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Author Topic: Robert Bruce's Possession  (Read 17672 times)
missfixx
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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2004, 07:38:10 »

i agree with spectral dragon that possession occurs on the mental plane which i percieve as "above" the astral..the mental body is related to the will and the nervous system. from here the subconscious can be accessed:memories can be manipulated in order to create emotional responses and also fears can be stimulated. the nervous system can be infiltrated to control the physical body.
       maybe it does just come down to will verses will.cravings give power to a foreign will if you indulge them.in this way i think it is just a constant fight to try and figure how to express yourself and not somebody elses.it can be complicated by long term subconscious influences-what is your will, what is theirs?
        also there is a basic problem in any psychic invasion dynamic; resistance is food for aggressors.self love or any "psositivity" is empowering for any "evil" force."lifeforce" in resistance, healing or love can be yummy food AND so can terror and guilt. so although defending yourself is a good job in the sense that the universe always seems to pay another self defense check, it can also be eaten up instantly.this can fuel a long term codependency between host and leech.
        a smart "neg' has chosen to disconnect from their own lifeforce, anyone can reconnect if they want.but in a world so intensely psychicly violent, it seems scary to be connected to that lifeforce-youre just prey.
         i want to be connected to my "lifeforce'and to own my will.so far it is a daily struggle,
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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2004, 19:12:20 »

Hi Missfix

I just caught up with your posts and relate totally to your experiences and many of your conclusions.  People like us who know that these things feed on positive thoughts/emotions (including love) are in the rarity.  

I don't know what to tell you or how to help because I am dealing with a similar situation, but just wanted to tell you, we are not alone.  You sound amazingly logical considering what you are going through--the first reaction is to fall back on a belief system and many here are trying to integrate their beliefs with the contradictions they are experiencing.  It's a painful process.  It sounds as if you have started with a clearer slate.  Not that it helps the situation, but it helps with understanding.

I hope you keep posting and sharing even if others here can't help--your words open other people's eyes and make clear that the simple New Age mantras that have been going around the last ten years as gospel (we are all one, love is the most powerful force in the universe, it's our own minds creating this, etc) is no less a belief system than any other religion.  The only TRUTH is what is happening--and only the person experiencing it is qualified to analyze and explain it.  Some people are better at integrating their experiences than others, and you have a lot to offer in your sharing.  

It helps tremendously just to be believed.  That's about the only think I can offer anybody else going through this now--I believe you.
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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2004, 19:12:20 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Nita
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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2004, 19:38:25 »

Hello MissFixx
   Love and goodness are not food for negs. It gives them problems and will repulse them. Loving yourself and any positive emotions help to resist the negativity they try to push into you to open your access points so they can affect your life.
   Self-sacrifice for the better of his family was an enpowering emotion that should have helped to defeat any negative spirit. It plus the running water were the basis of being rid of the entity. It could not fight the love of someone for their family that was ready to sacrifice himself for them to overcome it.
   Everyone with negative entity problems hit a breaking point where they use their will and good emotions to overcome problems. It is different for different people.
      Nita
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vunderbal
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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2004, 21:41:59 »

oh and uh...remember that what you say is um, creative, so like, if csomebody posts a simple solution that might inspire confidence and hope or strengthen us, i would say dont bonk with that post, thanks and watch the communication beneath your post as in 'those who believe in the devil already belong to him'? see what i am saying?  does your post look for an answer or merely inspire fear? thats what i see here, i mean, what is your intention when you ask questions that you know cant necessarily be answered and cant necessarily be resolved...just talk about things that work and what has worked...thats what i think but you know i usually dont get into this kinda deal, im just trying to shake a crappy demon or something.
hahaa. Smiley you know? be creative, i think.
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Andromache
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2004, 11:47:29 »

Quote
It helps tremendously just to be believed. That's about the only think I can offer anybody else going through this now--I believe you.


It helps to be validated that you are a person. Validating helps people remember that they are part of the human and deserving of of the same respect and love that is deserved of all life here. Being human doesn't require a sufficient enough excuse to be qualified.

And I sacrificed myself while under attack considerably while under attack to protect my family, especially my one sibling...it didn't halt the attacks it increased them. I almost died, the constant self sacrifice depleted me of everything (you can sacrifice too much) that gave me strength. I didn't start getting better until I got help and someone else was picking up part of the load.

And if what you say to people has such profound importance and impact, whether positive or negative, why is it only true only to a person saying such things to self. Doesn't being and saying negative thing to other people have an impact on the person receiving it.
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2004, 11:47:29 »



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daem0n
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« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2004, 12:07:21 »

well, i offer my validity for all attacked
and this is not belief ...
emotions don't work
will does

Nita
positive emotions are used to empower will
like you said, different things for different people
edit: positive emotions refering to nita's post
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Andromache
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« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2004, 13:20:29 »

There are no positive or negative emotions it's what we do with them (the actions we take) that makes them positive or negative. We have the right to feel happiness if that is our will and we have the right to be angry as well. We can feel rage over an injustice and channel it into a more positive countermeasure. But wee nedd the freedom to feel to have the freedom to choose appropriately.

The minute you start making any emotion a crime you create an atmosphere for emotional dishonesty...who wants to be deemed as negative after all.

We need emotional honesty to know who we are, what are strengths and weakenss are, etc. Without it, we start to disconnect from ourselves, life and the Creator.
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daem0n
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2004, 13:39:31 »

i said don't work, nothing more, nothing less
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Andromache
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2004, 13:41:35 »

Yeah I think iw as agreeing with you ^_^
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daem0n
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2004, 14:04:12 »

well, whatever Wink
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Tyciol
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2004, 19:15:56 »

Those who believe in the devil already belong to him?

Whoever said this must then belong to the devil, and we can't trust their words Wink
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Nita
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2004, 20:19:28 »

Hello Everyone
   Some suggestions for everyone out there. The will of defending your family and love is stronger than any other power when it is used with a natural defense such as running water. You need to have will, belief, and faith in a positive resolution after exorcisms. Exorcisms will not work if the person does not work upon themselves and the mental habits and emotional abuse issues from possession. A person who does not work upon themselves and why they get possessed will go through multiple exorcisms until they overcome their personal issues.
   It does not mean they are bad people but it does mean they have to close off the access point within their emotional makeup. Access points are what allows negative energies to block you from the good.
   Magical access and permission is also a way where you get possessed. Robert in this instance gave magical permission for it to inhabit him so it would quit harming the boy. It was a brave courageous thing to do as was his decision to deal with it where he could not hurt anyone or anything. It shows Robert is quite a person. I have met him in person and can say that is very true of him.
   Now for the order of how you do things. You always shield first as it will help prevent things in the first place. You never give any permission to anyone to access you without stating the reason such as healing or protection. Most magicians are ethical but it pays to be careful.
   You never channel any force without stating it only has permission to access you once and may cause you no problems or harm. You specify what can be done to yourself.
   Any banishing should be followed by a blessing to bring good back into your life. You should have positive energies and results. It is not emotional bondage to not like ourselves when we are controlled by jealousy, rage or anger. It is a time to look at ourselves and really think if that is what we should allow ourself to act like to others.
   You should research your methods and work upon yourself and what you do not like about yourself. You should listen to others about your personality and think about what they say and how you should apply that knowledge. It really helps to keep yourself in emotional balance. You will not be susceptible to possession if you are in equilibrium. It takes years to accomplish this but is worth it. A simpler way is to do the core image methods and others mentioned in Robert's book Practical Psychic Self-defense.
   They all are things that should be done to help yourself. I also suggest some of the articles upon my website. I have helped many people over the years and tested everyone of them hundreds of times.
          Nita
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McArthur
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2004, 21:10:04 »

Quote from: Nita
Hello MissFixx
   Love and goodness are not food for negs. It gives them problems and will repulse them. Loving yourself and any positive emotions help to resist the negativity they try to push into you to open your access points so they can affect your life.
   

I agree with this, negs will often try to invoke self-hatred and lack of confidence in their victim because the opposite positive emotions make things difficult for them. What I have found with my own experiences is that when my heart chakra is fully functioning and buzzing, that this somehow repels negs (or makes it so they can not affect me). It is probably a combination of the fact that I get a feeling of 'connection' to the Divine/Higher Self through this chakra (although I know the main one is the Crown chakra) and I also feel 'balanced' because of it. It is like in martial arts where balance is very important. And in Kabballah and exercises such as the Middle Pillar Exercise the Sephira called Tiphareth is the place of balance and also associated with the heart chakra and where one makes initial contact with ones Holy Guardian Angel/Higher Self.

And I don't know about anyone else but when my heart chakra is buzzing I get very strong sensations of Love that are extremely close to ecstasy.  It is like it is a higher form of energy/vibration that the low-level vibration/energy of negs has no way of affecting or influencing, in a similar way that negs are stuck in Yesod/Astral and therefore are not able to access/affect higher spiritual realms/Tiphareth.

So what Negs do, I think, is to do what they can to bring one down to their level (or attempt to block ones access to higher levels to begin with) of vibration where they can then more easily influence one.

Perhaps the idea isn't exactly to stop neg attacks against oneself but to make it so that the attacks have no place to land or attach to and therefore have no effect anyway. What if this is some kind of barrier put up by the Higher spiritual realms so that no being with any negativity in them can get past the "negs" and therefore to "Heaven"? To get to "Heaven" and past the Negs one has to find Love and compassion and exorcise all forms of negativity from oneself that one is holding onto?
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Nita
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2004, 21:31:36 »

Hello MacArthur
   I have an article called energy configurations in cursed and hexed people that you might find interesting. It is on my website. A negs or curses purpose is to block our access to our higher self. Positive higher vibrations and the higher spiritual levels. Balance and the higher vibrations of positive emotions are all important.
   Positive emotions are a shield which helps to prevent the negs from having a place to land. I have never been possessed because I know what I am as a person and I shield all levels of myself. The more in balance you are the less effect they will have upon you.
   All negative emotions such as stress, worry, anxiety, anger, hatred and rage will cause your vibrations to lower. The things you wish upon others give access points for it to happen to you. I have been as guilty of all of these things as everyone else is in life.
   I know when I have been in battles or being cursed because I am blocking others from being harmed my peripheral things in life are always stressed. It includes things like being the one the bank makes the mistake in the account balance, being the one that gets the flat on the hill in the worse traffic spot, all the little things of life to get those rotten emotions going on so they unbalance you.
   It is how access points are created where a neg landing on them will put you right back in the negative moments of your life. The only way to make it so the negs can not use these access points is finding a method that removes them. Robert Bruce's core image removal technique is one of the most successful for this. I also have a Removing Negativity Prayer upon my website that has helped a lot of people. I get thanks all of the time from people who have used it.
   Nita
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McArthur
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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2004, 22:45:00 »

A great post and an excellent article Nita. I'll read more of them later. Right now I am feeling all aglow again as I feel the warmth in my heart chakra with no attack from this neg I have been fighting. It really is like a form of psychic sheild.

 What we are talking about reminded me of a quote from a Novel by Crowley. I'll quote the relevant part below:

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/moonchild/mc05.html
OF THE THING IN THE GARDEN; AND OF THE WAY OF THE TAO

(snip)

"I'm afraid I, too, like danger and excitement!" cried Lisa.

     "I'm afraid you do! However, since Brother Cyril asks it, the Way of the Tao shall be trodden so far as this is possible: What would Brother Cyril do?"

     "I should take the Magic Sword, make the appropriate symbols, and invoke the Names Divine appurtenant thereto: the Thing, shrivelled and blasted, would go back to those that sent it, screaming in agony, cursing at the gods, ready to turn even on its employers, that they might wail with it in torment."

     "One of the best numbers on the programme," said Simon Iff. "Now see the other way!"

     "Yes: if your way is better than that!" cried the girl, her eyes gleaming.

     "It isn't my way," said the mystic, with a sudden inflection of solemnity. His voice rose in a low monotonous chant as he quoted from "The Book of the Heart girt with the Serpent."

     "I, and Me, and Mine were sitting with lutes in [65] the market-place of the great city, the city of the violets and the roses.

     "The night fell, and the music of the lutes was stilled.

     "The tempest arose, and the music of the lutes was stilled.

     The hour passed, and the music of the lutes was stilled.

     "But Thou art Eternity and Space; Thou art Matter and Motion; and Thou art the Negation of all these things. For there is no symbol of Thee."

     The listeners were thrilled to the marrow of their bones. But the old man merely gathered a handful of dittany leaves from the chased golden box where they were kept, and led the way to the garden.

     It was very dark; nothing could be distinguished but the outlines of the shrubs and the line of the fence beyond.

     "Do you see the Thing?" said Iff.

     Lisa strained her eyes.

     "You mustn't look for anything very definite," said the mystic.

     "It seems as if the darkness were somehow different in that corner," said Lisa at last, pointing. "A sort of reddish tinge to the murk."

     "Oh dear me! if you will use words like 'murk'! I'm afraid you're all on Cyril's side! Look now! " And he put his hand on her head. With the other he offered her the dittany. "Chew one of these leaves!" he said.

     She took one of the silver-grey leaves, with its delicate snow-bloom, between her teeth.

     "I can see a sort of shapeless mass, dark-red," she said after a pause.

     "Now watch!" cried Iff. He took several steps into the garden, and raised his right hand. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!" [66] he proclaimed in such a voice as once shook Sinai.

     Then he threw the rest of the dittany in the direction of the Thing.

     "By all the powers of the Pentagram!" shouted Cyril Grey; "he's deliberately making a magical link between it and Lisa." He bit his lip, and cursed himself in silence; he knew he had been startled out of prudence.

     Simon Iff had not noticed the outburst. He quoted "The Book of the Law," "Be strong!" he cried. "Enjoy all things of sense and rapture! There is no god that shall deny thee for this!"

     The Thing became coherent. It contracted slightly. Lisa could now see that it was an animal of the wolf type, couchant. The body was as big as that of a small elephant. It became quite clearly visible. It was a dull fiery red. The head was turned toward her, and she was suddenly shocked to see that it had no eyes.

     The old man advanced towards it. He had abandoned his prophetic attitude. His whole gait expressed indifference -- no, forgetfulness. He was merely a quiet old gentleman taking an evening stroll.

     He walked right into the Thing. Suddenly, as it enveloped him, Lisa saw that a faint light was issuing from his body, a pale phosphorescence which kindled warmly as he went. She saw the edges of the Thing contract, as if they were sucked inwards. This proceeded, and the light became intense. About a burning ovoid core dawned and vibrated the flashing colours of the rainbow. The Thing disappeared completely; at the same moment the light went out. Simon Iff was once again merely an old gentleman taking an evening stroll.

     But she heard a soft voice, almost as faint as an echo; it murmured: "Love is the law, love under will."
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McArthur
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« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2004, 03:20:12 »

kaili, what are you doing right now to protect yourself from negs? The reason I keep asking you this (and you keep refusing to answer) is because I have found that negs will influence their victims into not doing anything by getting them to believe that nothing works. You seem to be saying that you believe nothing works for you, and I've been there, but this is exactly how negs work. It's not in their interest to let you or others know what hurts or affects them. And they go to great lengths to convince their victims that nothing works. I've noticed they are doing this with you in the way you say they laugh at various things you have tried. It's all psychological. Don't you see that they were mocking you to try and get you to beleive what they wanted you to? And it worked didn't it?

 You can again complain that I am lecturing you but what I am telling you is true. And if you continue to refuse to take advice from others (which is exactly what the negs want) then no-one can help you. Do you want help or not?

Quote

McArthur--you have been dealing with this problem which has gotten progressively worse for nearly seven years as far as I recall. Are you over it yet? No. Wink

No, it is an ongoing problem that has to be worked on. It seems to me that you are expecting some miracle cure for negs without having to do daily spiritual exercises. My neg trouble is easing precisely because I am now doing energy work, working on sheilding, and also accepting help from others. The thing with having the attention from negs is that one can't just get rid of them in one day and everything is then fine. One has to then do the sheilding and energy work daily and work on oneself spiritually in order to be able to reach and stay at a place where negs no longer have any effect. I am working on doing that, what are you doing?

I know exactly what you are doing. Nothing. And that is because your resident neg wants it that way. How do I know that? Because I've been through precisely the same manipulation. That's the thing about most negs, they use all the same tricks over and over. Oh sure they will try to get you to believe that your case is "special" or somehow "different" from everyone elses but that is them just feeding into your ego to help perpetuate their agenda and manipulation.

And the part above about positive emotions such as Love(heart chakra). You don't send them love because this means you are extending yourself to them, through which they then get into you. The energy is used as a shield and then one raises ones consciousness beyond where they have any affect. It's hard work yes, most people see spirituality as all love and light and easy work, but it's not. It's a lifetimes work. If attaining Enlightenment is so easy how come we're not all Buddhas by now?

Nita has a lot of experience and knowledge in this area and has spent years helping people with neg problems.  Why do you (or Circe) find it so difficult to accept that others may know more about how negs attack people than you do?
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LordoftheBunnies
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« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2004, 04:25:16 »

I think it needs to be communicated to those suffering from neg attacks that when it is said they need to work on balancing their elements, developing love as a shield, getting rid of emotional hooks, etc. is that we are not making a personal judgment on their spirituality or love for others.  

All of us have imperfections or emotional baggage that can be used against us.  Furthermore, being spiritual and loving does not necessarily mean we are adept at utilizing these things to shield ourselves from neg attacks.  Based on what I have seen thus far, it may very well be the case that negs tend to go after people who are MORE spiritual and balanced, more psychically attuned than the average person.  Not only does it provide them with more energy, but a means of manipulating an individuals talents or qualities to their own advantage and self-evolution. So to those suffering from neg attacks, the fact negs found emotional hooks or chinks in their psychic armor does not mean you were any more flawed than the rest of us.  Indeed, the very opposite might have been the case.

I can well understand why this would be perceived as a judgment though, considering as how in the past on here some fluff bunny miscreants have basically scoffed at the victims, taking up a "Well, you must just not be loving enough or had bad karma, thats why they got in" attitude, or worse yet, assuming that victims of neg attack must be either delusional or lying since according to their belief system, negs cannot possibly exist.  Interestingly enough, I notice that many of these types live a fairly comfortable existence in industrialized countries, and have not had to suffer from the same horrors as the victims.  They seem to think that sitting back from a distance and offering Mcdonalds crap spirituality new age advice is the same as sitting down and listening to someone, and sticking with them in their suffering through thick and thin.  However, I didn't see any of this attitude in Nita's posts.

Those who have suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, or have been raped or abused, need much help and understanding to get them through their pain and ordeal.  However, only the victim themselves can fully make amends with their pain and move on, others can only help so far.  So, as McArthur and Nita mentioned, daily personal effort is an absolute must.  Assistance from others can only help you so far.  It may take years, and there may be many ups and downs, and you will need people to be your friends and listen along the way, but there is a way out.
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Circe
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« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2004, 10:46:08 »

A person that claims to work more than anyone else, makes no effort to recognize that other people exist or acknowledge their experience, and a person who doesn't even acknowledge the efforts of others but takes the claim of all the effort herself is sounds like they are doing nothing but blaming the victim and exalting themselves.

There is nothing positive reinforcing or loving about statements like that.
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« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2004, 13:17:42 »

Quote from: McArthur

  And if you continue to refuse to take advice from others (which is exactly what the negs want) then no-one can help you. Do you want help or not?


Why would I want "help" from someone who is delusional into thinking that this is some kind of "spiritual test?  If you believe you are simply "being tested", that this experience will make you stronger, wiser, smarter, than you are justifying what they are doing.  You are falling into the trap of simpleton thinking.  A little boy thinking that Dadddy is just trying to make you a stronger man.  Who is Daddy, McArthur? God?

If you do a little research, you will find that bullies--whether they are in third grade, in a corporate setting, or a spouse, generally do what they are doing for one simple reason--because they can.  Asked by a psychologist, one wife beater said that after he did a lot of soul searching, he came up with the simple truth that he punched his wife because he could.  He got away with it.  Would he do it if the result would be public shame, loss of job and income, or jail time?  Nine times out of ten the answer is no.  

So, by your logic, why don't we all have a lawless society then, no cops, no jails, no rules--and let all the bullies, opportunists and sociopaths have their way.  Because, according to your logic, this would make us a better society, we would be working on our "shields" and our imaginary weapons, and toughen up.  

Why do you think civilized society has rules anyway?  To protect the weak, to keep order, to make sure that what people work for their entire lives does not go up in a flash by a criminal with a more creative, ruthless mind than you have.  Why do people get so angry at corruption?  Because it does not strengthen the victims of it, it only makes more powerful the criminals.  Oh, just let him take your life savings, McArthur--then you can learn how to be as creative in theft as he is.  Let a rapist take your young daughter or a murderer your son.  You will learn detachment, and hey--then no one can get to you, you will be tough as nails!

The truth that most would agree with is that, without some laws, some agreements among people about what is wrong and right, then society goes to hell.  Look at any third world country where thugs are in charge to see the hellish result.  

For some reason (religious brainwashing, usually), people like you think that the unseen world is exempt from this kind of accountability--that the chaos, abuse, pain and suffering they cause is somehow justified because it teaches you your weaknesses.  Well of course you have weaknesses!  You are a human being and you do have vulnerabilities.  And because of that, in a lawless society, might makes right.  If a man twice your size decides to level you and there is no one stopping him, he will level you.  And you can go out and build a brick wall around your house and never leave it, or buy a machine gun to protect yourself, or sit home and meditate on "what led you to be pummeled".  You would be wasting your time.  Life is simple, and it's laws of cause and affect apply to all, both the seen and the unseen world.  People are being victimized by bullies in the unseen world because they can, not because some "big Daddy" in the sky is allowing them to in order to make you stronger.  

Whenever I get into a discourse with you, Nita and others with this mindset, I feel like I am talking to children.  

Quote
I know exactly what you are doing. Nothing. And that is because your resident neg wants it that way.


You are one hundred percent wrong.  The reason that I am still alive right now is because I am a fighter.  I have a warrior spirit not a victim mentality.  I have been told that I am known for this--being able to escape when backed into a corner.  I am "wired" that way--but even if I was not, I would not fall into the trap of justifying criminal behavior.  

As long as you continue to believe that what is happening to you is just making you stronger, you will never be free.  The second you wake up and say to yourself, what is happening to victims of psychic warfare is wrong, is the second you begin to own your spirituality.  

I think the first constructive act those of us aware of this problem coud do is to stop calling the bullies "negs".  If instead, you imagined a man doing this to you by dropping a little acid in your coffee, or sending you micorwaves through your house all night long to "test the affect" on human consciousness, you might suddenly decide to do more than "work on yourself".   And then if you saw these same people, not negs, doing it to those you love, like your children, if you have any, it might change the way you view their actions.

This is not about you, McArthur.  It is happening to more people than you know and the sooner you wake up to the fact that this is not a test, you might change your attitude.  

I am not having a problem with "negs" as you describe.  I am dealing with an alien consciousness that has no morals, no spriituality.  They are a technologically sophisticated society without the heart, love and compassion of humanity.  And it is why we are moving forward, not them.

But in moving forward, we do have to unite and make agreements.  One of which I hope would be that psychic violence is not acceptable in any civilized society.
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« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2004, 19:03:58 »

Quote from: kaili


Why would I want "help" from someone who is delusional into thinking that this is some kind of "spiritual test?

 I am not claiming what we are going through is a "spiritual test". I suppose you may have got that impression from my philisophical thought earlier in this thread about negs and "heaven".  That's not about being tested but rather the idea that one may find oneself in the company of beings similar in nature and development to ones own. But regarding negs that attack humans it seems to me they somehow find ways to get into the "Real time zone" from the lower Astral and that even those highly evolved spiritually (or sometimes especially those) will come under attack.
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  If you believe you are simply "being tested", that this experience will make you stronger, wiser, smarter, than you are justifying what they are doing.

Like I said, I don't think it's a test. It's more like the laws of the jungle. If one enters a jungle then one had better know how to defend oneself from the wild animals. Either that or get eaten. And of course, there is going to be the occasional lion or tiger that wanders into a nearby human village looking for an easy meal.  But eventually of course those in the village will become wiser and smarter, learning through experience on how to keep the wild animals out. It is not because they are being tested but because it is something they obviously need to learn in order to protect themselves. Either that or get eaten.
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If you do a little research, you will find that bullies--whether they are in third grade, in a corporate setting, or a spouse, generally do what they are doing for one simple reason--because they can.  Asked by a psychologist, one wife beater said that after he did a lot of soul searching, he came up with the simple truth that he punched his wife because he could.  He got away with it.  Would he do it if the result would be public shame, loss of job and income, or jail time?  Nine times out of ten the answer is no.  

I don't understand what this has to do with negs. Are you wishing for some "Higher Power" to come and punish them?
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So, by your logic, why don't we all have a lawless society then, no cops, no jails, no rules--and let all the bullies, opportunists and sociopaths have their way.  Because, according to your logic, this would make us a better society, we would be working on our "shields" and our imaginary weapons, and toughen up.  

That's not what I am saying at all. The Astral already is lawless with no cops or rules as far as I can see. But the thing is that luckily it seems the nastier parts are confined to the lower areas and that the nicer parts don't need rules or cops because of the nature of the beings that inhabit it.  But unfortunately some of those lower astral types (human or otherwise) seem to be finding ways to affect humans on the physical. So, because there are no "Astral Cops", those being attacked by these creatures have two choices. Learn to shield and defend against them or get eaten. Sure, it's not fair we can be manipulated by them, at times life is like that. But complaining about the unfairness (who to?) of being food for predators isn't going to stop them, learning psychic self-defense will.
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Why do you think civilized society has rules anyway?  To protect the weak, to keep order, to make sure that what people work for their entire lives does not go up in a flash by a criminal with a more creative, ruthless mind than you have.

That sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the spiritual realms have something similar where those with criminal and ruthless minds are not able to enter those places with higher and more positive atmospheres. Would you agree with that if it means those in the higher spiritual realms are protected from the negatives and it keeps order?
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 Why do people get so angry at corruption?  Because it does not strengthen the victims of it, it only makes more powerful the criminals.

It seems the lower Astral might not be much different to here on the physical then eh?
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  Oh, just let him take your life savings, McArthur--then you can learn how to be as creative in theft as he is.  Let a rapist take your young daughter or a murderer your son.  You will learn detachment, and hey--then no one can get to you, you will be tough as nails!

Actually this is exactly what you are doing. An example: I know there are burglers in my neighborhood so I make all attempts to lock my doors and windows and add an alarm to the house to dissuade them from trying to steal from me (energy work and sheilding etc). You on the other hand seem to be leaving all doors and windows wide open with your valuables displayed openly in the window, no alarm, and a big sign on the house saying "Gone on holiday, back in 2 months" (no energy work or sheilding.)  Yes it would be nice not to have to worry about getting robbed and having to take precautions but unfortunately for people like us it is necessary to lock the doors and install a burgler alarm.

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The truth that most would agree with is that, without some laws, some agreements among people about what is wrong and right, then society goes to hell.  Look at any third world country where thugs are in charge to see the hellish result.  

You're not really expecting negs to follow your rules are you?
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For some reason (religious brainwashing, usually), people like you think that the unseen world is exempt from this kind of accountability--that the chaos, abuse, pain and suffering they cause is somehow justified because it teaches you your weaknesses.

You keep building all these straw men. I'm not saying it's justified or that it is there specifically to show us our weaknesses. But we would be foolish not to learn from the experiences anyway. It is a case of I am having to learn what my weaknesses are in order to counter any attacks through them.  And it seems that Robert Bruce is right when he says there are no "Astral Police" out there arresting perps. So rather than sitting around hoping for the cavalry I'm going to have to learn to defend myself rather than give up without a fight, taking a pill and hoping it will all just go away.
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 Well of course you have weaknesses!  You are a human being and you do have vulnerabilities.  And because of that, in a lawless society, might makes right.  If a man twice your size decides to level you and there is no one stopping him, he will level you.

If I lived in a lawless society I would be more inclined to arm myself and learn martial arts.
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  And you can go out and build a brick wall around your house and never leave it, or buy a machine gun to protect yourself, or sit home and meditate on "what led you to be pummeled".  You would be wasting your time.  Life is simple, and it's laws of cause and affect apply to all, both the seen and the unseen world.

To all? Even you? You're opening yourself up there to someone coming along and saying, "Well what might you have done to cause these attacks to happen?" I think this 'cause and effect' belief is a bit too simplistic.
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  People are being victimized by bullies in the unseen world because they can, not because some "big Daddy" in the sky is allowing them to in order to make you stronger.  

I totally agree.
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Whenever I get into a discourse with you, Nita and others with this mindset, I feel like I am talking to children.  

Another straw man.

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You are one hundred percent wrong.  The reason that I am still alive right now is because I am a fighter.  I have a warrior spirit not a victim mentality.  I have been told that I am known for this--being able to escape when backed into a corner.  I am "wired" that way--but even if I was not, I would not fall into the trap of justifying criminal behavior.  

So, er, what are you doing right now to protect yourself from negs?
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As long as you continue to believe that what is happening to you is just making you stronger, you will never be free.  The second you wake up and say to yourself, what is happening to victims of psychic warfare is wrong, is the second you begin to own your spirituality.  

Of course it is wrong, where have I said otherwise?
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I think the first constructive act those of us aware of this problem coud do is to stop calling the bullies "negs".  If instead, you imagined a man doing this to you by dropping a little acid in your coffee, or sending you micorwaves through your house all night long to "test the affect" on human consciousness, you might suddenly decide to do more than "work on yourself".   And then if you saw these same people, not negs, doing it to those you love, like your children, if you have any, it might change the way you view their actions.

Well you can believe that if you wish but I don't go in for all that neg-influenced disinformation.
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I am not having a problem with "negs" as you describe.  I am dealing with an alien consciousness that has no morals, no spriituality.  They are a technologically sophisticated society without the heart, love and compassion of humanity.  And it is why we are moving forward, not them.

Well, then of course if they're not the normal every day kind of neg and what you are experiencing is different to other neg attacks then I guess the psychic self-defenses against the normal kind of negs won't work in your case, right? Do you think there may be a possibilty (however slight) that this is something that "normal" negs would want people to believe?

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But in moving forward, we do have to unite and make agreements.  One of which I hope would be that psychic violence is not acceptable in any civilized society.

Of course it isn't, but who is going to stop them unless people like you and I learn (and use) psychic self-defense techniques?
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Tyciol
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« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2004, 16:38:11 »

Anyway, back to Robert Bruce being possessed, how do we know this won't happen again?
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« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2004, 01:02:18 »

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Like I said, I don't think it's a test. It's more like the laws of the jungle. If one enters a jungle then one had better know how to defend oneself from the wild animals.


I did not enter the jungle.  I did not even believe in "negs" how you desribe them.  They came to me.  Huge difference.

If a man stands outside looking up into the sky and begs a UFO to come so he can meet an alien, he sees one and it lands, and he willingly boards the craft, than he has entered the jungle.  If a woman wants to learn astral travel and tries to go OOB and succeeds, then she has entered the jungle.  With me, my awareness of these other worlds occurred because they came to me--not the other way around.  They started coming to me in the night and would not take no for an answer--I called guides, I sent them strong negative energy (mentally directed-"get out, I will not allow you to infringe on my free will"), I imagined astral weapons and used them, I got out of bed every time they came, I told them no--and none of that mattered.  In fact, I kept a journal of both my dreams and the activities.  In retrospect, what happened to me was clearly planned, a planned attack.  Since my methods weren't working I found Robert's book and tried a few things--the garlic, the running water, and I burned sage.  None of those things made any difference.

Finally, I called a women who claimed to be skilled in ridding people of these kinds of things.  She was a woman of faith and called on Arkangel Michael, the Christ, etc.  She told me to repeate certain phrases about cancelling all contracts in all dimensions of time and space, and many other thought provoking words and prayers.  I was impressed with her faith--she was empthatic that she knew what was going on and could help.  The non physical beings treated it all like a big joke.  

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I don't understand what this has to do with negs. Are you wishing for some "Higher Power" to come and punish them?


No.  This will obviously never happen.  What I want is for people to start believing each other, to share stories without the fear of being disbelieved or having someone throw "it's all your fault" back into their face.  If scientists and researchers got involved and treated possessions, ET's, other dimensional contact seriously, HUMANITY might be able to learn how to punish them.  Or at least, protect the innocent.  Not everyone is born to be a warrior, not everyone should have to be in order to live a life free of psychic violence.

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It seems the lower Astral might not be much different to here on the physical then eh?


As above, so below.  Which is why it is OUR responsibility to do something about the criminal activity in the same way we make agreements here.

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You on the other hand seem to be leaving all doors and windows wide open with your valuables displayed openly in the window, no alarm, and a big sign on the house saying "Gone on holiday, back in 2 months" (no energy work or sheilding.)


You are completely wrong, and why you keep repeating it, is typical of someone who never listens.  I want to be left alone--and I will put whatever defense necessary to achieve that, whether it means fighting or defending.  So don't say it again, McArthur--I have not said one thing in any of my posts for you to assume this lie.  Knock it off.

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It is a case of I am having to learn what my weaknesses are in order to counter any attacks through them.


What makes you think that it is a weakness within you that allows the attack?  This is typical brain washing.  Example--you can be a black belt karate expert, swordsman, ace with knives, etc, but if I show up with a machine gun, I will blow you to pieces.  Not that you were weak--I just have superior technology.  Think about that before you assume for the thousandth time, that these attacks are about your weaknesses.
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Tyciol
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« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2004, 19:09:14 »

Machine guns only work if you have the time and range. If you're grappling, a machine gun is very ineffective and the black belt will slaughter you.

So, they came to you, why? Are you sure it's real and just not nightmares? Why would they pick you, natural talent? Shield.
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« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2004, 22:45:23 »

Quote from: Tyciol
Machine guns only work if you have the time and range. If you're grappling, a machine gun is very ineffective and the black belt will slaughter you.

So, they came to you, why? Are you sure it's real and just not nightmares? Why would they pick you, natural talent? Shield.


Unfortunately the answers aren't allways this simple. What happens is the case has either a large store of energy to feed on or information that the neg wants. They are targeted for this purpose and thus they become layered in negativity and psychotronic devices.
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« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2004, 18:53:32 »

It's a difficult thing to believe, spirits sound like Schizophrenia to me. *is a tad into psychology*
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