Lost To The Ages - Monroe-Muldoon-Castanada-Leadbeater

[tvos]

Seleski,

About three months ago I really started hitting the ap's real hard. Focusing my intent, energy, feeling that excitement and working towards these experiences once again. At the most, I've had 3 weeks dry spell during these 3 months. I questioned "why" and what am I doing wrong?

I was getting a little worried until 3 days ago when I hit it big with the card experiment. What I think really helped was setting my alarm clock to go off every 1/2hr. That would force me to slip into the hypnotic state easily. When I did come back from the projection, I was able to determine that it took me 1/2hr to enter or wake up into the trance state and leave. I think by having the alarm clock set and ready to go off every half hour forced me to wake up or into the trance state.


Maybe this will help in the future?
Tvos

[Selski]

Tvos

I've often thought about setting the alarm - but I love my sleep too much.  I hate it being interrupted.  

During the dry spell, I knew they'd come back eventually.  And I also know that I'll be projecting regularly again in the not too distant future - I can feel it in my bones!

Sarah

[tvos]

Selski,

I understand what you are talking about enjoying sleep! Its a beautiful price we pay for projecting!

Its either our beauty sleep or projection..

But you are right about sensing when a projection will occur. I just knew somewhere in the back of my mind that I would be successfull in projecting last week. I think the alarm clock added to the experience!

Tvos

[tvos]

Selski,

The night before I tried setting my alarm to go off every 1/2hr and it didn't seem to work as effective like before. Maybe, I should try every 20mins to see if there's a better chance.  

I wish that I knew why some days I can fluently project and others why even bother? There must be something within the physical that can be easily tapped into at will projections.

I started putting together a spreadsheet and am tracking my food intake, hours of sleep, and dates of projections - false awakening, and lucid dreams.

Tvos

[tvos]

anyone here met up with Castaneda, or Don Juan? what about the others like ledbetter or carrington?

tvos

[Selski]

The night before I tried setting my alarm to go off every 1/2hr and it didn't seem to work as effective like before. Maybe, I should try every 20mins to see if there's a better chance.  

The other night I moved my alarm hand to 4am, was just about to set it, and chickened out!  I don't want to be rudely awoken at 4am  

I'm happy for it to happen when it happens to me.  Trying to force it just gets frustrating.

Anyway, back to the original topic...

Sarah

[tvos]

sometimes forcing it can burn one out. the other night I was tinkering with the alarm clock and see if it would help. i was able to produce a obe but the length was short and not fruitful. during the whole morning i was in the repetitive cycle of awake/sleep and messed up the whole day.

tvos

[tvos]

what happened to this becoming a sticky?

tvos

[oilfieldpilot]

With regards to keeping 'in touch' with Robert Monroe,
-actually yes, the TMI gang and junkies do have rendezvous with him during the advanced courses.
Pretty intense and fulfilling!

BTW,
HI ALL! Frank and Major Tom!
I am Back...had to furlough when worked off a ship for a while....
Then I just returned from Stephen LaBerge's 10 day Lucid Dream Camp in Hawaii!

WOW! talk about cool...LaBerge Walks his talk!  

I've spread this forum over into the Lucid forums and groups too!
AstralPulse is second to NONE!

glad to be back,

-ofp

[oilfieldpilot]

Thanks MajTom!

Yes, LaBerge does have his 'theories' regarding LD and OOB. But at least he took a real risky career step back in early 80's and brought "this" into the Both the Academia and Science community!
And being at Stanford holds a lot water too.

His work in the labs have been fantastic...his lab rats have been able to signal with their eyes once they are lucid; then, accomplish several tasks to link reality with dreamland, etc.
They have done experiments to show how TIME exists in the LD world....essentially it is the Same as in waking reality. Subjects would eye signal for what they estimated was 10 seconds, one minute, etc. and they were dead on or damn close to a waking person's estimations.

His sex LD lab rat studies too were very interesting as well as Hilarious!  Subjects had to go "find someone in their LD to get laid..."In the interest of Science" !

Yes, the camp was well worth it. It is great to see how far people are bringing modern science into this 'wider reality'. But too, when confront the medical establishment....uh well....it's still just....unexplained!

Yeah, riiiight!

Glad to be back
ofp

[tvos]

Oilfieldpilot,

I read Stephen's book "Lucid Dreaming" back in the day. How does Stephen compare lucid dreams to OOBE's.  Its been awhile and I know he's done some incredible studies and explorations with this.

My biggest question is: How can a projector or NDE person (near death experience) verify targets and experiments when Stephen dismiss this as a lucid dream?

Tvos

[oilfieldpilot]

Thanks MajTom for the reference!

We tried to hit this point at the camp. Unfortunately time ran out as this was one of those extraordinary topics.
This camp also was shared by a Buddist Guru who took center stage for half+ of the program. Those who are into that kinda thing really benefited.
But while I learned a lot....I also learned that buddism is JUST ANOTHER RELIGION AND BELIEF...actually....a BUNCH of conflicting beliefs...depending on what Type of buddism one believes in. In this case...the speaker followed Tibetan tradition. I cornered him and questioned his belief about "Time". I told him to tell me that "his" time was not linear (as it CLEARLY was linear in his belief) but in the end, he could not...which proved to me, his form of buddism was created by the mind of man...in the 3d-5 sense world. EVerything was past life past life past life...I brought the question of "OK, what about your 'future life'? If time does not exist, then seeing a future life is just as easy as a 'past' life...but this was stepping on toes...For it would erase and negate the wonderful mystery of the Dali Lama...who interestingly enough seems to ALWAYS come back as a man!!!  If Mr Dali does what so many other (sssshhhhhhhh: "Normal")  projectors can do, such as remote viewing and see future events, even perhaps their own future lives...then what Dali claims he (all of the He's) can do....is essentially no big deal!

Well. IMHO.

OK, sorry to get off subject there, but much of this camp covered budda dreaming stuff. It was not for phasers like myself.
So unfortunately we only got half of Laberge in that sense.

The referenced article from Maj Tom, however....first off, it is out of date; last reference was 1989. Just looking at this forum and the people who experience OOB and other Phasing experiences, clearly shows Many forms of OOBs are NOT DREAMS! IMHO.
From my Own experiences, How could I see and know what was about to happen (whether in a few seconds, minutes, or days) in a dream, and it be exactly what followed in waking reality? And experiences that I was not even a part of sometimes....just a 'fly on the wall' per say.

And how could Monroe do all he did if those were just Dreams??? And Any level of LD???
And Joe McMoneagle and the Remote viewing he nailed time and time again ...I've heard his talks ( he lives near Monroe Inst. (is extended family) and comes for Thursday pizza)...and he tells the whole story, not what you see of him on TV when he was put to the test (which he blew away). Unfortunately, TV viewers didn't see what he really did, and wouldn't let TV release it...but it blew their socks off and scared the producer poop-less!
This was NOT LUCID DREAMING! How Can it be?

Correct me if I am wrong, but following Monroe's and Now Frank's wonderfully simplified Phasing, LD is just one of the Focus levels...the land of the millions of wanderings, I think is what he calls it.
Now this makes sense to me:-) at least with MY experiences...

So, TVOS brings to light the ongoing debate!
Perhaps we can take this topic to the OOB discussion?
I would really like to elaborate and get other's views on this too.
I will talk to Laberge and Lucidity more on this too. (I've already rattled the cage)    and awaiting reply!

OFP

[tvos]

Oilfieldpilot,

I read Stephen's material a long time ago and its good to be objective on his approach and reading. But it still (to me) doesn't answer near verified death experiences, out of body/phasing verifications, clairvoyance, esp etc. I think this is where Stephen falls short and can't back this up.

Its not guess work, or someone presented the answers to us ahead of time. As of lately, I've been working on the card experiments and its coming along good with verification. Not to mention, when I projected last week, had no idea it was going to rain in the physical (hours later), but in the astral rain was pouring down.  Coincidence? I doubt it!

Its too bad that Stephen brought in the Buddhist Guru and direct questions about phasing/oobe/vibrations etc he could have shed light on. Why did time run out? Was this a topic that Stephen was trying to avoid or could not answer?

Tvos

[oilfieldpilot]

Hi TVOS!

The camp was 10 days, but as I said, we only got about half of that with Stephen. This was the year he invited the "eastern" thinking into the program (once every 3 yrs or so). The Budda-gurus are really into all that yoga, energy, and meditation...enlightenment stuff.
But it didn't appeal to those of us who really "believe" that it is just another religion...one of Monroe's Belief Spheres.

Anyway, the guru was good and shared lots of dream yoga....well, talked about it at least. I tried to get into it, but 15 min sessions with someone talking was too distracting

At the end of the program, those of us who were more into the facts and not fantasy, highly encouraged the staff that we wanted more...and the idea of some really tailored "graduate" programs are hopefully in the works!

I have brought this to the Lucidity forum (from the camp, so I 'think' it's private...but not sure. )
I was told this from a member who has been an  LDer and TLI junkie for quite some time:
Here is his reply to essentially your and our questions:

+++++++++++
AK, just a word on semantics, regarding all of the experiences you mention, asking how can they be LDs: Remember, no experience can be an LD unless 1)you are asleep, 2)you are dreaming, and 3)you know you're dreaming. You have to have all three going.

So, if you are not asleep, it can't be an LD; if you are asleep, but happen to believe you're OOB, it also can't be an LD. In the latter case, however, it could be a dream that's not recognized as such.

There's a lot of material on the forum already on OBE's and other states, and a good article comparing OBE and dreams on the Lucidity Institute website, www.lucidity.com. See:

Varieties of Lucid Dreaming Experience
Stephen LaBerge * and Donald J. DeGracia

Keep those great questions coming!
P.
============

Another thing I did notice at dreamcamp. I inquired to a staff member, who also has done Monroe for over 20 years, LD questions regarding sleepwalking. LaBerge tends to reallllly stick to the Definition of REM. and LD's happen in REM....but one MUST, by definition, have the sleep paralysis. SO, a sleepwalker cannot be in REM, by definition. But this is not to say we do not dream in Other sleep levels...ie the deeper delta and theta levels.
I questioned this as I come from a family of adult sleepwalkers, and we act out our dreams very much like Lucid dreaming.

Anyway, their definition of LD shows to me that OOB (and IB as I call some if my experiences, as I never left my physical, but experienced presence AND future events concurrently) and AP....which clearly can and DO happen when we are awake...and never passed thru sleep cycles to get there...can NOT be any form of LD. Apples and oranges.

On the otherhand, I also believe one can have OOBs while IN LDs...as I myself have had these too!
I had an OOB while in an LD when I was  at Gateway! (actually when we were on a break...of all times!)

Hope this helps...but I think we've merely scratched the tip of the iceberg.

I mentioned taking this to the general forum to get other opinions? since this is a quiet corner in the Permanent Topics.....

Happy travels,
ofp

[tvos]

Oilfieldpilot,

Anyway, their definition of LD shows to me that OOB (and IB as I call some if my experiences, as I never left my physical, but experienced presence AND future events concurrently) and AP....which clearly can and DO happen when we are awake...and never passed thru sleep cycles to get there...can NOT be any form of LD. Apples and oranges.

Thank You for sharing the information with us all. In your statement what future events were you able to validate from your OOBE experience? Anything to do with the card experiment, validation of numbers, names, past life,tragic event?

Another interesting fact since I started executing this card verification, the numbers or suit on the cards do not change when I view during the OOBE. I've verified this three times already by looking at the card, looking away and back at the card. According to the ld studies that numbers, names change during the lucid dream.

On the other hand, I also believe one can have OOBs while IN LDs...as I myself have had these too!  I had an OOB while in an LD when I was at Gateway! (actually when we were on a break...of all times!)  

Secondly, one of the experiments that I had setup was video recording my physical body falling to sleep. Estimated by the time stamp of the video that it took me 5-10 mins to put myself into the trance state and have the OOBE.  The video shows that the duration of the of the experience lasted about 3 minutes.

Nothing spectacular from the video showed only a physical body sleeping during oobe. The few things that I will point out is that my facial expression twitched as the heavy vibrations ran its course and my arm lifting. During the oobe I was waving my astral hands, screaming, and exited the body to a distanced traveled 20ft. While I was out, I threw objects around, screamed and was pulled back.

My study experiment of trial and error lasted two months. The hardest part of the whole experiment was sleeping with the lights on, pressure from video recording trying to produce the oobe.

I really do want to revisit this again and now that technology is on our side, I plan on purchasing a few IP video cameras that will record my physical body and target locations in my house.

My question to you if you? How long does it take for REM sleep to activate? Five minutes, 1hr, 2hrs? Correct my if I'm wrong on this but I was reading that the lucid dream occurs in stage 5 after 90 minutes into the sleeping rhythm?  I know for a fact when I have my OOBE's its within the first 15 to 30 minutes. Also,  when I awake in the morning and go back to sleep the projection is instant during the transition to the trance state.

Well, I've typed all I can for now - sorry about the length and questions.


Tvos[/quote]