A safe haven for YOU.

[Tyrone]

cainam; I just want to clearify a couple of things.  Organized religion failled because it became organized...  When you organize something you take it away from the people, and it becomes a business.

When I mentioned creation I really had to be delicate with it, as there was no beginning, there was just an alwaysness.  Only the finite mind needs to cling to the idea that there was a beginning, but there was not.  People will believe in infinity from now on, but they cannot accept to have allways been.  

So if you do not believe in a creator(s), do you believe in a static omnipotent force that holds everything together?  ..in part, where does your energy come from, or the energy force within your pencil?  If you believe that there is some major force holding us static and together (whats to keep our molecules from flying apart?) then just dig a little deeper..

*did you know, that this is the only planet that has organized religion??

tyrone

 

[cainam_nazier]

Tyrone-
"When I mentioned creation I really had to be delicate with it, as there was no beginning, there was just an alwaysness. Only the finite mind needs to cling to the idea that there was a beginning, but there was not. People will believe in infinity from now on, but they cannot accept to have allways been. "

I do not believe that we have always been here.(big bang)  And I do  not believe that man was created or has always been here.  (evolution)  But I believe in the possability that we, humans, have been aware considerably longer than what is generally known.  This being recent discoveries that have been made with in the last 5 years.  That keep finding things that date back long before what was orginally thought.


"So if you do not believe in a creator(s), do you believe in a static omnipotent force that holds everything together? ..in part, where does your energy come from, or the energy force within your pencil? If you believe that there is some major force holding us static and together (whats to keep our molecules from flying apart?) then just dig a little deeper.."


Simply life.  Life creates life in all forms.  I do not believe it was created but rather it just happened one day.  Some thing managed to crawl out of the primortal ooz.  Maybe we came to be because of a meteor hitting the earth bringing with it the first cells that became life on this planet.  Spontaneous combution of a sorts perhaps.  The growing and splitting of cells creates energy in a form and hence the energy that binds all life.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[steveb]

Greetings all,

   cainam_nazier wrote  ] [quote
Simply life. Life creates life in all forms. I do not believe it was created but rather it just happened one day. Some thing managed to crawl out of the primortal ooz. Maybe we came to be because of a meteor hitting the earth bringing with it the first cells that became life on this planet. Spontaneous combution of a sorts perhaps. The growing and splitting of cells creates energy in a form and hence the energy that binds all life.


 I used to prescribe to the Darwin way of things, but have since changed my way of thinking. The reason I changed my thinking, the "wasp plant'. Well, I think it's called a wasp plant. A few years ago I was watching a documentary on plants and they were talking about how different plants pollinate. They show a close up of the stemen ?(the centre of the flower) , then they show a picture of this wasp that is the only thing that can pollinate this flower. The stenem was a near exact replica of the actual wasp. So I'm looking at it and the what came first ?, chicken or egg conundrum came into play.
         Did the plant look at the wasp and change to suit,or did the wasp change for the plant?. Now darwins theory works inregards to things like Blind cave fish, there transparent, it's supposed that these fish were trapped in caves for a long time with no light and adapted to suit.
          I now hold a Darwinistic/Creationist at some point, view. People ask the question sometimes, if you were to die and allowed to ask one question to which the answer will be given,what would be the question. My question , "whats the deal with the wasp plant and the wasp". I've got an idea that when my time comes the question would be of little importance, but if it's not,  I hope i would be at the stage were I could comprehend the answer.  

Regads  steve



 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Hey Tyrone,
Before you enlist to enlighten our minds, could you please introduce yourself formally... What do you fo dor a living?  IN a nutshell, what are your beliefs?  Where are you from?  What ethnicity are you?  Call me crazy orold fashioned, but I like to know my teachers.

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

[PeacefulWarrior]

I also wanted to mention to David ("Cainam") that I think you are fooling yourself if you don't believe in a higher being.  I think if we look around at the organization of the earth, or even at our own physical bodies, and have in a basic understanding of the laws of thermodynamics, etc. one can logically assume that there is an organizer...

If one walks down a beach how long would he have to walk before stumbling upon a fine swiss watch?  Would a fine Swiss watch ever simply organize itself out of the sand with time?  I think not.  Not even in a million yeas, nor a billion years, nor a trillion years... How, then, do trillion cell organisms like us just appear from blue green algae?  

The second law of thermodynamics states that all things run down, in other words everything naturally becomes less organized with time.  Nature fights against evolution...even the most die hard darwinian will admit that nothing in evolutionary theory can explain this.  The more physicists and biologists delve into the questions of existence, they find that there must be some organizing force or energy.  Soon they might even come up with a revolutionary theory that involves....don't jump out of your seat!....GOD!  What a revelation!

fides quaerens intellectum

[cainam_nazier]

"If one walks down a beach how long would he have to walk before stumbling upon a fine swiss watch? Would a fine Swiss watch ever simply organize itself out of the sand with time? I think not. Not even in a million yeas, nor a billion years, nor a trillion years... How, then, do trillion cell organisms like us just appear from blue green algae? "

    No naturally something like that would need to be made.  However that which is alive and functioning does not need that complex of a creation.  You look around nature and everything seems to adapt for a perpose.  This is simply seem in all life.   There became an over abundance of some kind of fuel (food) or what ever and some thing starts to minipulate it and by doing so starts to change itself.  Evolution takes its course and a few thousand generations later you end up with some thing that is able to manipulate the fuel to a far greater extent than its predisessors.  


"The second law of thermodynamics states that all things run down, in other words everything naturally becomes less organized with time. Nature fights against evolution...even the most die hard darwinian will admit that nothing in evolutionary theory can explain this. "

    I believe this very simple to explain.  Every thing will eventually out live its usefullness.  This being as a form of life evolves to manipulate its food source eventually it becomes so good at it there becomes an over abundance of that life form.  Then some thing else sees it, or a by product of it as fuel and learns to manipulate it and grow.  The chain starts over.  Or even they become so heavily over populated that it simply comes to pass that there is no more fuel or food.  Unless that form of life learns to adapt if capable then it will die out, and hence become no more.  

    We as humans have probably severly out lived or usefullness but given our ability to adapt we have not perished and continue to thrive.  This being because we can and do evolve and continue to do so.  But unless we learn a better methode we too will eventually become much more over populated than we are.  We will end up chewing up ever last bit of the remaining natural resources and we will perish or be replaced by some thing else.  Evolution in full cycle.



David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[PeacefulWarrior]

I disagree wholeheartedly. In regards to the Swiss watch theory, if you want to say, and I quote, "...that which is alive and functioning does not need that complex of a creation" then I guess that I am not going to be able to persuade you.  How can you say that a living organism, a creation so complex that we still don't understand how it works nor how to create it, is easier to form than a watch then I think you are percieving reality in an entorely different way than myself.  We, as humans, along with all other living life forms, are MIRACLES!  Humans can procreate, but even in our most advanced labratories we cannot create life int he true sense of the word.  We cannot even come close to creating AI in computers.  


fides quaerens intellectum

[cainam_nazier]

Ahh, but how long did it take the human to figure out how to make a watch?  Or a computer?  It is only a matter of time.  Just because we can not do some thing now does not make it impossible.  Eventually we will evovle and we will be able to do this and then it will be common knowladge.  If you told some one 100 years ago that we could fly in space they would have thought you crazy.  And now it is done.  People used to think that if you went more than 25 MPH in a car you would turn into to liquid.  At that time they understood less.  And now wecan travel hundreds of miles per hour. We learn more of the human body every day.  That is why we can live the way we do now.  Medicine, surgery, vent machines, artificial hearts, prostetic limbs, the more we learn the closer we become to being able to create life not just sustain it.  We know enough about the nervis system that we can re-attach severed limbs but it was impossible 10 years ago.

But I can tell things are starting to get touchy so let me say this.  Yes it is possible that I am completely and totally wrong, but you must accept that it is possible that so are you, and that it is possible that WE are all wrong.  This all being the wonder of abstract thought.

Now let us step back and see what else Tyrone has in store for us.  Well Tyrone you wanted to stimulate thought and debate.  Well done.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[PeacefulWarrior]

Don't worry friend, things aren't getting touchy, I promise.  It takes a lot ot get me frustrated or angry, I can assure you that.  Anyway, I hear what you are saying.  If there's a believer in human potential it's me!  I believe man can do all things, there is no limit to our potential...but everything we do is through the power, knowledge and light of the Source, which is God.  We can become like God and that's the main reason we are here in this life.  I too believe in natural processes, but I believe that's the way God works.  I don't want to get into my theories of evolution, Adam and Eve, etc. but I do know that God lives, it's not faith, but knowledge.  

Like the line below, after faith comes knowledge...

fides quaerens intellectum

[cainam_nazier]

Like the line below, after faith comes knowledge...

fides quaerens intellectum


I was wondering what that ment.  I noticed too that a lot of people seem to know latin, or use latin quotes.  I never cared for the language myself.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Tyrone]

greetings!

I think I didn't stress one point enough which seems to be the missing link in this entire evolution theorytism.  That is that we are not our bodies.  We do not look like we do now, unless ofcourse you were  particulairly happy with this vissage and you choose it later..after.  How our bodies were created, and how WE were created is a bit different.  Only because our bodies are not made to last, if they were we would never want to leave and would never feel the need to procreate.  That is why our physiological shells will change from time to time, simply to aclimate to the changing atmosphere, I don't mean drastically but enough to stun you.  ie vikings, malaysians..
Those that conciously travel know this for a fact.  How happy are you with your body??  Honestly, you are saying that we have evolved for billions of years only to feel like poop when we wake up or look in the mirror?  

So where is this primortal ooze now?  How come there aren't little amobea crawling out now?  Or how about half apes/man walking around, or better yet, why if we came from apes do we still have apes?

Our body is a shell, somewhat inanimate, but its still the temple which houses your spark of the divine and should/must be respected and cared for.  It is nothing more then a vehicle in which we are able to negotiate around this slugish atmosphere.  We are almost renting it so that we may do what we came here to do.  That is nothing more then to experience our knowledge.  We have to learn through adversity, and we have to learn without our memory of back home.  What is knowledge without experience?  You can read all the books on neurological surgery, but until you held the scalpel or whatever, it really means very little.

So my big point, we wanted knowledge, well, we have to go down and learn and experience it. JUST like Adam and Eve who got kicked our of the garden of eden.    They bit into knowledge, signifying their wanting to learn, so they were put in school to gain the experience and the completion of their knowledge.  They lost theat blissful euphoria and life for them began.  So did we get kicked out of from where we were to come here, by our own choice, by biting into our own apple.  That story is nothing more then a parable.  You have to realize when Christ spoke he addressed an illiterate crowd so he had to use exapmles and analogies and stories to get the point accross.  

Its all about experience, and ofcourse you learn the most through the greatest adversety and hearache, thats why we are here (earth).  This is one of the toughest/darkest planets of them all.

cainam; I have a hard time following your points as you conflict with yourself.  You do not believe in the big bang, but you believe,  "..rather it just happened one day."??  Of course there was no silly big bang, there just always was, no one point of creation.  Its our finite minds, its not our fault.  I sence that where you have gathered(ing) your information you have exhausted that channel.  This causes you to feel quite elated on yourself, not in a negating way, it happens to all on the spiritual journey.  You find a small truth and rise up above everyone soaring high with ego under your wings.  ..but thats a false sensation and it will discipitate shortly if you do not realize.  As once before, I urge you to look further into yourself, for their you will find it.  

peaceful warrior;  You strike me as a person whos humilty runs quite deep.  Forgive me if I sounded like I was trying to enlighten 'your' minds, I mean only to show you where the door is, the journey is yours.  Surely my physiological overcoat is not that important.  I'm just some guy who is only happy when he is doing something spiritual.  To aid me, I have to admit I do have a great reciprocation from the other side, and I do listen but all the time.  If you want to meet, perhaps we can try the astral.

tyrone

~God is Love~


 

[cainam_nazier]

Actually I do believe in the Big Bang, the one that helped to create or did create our galaxy/solar system.  The forming of the sun or so forth.  But life on earth could have been several different things.

I do not believe we came directly from apes, but rather a primate type creature.  Hence still the existance of the normal ape.  But also if you look, for almost every animal there are several to thousands of different sub-species.  There not nessisarily one that is better or more evolved but evolved in a different way.  Humans are a prime example of this. We all have the same "basic"  structure, but you look at all the different regions where people are and you can see the difference in evolution give the location of primary growth.

David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Tyrone]

cainam; still you are reffering to the physiological vessel, but even still why do we not have more undeveloped beings?  Why no half breeds?  There are many people who are less evolved, or more then some, but there are never ever any refferences to any of these 'inbetweens'?  Either way, thats your view, and there is nothing wrong with that.  I'm not trying to change it or challenge you, I'm just trying to challenge your ideas.

.....
There needs to be a balance.  The emotion and intellect must be balanced in order for you to function properly.  The right and left side of the brain must both be used evenly.  Now in knowing how your mind works, you may be able to control it better.  This knowledge is more feasible to aid you, it is not complicated.

Your brain is a physiological organ.  Let us from now on, refer to the mind, as the Mind-Soul. [the Mind-Soul, Etheric Body, Atman, Over-Soul, etc. refer to the same thing]  The Mind-Soul fits like a cap over the brain... Always address it as the Guardianship of the Mind; I mean this over-capping effect.  

You do not reside in your body.  You reside outside your body in the Over-Soul.  You may think that you are inside.  There is a spark inside, yes.  But you, like a shadow figure, like a guide to the body that you are in, manipulate the body.  Let us refer to it as the Mind-Soul being the parasite, and the body being the host.  The brain regulates the Autonomic Nervous System, and usually keeps all the systems in the body in fairly good health.

What happens in illness?  You become so attached to the body, feeling it is the only home you will ever have, becoming overly self-concious (and I mean conscious of self), that a derangement does occur.  Let us go even farther and state that the Mind-Soul is the itellect that regulates you, and the emotion really resides in the body.  The body is geared towards emotion.  That does not mean that when you come over to the other side you do not have emotions, but not the emotions that are negative; the the emotions that can be bruised or sensitive to other people's emotions.  When you address the Gueardianship of the Mind, you keep that stabilized by knowing that it is there, and the map that leads you to that place.  It actually resides about three and one-half inches outside your cranium.  That is where your mind resides, giving signals to the brain continuously.  So we are talking about a physical organ with a metaphysical controller, which is you.

The Mind-Soul puts pressure upon the brain which creates the loss of weight (a little less than one ounce) when the body dies.  In illness, this continual communication between Mind-Soul and brain has been blocked or cut off.  Going back to the original premise, the body can only rely on its higher self, the Mind-Soul.  In that sense, we are talking about even a new level or dimension that coincides with the body.  If you continuasly think of yourself as being almost a guide to this physical mechanism, it will be easier for you to function.

tyrone

-whatever thou lovest, lovest thou.-



 

[cainam_nazier]

"When you address the Gueardianship of the Mind, you keep that stabilized by knowing that it is there, and the map that leads you to that place. It actually resides about three and one-half inches outside your cranium. That is where your mind resides, giving signals to the brain continuously. So we are talking about a physical organ with a metaphysical controller, which is you."


Now I find it really interesting that you mentioned this.  A couple of us are currently disscussing energy ceters that are located outside of the body. Topic "Chakras out side the body".  We in the thread have noticed that there seems to be a substancial amount of "personal" energy that is just outside the body.  I can't remember thier name right now but one of the individuals states that he can or is working on working with an energy center that is located roughly 4-6 inches above is head.  Now I have a little more difficulty locating specific energy ceters but am able to use the energies just out side the body.  The feeling for me has been that they are mine but that they just do not reside in the body.  This seems very similar to what you are saying and does for me give it some truth since I am already aware of the energy there.  
  so would you suggest trying to play with these energies or rather leave them be and just be aware of them?  I was thinking because of your post that if some one was able to more readily access these energies with particular attention to the one above the head, one could learn a great deal about ones self.  And possibly form a better connection.  Does that make sense?


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[PeacefulWarrior]

cainam-

Hey, I am glad you like the latin quote. I actually found that when I was studying the philosopher...man, I can't think of his name right now.  Well, anyway, I speak italian and because it is so closely related to latin I have come to love reading and studying latin, just as a hobby as I am FAR from being able to read it fluently.  I also think it just sounds cool and esoteric.

ANyway, in response to Tyrone- I think we are our bodies.  Just because our physical body is temporary doesn't make it any less ours or "us"...we have many bodies and it just happens to be the most low vibratory/"crude" body we have and it is of coure vitally important to us because it is the vehicle for our spirits in this physical world.  



fides quaerens intellectum