How can I leave FoC 2?

[upstream]

Keep in mind also, that in dreams anything can appear. So watch out of your expectations otherwise Frank would manifest out from F4 in the suite of the pope and roll away those slates for you.

[Kazbadan]

How can you leave fuc 2 (f*** too)? Its easy, finish the "job" then go away. If you dont want to foc, just say that to your partner....

Thats a silly question for a forum about AP

[Tombo]

I made some more attempts to reach FoC 3, all of them failed  

What usually happens is the following:

I'm at FoC 2 and decide to try to reach Fz, then usually the thought pops up, that I might just end up in F1. I try to stay calm and start to defocuse the dreamscape. the slats usually appear without much problem. I then zoom into the blackness and the dreamscape just falls away.

Now the trouble start: I usually find myself in a blackness (Fz?) but after a very short periode of time ( about 1 sec.) I start to feel my body lying in bed. this inevitably takes my focus back to F1 and the experience ends
No chance I can fly around in Fz and explore the darkness, the feel of my  physical body just pos up by itself.  I tried to not focus on the physical, but I fail every time. What am I doing wrong?
Or maybe it would be better to try to zoom directly to F3 instead of Fz when leaving F2? Just defocus the dreamscape and focus on reaching F3? would that be the way to go?

Tom

[Frank]

Tom:

I think you are not actually doing anything wrong. I think all you need is more practice. It sounds to me like there is some protective aspect of your awareness that is getting a little fearful or maybe you are getting too excited. I’m assuming that when you ended up back at the physical there was no problem like you needed to use the bathroom or you were too hot or something. Or there was not some kind of unusual sound or whatever that had disturbed you. Because the physical can often bring you back, so to speak, for all manner of niggling little reasons. It’s just something you have to accept.

But in your case, as you do not mention anything specific regarding the physical, then I think a part of you is perhaps getting a little fearful or excited. Unfortunately, any kind of fear or excitement can put a spoke in the works. Maybe instead of zooming into the blackness take a little walk, or let the blackness come to you. In other words, slow down a little. You can attempt a direct transition and bypass Fz entirely. But that is possibly trickier than what you are attempting now. I say possibly because you can never always tell in any individual case. But the transition F2>Fz>F3 is normally the easiest route even though it would appear a slightly more roundabout way of doing it.

You can always try bypassing F2 altogether and making an F1>F3 transition, but that’s typically even trickier still. Please realise in all this that people will have their individual stumbling blocks that may take a while for them to overcome. Some people may have difficulties in other areas that you may find straight forward and vice versa.

Yours,
Frank

[Tombo]

Thanks Frank

No there was no physical sensation that pulled me back. I was assuming that I probably just need more practice to get "used" to the transition, Fear/exitement may very well play a roll. It is just reassuring to hear that one is basically on the right track and not doing some fundamental thing wrong.

It is just a bit annoying when I terminate the experience myself, by accident so to speak. practice, practice I guess......

[Tombo]

Hello again.

I made two successfully attempts to enter the void. This time I was able to stay a bit longer there 10-20 sec. What puzzles me is the fact that I seem not to be able to create anything there. You guys said it is like raw matter where anything that one imagines comes into reality. Haven't experienced that yet. Wasn't able to create any door or so to enter F3, so I started to wonder if I am really in the correct Blackness (Fz)?! What makes me even more doubtful is the following I read somewhere else.

Jeff answers.......
.........you have two black voids..
The big black void or deep sleep has one unique thing instead of the small void witch is a in between layer between waking and dreaming..and that is that when you want to wake up you always go up to less deep sleep layers and go through dream stage again although that can be seconds only..while in the small void if you go upwards in consciousness you wake up right away and never see any dream because for that you would first have to into a deeper sleep stage again.
Also in the small void you can see visuals hypnogogics also in the deep sleep black void that aint so because your visual cortex is of line.
But probably while obeing one time or another you have been in both.

Hmmmmmmmm I'm a little unsure how to proceed now, which one is the correct blackness?..... Please help  i wanna reach F3 so badly........

[upstream]

What for? Everyone want to phase in to F3 because RTZ is boring. Although what most people call here RTZ OBE is usually a plain lucid dream, RTZ OBEs could be indeed boring. But the fact is, without the ability to project into the RTZ you can't reach explore other realities.

Maybe you can have lucid dreams about it, and you can switch your focus into the regio where dead people lives, F3 yes or whatever - still boring after a while. Anyway, what is boredom? It's a state of mind. Curse of the social welfare, luxury of the week minded. I bet explorers are never bored.

The possibility for having some genuine exploration simply lies in our ability to project into the RTZ, to get in tune with those structures through the Earth is connected to the rest of the Universe - not in your ability of  being good psychiatrist of dead but bored people.

Anyway, you need the small blackness for F1 to F2 transition. It's phasing. You doesn't really change your arousal rather you just switch your focus. On the other hand the F2 to F3 transition requires your brain to slip into delta sleep, where the great blackness comes forth.

This is what you did recently, I've read your post at ld4all. You have moved directly from level four to level zero by doing your disconnection trick. You have been fired out "through the top of your head," so to speak, through your crown chakra, and found yourself in the great darkness, Fz

The Fz corresponds with a highly unpacked configuration of the energy body. The "energy body" I'm talking about realizes itself directly from the physical vacuum and use it for moving like a wrinkle does on a table-cover. It represent only a segment on the consciousness continuum and seems to be highly independent from the body and its bioplasm appendage.

When you dreamt about the Fz your energy body had a size commensurable with the Earth's circumference. All portal structures of the Earth system were within yourself. Your energy body remained somewhat spatially incoherent, hence your inability to perceive F3 in human terms. You just had to change your focus by placing your intent and zoom away.

I already described my trick in this thread how to keep coherence while you attain the F2 to F3 transition. The trick is to keep the pictures of real objects only as you gradually immobilize your physical eyes and exit REM sleep.

If Frank's slat method works for everyone it rather has the dynamic the disconnection trick you did by sleeping within a dream without using the twin position. Alternatively, you may try to establish a close-to-RTZ perception (see my RTZ guide) then you could zoom away from the RTZ.

This is not equivalent with phasing into F3 though. It's also about travelling in space as we know it.

[Tombo]

Thank you very much for your reply upstream! Very interesting!

I bet explorers are never bored.

It doesn't matter to me what others are. I'm curious. I heard about F3, now I wanna go and explore that. you may be right I mostly have LD although I do have RTZ OBE from  time to time. flying around, walking around the bedroom, watching reality fluctuations, moving tru walls.......It is just not what I'm looking for. If I'm missing the point and you can show me a way to make this OBE's more exploratory, I'm happy!

This is what you did recently, I've read your post at ld4all. You have moved directly from level four to level zero by doing your disconnection trick. You have been fired out "through the top of your head," so to speak, through your crown chakra, and found yourself in the great darkness, Fz

What do you mean by level four, level zero. I do not understand. Could you please explain a bit more about it. How can I trigger this again, I still do not really understand how I triggered it?! Last time I tried nothing special happened, I just ended up in the Blackness

When you dreamt about the Fz your energy body had a size commensurable with the Earth's circumference. All portal structures of the Earth system were within yourself. Your energy body remained somewhat spatially incoherent, hence your inability to perceive F3 in human terms. You just had to change your focus by placing your intent and zoom away.

What kind of intent? to see F3? How can I zoom away from a Blackness?

If Frank's slat method works for everyone it rather has the dynamic the disconnection trick you did by sleeping within a dream without using the twin position.

Can you tell memore about the twin position and what it exactly it is and how it works? I would like to understand that better.

I already described my trick in this thread how to keep coherence while you attain the F2 to F3 transition. The trick is to keep the pictures of real objects only as you gradually immobilize your physical eyes and exit REM sleep.

Do you mean the following?

I focus on distant buildings and objects long enough in order to make hallucinations melting. I keep the sightings of every stable elements that attract my attention and disregard those that change or become transparent.

I'll give it a try. I know i ask a lot of questions, hope you find time to answer

BTW what is your name at LD4all?

[upstream]

Of course, Tombo, I was not talking about you in particular. I've just mentioned a trend I'm not an exception of. Having a "real" RTZ OBE is not easy for me.

By "real" RTZ OBE I mean a state when I have no body at all. I just slide in the air as a pinpoint or blob, mostly along surfaces and electrical wires. It's a mix of sliding and jumping actually. Sometimes I am able to see the insides and outsides of objects at the same time, quite weird but seems natural in that state, or have an all encompassing panoramic view.

I don't consider other experiences RTZ OBE. In my view there are lucid dreams. Not "just" lucid dreams, however, because more similar the "hallucinated" environment of a LD to an actual physical place, the more condensated the "energy body" (sensory energy field that realizes itself directly from the physical vacuum) at that place.

In a typical fake OBE, the energy body is an amorf cloud, so to speak, with many seeds and spours that interprenetates all the physical places that the vision of that given dream encompasses. However, if you manage to dream about only one place and with high accuracy, the energy body become very dense and starts to perceive (interact with) physical objects. It fluctuates though, and when temporairly collapses, reality wavers.

RTZ OBEs are such as they are. However, if you want to explore in the style of the son of a space ship and an interdimensional jellyfish you have to first develop your RTZ attention.

A close to RTZ attention is optimal to have the energy body configuration that enable you to isolate the electromagnetic structures through the Earth is connected to the rest of the Universe.

You may begin with the object inspecting method I described in this tread. It's a simplified version of the outdoor exercises of my fluctucondensation practices.

However,  you'd better to begin with the indoor exercises I wrote about in my RTZ guide. For this, you need to get back in the dream version of the room where you sleep, or a place you know very well. You have to memorize it. You can induce an OBE-like dream too by falling in the twin position and separate in your bedroom. Then you do the indoor exercises.

The indoor exercises are enough for having a close to RTZ attention since the outdoor exercises mainly consists directed series of zooms to further condensate the energy body in the RTZ. It's quite unnecessary to describe them since after you have done the indoor parts you will know what to do.

After you lost your legs settle down on a tall building and command yourself out loud that you want to see those portal structures. They will appear on the horizon as strange buildings or symbols or whatever that suits for you.

You may find yourself looking upon a surreal landscape, or  immersed with in an abstract space filled with space ship like things. Whatever will be the case, you could zoom now. Focus on an object for more than a couple of seconds and let the force accelerate you. The main thing is that you shouldn't try to fly on your own otherwise you'll be disappointed, finding yourself hovering near a miniature city or something you can't enter. Alternatively, you may fly upwards until reality changes. Who knows where you will end up?

P.S. Twin position and arousal levels are defined at ld4all.com. I'm popov there.

[DustinEwan]

I was just wondering if anyone had made the connection of Frank's Focuses to that of Plato's Forms.

Plato believed that Ultimate Reality was everything that existed in the universe in its most perfect Form and that Physical Reality is simply a physical application of the Form and that physical objects are thrice removed from Ultimate Reality.

For example, according to Plato, there are chairs in the physical realm, none of these chairs are perfect in the physical realm and are all completely unique.  Although, in some transcendent realm, there is a Chair (single Chair, the Form of the Chair) that is what every single chair in the universe is copied from.

Keeping this in mind:  From what I have read in Frank's posts, Focus 4 allows you to experience/become/perceive everything in the universe in its most perfect "concept" (Form).  In Focus 3, you would "see" everything in the universe in the ways that everybody in the universe "sees" them as being "real" thus making Focus 3 once removed from reality.  Now, between Focus 2 and Focus 1 it's kind of hard to explain, but bear with me please.  Focus 2 is how you, WITH YOUR MIND, perceive everything to be true, thus making it twice removed from reality, but Focus 1, on the other hand, uses your senses to perceive something as true, thus making it thrice removed from reality.

Maybe somebody could clean up the correlation a bit, but upon reading this thread, I was instantly teleported back to my philosophy class.  If anyone else has made this connection between the two, or would provide some more thought to it, that would be awesome.

Until then, I'll be reading theories of both Frank and Plato.


Also:  Something that is kinda funny.  Plato did not enjoy paintings or sculptures because they are a copy of the physical object, thus being four times removed from reality.


Edit: Spelling

[wizzle3]

hey frank, where is your "phasing model?"

i want to use your technniques

[DustinEwan]

Actually, off topic, I learned more about Aristotle than I did Plato.

Just so happens, though, that I agreed more with Plato's way of thinking on Ultimate Reality than I did with Aristotle  

[Xanth]

I believe there is information here of great value.
A continuation of discussion would be great. 

This thread holds Frank's Venetian Blind metaphor for switching between realities.

[light487]

When I first RE-started my AP journey last month, I was very interested in F3.. aren't we all? And i've wavered between F2 and Fz myself a lot over the last month. It does seem to be a point of no return, the edge of the abyss.. or whatever you want to call it. However, over the last week or so, I've come to realise that I actually need to explore F2 a little first. I need to get to know myself in greater depth. I need to identify not just my fears but also my desires and dreams, fantasies and beliefs; then take those and "deal" with them in whatever way is most beneficial to my ongoing evolution. Once all of this is "in check", then I will allow myself to proceed further into a wider awareness.

I think that many people want to skip this step and go straight to F3 but I think that F2 is perhaps the most important part of the whole process.. at least that's what I think at this stage of my evolution. F2 is where you get to know yourself. F3 is where you get to know the wider reality in relation to yourself, how you are connected within it and so on. However, if you don't know yourself.. how can you really understand all of that and know the greater/wider truth of it.

[daytona955]

I've only just started out in all this really. I've had a few not very lucid OBE's, until Sunday morning that is when I was very lucid in the RTZ, and then I had another projection and used a mirror to phase into F2. All very exciting stuff, but the holy grail for me is reaching F3 and seeing for myself if I can gain some sort of an affirmation of life after death. If I manage an F2 projection soon I will definitely try the blind approach and report back on my experience.