Validation thread!

[catmeow]

Very interesting post spacewrangler. Yes there is always that doubt that we are just flying around in some hyper-simulation, and a personal validation is something only YOU can know is true and everyone else has to take on trust.  But having a validation also changes your outlook: So it is REAL! 

Also I have often thought about the hyper-simulation thing. Now I have stood in my "hyper-simulation" and examined the scenery around me in microscopic detail. I have been in gardens, by streams, in cities, in houses, in locations which did not correspond to anything earthly etc etc, and I have been absolutely gob-smacked by the beauty, quality and detail of what I was seeing. I have stood in bustling city streets and observed the bricks and mortar in minute detail, the shiny shop windows and the wares on display, the appearance of people walking by, their clothes, hair and faces, the cars and buses gliding by, signs and adverts and so on and so on. I have walked through markets which don't exist on earth, with innumerable wonderful items on display.  Every corner I turned would present new delights to view.

If I were to sit at an easel with paints and canvas, even after a YEAR of imagination, I couldn't create even a tiny fraction of the detail I see every second whilst LD/APing.  If this is all created by my subconscious mind, then the CREATIVE power of that subconscious mind is INFINITE compared with my conscious creative mind. Either that or it's real.  For those reading, who have yet to experience an OBE, LD or AP, the visual feast is awesome.

[spacewrangler]

Agreed, catmeow. I'm an artist, and I went into this as an attempt to expand my creative abilities after having had just the tiniest taste of what was out there...or in there. It seemed like an awful shame to have a universe of potent creativity bubbling just beneath the surface of my waking mind without dipping a toe into it now and then! On my travels I tried not to judge what I was seeing...if it was generated by the wet sponge in my head, then fantastic! If not, then...fantastic! Either way it's valid and hugely important. Either 99% of the population live their lives without knowing a fraction of the potential inside them, or 99% of the population live in total ignorance of the cosmic setup surrounding them!

On the way though, these little validations kept popping up, pointing to some common reality behind everything. For years I'd had heavy 'false awakening' experiences, where naturally none of the light switches worked. If I'm wandering around an environment of my own creation, why would the lights not work as expected? If I looked carefully I could see a faint red glow in the bulb filaments, but that was all. So I just happened to stumble across an article written by another person who experienced exactly the same thing. And another, and another. Either we all had the same neural circuits in our heads, and those circuits applied the same rules to something invented only about a hundred years earlier...or we were all stumbling about the same environments.

Then the time travel experience happened, seeming so carefully constructed to show me something verifiable (right down to the very specific date), and now my position is 'well...there's something going on there!'

[catmeow]

Hi spacewrangler, well expressed and also now you`re spooking me! I too have had the exact same light switch problem. In LDs (or APs or whatever they are) I am unable to operate light switches. I can flick the switch, but nothing happens.  At best I get a dim glow from the filament, just as you described. This started happening to me when I was very young, maybe 9 or 10 years old and before I started having LDs. Occasionally when I was a kid I would have `strange` dreams in which I was walking around my house. The atmosphere was eerie and I had difficulty moving, like wading through a thick fog. When I tried to turn the hall light on it would glow dimly. In these `fog dreams` I could never get a light to turn on. A few years later I discovered I had the identical problem with LDs. I have read accounts from others who have had the same light switch problems. So either there is more reality to these things than just subconscious ramblings, or else we are all wired that way, as you say.

[spacewrangler]

The 'thick fog' you describe is spot-on as well. Moving around is like dragging yourself through treacle (sugar syrup...molasses...depending on where you're from.) The eerie feel is often there as well. I've heard it described as 'etheric' projection--a different grade of subtle body between the physical and astral. (I can't say if that's a 'real' concept but the experiences are all very similar, so as a shorthand it works for me.) I have a rough 'working theory' of that state--imagine a close duplicate of the real world where time slowed to a crawl but you could still move around--the lights would dim (lazy electrons, slow photons!) and the air would feel thick as you pushed through it. I've tried turning on the TV--it just gave out a low hum.

Have you ever tried looking in a mirror in that state? I've seen some pretty horrific/twisted versions of myself.

[catmeow]

Yes, I've heard of the etheric projection idea too. It's a little out of fashion these days but what I experienced as a 9 year old many years ago is no respecter of fashion! Yes it was like walking through treacle EXACTLY as you described and everything seemed 'grey'. So there may be something in the etheric projection idea.  My LD/AP experiences which started when I was about 15 are much more sunny and upbeat, but I still can't turn a light on!

With regards to looking in a mirror I have done it many times. I usually see a slightly younger version of myself (idealised self image?) although I have occasionally seen a person who bore no similarity to me at all which comes as a shock when it happens. On one occasion I saw a very nice looking female (I'm male). I have occasionally seen no person (I didn't cast a reflection).  So I guess I usually see an idealised self image or else whatever I happen to be thinking of!

[Gummage]

Just wanted to ask: does science actually aknowledge that validations from OBE's do actually occur? all the tests I read about with people attempting validations under labratory conditions seem to just fail but do validations really ever happen? its hard for me to believe that all the claims of OBE validations are false or fabricated. 

I am actually trying to find things on mainstream scientists talking about the whole thing but not found anything.

[CFTraveler]

Just wanted to ask: does science actually aknowledge that validations from OBE's do actually occur? all the tests I read about with people attempting validations under labratory conditions seem to just fail but do validations really ever happen? its hard for me to believe that all the claims of OBE validations are false or fabricated. 

I am actually trying to find things on mainstream scientists talking about the whole thing but not found anything.

Validations are not proof- if you read some of ours you will see that they are isolated incidents that show us we received information that was not available to us by any other way.  So logic dictates that it must have been acquired in the way we experienced it.
Scientific proof is a whole different animal- it requires falsifiability- that is, to follow a protocol that works 100% of the time under controlled circumstances- and if there is one fail it means it is not proven.  I can't imagine how AP or even RV can be held to such standards- therefore it cannot be scientifically proven.
And of course, since science does not acknowledge personal experience as proof, the theme is moot, IMO.

[catmeow]

Just wanted to ask: does science actually aknowledge that validations from OBE's do actually occur? all the tests I read about with people attempting validations under labratory conditions seem to just fail but do validations really ever happen?

There are no scientifically controlled experiments in which OBE validation has occurred to my knowledge. There have been studies conducted with Bob Monroe and Ingo Swann which were scientifically inconclusive. Swann was also investigated by the SRI in a series of remote viewing experiments which produced statistically very positive results. Pat Price was also tested at the SRI, by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ, and produced better results. However, the nature of ESP makes it difficult to repeat these experiments over and over again with the high levels of success required by science.

However, the best validations occur during NDE. These are almost always highly veridical, on those occasions where the NDEr describes events which can actually be verified. NDEs pose problems for mainstream science, since they appear to `prove` that powerful veridical lucid conscious experiences can occur whilst the physical brain is free of blood flow and electrical activity.

The most famous case is Pam Reynolds (youtube it). Pam Reynolds was on the operating table, fully instrumented, when the blood flow to her brain was shut off, the temperature was lowered and electrical activity in the cortex and brain stem stopped. When she was brought round she described people, procedures and instruments which were present/occurred/used, during the period when she had a completely non functioning brain, as confirmed by the instrumentation. This case can not be explained away as a hallucination occurring whilst she was being revived, since the information she provided was only available at a time when her brain, according to the instrumentation, was dead.

Most reasonable scientific commentators, admit that this case is inexplicable using mainstream scientific concepts. An actual change in scientific theories regarding the interaction of mind and brain is required. Pam Reynolds isn't the only case. There are more and more.  Hardened skeptics try their best to explain these away, but the truth is their explanations do not stack up. I am not saying that I am convinced that the mind can operate without a physical brain, but there are NO current scientific models which explain Pam Reynold's case.

So if it's strong validations you want, and veridical descriptions of events as seen from an OBE perspective, look into NDEs. There are thousands of cases!

[Gummage]

Just wanted to know also......has there been any fairly recent tests trying to get validations? seems no one does it.

[Bedeekin]

This is the only recorded account of a scientifically controlled OOBE experiment conducted by Charles Tart.

http://www.psywww.com/asc/obe/missz.html

Some of you may be familiar with this.

[todd421757]

Around 3:30 am on 3/4/12, my girlfriend was awakened after feeling my body go into a state of vibrations. She felt my heart beat racing also. Then she said the vibrations stopped, and she heard me stop breathing without a noticeable heartbeat. She said a few seconds later she saw a white image of me at my bedroom doorway. The she heard me making a knocking sound on the dresser in the bedroom. She then got scared and pulled the covers over her face. She doesn't know anything about out of body experiences or vibrations. She has never had an OBE either.

All I can remember is attempting an OBE technique that utilizes the high pitch sound in your head. I thought I fell asleep. But I must had an unconscious OBE.

Has anyone here ever had anyone see them in an OBE?

[rezaf]

Yes once both my mom and my sister saw my astral body while they where watching TV in the living room. Also one time I was spying on a girl I had crush on at college but she suddenly turned back as if she could feel my presence. However I never confirmed this with her  .

[Bedeekin]

Around 3:30 am on 3/4/12, my girlfriend was awakened after feeling my body go into a state of vibrations. She felt my heart beat racing also. Then she said the vibrations stopped, and she heard me stop breathing without a noticeable heartbeat. She said a few seconds later she saw a white image of me at my bedroom doorway. The she heard me making a knocking sound on the dresser in the bedroom. She then got scared and pulled the covers over her face. She doesn't know anything about out of body experiences or vibrations. She has never had an OBE either.

All I can remember is attempting an OBE technique that utilizes the high pitch sound in your head. I thought I fell asleep. But I must had an unconscious OBE.

Has anyone here ever had anyone see them in an OBE?

Yes.

12/07/93
3:15AM
I began with strong vibrations and came out. I decided to visit Kathryn at home. I floated out through the side of the house and found I was instantly in front of her school which is a mile and a bit from my house, in between hers. I was half in the ground up to my knees in the gallops and noticed the birds and the dark blue sky of morning approaching.
I watched Acklam Grange school for a couple of minutes and then wondered why I was looking at it. Suddenly I made a swift movement and found I was in Kath?s bedroom looking down at her. I was floating sideways. The bed covers were off her and one of her breasts was showing because her pyjama top was unbuttoned.
I laughed to myself and heard myself saying ?button that up?.
I instantly rushed back to my body and came out of the OOBE.
Duration 15 minutes.  

I met with her the next day... at some point she asked me if I had an OOBE last night. She described that she was half awake and was suddenly drawn to a white see through image of me lying on my side. My voice repeatedly and strangely enough loudly and aggressively saying "BUTTON THAT UP!!! BUTTON IT UP!!!"...

[todd421757]

Bedeekin,

Thanks for sharing that experience. That was definitely a great objective experience.

[catmeow]

Nice one Bedeekin. Your experience, that of todd, plus others I have read seem to indicate that making your presence felt, is much easier than doing the 'card trick'. Perhaps this is one avenue of validation we could all try. So basically, we need to choose a close friend, visit them in the early morning, make our presence felt, and later ask them about it!