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Author Topic: What's wrong with Psychic Self Defense?  (Read 29746 times)
Fuzziwig
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2004, 06:59:52 »

Hello everyone
Its good to see so many constructive inputs. My guide and I would like to comment on some of the previous posts.
Qoutes in blue, and
my guide Jopeha in maroon

SpectralDragon you say:
This is a channelling I am putting out with my Guide and guardian, a pheonix called Kereen.
"fear leads to fear, this is the problem with this place at this particular moment, nothing more, nothing less. It is entirely possible to be possessed by a neg or demon, but the chances of this happening are "slim to none," and at most only about 20 or so people should be possessed in the world. Other psychic problems caused by people practicing magic and other arts are a different story altogether.
As far as lesser negs go they are too weak for the strong human soul to conquer. You should not fear these entities. They are made simply to survive."

What you speak of Kereen, is an understanding of demons as being creatures that cause pain in the form of possession or by haunting ppl. These demons are not the beings that exists in the world, but spirits who wish to gain passage to their home. This home being the place you would call heaven or simply the higher levels of vibration, on which spirits can thrive and be happy. A spirit seldom attacks a person for the mere fun of it. There is a reason behind the attacks, and these are signs of wanting to be helped. A cry out for help that people ignore, because they see themselves frightened and misunderstanding. No blame is put on these people for acting that way, but it is worth noting that the reason for coming to the stage of understanding, is by experiencing the will of the spirit. Understand that it basically wants help, allthough in a sometimes akward way. The spirits at this level dont think that they are doing wrong, but they want to interact in ways with others to sort out their problem. Not to say that their ways are 'rightious' or particularly constructive, but as they dont see a way out of their mess, they tend to do what they can and not allways with the best outcome. A spirit wants out of its trouble, out of its problem and by gaining the help from others it might just happen. The help provided is done in various ways, but by attacking the spirit you only make matters worse. If not for you, then for the spirit whos gained even more problems to deal with and acts as a result on this, in the same unhelpfull way as described before.

Kereen:
"readers must keep in mind that any subtle thing you hear from a guide, especially the differences in statement, makes a difference.
I have stated something very close to what edi's guide has said. But the fact is that though some changes are necessary to avoid future people becoming confused, this has not happened on the scale that is suggested. There is no need to say things that demean a place of learning that has done much people good. Everyone should consider the people who have come here for help as people who are still learning and who are scared and try to find out if they are simply just scared or it they genuinely need help.
As stated before, actual demons are rare, but cases of humans attacking humans are increasing. I see through the eyes of this one that many like to label such things as what you call "thought forms," when a good amount of them simply cannot be."

Kareen, i see that you have expressed a will to speak about demeaning a learning place. I would agree with you that it isnt a good idea to tear down a place that holds great knowledge which can benifit individuals. However should the great knowledge be in a state that could be misleading, then it would be a good idea to add corrections towards the aim of correcting this great knowledge to not being misleading. As this correction takes place, bringing people to understand the realness of the misunderstanding, so that they may learn from these mistakes and move towards a better way.

Dark Knight you say:
Why all the focus on negativity? I think that depends on your definition of negative. Why no displays of positive? I guess that depends on your definition of positive too.
The focus you refer to is because the positive is often overlooked, as the feeling of negative can feel overwhelming and uncomfortable. The feeling makes the individual uncomfortable, and therefore the focus lies on removing this uncomfortable feeling. When this happens there is created a focus on the feeling, and this is the main reason it may seem overfocused. The positive is not to be overlooked. When i say this, i mean that the positive is important in the lives of beings as well as spirits passed on. When the positive has taken place in an individual, it can be hard to express it, because it feels so good and why mention something when its not a problem. Im not saying there is a need to express the positive, but merely pointing out the reasons for this lack of focus on the positive.

Why acknowledge it, why not “be positive” at any cost? Because there are no substitutions for emotions. Same way you can’t replace any emotion with alcohol or drugs or food or shopping, you can’t avoid fear by “be positive” at any cost attitude. It’s a block…looks, walks, quacks, is a duck.
I totally agree with you that we shouldnt be positive at all costs. I think that we can develop in ways though to become more positive. Sometimes through good times and sometimes through bad times.

Oh but then comes the problem…like I said, you can’t reach out to help others without acknowledging fear is there…or that we can be overwhelmed by something. And a good chunk of you don’t wanna hear it. Suffering or any insinuation of being overpowered should stay in a closet some place and any acknowledgement of fear’s existence is seen by you as a negative attitude. And those of you out there responsible for this mentality neither recognize nor take ownership for the blockage in energy you create. Energy flows where the focus goes, and when a block forms, focus is gonna go directly to that blockage…and on the a**hole to blame for trying to keep it in place. And that focus won’t leave until the blockage is removed, in fact if anything, it will intensify. And when you try to shift the blame off of yourselves by telling the angry person how negative and lacking in personal responsibility they are…
I dont think that its a good thing to keep any pain or suffering in the closet. Offcourse each thing in its time. Meaning that its an excellent idea to open up towards others and solve problems together. Others that are open towards what is said and where comfort can be found. Its by help and sharing of experience that helps the individual through these tough problems, memories of pain and suffering.

Do you really believe you have the right to block others to keep yourselves safe from moving through and confronting fear? Who really has the negative attitude here? The ones on this forum who keep claiming to have positive attitudes put all their focus and energy into ignoring the compassion and understanding that those suffering from attacks tried to give each other, but you put a lot of energy into trying to deny that a person can be overwhelmed to the point of breaking, bleeding, or dying…lord knows keeping your own hides safe took priority above all. Hey but there’s no negativity or fear on your part when you do that now, is there?
What i see is people trying to help each other, by sharing ideas, advice and experiences. I dont see any experiences being blocked by others (give me a qoute where you think it happens, if you can point it out, so we can learn from this too). Experiences are put here and people are free to comment on those, as it should be. I have given you response on some of the things you have previously written as i do now, to give you some input that you might find usefull. I do this in the interest of helping, trying to understand and yes learn something too.

As i write this post i see that taom1234 has posted on this thread. My guide and I are very pleased that the advice we gave in the previous post has helped your girlfriend taom1234. As you mentioned, the receptiveness and being open can help in making a turnaround for the better. Infact the help that was provided could never have worked without the individual being receptive and open towards being helped in this illness. By exposing this thoughtform to information, it could no longer serve the purpose of being a hinder for the person. Taom1234 i wish your girlfriend the best, and i hope that the advice by my guide and I combined with you and your girlfriends experience, can give recovery to others with similar illnesses too.

Light and Compassion
Fuzziwig


-Edited to correct a spelling error and refer to the advice
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2004, 08:32:25 »

I am not making this a habit! [}:)]

quote:
I dont see any experiences being blocked by others (give me a qoute where you think it happens, if you can point it out, so we can learn from this too).


quote:
I take it that you refer yourself as "bleeding to death", and if that is the case, im so sorry to hear that.


Who do you think I was referring to when I said that, Fuzzy?

Do I need to explain this in detail, are you that far behind? 3Ders have mastered this lesson to the point of overkill.
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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2004, 08:32:25 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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James S
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« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2004, 09:23:04 »

Ok, I've been biting my lip for long enough time to say something I've felt to say for a while. I’m tired of tiptoeing around certain peoples feelings so if I offend anyone here, well…get over it!

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
......If people reached out to one another, the way many of us who were suffering attacks tried to, showed compassion to one another, we’d all be safe even when overwhelmed. Suffering is not an opinion or theory, it is a situation with real life consequences that impacts every aspect of life…some of you refuse to even acknowledge that.

Do you really believe you have the right to block others to keep yourselves safe from moving through and confronting fear? Who really has the negative attitude here? The ones on this forum who keep claiming to have positive attitudes put all their focus and energy into ignoring the compassion and understanding that those suffering from attacks tried to give each other, but you put a lot of energy into trying to deny that a person can be overwhelmed to the point of breaking, bleeding, or dying…lord knows keeping your own hides safe took priority above all. Hey but there’s no negativity or fear on your part when you do that now, is there?  

Hey, you’re right, energy flows where the focus goes.



Ok Dark, you’ve said you’re leaving enough times now to make me believe that you’ll end up reading this anyway, so I doubt I’ll be saying this to thin air.

Exactly where do you come off making statements like this? If people reached out….the way many of us who were suffering attacks tried to…
How many people have reached out to help you in earnest and have ended up copping a stream of criticism from you? How many people on this site have tried to be friends with you only to end up verbally slapped across the face because they didn’t see things the way you wanted them to? You slammed the door on Mayatnik and Karek, why? Was it because they told you something you didn’t want to hear, or was it because he chose not to validate your current situation for you? So many people here have raised their voices to let you know that they wish you well, and what’s your reply? Comments like this one above, and others where yo respond to people like they're idiots. Well there’s gratitude for you!

So here you go again criticizing. What gives you the right to criticize anyone here?
Woe betide any of us who haven’t suffered the way you have, because clearly we know nothing at all! The members who have suffered from untold years of abuse as children, who have managed to make a good and happy life for themselves despite the fact their parents are STILL trying to abuse them. The people who have suffered from years of depression and have come within seconds of taking their own lives. People who have faced their fears, faced their challenges and come out on top, come away with a POSITIVE attitude, they obviously know nothing of what it’s really like to suffer! Well what a bugger free will is, especially if people choose to use that free will to make something positive of their lives in spite of their situations.

You have no right to judge anyone here on what level of compassion they might have for others! You have no idea of what these people might have been through, what they might have witnessed, yet you sit in condemnation of members of this site because, in my opinion, they have failed to help take your problems away from you. And you say people here have problems with denial? There’s an irony!

The number of times I have seen you attack others because you think they are doing harm to someone, or PM’d moderators to tell them to stop someone from attacking you….. THERE WERE NO ATTACKS! There was only your paranoia.

I am no psychiatrist. I do not have the answers to your problems, nor did I ever try to make you believe I did. The people of this forum are not psychiatrists either (well at least I don’t know of any here). It’s only out of their COMPASSION that they’ve tried to offer their opinions to you as a way of helping. So what if they don’t understand your situation. At least they’ve cared enough to offer an opinion THEY think might be helpful because its something that has worked for THEM.

Ok, that’s enough for now. Apologies to the other members for this outburst but I can take in only so much hypocracy. Oh, and before I get any accusations of not being the “love and light” spiritual person they though I should be, that’s someone I’ve never pretended to be.

On a lighter note, spirituality requires common sense and practicality. These are traits that I happily believe that Edi and his guide Perena seem to have plenty of.

Kind regards,
James.

P.S. Taome1234, thank you for this good news that you've brought to this topic. It's wonderful that you're girlfriend has done so well.
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Mick
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« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2004, 14:20:23 »

quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin


Hi All,
Each Being had a unique feeling to them, making it easy to read them and their intentions.  At no time were any of these my projections as I was there without concepts of my own, simply being what I am and seeing what is.   And so I have a little difficulty with some of what is portrayed here, as it makes no allowances for the existance and intentions of other beings in this Universe.
 

This is what struck me as being significant and I have made some similar comments re. this recently.
The focus looks to be directed totally inwards towards self with no respect or regard for the rest of the universe whatever it may contain. My view also is that both aspects need to be considered, in the case of self it is complex and given the chance will create an inner reality full of whatever but there will still be the outer reality with which there is likely to be a continuing interaction especially if ignored.
For me a raises question as to why some guides or whatever follow the single personal solution, those that I speak with do not but obviously in this context that is just another opinion. One thought is that in some circumstances this is the safest place for a novice to be and the guides or whatever feel this is the best guidance they can give under the circumstances especially if they are not in a position to manage the specific environs better.
On the other hand being conspiratorial it is an attempt to box up humans in their own space Smiley

 
quote:

The fear approach is one in which the experiencer will attempt to attack the Being that is seen to be 'negative' to them, or to run away and hide from it, or many other possibilities that are regularly read in this section.   Ultimately, there is only one truly effective


I do think that the fear aspect is overplayed, yes as you say it can result in actions that are maybe not ideal but in my opinion all emaotions create spaces which can be utilised by a whole range of denizens for a variety of reasons, it is all part of the flora and fauna. For someone dragged into this arena all aspects need tending to not just one aspect.

 
quote:

DO not allow anyone to disempower you by getting you to believe that this is not the case, for YOU are not a little soul in need of so much assistance and help from outsiders,  YOU are a Great Spirit in you own right, very capable of all that you chose to experience here.  IN fact, all that you NEED to do is to remember what you are and the way will be very clear.


Agreed. Humility is one thing, self denial of self is another and not I believe conducive to growth.
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Mick

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taom1234
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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2004, 16:26:54 »

Thank you James S and Fuzziwig[Smiley]  When we made the post we forgot to mention Edi and Perina who started this thread.  Thanks to you both. This forum has so many positives.  My donation will be comming soon. I hope enough people support this forum to keep it alive. There isn't another one around like this one.  As I read more threads I learn more and more and it gives me confidence in knowing that all of us have the knowledge within to break all the self imposed boudaries that we constantly impose upon ourselves.
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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2004, 16:26:54 »



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shedt
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2004, 00:06:28 »

quote:
Originally posted by James S

The people who have suffered from years of depression and have come within seconds of taking their own lives. People who have faced their fears, faced their challenges and come out on top, come away with a POSITIVE attitude, they obviously know nothing of what it’s really like to suffer!


for me, i used to be really depressed, sad, and even some times suicidal. But in the end, nothing, no neg, no random negative thought, could take away one thing from me;

Hope
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shedt
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2004, 00:11:04 »

quote:
Originally posted by taom1234

Thank you James S and Fuzziwig[Smiley].....As I read more threads I learn more and more and it gives me confidence in knowing that all of us have the knowledge within to break all the self imposed boudaries that we constantly impose upon ourselves.



yes this is great. I'm going to try and focus more on looking inside myself and fixing and problems that i have that way.
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2004, 10:24:55 »

Well, kereen wanted to say more but other members have pretty much hit the nail on the head already. I would like to add one thing though.

In my opinion, you cannot go judging other's without first trying to take a look at what they have been through and what they are going through. I see many examples in this thread alone. I know James hit on this a bit but I don't think he explained it enough.

In order to truly function as a help to other's you must be empathic to what they have gone through at least to a certain extent, those that are not like James and Dark Knight as an example tend to only make matters worse between themselves and tend to bring out much negativity. If you cannot feel an empathic response to someone then you probably cannot help them.

EDIT: I would also like to add that while I don't completely agree with edi and his guide on the matter that the only one who can harm you is yourself I do agree on this: some of the philosophy here needs to be changed.
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kiauma
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2004, 11:18:46 »

No SD, no philosophy here needs to change.

You have to realize how DK avoids her complicity in her own situation.

What she has been through does not free her from her own complicity.   For whatever reason she was originally 'attacked', Dk is denying her complicity in her own situation, when it is on display for everyone to see in every one of her posts.   That is the simple truth.

More than anything, she needs to forgive herself, and move through it.

I have empathy for DK, I am sorrowful with her in her pain - but I also can see the choices she makes.  I know I am powerless to help her if she cannot see her own negativity.

Yes, we have the choice to expend all our energy to help her avoid facing her own complicity, just as she has the choice to avoid facing her own complicity.

James may be guilty of expressing his view with some frustration and anger - which he freely owns up to - but his points still stand.   DK generates plenty of negativity.

Perhaps we are being cruel, it seems DK can not help herself.  I do not know what else to do.

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Sam
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« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2004, 13:56:21 »

quote:
Perhaps we are being cruel, it seems DK can not help herself. I do not know what else to do.


I've seen (and experienced) time and time again that people trying to force knowledge on someone who isn't ready or prepared to confront the knowledge simply end up alienating that someone.  That someone feels that they aren't wanted and end up leaving the company of the people who were trying to force their help upon the person.  The end result being of course that the person ends up not benifiting from any of the experience that the others may have to offer.

This issue some people have with dark knight is a personal one which needs to be worked through in order to reach an understanding of some sort.  Trying to force her to see your outlook won't work, and neither will her trying to force you.  The best solution is to try and work down to the real issue which is bothering people and be honest about feelings.  Instead of saying "dark knight is an insulting person" which is an attack on her and an insult to her (it doesn't matter if she said something provocative first or not), it's better to say "it makes me angry when you suggest that ...  why would you say such a thing?" which then puts the ball in her park and she gets a chance to explain herself.  Sorry to use you as an example DK but people here seem to be fanning the flames rather than resolving the situation.  I don't mean that people do it intentionally, but it happens nontheless.

Let me say this: I don't think DK leaving would be a good resolution to the situation because she has experienced many things which could be shared with others if needed, she is an asset, but unless this conflict can be totally and openly discussed (compromises need to be made by all parties) she's just gonna up and leave us.  Some of you might say yay wahoo ding dong the grump is gone no more negative energy to drag us down but I would thing damn she's probably not gonna fare so well without a supportive community that can help her face the darkness and come through it a stronger person.



To sum things up from my perspective, people are who they are, and nobody has the power to suddenly change them, and if people try then they find they push other people away rather than creating any change.  You can't force these things.  However just because people are different doesn't mean the differences can't be discussed openly in a way which will benifit all sides of the discussion.  Venting frustration leads to an imbalanced discussion because sure you feel better having done it, but the other person feels offended.  If on the other hand you leave someone with an avenue to respond to your criticism or comment it gives them a chance to express their feelings on the matter.  This applys to everyone here and sure you might be thinking "you're standing there on your big butt soapbox telling us all how to talk to each other, where do you get off" but it's just another opinion, but I think its an important one because there is a disturbing level of intolerance to other peoples views here and it seems to be hampering any real change in everyones understanding of each other.  

Maybe we're all too set in our ways.
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kiauma
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« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2004, 14:48:15 »

Sam,

Most of what you say is quite true.  Yes, many would not object to DK leaving this forum.  Yes, trying to force something on someone is usually a bad idea.  Yes, doing so often results in the terminal option for those who would most benefit from an exchange.  Yes, I agree DK could bring a lot to this forum.

The best solution is to try and work down to the real issue which is bothering people and be honest about feelings.

That is what I have been doing.

A person once asked a Tibetan Buddhist monk what he would do if a robber tried to rob him.  Would his philosophy of compassion interfere with him defending himself?  The monk replied, "I would compassionately smack him with my umbrella."

The difference that I see here, as I shall demonstrate shortly, is that DK posts out of selfishness, while I am 'smacking compassionately' against her stubborn notion that everyone else is to blame for her situation.

DK has already moved through her explanations, as have we.  The fundamental issue is here, as taken from James' post;

 
quote:
How many people have reached out to help you in earnest and have ended up copping a stream of criticism from you? How many people on this site have tried to be friends with you only to end up verbally slapped across the face because they didn’t see things the way you wanted them to?


In other words, DK is stuck.  DK does not see her complicity in her own situation.  In fact, DK seems to blame others for her situation - she projects her responsibility onto others.

Yes, I am involving myself here, but I am not responsible for DK's choices, no matter what you or she might say.  She is.  Even when she projects her power over herself onto me or anyone else, that is still her decision.  That is the fundamental issue which finds so much objection.

As far as 'Ding-dong, the witch is dead' I assure you that is all your own projection, at least as far as I'm concerned.  For my part, I have interacted with and made peace with far more negative people on the 'net than DK, of my own choice - just like here.

And as long as DK comes back here, fully knowing the circumstances, I shall do my part, being myself.

It's the least I can do.
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« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2004, 15:01:11 »

Guess I can't leave James out on that limb by himself *scoots next to him*
 
quote:
This issue some people have with dark knight is a personal one which needs to be worked through in order to reach an understanding of some sort. Trying to force her to see your outlook won't work, and neither will her trying to force you. The best solution is to try and work down to the real issue which is bothering people and be honest about feelings. Instead of saying "dark knight is an insulting person" which is an attack on her and an insult to her (it doesn't matter if she said something provocative first or not), it's better to say "it makes me angry when you suggest that ... why would you say such a thing?" which then puts the ball in her park and she gets a chance to explain herself. Sorry to use you as an example DK but people here seem to be fanning the flames rather than resolving the situation. I don't mean that people do it intentionally, but it happens nontheless.
I agree with what James said and how he said it.  James has spend time chatting with DK and had/has much empathy for her.  I don't think I have seen people force any outlook on her...SHE asked for help, heck she has asked for it over, over and over again. Why does she keep asking over and over?..eh, because she hasn't gotten the answer that suits her yet and my, doesn't if feel good to have all these people sympathic and giving their attention???

I have been honest with her on were I stand. (if you haven't noticed yet, I tend to be what some might call brutality honest..I don't believe in mincing words..tis a waste of time)  And for James to say she is a insulting person, was him BEING honest..I don't know what posts you have been reading..but she IS insulting, to a point that I can feel her anger, and get visions of this woman sitting in her chair, teeth bared, cussing and hitting the keys so hard, the board might be on its last leg.  I care if someone says something provacative first!  Well...every case is different but in this case, she needs to be called on her actions.  How do we not know that one of the problems is, people have coddled her way to much?  Which I can understand..she is scary when she gets going on one of those attack  of hers.  I have seen her subtly threaten people with a mystery attack...(I was a recipent of one of them) of course I reacted with a hardy laugh at it, so she does have some humor there, albeit dark..no pun intended..[Tongue]

My opinion..there is nothing anyone else can do for her.  I also think some are not helping by feeding the, dare I say....fantasy.

Ahhhh..something just popped into my head, perhaps these people whom are feeding the fantasy are getting somewhat of a pay off themselves?  I think one might feel pretty mighty if they could fix DK's problem.  For that to happen they must throw themselves head first into the problem that she feels she is experiencing, believe and except what she says to be fact. (because if they don't she will just shut them out)  This just could turn out to be a vicious cycle.  A never ending battle, because all egos are actually getting what they want...hmmmmmmm, very interesting indeed.

Nay.
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Sam
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« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2004, 15:34:46 »

Nothing wrong with honesty, especially when brutality is involved:)

I never set out to say any of your intentions in what you were saying weren't compassionate or well meaning, and it is a shame that DK seems (from what you say) to be unable to integrate your experience into hers and responds with frustration and anger.

Everyone builds up their personal view of the world from only what they experience plus their imagination which fills in the gaps.  The closer one person's experiences in life to anothers the better they can relate to one another.  It seems DK's had some pretty far out experiences which may have pushed her perception a long way from the average, and she most likely feels that nobody understands where she is at, hence the frustration when yet another person offers their helpful advice (probably also due to the amount of conflicting ideas in spirituality, its like being a kid in a sweet shop).  This by no means is meant to imply that we should let her live in a fantasy world where we pretend that everything she does is perfectly normal, because of course this is pointless and doesn't help anyone.  And its already been shown that "slapping her in the face" with your beliefs isn't really helping, because she isn't a mugger, she's a person who's unsure about the world and desperately seeks to understand herself and others, but no one is listening to her.  That's all made up by me but the fact of the matter is you think she's selfish and insulting, and she may perhaps behave in that way, but the reason behind it, the actual cause of the behavior, the situation she is in, is what needs to be understood and discussed to help reach a comfortable co-existence within the group.  You can't judge a person on behavior alone and simply "feeling" for someone isn't enough if you truly want to help them.  You have to understand them as well.  Like a mechanic understands a car.  You might have a "feeling" that the engine's busted but the mechanic knows its the third woogey donga from the left thats out of alignment.

Anyway I hope DK gets better and I'd rather not have any conflict with you fine people, who after all have done the best you possibly can (as we all do).
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kiauma
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« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2004, 16:04:36 »

Again you make some very good points Sam.  Again I feel I must explain myself.

It was never my intention to 'slap her in the face with my beliefs', or to imply that she was a mugger.  My point was a demonstration that compassion need not preclude action.

Rather, it was my hope to explain that by projecting her power onto others she was only disempowering herself, and that by showing her the mechanism of her own self-disempowerment she might find relief.

I believe the 'reason behind it' is that she wants to feel empowered, loved, and even valued.   That's an assumption I am willing to take responsibility for, but must my discernment of her actions which I see thwart these natural urges be labeled a judgement?  

No, I am sure I do not understand DK to the level you imply I should - but I do understand empowerment and responsibility.   What advice do you give, other than not to do what we are doing?

What would be your psychic defense Sam?  What would be your cure?
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Nay
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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2004, 16:14:49 »

Nothing wrong with honesty, especially when brutality is involved:)

Heheheheh..oops, I mean brutally..[Wink]  Perhaps I shouldn't have said brutally to start with, cause I really am a nice person and tend to get along with most people.  Some might find it brutal though...

Let me give an example, (not a true story..hehe)

Lady on the street wearing a hat with fruit on it, comes up to me and says, "how do you like my hat,do I look good"? In my opinion, no one should wear fruit on their head...I answer, "I don't care for it and it doesn't do a thing for you".  "Why?" she asks.  "Because you shouldn't wear fruit on your head, go make a salad".  She says hmmph...and stomps off....Now she asked didn't she? I was honest or was I brutally honest?  Should I have told her that she looked great, because she thought she looked great?

Guess I am off topic, but eh...I am wondering if maybe I should stop being so honest with my opinions....Naaaaaaaah...not gonna happen.[Cheesy]

Sam, it sounds like you might should have a go with DK..you might be able to break thru the wall...I just don't have the temperment for it I guess.

Nay
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2004, 22:31:56 »

Gee, you guys sure like to point fingers when somone is attacking, but it looks like you attack us who have not even done anything wrong without a problem or thought. I am not talking about DK either. You are attacking the rest of us who help DK. You guys say you are being empathic, but I am not seeing any empathy at all. It's true she has some inner demons to deal with, but you are not showing empathy towards how she might feel.

If EITHER side is to get anywhere we need to show some common sense and respect. I don't want to personally attack you guys but it is getting to the point where both sides are doing NOTHING but attacking the other. I am seeing no leeway on either side. Empathy requires attention to other's feelings.

Sorry for yelling at every single member in this thread, with the exception of Edi and Sam who have not tried to attack anyone here I am seeing a flaming war about to go on.
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shedt
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« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2004, 22:56:10 »

I'm confused. Who are they attacking ? I don't see anything specific.

What is a "attack" ?

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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2004, 23:16:20 »

quote:
Originally posted by shedt

I'm confused. Who are they attacking ? I don't see anything specific.

What is a "attack" ?



It's very subtle.....just trying to avoid it breaking out in the open [Wink]

By saying that Dark Knights problems are a "fantasy" they are saying that everyone who helped her and that Dark Knight herself are dillusional. I take personall offense to this and quite frankly was expecting better from moderators.
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Nay
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« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2004, 23:52:46 »

Hahahahahaha..dang SD, just say it for goodness sakes, I can handle it.[Cheesy]

If what I said makes you feel defensive, then perhaps I was more on the mark than I thought...eh?  

I am never subtle..HEHEHEHE..and it HAS broken out in the open, several posts ago..

And if you were under the delusion that us Mod's were more than mere human, you are mistaken...well..atleast I am a mere human, with human feelings, thoughts and opinions.  I am allowed my opinions just like everyone else on these wonderful forums.  It doesn't mean I am right, but just my opinion..

You say that you take personal offense to what I have said..yet you have not giving me any facts on why I am wrong....why is that?

Nay.
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James S
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« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2004, 00:32:38 »

Spectral,

Nobody is trying to start a flame war here, least of all the moderators. The trouble I see here is that when people start empathising, or more appropriately here, sympathising with someone to the point where they have to walk on egshells around them for fear of upsetting them, that's not doing anyone any favours at all! Keep going down that path and you end up with an "Emperor's new clothes" situation.

This is the point Nay is trying to put across. Sometimes you have to be honest, not accusational, not attacking, but honest. Holding up a mirror so the person can see what they've become.

You can "empathise" only so much with someone who is openly critical and hostile before you need to say "sit down, shut up and LISTEN." Such words often come from a position of love and genuine caring. NOT saying anything, NOT speaking honestly is more often a sign of being uncaring.

Regards,
James.



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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2004, 01:31:16 »

quote:
Originally posted by Nay

Hahahahahaha..dang SD, just say it for goodness sakes, I can handle it.[Cheesy]

If what I said makes you feel defensive, then perhaps I was more on the mark than I thought...eh?  

I am never subtle..HEHEHEHE..and it HAS broken out in the open, several posts ago..

And if you were under the delusion that us Mod's were more than mere human, you are mistaken...well..atleast I am a mere human, with human feelings, thoughts and opinions.  I am allowed my opinions just like everyone else on these wonderful forums.  It doesn't mean I am right, but just my opinion..

You say that you take personal offense to what I have said..yet you have not giving me any facts on why I am wrong....why is that?

Nay.



Nay and James, I know what it is to be a moderator of a site and an administrator. I know you are human.

From what I am seeing her posts are not that bad, I have looked at a lot and quite frankly I am sick of this new age behavior.

Nay, what you are saying does not make me feel defensive because I don't need to defend what I know is correct, but I do have to set the story straight because what you are doing is not being tactile, which causes me to believe you are simply attacking for the fun of it.

I think this should continue on the PM channels
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James S
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« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2004, 01:49:16 »

I dunno Spectral,

Perhaps we are better off speaking of this here. We all have enough common sense and consideration to stop this from turning into a personal mud-slinging match, and I do feel that what we're discussing here really does go to the core of Edi's topic.

I'm certainly not hanging on to any anger or resentment. What I speak of simply comes out of my experiences and perspectives

Kind regards,
James.
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2004, 01:54:51 »

quote:
Originally posted by James S

I dunno Spectral,

Perhaps we are better off speaking of this here. We all have enough common sense and consideration to stop this from turning into a personal mud-slinging match, and I do feel that what we're discussing here really does go to the core of Edi's topic.

I'm certainly not hanging on to any anger or resentment. What I speak of simply comes out of my experiences and perspectives

Kind regards,
James.



just trying to avoid spamming the thread. I am also talking from experience and perspective, and I also believe a problem is arising similair to what Tayasin was talking about. We could be talking about the same thing just in relative terms.
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kiauma
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« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2004, 01:59:16 »

I agree James, the discussion has turned to Dk's case because the same issues are at the very heart of the PSD debate.

SD, if you really want to 'straighten us out' you need to make a CASE, not merely make defensive accusations resting on the observation that we disagree with you as being reason enough we are in the wrong - and if you feel you don't need to 'defend what you know is correct' then I don't know why you are here.

Step up SD, and discuss this like the mature person you claim to be.
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Nay
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« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2004, 02:10:42 »

I think that as long as we can be adults and truly try and communicate, there is no need to take this to a private forum...I am sure people would like to hear what transforms.

 
quote:
Nay, what you are saying does not make me feel defensive because I don't need to defend what I know is correct, but I do have to set the story straight because what you are doing is not being tactile, which causes me to believe you are simply attacking for the fun of it.
not being tactile, meaning....I am not being able to touch or be felt?  I have been touched and feel strongly, not in the direction you would like, but strongly non the less

I will admit though, sometimes the verbal sword play is entertaining and I admire your sticking up for someone whom will not contribute, but leaves you to "pick up the pieces"

How does it make you feel that you are defending a cause, that has no cause?

*Darth Vador voice* come...to the dark side, SpectralDragon...come...[Tongue] sorry, once again, my humor knows no bounds...   How bout we shake hands, and call it a draw?  

Nay.....[Wink]

wow...didn't see those two posts from, James and kiauma...while I was posting...can you say..TYPE FASTER?Huh

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