase with it during Physical waking hours. But I still hold the impression of it CONSTANTLY in mind.

As such, when I come to project, I do so with the specific intention of phasing to the screen. This is my first step. Then, as the screen comes fully into view, I take the next step which is normally to travel to my regular guide, Harath. Unless I'm going through a "not talking to him" phase in which case I might take an Astral stroll, have a chat with a few locals, and so on.

I've said in previous posts that the Astral is very much closer to us that I suspect most people think. Which is why Imagination is a very powerful tool. I also suspect that a lot of people don't realise that their higher imagination-release-memory functions are not contained within the physical body at all.

So I would say to people first starting out down the Astral-phasing road, is to imagine doing it at every opportunity you can during the day to the point where a permanent connection is made. Or at least the feeling of a connection is there, all the time, during waking hours,

Yours,
Frank


 





 





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Adrian
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« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2002, 11:11:30 »

Greetings Frank!

Thanks once again for your time in conveying such excellent information!

One point you make I believe is particularly relevant - "making the connection". I think that is extremely important for progressing to the Astral, and once that connection is made, it should be fairly easy to maintain it in future.

The problem is, from the day we are born, we are surrounded by "maya illusion". Our parents shake rattles at us, and hang mobiles over our heads, teach us about colours, textures, sounds and so on, in preparing us for "life" in the physical world. That is all well and good, and their intentions are completely honourable, but while focussing on the physical world, you are de-focussing the Astral world, and the Spirit worlds from whence you came.

Astral work therefore, aside from all of the disciplines Frank has discussed here, is all about peeling away the physical world illusion that has built up, almost like layers over the years, like a shutter at the window, and establishing that contact again with the Astral.  Frank's suggestion of maintaining that connection therefore is, as always, an excellent one.

The other major factor is deep physical relaxation - the body asleep condition. Without that, Astral most Astral work of this kind is extremely difficult.

Thanks again Frank!

With best regards,

Adrian.


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« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2002, 13:30:14 »

quote:
As your physical body goes to sleep, it's like there is some signal that says, "Physical is going to sleep... now initiate Mind cut-off."

I don't know if I'm normal in this respect, but I think my mind goes to dreamland well before my body falls asleep.  That's why I get what I call "napjerks", when in my dream I'm falling or waving or something, and in my physical arm flails about in bed (sometimes waking me up, or sometimes waking up the person I've just unwittingly smacked in the head). http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_blush.gif" border=0>
quote:
Then, as the screen comes fully into view, I take the next step which is normally to travel to my regular guide, Harath. Unless I'm going through a "not talking to him" phase in which case I might take an Astral stroll, have a chat with a few locals, and so on.

LOL, what's that all about?  Do you get a little peeved with him for some reason?  I had to laugh there, sorry if It offended you.  I just think of some bearded guru saying "Well yes, I have a spirit guide, but he and I aren't speaking to each other right now."http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_shy.gif" border=0>
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Frank
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« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2002, 15:51:55 »



Jacara: guides can be a right PITA because they never give you a straight answer. My regular guide speaks almost entirely in riddles which, I suppose, is designed to stimulate curiosity. But often all I simply want is a straight answer to a straight question and, for whatever reason, he always seems to take this as some cue to go off on a tangent. And there's only so much I can take before telling him to get lost. Smiley

Yours,
Frank

 





 
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« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2002, 17:08:15 »

Hi everyone,
This is very interesting. I have several of the Hemi-Sync CDs and Holo-Sync also. I have used them to to initiate meditation and obe many times. I purposely did not choose the ones that have guided imagery on them, only the musical tones which alter brain waves. Yet there is one thing I see the guided imagery on these tapes seem to stress is "Levels", that is, they provide you with an intent, an absolute destination to focus on. I guess that my point in this observation is that to "arrive" you should have a definate "place" to go. Am I misunderstanding the direction of these guided tapes? If this is a correct assumption, then choosing a destination, without a guided meditation, would work just as well. The common denominator being "Intent" and "Preconceived Destination".
Donna

 
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Tracy
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« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2002, 17:24:22 »

Ok, I'm realizing more and more how complex the mind is in terms of projection variety and there subtle differences.  I was getting confused of whether I am going into Focus 21 or having a remote eye experience because I have been seeing full view close up scenes such as my front door.  This is similar during a remote eye situation and the consciousness slams back into the body C1.  But reading earlier post says that the door could be symbolic.

**Strange part**  For 2 hours this morning I have been trying to find out more about this on this thread but the computer kept crashing and I would feel very tired.  I also had this feeling like I'm to go upstairs and meditate to be shown the next piece of the puzzle.  So I said "what the heck is going on,   this darn computer...." and went upstairs to meditate.  After reaching F 12, I find myself in the same situation of full-blown view.  And this time I was able to stay out longer and not slam back to C1 but just have a subtle shift back to the body.  I was not expectiong the really passive feeling like  "ok, I'm here and happy where ever I am.

 Can a person project directly to the astral, bypass the little cinema screen and just be there?

 Also, have you been shown books, text on paper that are  placed in front of you too read.  You were able to read the text but being so passive in the minds eye that you can't really remember much of what you read?

Is this normal?

Very appriciatively,

Tracy





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« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2002, 17:49:13 »

Greetings Donna!

quote:
Originally posted by Donna:
Hi everyone,
This is very interesting. I have several of the Hemi-Sync CDs and Holo-Sync also. I have used them to to initiate meditation and obe many times. I purposely did not choose the ones that have guided imagery on them, only the musical tones which alter brain waves. Yet there is one thing I see the guided imagery on these tapes seem to stress is "Levels", that is, they provide you with an intent, an absolute destination to focus on. I guess that my point in this observation is that to "arrive" you should have a definate "place" to go. Am I misunderstanding the direction of these guided tapes? If this is a correct assumption, then choosing a destination, without a guided meditation, would work just as well. The common denominator being "Intent" and "Preconceived Destination".
Donna
 



I think that is right. If you have a destination that you can imagine, then you can be there. That is the way Astral portals work in general. The destination could be direct to a locale, or through a symbol such as a rune, or a symbol of the elements or other known symbolic gateway to an Astral realm.

Clearly the mind awake/body asleep state is a pre-requisite, and to attain the hypnagogic imagery stage - but before starting, it is in my view as well to hold your "intent" in your mind, and imagine/focus on it at this stage.

With best regards,

Adrian.




 
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Frank
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« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2002, 08:42:57 »

quote:
Originally posted by Tracy:
Can a person project directly to the astral, bypass the little cinema screen and just be there?




Yes, absolutely, this is the whole point of the training in going through the various stages, etc. What I found is, you have to learn to project slowly before you can project quick. Well, that's how it is with me and I strongly suspect that's how it is with most ordinary people; not having been born with any kind of "gift" for projection.

I think of it like if a person was learning to play an instrument. At first you play the various notes at a pace so slow it seems like torture. But with persistance and determination, slowly but surely, things start coming together; to the point where, after a number of years of practice, you could just sit at any old piano and play it, for example.

Astral projection rests on the same principles.

First you slowly go through the various stages of mental focus in order to be able to recognise them and feel comfortable in the various states. In the process, people will many times get zapped back to C1 as the body adjusts to the new-found environment. But with persistance and determination, eventually you will reach the stage where you just lie back, relax, and simply go directly to the mental Focus state of your choosing.

Myself, I'm not quite there yet. But all it takes is more practice, practice & yet more practice.

Yours,
Frank




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« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2002, 18:26:00 »



Focus 15,

Ok, now I feel better that all these strange experiences are in the ranges of normal
I would love to share experiences  concerning the books and papers.

 Mostly they appear like you had said kind of floating in front of me close but not to close to my face.  I gaze upon the text and it seems  sort of fuzzy like I should  squint to obtain a better focus.  After I start to try this,  a feeling (or maybe being told this very quietly) that I am not to really concentrate on the letters but relax.  So I do and the words start flowing in my consciousness as if I'm reading it and in my voice.  My attention is focused, very relaxed, on the page of text.  Even though the words are fuzzy, I am not feeling very taxed at all about  reading it .  Just like you, sometimes  I  remember paragraphs of words and other times not much sticks in my mind.

 The text being read is (at this point) boring and very routine stuff for some reason.   Things that are considered review.  I haven't written any of the text in my journal yet because the stuff is  "routine". You would think that if you are given something to read in the astral , it should be meaningful or symbolic.

Oh well.

 

Frank,

   As always, thank you so much for all your help and clarity!

 I was wondering if anyone might know, could a person using these focuses see things that aren't astral in origin?  This morning after waking out of sleep I saw the Earth from a point in space.  The Earth and all her glory was sitting right in front of me with tiny clouds following the jet streams.  It looked so real.  

Very appriciatively,

Tracy

   



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« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2002, 08:52:29 »

I'd like to thank Frank for explaining the INTENT. I haven't practiced remote viewing yet, but I have stated my intent in a dream. I think dreams can be very powerful. With my last dream, I became lucid, but I thought I was out of body. I went flying around over a lake and through trees. As an experienced lucid dreamer, this was somewhat boring (but beautiful).  Then I remembered to use my intent. At that time I was standing in a European city with a lot of people walking around. As soon as I spoke my words out loud in a strong voice, everyone looked at me in shock. I caught everyone's attention as if I shattered glass in a library! The dream scene changed....and went on from there.      I've been meaning to use Frank's technique for projecting from a LD. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 
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« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2002, 12:48:36 »

Frank I wondered if you could expand on your breathing technique for us you mentioned it in another post and called it (habitual) I asked in another thread but I am thinking that maybe you havn't gone back there since its moved down past the first page.
Thanks


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« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2002, 22:40:17 »


Tracy wrote:

"Ok, I'm realizing more and more how complex the mind is in terms of projection variety and there subtle differences. I was getting confused of whether I am going into Focus 21 or having a remote eye experience because I have been seeing full view close up scenes such as my front door. This is similar during a remote eye situation and the consciousness slams back into the body C1. But reading earlier post says that the door could be symbolic."

Hi Tracy, because there are many who differentiate between "Remote Viewing", "OBE, and "Lucid Dreams", they all have a simple common basis, that is: "The conciousness is outside the body". I have, and do experience all three types of conditions, the easiest to attain for me is Remote Viewing.

Tracy asked:
"Can a person project directly to the astral, bypass the little cinema screen and just be there?"

Yes indeed, I have experienced a shift (a very fast shift), in conciousness during light meditation and found myself in an often visited alternate realm. There I have been a "landlady" for many years to a tenement building. Also in remote viewing, being fully awake and lucid, only sending a body double, or just my conciousness to a desintination, there is only a slight delay between intent and arrival. I am wholely aware of there, and here at the same time. I can describe it aloud or write the experience as I there am physically experiencing it.

Tracy asked:
"Also, have you been shown books, text on paper that are placed in front of you too read. You were able to read the text but being so passive in the minds eye that you can't really remember much of what you read?"


Having attended a school in the higher realms for about eight months, I am happy to report that our teacher did not require us to read anything more than recognize a circle representing our consciouness that she/he drew on the blackboard. However we were taken to the library on this campus and told that we could  use it at any time. (I and one other were obe in this school, the other student was newly dead.) The problem I had with the computer screen was that , "I couldn't read a thing!". This was upsetting to me, because there is so much I would have liked to have looked up. But all I could make out was an idea that it was a "search" type database. The words keep blurring and running together, I just gave up in disgust!

Oh well,
Donna

 
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« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2002, 15:10:53 »

Hi Focus15,
This school is set in the eithers on the higher realms. It was explained to me that it would be almost impossible for anyone to find by themselves, and that is why a guide "kidnapped" (ha ha) me on the way to a regular group obe meeting. The teacher said that they had "chosen"  us and that the prerequisite to attending was to share what we learned there with others.
There were many others there on the campus, and many classrooms, also all of the arts, diet, and prophecy, attaining states of conciousness and much more deeply spiritual knowledge was taught.
I was a wonderful eight months, I quit to pursue opening a business, a year and a half ago. This is the first contact with an e-group since that time.
Donna


 
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« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2002, 18:59:35 »

Donna and Focus 15,

 
quote:
Yes, I have also experienced those very fast shift in conciousness, when doing light meditation or just relaxing while listening to radio or television. Experiencing being there and here at the same time(i'm sure you understand what I mean..Smiley, it normally last a few sec/minute and then the "Jolt" back to my body. I was never really into RV, but it seem to happen once in a while, with complete picture/sense of what is happening. Maybe I should give it a go and let it happened naturally.Will give it a good try one day.

 

Oh my gosh,  I  had this same experience through most of my life, even before I  knew anything about energy.   I would be watching tv or listening to someone talk, zone out and have a split consciousness where I am in two places at once.  My physical body is grounded in the physical and another part of me was hovering outside of the body looking down at my physical.

When I tried to explain my experience to others, they would look at me and say  "Sure Tracy, it's your imagination working overtime."   Is this something of what you described?  Not knowing anything about oobes or phasing, I never tried to explore or go anywhere, and I have never found myself in the astral until now.

Thank you for sharing your experiences!

Tracy

For everyone wondering:

 The quote box is the button with the piece of paper and red arrow on it.  You can put the quote material in between the
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« Reply #95 on: October 12, 2002, 21:53:04 »

Greetings Tracy!

quote:
Originally posted by Tracy:
Oh my gosh,  I  had this same experience through most of my life, even before I  knew anything about energy.   I would be watching tv or listening to someone talk, zone out and have a split consciousness where I am in two places at once.  My physical body is grounded in the physical and another part of me was hovering outside of the body looking down at my physical.





Yes, this is what Robert describes as the "mindsplit effect". It appears to be common with conventional OBE's, as in those cases you are "projecting" an etheric double. If your original mind has Astral sight or you are clairvoyant, you  and your etheric double an then see each other concurrently, and according to Rober it can get most confusing!

In your case it seems that you had a spontaneous OBE. There have been cases of motor cycle riders having spontaneous OBE's at hight speed, and were hovering several feet above the bike! That must be disconcerting http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Bi-location is similar. You can send your double to anywhere you want while your original is fully consciousness.

That is also why memory is such a big problem with OBE - the copy, upon its return, has to "download" its copy of its experiences to the original, and mostly it doesn't.

That is one reason we are focussing on Astral consciousness phasing in this forum - it avoids these problems and results in a more memorable, beneficial experience.

With best regards,

Adrian.


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Tracy
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« Reply #96 on: October 13, 2002, 02:31:00 »

Adrian,

  Wow, I have no idea after all these months of learning, why I never associated these experiences as OBE related.  I just never thought that OBEs could happen just like that.  Since it seems like OBEs have a mass amount of energy involved, that spontaneous OBEs would be  near to impossible.  I remember reading about them in AD but I thought this could only happen to individual who retain high energy levels naturally.

All this time of hiding this unnamed experience that no one believed I had, and here I am finally learning about my spiritual self and poof ......it  really has a meaning.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Thank you so much!

Tracy

"Man shall never reach his full capacity while chained to the earth.  We
> must take wing and conquer the heavens."--
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Frank
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« Reply #97 on: October 13, 2002, 09:27:02 »


quote:
Originally posted by Windameir:
Frank I wondered if you could expand on your breathing technique for us you mentioned it in another post and called it (habitual) I asked in another thread but I am thinking that maybe you havn't gone back there since its moved down past the first page.
Thanks
Happy Travels
Windameir




Basically, there is a good way and a not-so-good way to breathe. Quickly take a deep breath in. If your chest immediately begins to rise, you habitually breathe the not-so-good way. If your stomach moves out first, as your diaphragm moves downwards, that is how it should be. (The chest should only rise at the very last stage of a deep breath.)

What I was working on, at the time of my original post, was imagining energy flowing from my head, down my spine with each intake of breath (as diaphragm moves downwards). Then, as the diaphragm reaches its bottom limit, you can find a kind of curling sensation coupled with a tingling feeling in the solar plexus area (rather like if you go over a hump-back bridge at speed). If you keep doing this it activates the various Chakras.

It was at a time when I got curious about the various sensations you get when bodily Chakras are activated. I found the Heart one is the best. Real whacky sensations.Smiley  Though I found the the novelty does wear off after a bit.

Yours,
Frank





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Gandalf
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« Reply #98 on: October 13, 2002, 11:54:04 »

Concerning conventional obe or the 'etheric double' as some occultist call it.
RB (and others) explains the mind split scenario etc by suggesting  that your original conciousness stays in your body while a double is generated, goes out scouts around, comes back and downloads the info, so it all seems seemless with out any breaks.

I think this is true more or less but I feel that a remote video camera or ROV is a better analogy to use as it feels to me that the experience is more of a 'live feed' than RB suggests (because of the lack of conciousness breaks - I never have a problem with remembering, I'm lucky I guess).

I prefer to think of the double as a generated energy vehicle like those ROVs that they send down to ship wreks ete as I feel that there is a 'live feed' from the double back to you, so you see,hear feel etc what the double does, it is your eyes and ears. RB however thinks that the sensation that it is all in real time is an illusion.

I think that the downloading part is still important afterwards though because even although there is a 'live feed' between the two bodies at the time the downloading is like saving it to the hard drive so it  is permanatly remembered.

To sum up, basically, I agree with what RB says about conventional obe but I think that there is a definate live feed between the two bodies whether RB doesnt suggests this but rather that the memories are downloaded at the end of the experience only.

What do others think?

Regards,
Douglas



 
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Adrian
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« Reply #99 on: October 13, 2002, 13:02:53 »

Greetings!

A few comments.

Yes, Gandalf, I think their is a live feed between the physical mind/body and the etheric double as well, and they can communicate with each other causing the mindsplit effect.

Tracy: I am not at all convinced that energy has anything to do with OBE, and certainly not Astral portal work.  The fundamental base state is mind awake/body asleep, and it is quite easy to see how a motorcyclist on a lonely country road can get into this state and have a spontaneous OBE.  I can see energy raising as being or relevance to the etheric OBE - the real time zone - but not Astral travel.   To me, this OBE, etheric double situation is something to be avoided for Astral work. The "holy grail" of Astral projection accoring t most OBE experts is the ability to project at will, and to remember the experience. I do not think conventional OBE offers that, except with years of practice, but I do believe that Astral "phasing" portal work does offer this. It would also seem likely that the pure Astral phasing can provide a higher quality, more stable experience.

As for Chakras - we are advised to focus on the upper triangle of Chakras, but in particular the heart Chakra. If you develop the heart Chakra, the other upper Chakra will benefit and develop. The heart Chakra is the key - it is no coincidence that the most powerful force in the Universe, in all Spheres is love!

With best regards,

Adrian.


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