What is the scientific theory behind F10/F12--beyond

[Snow Pellets]

What is the scientific explanation/theory for maintaing conscious awareness while changing brainwaves from beta to alpha, and then to delta and theta?  Scientifically speaking, when we "enter F10/F12" and fall asleep consciously, does the trained mind learn to RECOGNIZE the change in brainwave pattern, and use the symptoms that come with it as a preoccupation to keep the mind from drifting, thus loosing conscious will and awareness?  Supposedly when the brain released Melatonin it is supposed to shut off most, if not all, sensory and motor areas of the cerebral cortex.

The other night I was falling asleep and it seemed like if I became so relaxed and then passively imagined a falling feeling, then I remained awake and could slowly feel my brainwaves changing states, and the "tingling" and "vibrational" stages slowly setting in.  Is this technique of passive (NOT ACTIVE.. it seems like when I try to imagine myself descending too much then I remain too preoccupieid on the thought itself and I get nowhere).. but just let the quietness engulf me and the peace and serenity.. until I feel myself falling asleep then slowly and as passive as possible start to imagine what it would be like to descend or "sink" into the bed.  Is this a good start?

[Agntneo]

I suggest you read up on different techniques to maintain awareness.
Hmm Science, yes I'd say you somehow go into the Beta and Theta stages aware, but this is very different from a dream.
Because you don't go to dreamland. You are in your bedroom.

This is why the whole OBE experience is so special and wierd.
I wish we could have some scientifical explination someday.

[Frank]

SP:

I do not quite understand your “science” question but the last paragraph of your post hits on an important aspect that people find hard to get to grips with. It’s where you say, “… it seems like when I try to imagine myself descending too much then I remain too preoccupied on the thought itself and I get nowhere”.

Intense beauty and intense pleasure are always gratuitous, and are revealed only to senses that are not straining. Our nerves are not muscles! To push them is to reduce their efficiency. What you say serves as a classic example of this. I have said ever so many times on this forum that projection is a natural process, but often we need a little metaphysical imagery just to kick-start the process. First, you create the imagery, and then you just let it flow along naturally while allowing yourself to drift with it. The moment you try to force it, that’s when the experience starts leaving you.

So, yes, I would say you are making a good start.

Yours,
Frank

[Snow Pellets]

Frank, do you think that somehow the sensory awareness area of the cortex bypasses the sleep-inducing effects of melanonin when it is released, thus enabling the lucid dreamer/astral traveller to remain conscious during the experience of separation or inner-mind projection/lucid dreaming?

[Frank]

SP:

I hear what you are saying but experience has taught me that it is a mistake to think of the process in such physical terms. Our waking consciousness “shuts down” through habit. There is no “separation” in consciousness. The only barriers that exist between Here and There are the ones that we create for ourselves.

In the past, people have chosen to live their physical experience encased in what you might call a smaller identity, while living out well-defined roles. Nowadays, however, people are seeking to break down those habit-formed barriers and take on a wider sense of identity. This process is entirely mental, there is nothing physical involved. The brain is simply a kind of central processing unit that runs all the physical processes in the body. No thinking goes on in the brain; no memories are stored there, etc. All those kinds of mental faculties are products of the mind.

HTH

Yours,
Frank

[Donal]

Hi there, i'm just curious

What do you think about what Robert Bruce said about when he is in Raised Kundalini state and hundreds of fat fleshy fingers appear to be coming out of his brain, and they form various geometries. And when he thinks of a person the fleshy fingers point to where that person is in the physical world.

Thanks.

[Frank]

Donal:

In answer to your question (you are a fairly new member so you obviously do not realise) but I've said many times before on the forum that I do not do any "energy work" of the kind you read about in Astral Dynamics, for example. So I really have no idea what a "raised Kundalini state" is.

In the process of my work, I can obviously feel various bodily energy centres become more active. But this is not something I ever dwell upon.

Out of curiosity, I did once go through a phase of purposely activating these areas to feel what it was like. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think doing this is more aligned to traditional mysticism. Which wouldn't surprise me as Bob Bruce openly describes himself as a mystic.

I suppose whichever line of study you take, it all leads to the same place at the end of the day. It's just that my origins are what you might call, Monroe School. Whereas Bob Bruce's origins appear to be more Eastern Traditional.

Yours,
Frank

[Snow Pellets]

Frank,

So in simple, what is your take on what happens to our consciousness.. is it that we are conditioned from a very young age to "let" ourselves go to sleep and become unaware of the consciousness that occurs after going to sleep.

To break that cycle, what simple exercise/technique would you recommend?  Just go with the flow and keep the mindset that everyday, when you fall asleep at night, you try to observe as best you can the changes in your perception and keep focusing on that until the distortions themselves are enough to keep ourselves aware of our consciousness evolving beyond F10?

[Potatis]

Frank, I hope you are writing a book! I can't get enough of your posts! It's always fascinating to read everything you write!

Potatis

[Frank]

SP:

Every new arrival undergoes a period of transition. This transition phase is necessary because it takes a while for people to integrate themselves within objective reality. The opposite is also the case in that, after a long period of immersion within objective reality, following disengagement, there is a period of readjustment needed in order that a person can begin living within subjective reality, once again.

However, by puberty (or thereabouts) 99.9% of people have chosen to integrate themselves as fully as possible within objective reality. What we do is place a distinct mental barrier between Here and There, to the extent where we shut ourselves off more or less completely with our subjective aspects, and concentrate our attention almost exclusively on our objective aspects. We still interact with our subjective reality, but we do so in what we call our dreamstate. Most people barely remember their dreams and shrug them off as mere mental meanderings. Our imagination is another strong link we have with subjective reality, which people shut off to a large degree by continually dismissing it as “unreal”.

As I say, by puberty, people have largely aligned themselves to the basic mass belief constructs of our society. (Note: when I talk of society, in this context I mean western or western-style society generally.) One of the mass belief constructs we have is that adults (though “acceptable” for children) who go around hearing voices “in the head” and seeing things that “aren’t there” and such like, are nut-cases who should be locked up for their own good. So most people get the message of what is accepted and what is not, early on in their lives; mainly through parental reinforcement, but also through schooling, and other forms of mass-belief indoctrination systems such as television. Mainstream religion plays an interesting role in that it exploits peoples’ wanting to recognise their wider reality, but does so in a way that actually suppresses and controls it at the same time; thus locking people into a kind of spiritual double bind, which is all very mind-numbing stuff (to say the least).

Anyhow, times are a changing, as they say. Which means these days; progressively more people are “coming awake” so to speak, and allowing certain aspects or elements of their subjective-reality awareness to come into their objective existence… but only under certain circumstances. For example, people might start keeping what is commonly called a “dream diary”. Basically, what they are saying to themselves is, “Under certain circumstances, I will allow a portion of my subjective reality, to bleed-through into my objective-reality awareness, so I can write about it.”

The same basic principle applies to any method or technique, such as meditation, or energy-work, for example. Essentially, what the person is doing in these exercises is setting down the terms and conditions, so to speak, under which they will “allow” a certain aspect of their subjective self to bleed-through into their objective awareness. As I say, there are no barriers within consciousness, only those that we create for our purposes. Most people create barriers early on in their lives in order that they may comply with socially accepted physical norms. But these barriers can be removed by the same act of will that constructed them in the first place.

I have been engaged in this topic 20-odd years, and if someone were to pin me down on which single aspect would be most beneficial for beginners, in my experience it wouldn’t be a method or technique, as such, it would be that of acceptance. And the other most important aspect to my mind is trust. But acceptance is the key to all of this IMO. A person has to accept their wider reality; allow it back into their lives and greet it like a long lost friend. Then simply do as you suggest, i.e. go with the flow of that and observe the changes in your perception.

Unfortunately, many people are in the position where they feel they have tried every method or technique going, yet still haven’t achieved any worthwhile effects. In which case, I would say chances are virtually certain they have an underlying acceptance problem. It’s not the actual technique in itself that causes a person to project. Projection is a natural process, but one that can often take a little meta-physical imagery, wrapped up in a kind of method or technique, to kick-start the natural chain of events.

But pre-requisite to every technique or method, is that it must be performed on a solid basis of acceptance. Because without having that acceptance, whatever you try is just not going to work.

HTH

Yours,
Frank

PS

Potatis: thank you for that wonderfully kind comment. Yes, I am in the process of writing a book which I hope to publish in Spring 2005.

[Potatis]

Excellent Frank! You can count on at least ONE customer.. hehe

Thanks for your contributions on this forum, I have learned a great deal from you.

Potatis

[JAW]

I have been engaged in this topic 20-odd years, and if someone were to pin me down on which single aspect would be most beneficial for beginners, in my experience it wouldn't’t be a method or technique, as such, it would be that of acceptance. And the other most important aspect to my mind is trust. But acceptance is the key to all of this IMO. A person has to accept their wider reality; allow it back into their lives and greet it like a long lost friend. Then simply do as you suggest, i.e. go with the flow of that and observe the changes in your perception.

Hi Frank,
How do you propose that people go about accepting their wider reality? I have had certain experiences that make me accept there is more to what I used to think was a pretty normal physical reality. So I say to myself, I accept its definitely not all that straight forward, but how do I know if I REALLY feel this way deep down? Its like, you might say "I'm not scared of dying" but then if put in that situation you might be terrified. Sometimes you just don't know. So I wonder how you would get people to go about this very important aspect called acceptance? I would say there would be a huge amount of people out there that haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary, who would have nothing to base any alternate beliefs on, and you are asking them to "accept"? When you say acceptance do you really mean "knowing"? Are they both sort of the same thing? Really *Knowing* something requires direct unequivocal experience. What are your thoughts?
Regards.

[Telos]

Acceptance and trust.

Frank, I believe what beginners need most is demonstrable proof. It doesn't have to be absolute proof. Science is inductive after all, and any new evidence can bring down millennia of established thinking. You've said that we are on the verge of a new science, and I agree. So where are our experiments? The Rob's books and our stories are a good start, but no where near enough. Shouldn't we be accumulating more (and better) data and let the data speak for itself?

Beginners need a curious mind and willingness to put their experiences to reason. Acceptance and trust are powerful and can be misplaced, especially in a circumstance where they don't appear to do anything, leading a person to try and put in more acceptance and more trust until they are dilluted and completely brainwashed.

I know that's not what you have in mind, so I'm not accusing you of anything   However, I think we'd serve the beginners much much better by demonstration rather than lecture.

[edited slightly for word choice]

[mactombs]

I second JAW's question. I don't think by "acceptance" it's so easy to understand precisely what you mean, or how you mean it.

I also agree with that Telos says, although I don't think how he uses "acceptance" and how Frank uses it are the same.

[Potatis]

After listening to the recordings of dead people on cassettes I bought from leslieflint.com, there is no doubt there is an afterlife, and death is only an illusion. The spirits describe things that agrees a lot with what Frank says. Listening to what these spirits say certainly widened my reality. Obes and the importance of learning lessons from spirit guides is also discussed, so people should not be afraid to have obes, or even think twice of the reality of them.

Death is an illusion, the spirits vibrate at a higher rate and so we can not see them. If we increase our vibrations, we can go to their sphere, learn lessons which they are always desperate it seems to teach us, and we can return to the physical. Listen to the recordings and you will realise there is so much we don't know, but can explore.

Nobody could be afraid of dying if they heard those recordings, because it is obvious there is no death. So we must use our time here to learn why we are here, and learn lessons. Mistakes are not to be feared, make lots of them and learn. We are all here to learn. If we all persist in trying to raise our consciousness, we will succeed in learning much of what we need to learn from our life experiences and from our guides.

Charlotte Bronte talks about the power of thought, and how what we think manifests in certain spheres. Her example of millions of people who read the same book actually create the visual aspect of those people and their lives in certain spheres, is fascinating. Even though those visual aspects have no spirit, they are there as thought forms. When the book is no longer read, or so popular, those visual aspects fade. Isn't that what we read about here? Human thoughts creating things in the "Astral" world or RTZ? When you hear a spirit talking about it, decades before this forum was ever here, you see that people's experiences here do add up. They are not hallucinations. There are many more examples too that people should explore. It widens one's reality and belief, and strengthens one's determination to grow more spiritually.

Sorry I've written a rant

Potatis