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Author Topic: Lost To The Ages - Monroe-Muldoon-Castanada-Leadbeater  (Read 23247 times)
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« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2005, 10:53:54 »

Quote from: the voice of silence
The night before I tried setting my alarm to go off every 1/2hr and it didn't seem to work as effective like before. Maybe, I should try every 20mins to see if there's a better chance.  


The other night I moved my alarm hand to 4am, was just about to set it, and chickened out!  I don't want to be rudely awoken at 4am  wink

I'm happy for it to happen when it happens to me.  Trying to force it just gets frustrating.

Anyway, back to the original topic...

Sarah
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« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2005, 00:38:31 »

sometimes forcing it can burn one out. the other night I was tinkering with the alarm clock and see if it would help. i was able to produce a obe but the length was short and not fruitful. during the whole morning i was in the repetitive cycle of awake/sleep and messed up the whole day.

tvos
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« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2005, 00:38:31 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2005, 23:38:44 »

what happened to this becoming a sticky?

tvos
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« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2005, 20:07:12 »

With regards to keeping 'in touch' with Robert Monroe,
-actually yes, the TMI gang and junkies do have rendezvous with him during the advanced courses.
Pretty intense and fulfilling!

BTW,
HI ALL! Frank and Major Tom!
I am Back...had to furlough when worked off a ship for a while....
Then I just returned from Stephen LaBerge's 10 day Lucid Dream Camp in Hawaii!

WOW! talk about cool...LaBerge Walks his talk!  smiley

I've spread this forum over into the Lucid forums and groups too!
AstralPulse is second to NONE! Cheesy

glad to be back,

-ofp
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« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2005, 23:26:43 »

Thanks MajTom! Cheesy

Yes, LaBerge does have his 'theories' regarding LD and OOB. But at least he took a real risky career step back in early 80's and brought "this" into the Both the Academia and Science community!
And being at Stanford holds a lot water too.

His work in the labs have been fantastic...his lab rats have been able to signal with their eyes once they are lucid; then, accomplish several tasks to link reality with dreamland, etc.
They have done experiments to show how TIME exists in the LD world....essentially it is the Same as in waking reality. Subjects would eye signal for what they estimated was 10 seconds, one minute, etc. and they were dead on or damn close to a waking person's estimations.

His sex LD lab rat studies too were very interesting as well as Hilarious!  Subjects had to go "find someone in their LD to get laid..."In the interest of Science" !

Yes, the camp was well worth it. It is great to see how far people are bringing modern science into this 'wider reality'. But too, when confront the medical establishment....uh well....it's still just....unexplained!

Yeah, riiiight!

Glad to be back cheesy
ofp
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« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2005, 23:26:43 »



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« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2005, 00:29:37 »

Oilfieldpilot,

I read Stephen's book "Lucid Dreaming" back in the day. How does Stephen compare lucid dreams to OOBE's.  Its been awhile and I know he's done some incredible studies and explorations with this.

My biggest question is: How can a projector or NDE person (near death experience) verify targets and experiments when Stephen dismiss this as a lucid dream?

Tvos
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« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2005, 14:13:08 »

Thanks MajTom for the reference!

We tried to hit this point at the camp. Unfortunately time ran out as this was one of those extraordinary topics.
This camp also was shared by a Buddist Guru who took center stage for half+ of the program. Those who are into that kinda thing really benefited.
But while I learned a lot....I also learned that buddism is JUST ANOTHER RELIGION AND BELIEF...actually....a BUNCH of conflicting beliefs...depending on what Type of buddism one believes in. In this case...the speaker followed Tibetan tradition. I cornered him and questioned his belief about "Time". I told him to tell me that "his" time was not linear (as it CLEARLY was linear in his belief) but in the end, he could not...which proved to me, his form of buddism was created by the mind of man...in the 3d-5 sense world. EVerything was past life past life past life...I brought the question of "OK, what about your 'future life'? If time does not exist, then seeing a future life is just as easy as a 'past' life...but this was stepping on toes...For it would erase and negate the wonderful mystery of the Dali Lama...who interestingly enough seems to ALWAYS come back as a man!!! rolleyes  If Mr Dali does what so many other (sssshhhhhhhh: "Normal")  projectors can do, such as remote viewing and see future events, even perhaps their own future lives...then what Dali claims he (all of the He's) can do....is essentially no big deal!

Well. IMHO.

OK, sorry to get off subject there, but much of this camp covered budda dreaming stuff. It was not for phasers like myself.
So unfortunately we only got half of Laberge in that sense.

The referenced article from Maj Tom, however....first off, it is out of date; last reference was 1989. Just looking at this forum and the people who experience OOB and other Phasing experiences, clearly shows Many forms of OOBs are NOT DREAMS! IMHO.
From my Own experiences, How could I see and know what was about to happen (whether in a few seconds, minutes, or days) in a dream, and it be exactly what followed in waking reality? And experiences that I was not even a part of sometimes....just a 'fly on the wall' per say.

And how could Monroe do all he did if those were just Dreams??? And Any level of LD???
And Joe McMoneagle and the Remote viewing he nailed time and time again ...I've heard his talks ( he lives near Monroe Inst. (is extended family) and comes for Thursday pizza)...and he tells the whole story, not what you see of him on TV when he was put to the test (which he blew away). Unfortunately, TV viewers didn't see what he really did, and wouldn't let TV release it...but it blew their socks off and scared the producer poop-less!
This was NOT LUCID DREAMING! How Can it be?

Correct me if I am wrong, but following Monroe's and Now Frank's wonderfully simplified Phasing, LD is just one of the Focus levels...the land of the millions of wanderings, I think is what he calls it.
Now this makes sense to me:-) at least with MY experiences...

So, TVOS brings to light the ongoing debate!
Perhaps we can take this topic to the OOB discussion?
I would really like to elaborate and get other's views on this too.
I will talk to Laberge and Lucidity more on this too. (I've already rattled the cage)  wink  and awaiting reply!

OFP Cheesy
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« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2005, 23:44:21 »

Oilfieldpilot,

I read Stephen's material a long time ago and its good to be objective on his approach and reading. But it still (to me) doesn't answer near verified death experiences, out of body/phasing verifications, clairvoyance, esp etc. I think this is where Stephen falls short and can't back this up.

Its not guess work, or someone presented the answers to us ahead of time. As of lately, I've been working on the card experiments and its coming along good with verification. Not to mention, when I projected last week, had no idea it was going to rain in the physical (hours later), but in the astral rain was pouring down.  Coincidence? I doubt it!

Its too bad that Stephen brought in the Buddhist Guru and direct questions about phasing/oobe/vibrations etc he could have shed light on. Why did time run out? Was this a topic that Stephen was trying to avoid or could not answer?

Tvos
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« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2005, 01:42:30 »

Hi TVOS!

The camp was 10 days, but as I said, we only got about half of that with Stephen. This was the year he invited the "eastern" thinking into the program (once every 3 yrs or so). The Budda-gurus are really into all that yoga, energy, and meditation...enlightenment stuff.
But it didn't appeal to those of us who really "believe" that it is just another religion...one of Monroe's Belief Spheres.

Anyway, the guru was good and shared lots of dream yoga....well, talked about it at least. I tried to get into it, but 15 min sessions with someone talking was too distracting cry

At the end of the program, those of us who were more into the facts and not fantasy, highly encouraged the staff that we wanted more...and the idea of some really tailored "graduate" programs are hopefully in the works!

I have brought this to the Lucidity forum (from the camp, so I 'think' it's private...but not sure. )
I was told this from a member who has been an  LDer and TLI junkie for quite some time:
Here is his reply to essentially your and our questions:

+++++++++++
AK, just a word on semantics, regarding all of the experiences you mention, asking how can they be LDs: Remember, no experience can be an LD unless 1)you are asleep, 2)you are dreaming, and 3)you know you're dreaming. You have to have all three going.

So, if you are not asleep, it can't be an LD; if you are asleep, but happen to believe you're OOB, it also can't be an LD. In the latter case, however, it could be a dream that's not recognized as such.

There's a lot of material on the forum already on OBE's and other states, and a good article comparing OBE and dreams on the Lucidity Institute website, www.lucidity.com. See:

Varieties of Lucid Dreaming Experience
Stephen LaBerge * and Donald J. DeGracia

Keep those great questions coming!
P.
============

Another thing I did notice at dreamcamp. I inquired to a staff member, who also has done Monroe for over 20 years, LD questions regarding sleepwalking. LaBerge tends to reallllly stick to the Definition of REM. and LD's happen in REM....but one MUST, by definition, have the sleep paralysis. SO, a sleepwalker cannot be in REM, by definition. But this is not to say we do not dream in Other sleep levels...ie the deeper delta and theta levels.
I questioned this as I come from a family of adult sleepwalkers, and we act out our dreams very much like Lucid dreaming.

Anyway, their definition of LD shows to me that OOB (and IB as I call some if my experiences, as I never left my physical, but experienced presence AND future events concurrently) and AP....which clearly can and DO happen when we are awake...and never passed thru sleep cycles to get there...can NOT be any form of LD. Apples and oranges.

On the otherhand, I also believe one can have OOBs while IN LDs...as I myself have had these too!
I had an OOB while in an LD when I was  at Gateway! (actually when we were on a break...of all times!) cheesy

Hope this helps...but I think we've merely scratched the tip of the iceberg.

I mentioned taking this to the general forum to get other opinions? since this is a quiet corner in the Permanent Topics..... smiley

Happy travels,
ofp
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« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2005, 03:46:12 »

Oilfieldpilot,


Quote

Anyway, their definition of LD shows to me that OOB (and IB as I call some if my experiences, as I never left my physical, but experienced presence AND future events concurrently) and AP....which clearly can and DO happen when we are awake...and never passed thru sleep cycles to get there...can NOT be any form of LD. Apples and oranges.


Thank You for sharing the information with us all. In your statement what future events were you able to validate from your OOBE experience? Anything to do with the card experiment, validation of numbers, names, past life,tragic event?

Another interesting fact since I started executing this card verification, the numbers or suit on the cards do not change when I view during the OOBE. I've verified this three times already by looking at the card, looking away and back at the card. According to the ld studies that numbers, names change during the lucid dream.


Quote

On the other hand, I also believe one can have OOBs while IN LDs...as I myself have had these too!  I had an OOB while in an LD when I was at Gateway! (actually when we were on a break...of all times!)  



Secondly, one of the experiments that I had setup was video recording my physical body falling to sleep. Estimated by the time stamp of the video that it took me 5-10 mins to put myself into the trance state and have the OOBE.  The video shows that the duration of the of the experience lasted about 3 minutes.

Nothing spectacular from the video showed only a physical body sleeping during oobe. The few things that I will point out is that my facial expression twitched as the heavy vibrations ran its course and my arm lifting. During the oobe I was waving my astral hands, screaming, and exited the body to a distanced traveled 20ft. While I was out, I threw objects around, screamed and was pulled back.

My study experiment of trial and error lasted two months. The hardest part of the whole experiment was sleeping with the lights on, pressure from video recording trying to produce the oobe.

I really do want to revisit this again and now that technology is on our side, I plan on purchasing a few IP video cameras that will record my physical body and target locations in my house.

My question to you if you? How long does it take for REM sleep to activate? Five minutes, 1hr, 2hrs? Correct my if I'm wrong on this but I was reading that the lucid dream occurs in stage 5 after 90 minutes into the sleeping rhythm?  I know for a fact when I have my OOBE's its within the first 15 to 30 minutes. Also,  when I awake in the morning and go back to sleep the projection is instant during the transition to the trance state.

Well, I've typed all I can for now - sorry about the length and questions.


Tvos[/quote]
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« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2005, 04:51:40 »

Hi again!
Wow, you've really done some work! I'll be interested in your future results as well!

I'll clarify something I didn't before. So far, or only until recently, ALL of my "experiences" have been spontaneous.
What I called my In-body experiences and future -seeing, what actually would happen, and verry often when I was a kid,
I would be wide awake...say, standing in a yard around family and friends, just minding my own biz...this is an easy example. Then I would see...'experience' in full 5 senses, something that was about to happen; usually a few minutes later in reality. Best way I can explain, it was as though I was multi-tasking. My Current reality in which everyone else was experiencing, as 'time' ticked away, was still there, if full, no change. I didn't see, feel any nonsense like a fog/haze/lightheadedness...but the 'forward viewing' was as if I was able to experience what was about to happen, AND what was really happening, AT the same time. It is a Knowing, but you see, feel, hear, taste, smell the event that is about to happen, before it happens. And no..it was not "flashing" scenes, or as if you'd been hit by a falling cinder block. Just as you are sitting and reading this, the experience flows smoothly and you just experience it as it unfolds. And then when it Actually Does happen, you simply...re-live the experience...same feelings, gee I hope this makes sense!
It is literally experiencing 2 experiences at once. The one now, and the one about to happen. And there is No strangeness at all when this happens...it just meshes in like it belongs there!
And so you just wait a while and within a few minutes, to the next day (less frequent)the exact same unfolds...and no...I never changed anything either. I did not know to. Strange part, it is much different from intuition, a self-preservation thing going on I suppose.?

And to answer your question, YES, everything I "saw" or experienced, unfolded later with 100% accuracy, or to me, it was an exact copy, or replay of events. Neat huh?

Only recently have I realized you can take control and do these things At Will! So that is my current quest!

I don't feel I need to "Test" what is happening...or prove anything to myself. I know it happens. I just want to Do it when I want, and explore deeper, farther, and within. AND have fun with LD and use them to better myself in things I do in waking life Cheesy

Hope this helps to clarify my previous post a bit!

-ofp
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« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2005, 07:59:08 »

Oilfieldpilot and other Ap Friends,


Here's a detailed journal of the video astral projection that I recorded on 3/5/1996. I reviewed the tape last night and refreshed my viewing of the event.

To be exact, it took me 9mins  37 seconds to enter the trance state with the vibrations running their course, heavy and painful.  My face expressions you can see a sudden jolt with my which signaled the vibrations running its course.

The experience started when the vibrations kicked in and when I finally awakened. The total running time is 8 mins  34 seconds. The time of the experience in the astral seemed 2-3 minutes, but in the physical it was 8 mins and 34 seconds to be exact. So I guess that time is accelerated in the astral while in the physical is slow?

Well, anyways here's the journal in its glory. I can't wait until I get the ip cameras and do more research with this. Do I believe that astral projection exists "Yes" and we are able to survive outside of the body after death or during physical life "Yes". Why the need to experiment? - Its my analytical mind and curiosity to test,experiment, and hopeful my data will help others along their path.

BTW: Once I purchase a video capture device I will upload it to this site for research and review.


=================



03/05/1993
4:38am-4:56am

*The Astral Projection Recorded*
*To VHS Video Tape!*


Note: To bend light is a metaphor that I heard in a movie of making oneself invisible. Also, the time on the VHS video was super long play, hence duration time of the experience was longer then sequence of events.


For the last past 4 months I've been trying to capture on VHS video tape a astral-projection, but there have been many attempts of failure due to many variables. I believe that the camera is a mental barrier in the way of my astral projections in trying to capture it on video tape, but tonight I changed that.

I was downloading a few files to my Macintosh computer and decided
to leave the lights on in my room with the video camera recording. I'd say that it took me about ten minutes to enter the hypnotic state, how I get there I really don't know, I just wake up while my body is asleep and I have the ability to bend light.


Once I awakened into the hypnotic state I knew that the camera was
recording so I tried the following experiments:

Screaming "Rush, I'm here, or Ahhhhhhhhh...."
Waving my hands in front of me

Feeling the vibrations and making them stronger

From that point on I fell to the floor hitting the side of the bed really
hard feeling the pain and making a loud noise. I could feel the sensation of
being pulled back to the physical body but I was able embrace myself
against the bed to resist the pull. While looking around the room I didn't
get the chance to see if the video camera was there or if my physical body
was there either.

Looking at the door entrance to my room, I decided to bring
the door to me without mobility, once I was at the door I cruised down
to the hallway and into the front room.  The front room was pitch black
and very hard to see the details of the room, also the only thing I could
really see was the front door. I made it to the front door but was
immediately pulled back to the physical body, from there I awakened with
a little confusing of what took place, shook my head like I was in a trance or something.. I knew that I succeeded in recording the physical body while my soul was able to bend light.

First thing I did was rewind the tape on the camera to view
the physical body movements during the astral-projection. I wasn't
expecting to see much but I managed to keep calm while the tape was
rewinding.

Looking thru the camera eye-lens I saw my physical body just as if I was sleeping, I could see a few movements of my body but nothing
extraordinary. I also saw that I was raising my arm up in the air a little bit like I was batting something away, like a fly for example.

About ten seconds before awakening my eyes opened up for about 5 seconds then closed, after that again my eyes opened then I shook my head like I was in a trance or a spell and reality came to me of what just took place.


* Sequence Of Physical Body Movements *
   * During A Astral Projection!! * - VHS Time-Line

4:47am  My body jerked once which you also could see it on the facial
             expression. (Note: This is when the vibrations hit )

4:49am  Head turns to the right.

4:49am  Seconds later I raise my hand a little bit to scratch my face then
             the hand rests itself upon the chest.

4:52am  Light jerk of my head.

4:53am  My head moves a little bit.

4:53am  Seconds later my arm lifts a little bit up in the air to
             bat away something. Example: like batting away a fly.

4:56am  Heads turns back into original position, eyes open for a few
             seconds, eyes look around then instantly close.

4:56am  Eyes open again, shook my head back n fourth which looked
             like I was hypnotized or in a trance state that I had just
             snapped out of. I saw on my face that I was thinking of what
             just happened, took a few seconds to realize than I jumped
             out of bed anxiously to see the playback of the recorded
             astral-projection.
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« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2005, 09:22:45 »

Cool, were your body opened it's eyes were you actually opening your eyes consciously?
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« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2005, 14:40:39 »

Labouts,

Towards the very end of the experience, my eyes flicked open quickly and closed. About 30 seconds later I shook my head and awakened from the trance to physical. I believe that my astral body was re-aligning, adjusting and transferring my higher mental awareness shifting it back to the physical.

At times, I've noticed when I awaken to the physical its brief and I enter the trance state quickly. This is because my physical body is so tired and easily accessible to fall asleep quicker then the norm. With that in mind, using imagination, feeling oneself roll around in circles the transfer of consciousness from lower to higher is easier.

Hope this answers your question!

Tvos
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« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2005, 20:00:38 »

Major Tom,

I knew you would get back into it. Sometimes ya just need a breather from it all. A lot of mental and physical work indeed!

I even surprise myself at times too with some of my experiments!

I love the Fall, but fooey on the winter!!

Tvos
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