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Author Topic: Fasting when you are under weight  (Read 6254 times)
Tom
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« on: July 05, 2002, 02:34:31 »

Two possibilities come to mind. The first is to gain weight and then do it. The second is to look into plans involving drinking juices (which have sugars, vitamins, and some minerals) while avoiding solid foods. Things like apple juice are digested without much difficulty beyond what drinking plain water involves. Medical supervision could help, too, so that if you begin to have trouble it will be detected early. As someone who also has trouble gaining weight, I understand the problem and do not like it either when people wish to have it.


 
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RandomName
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2002, 07:00:29 »

Howdy. Your right, some of us are green with envy. Im about 20 pounds overweight and I need to fix that. Fasting will definatly help trance because your hungry, but I reccomend you don't get attached to the effects on trance. For some reason, I can feel myself sliding into trance, then the slightest symptons appear, but the heavier sensations don't. Earlier today, i finally managed to induce vibrations on my own. A while back i had my appendix removed and had to go without food for 2 days so I wouldn't puke and bust my internal stitches. I accidently slid into trance out of boredom while watching TV in my hospital bed. It actually gave me the sensations of heavy trance that I wasn't able to feel before and it isn't ALL that impressive. Its fun of course smiley. I reccomend that you fill up on 3 meals for 2 days. Eat things such as peanut butter and hotdogs that will give you some possible vitamins like protein, but will also give you extra weight. Meat and any kind of weight gainer food(chocolate) along with a heavy meal should get you the basic weight you will need. You will burn off this weight over the 48 hour period that you test run fasting. I highly reccomend using the speedboat rope technique for trance induction. it keeps your mind busy and focused and it also starts vibrations. Use that technique sometime. It works REALLY well.

-Andrew(aka Psi)
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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2002, 07:00:29 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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kakkarot
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2002, 20:10:08 »

start slowly. the minister at the church i go to did a lesson on proper fasting, and the first thing he talked about was how you have to get your body to adapt to it over time (ie. don't try to fast for 30 days cause people say that you can). miss a meal one day. then after three or four days, miss another one. then the next week, miss two in a row. then a few days after that, miss another two meals in a row.

then continually miss more and more as time wears on. oh... and DRINK TONS OF WATER (NOT POP OR JUICE OR ANYTHING ELSE).

and if at anytime you feel like you need to eat or you will starve to death, eat. don't push your body and your body won't push back.  Smiley

~kakkarot

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Fenris
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2002, 09:56:16 »

Thanks guys, all very good advice to consider. I shall progress scientifically and avoide death as much as is possible! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

 Psi, to quote you

- "I highly reccomend using the speedboat rope technique for trance induction. it keeps your mind busy and focused and it also starts vibrations. Use that technique sometime. It works REALLY well."

Ok Ive experimented with elevators, free falling and scuba diving (btw if you have not tried this for real it is woth the expense, it is so peaceful, well except for drift diving...its kinda violent! ) but I have not heard of said speedboat rope technique. I would be most greatful if you could enlighten me.

Actually what gives me REALLY cool vibrations is a visualization where I fall through four elemental worlds, feeling the resistance of each type of element passing through me. Fire usually makes my physical body twitch and quiver, its neat. I will usually reach a nice trance state when I decend into a relm of spirit and blackness after going through the elements.

best regards

David

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jilola
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2002, 11:26:12 »

Just to point out from personal experience that while drinking water iis obviously necessary you can overdo it.
When drinking a lot of water make sure you get enough electrolytes to compensate.
Excessive dilutation on for exxample sodium in the body can be lethal. It screws up you metabolism and nervous functionality so listen to you body when going on a water fast.



Jouni

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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2002, 11:26:12 »



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Tom
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2002, 20:37:00 »

One thing I forgot to ask: Why fast at all, regardless of current weight and height?


 
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Mobius
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2002, 23:33:29 »

G,day Fenris

Unfortunately I'm in the same boat as you as far as weight goes. My metabolism is like a blast furnace & no fat seems to stick to me, damn. I know what it's like for people to say to you all the time, "Oh count yourself lucky", but at least they have the option of putting more weight on or losing it.

I went to a dietician & I was put on this program that bloats most people in a week, I went to the gym, at heaps of fat, bananas, milkshakes, junkfood & after 1 year of doing this I lost 2 kg.

I have never been able to weigh more than 75 kg or between 11-12 stone & I hate it, I'd just like to put on a few kilos for the winter like most animals do & then lose it in the summer when I don't need as much insulation, that would be nice. If I miss a couple of meals I will lose a kilo, so I just can't afford to.

The upside to my metabolism is, I rarely get sick, everyone around me gets colds & flus & I can drink from the same cup & I just don't get sick, maybe being a plumber had something to do with my immune system as well.

Sorry to get side tracked on me, now back to you Fenris. If you intend to go through with this method of dietary control for meditation & trance, have you checked out the OBE's through dietary control the "Minnie Keeler method" ?

Prescot Hall did some sessions with her & they came up with some pointers for dietary control for trance & OBE's, very interesting, you might find it useful.

If you havn't heard of it or want to know more, let me know.

Good journeys
Mobius


 
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Fenris
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2002, 05:00:31 »

Hi all

Tom
Why fast at all, regardless of current weight and height?

Well you often read about fasting for spiritual purposes and perhaps what inspired this was reading Robert talk about the preparation for Kundalini raising which included three days fasting (not that I aim to attempt Kundalini raising at this stage in life) so it obviously has an effect on energy. My assumption ( and assume makes an butt of u and me ) is that the energy normally used in digestion is  made available for other uses. And I know from personal experience that meditation or trance after a heavy meal is very hard to keep focused, so logically it should become easier if you are not digesting anything. So basically I would like to experiment with this.

Mobius

I just did a web search on the Minnie Keeler method and got no where, and I am interested so please do give me an overview if its not to much troble. While we are sharing our skinny stories when I was in primary school it was thought that I was negelected because I weighed 25kg for around four years straight, much to the distress of my mother!

thanks

David

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sahlyn
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2002, 06:15:47 »

Hi Fenris
It sounds asthough my weight situation is similar to that of your own (been skinny my whole life, cant seem to put on weight, currently about 54kg/175cm) All through school I received continuous derogatory remarks from my peers eg 'runt' 'skinny bastard' I dont know why the hell I hung out with those people.  ........getting sidetracked.......

Anyway, I just wanted to give you a quick pointer:
When you do eat, make a conscious effort to thoroughly chew your food. ie. dont swallow untill all the lumps have being masticated to a liquid form. eating in this way ensures your body gets much more nourishment from the food, unloads an enormous strain off your digestive system, and it's said that the amount you eat can literally be halved. (sometimes)
I got this info from the book "Ancient secret of the fountain of youth"
I've started eating like this.
It definately couldn't hurt. Give it a go if your not already doing so

peace http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

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'may we learn to be nothing, may we learn to be everything'
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distant bell
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2002, 10:54:26 »

Hi Fenris!

I would say that you perhaps should choose not to fast. I have never
done it, even though my reasons are not so strong as yours. I am pretty slim to and try to gain wight in the gym, andf I know that a fast would cost me alot of my muscles.. and I donīt feel like losing them.
I know that some people do fast- but I really donīt think itīs necesary.
Id you would decide to go through with it then ask yourselfe this-
What is the effect of fasting?
I guess that there are two effects.
1. Having a pretty emty stomage- no energy used for didgestion
2. hunger...

Well, number one- the emty stomage..
You can get around that on by only eating light foods- like fruit and juice,
basically foods with lots of vitamins and sugar...

and number two? - well.. that will be the though one for you if you donīt
whant to loose weight.


Frater Felix

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Mobius
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2002, 08:05:43 »

Hi Fenris

Mate don't get me started on the skinny stories...................... ok, you got me started. I was born with a skeletal disorder that makes my bottom ribs protrude further than the others, from primary school onwards I had constant jeers like "Are you an anorexic?" or " I've never seen someone as skinny as you" or "you should eat something", most of this came from people who weighed less than me, but because my bottom two ribs would protrude, it would look like I did have a "skinny" problem.

Ok, the Keeler method. If you want some info on it you can get it out of :
D.Scott Rogo "Leaving the body, a complete guide to astral projection", I got mine from the circle book store.

There is 3 components to the Keeler method & I will write down the recomendations for diet, but the other 2 components "Visualisation" & "Breathing & Relaxation" you probably allready are familiar with, so I wont include them.

DIET:
1) The student should begin by either fasting or by cutting down food intake.
2)No food of any sort should be eaten just before an OBE attempt. Overeating may bar any success at OBE travel.
3)No meat should be eaten during the training program
4)The diet should consist mainly of fruits & vegetables.
5)Carrots are extremely beneficial
6)Raw eggs are favourable to the diet & to OBE release.
7)No nuts of anykind are to be eaten.
8)Peanuts are especially bad (Not a nut, belongs to the pea family)
9)Liquids of all types are beneficial, but are not to be used in excess.

I have to stick to my seefood diet (Everything you see you eat, for those who don't know what a seefood diet is, hehe) & I have troubles sticking to that, my body has basically told me "Mate, I'm sorry, you will never see the other side of 75kg" & I'm over six foot too, which compounds the problem even more.

Good luck mate & keep us updated.

Mobius

 
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Fenris
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2002, 08:44:59 »

Hello nice people!

Well once again thank you all for your helpful advice, apart from gaining some good knowledge I have also become aware that there are many other skinny people here too!

Sahlyn-

This sounds very interesting and I am going to try this for sure. Im not sure if it would reduce the amount of food required but it would reduce the energy used in digestion freeing it for other uses, a little like fasting without the weight loss! Thanks

Hi Mobius, yeah aint the circle book shop grand! BTW to get a little side tracked which uni do you go to? I go to Griffith Logan campus. Anyways thanks for the diet info, it seems fruit and veg are the go.

I have had a big meal tonight and Im going to reduce my food intake a lot, but not totally eating enough fruit and vegtables to keep me from fading away. Ill try this for two days and see what happens! Thank you all for your imput!

best regards

David

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sahlyn
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2002, 13:23:24 »

Just another thing to mention relating to my last post that you may find of interest. That eating process, (chewing food thoroughly) is how monks always eat..... and who could question a monks eating habbits? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Something else regarding the subject of digestion is that the body can only digest one type of food at a time.
If you eat say bread(starch food) and meat(protein food) together, each one interferes with the digestion of the other. the end result is that neither the bread nor meat are fully digested, with much of the nutritional value been lost and transformed to waste. I personally am a vegetaria....well no, I must be honest, I do eat seafood every now and then. I guess I could say I'm a vegequarian.

Anyway, so my point; stick to one food type at a time. The simpler the better. Under normal circumstances, apart from keeping meat seperate from other foods, you needn't be too concerned about the combinations. But when fasting I recomend that you become quite fussy about it and only eat 1 type of food at each meal. eg. just vegetables, or just bread.

Egg yolks are extremely beneficial. Common hen eggs contain fully half of the elements required by the brain, nerves and organs of the body. The whites are utilized only by the muscles. And are better discarded unless the muscles have been excercised beforehand. It's recomended that you eat 1 egg yolk every day, for the rest of your life. (they say raw, but i nuke it for 12 seconds in the microwave)
So maybe at the serious stages of fasting it would still be worth eating at least an egg yolk a day as opposed to nothing at all.

Happy hungering (if that word exists) http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

oxxxx(:::::::::::::::::>
'may we learn to be nothing, may we learn to be everything'
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kakkarot
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2002, 18:36:57 »

distant bell: actually, fasting also has an effect on one's health. fasting actually cleans your body. i would guess that this happens because your body has no food to digest for energy, so it begins to burn off other things like fat and "unwanted" chemicals and whatnot. most people today don't fast because they put their faith in their medicines.

i don't fast (unless i miss a meal due to my schedule  Smiley  ), but i also only eat when i am hungry. this sometimes means that i wake up at two or three in the morning and start munching on cereal, or that i will miss a lunch or supper because i am not hungry. i usually eat near the regular times of the day, but it's not like i look at a clock and go "oh breakfast time, time to eat" or anything. and i am a very healthy person. but this is just my three cents  Tongue .

~kakkarot

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Mobius
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2002, 22:35:19 »

G,day Fenris

I go to QUT at Carseldeine & Gardens point, I wish I was going to Griffith as it's only a 10 min drive as opposed to 30 - 40 min drive. Oh well, it feels like hell now, but I know in 10 years time it will seem like it only lasted a week.

Good journeys

Mobius

 
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distant bell
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2002, 05:59:29 »

Hulo!

Well, loking at mobius list it seems like the thing to avoid eating under a "semi-fast" are any fat or otherwise heavy foods. I think this is good thinking- after all the metabolic process of the body uses loads of energy.

Kakkarot- Yeah, I have heard that fast has that effect to- I wounder one think thougt, what happens when you sit down and suddenly brun those ten years of old chemicals that have been loocked up in the body fat? Could this not be a bad shock for the body?

Sahlyn- well who could disagree with a monks eating habits LOL Wink

But well, it would be interesting to know WHY fasting helps for meditation..
If we know exactly why it would be alot easier to avoid the right things.

Fenris- So now how is you fast going?

funny thing.. ad a letter and fast turns into a feast!


Frater Felix

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Fenris
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2002, 01:13:12 »

Im actually starting today, I decided to do it later in the week because I work tonight and tomorrow night so my family will not notice Im not eating, I dont think they would understand. Ive done the 40hour famine before so I know what to expect, after the first day it isnt on your mind so much.

I plan to see how one days fasting effects meditation tonight after work, and tomorrow I will do a lot more playing around. But if I faint or anything (got a habbit of doin that) Ill give it a miss.

Sahlyn- Yeah I too think the monk joke was great!

Ok by Z by

David

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distant bell
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2002, 04:48:04 »

Meditating right after a meal dosnīt work for me, it is wery hard
with a full stomage. But I also have great problems meditating when
I feel hungry.

Dose the feeling of hunger wear of after a while when meditating?

Some years ago (6-7) I was anorectic.. I actually enjoyed the feeling
of hunger and going on an emrty stomage. I hardly eat anything.
Of course this was not good for the body. But what dose make
a person to be like this? Might there be some hidden reason for this? After al anorexia is like a wery loong fast. And it seems like the fast has wery good effects on the mind. Perhaps it stimulates the othere energys of the body/etheric body..

Fenris- Pleas tell us more about your feelings during the fast!
It would be interesting to hear how you percive it after a while.
If it is a good or a bad feeling.



Frater Felix

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kakkarot
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2002, 18:23:43 »

distant bell: "what happens when you sit down and suddenly brun those ten years of old chemicals that have been loocked up in the body fat? Could this not be a bad shock for the body?" yes, yes it could. that is why fasting takes time for the body to heal. it isn't like what you just described as you "suddenly burn thos ten years of old chemicals", it is letting your body heal itself. by forcing your body to burn off those chemicals (say, while meditating and focusing your energy on burning them out of your body), you have to maintain the focus of the meditation and the energy after the "burning" is done, and then you have to manually set your energy paths back to the way they should be.

i have destroyed the cold virus (and everything else) from my system once, and i won't do that again (have i said this before?). cause, even though i set my energy paths back to the way they should have been, my immune system also decided to relax (since it had nothing to do) and the next day i was so sick i almost couldn't even get out of bed to go to the bathroom. so, forcing things to happen isn't always the best way to do things.

~kakkarot

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Fenris
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2002, 00:36:15 »

Howdy doody everyone!

Ok things about my recent fasting experience for Distant Bell and all who are interested.

The hunger pains subsided after I had missed all of my normal meal times on the first day, the first few hours are the worst. During these first few hours you get constant cravings for all sorts of bizzar foods and you can almost taste them. I found this fast heaps easier than the time I did it for the 40 hour fammine. Being so aware of your bodily needs when your normally a head in the clouds person is very profound. I would recomend to anyone attempting to develope spirtually that they just go a day without food just to experience this.

I had a terrible nights sleep the first night and I had horrible leg cramps the whole night, I woke up about four hours earlier than I normally would. I dont feel it was due to the poor quality of sleep but rather that fact that my body had less processing to get done.

On the second day I had the deepest trance I have ever had, it was really neat, on my decent I without any though to do so experienced another verson of myself giving self affirmations of what to keep doing to avoide distraction. Like a guided meditation guided by me! But I was not seemingly in control of the voice. I also had the most vivid image visualisations I have ever had, by visualisations I dont mean just imagining I mean actually seeing the image like a TV screen in your mind. Energy body manipulatoin seemed to be somewhat easier. During all meditation and energy work I did not once even think about hunger.

There were however some other negative things for me. When I was a little younger I went through a stage in life where I did not eat NOTcause I felt I was overweight, but because I didnt feel I disearved to eat. Basically I punished myself for my percieved worthlessness by not eating. Although I have delt with all of these things and am much healthier now fasting provided the stimulas to remember how I used to feel in these times.

Fasting detoxes the body be giving time to remove substances without putting more in. I am doubtful that there are build ups of chemicals in the body fat or anywhere in the body that are released during fasting. This is done somewhat during sleep. My studies in Anatonmy and Physiology have never mentioned any such build ups, but more importantly they have shown me how perfectly the body maintains homeostasis. The human body is nearly perfect when it comes to keeping a constand chemical balance. The only chemicals that are stored are those that are needed or potentially needed. And even stored substances always have a purpose other than just being stroed. For example Calcium is stored in bones and provides structure, it is released into the extra cellular fluid to maintain a constant volume and is responsible for muscle contraction and nuron firing. The body is simply to perfect for such build ups of some chemicals (and what chemicals are they anyway) to occur.  

best regards

David

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kakkarot
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2002, 21:46:01 »

Congradulations with your experiment and experience, Fenris. thanks for the evaluation, too. i think i might try this someday just to see what i can see.

so, are you going to try a three day fast and see the effects on meditation after that?  Smiley

~kakkarot

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alpha
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2002, 13:02:16 »

I dont know about fasting.its not really a healthy thing to do in my eyes.The only reason why its easier to obe.Is because it takes alot of energy to digest food.Like RB mentions in his book.and it takes a good amount of energy to obe as well.

when you fast your body becomes  like a canibal who has nothing to eat but itself,The first thing to go is muscle.Your body will hold on to the fat as a last reserve.Because it will keep you alive longer than anything else.More calories in fat than anything.

An average person burns about 2200 or so calories a day.Im not really sure but its around there.Depends on your weight and level of activity also.So if you dont get that.Your body will take whatever it need from itself.

Ill skip a meal now and than but I try to do no more than that.Ive read alot about nutrition and I know this to be fact.But it is your decision.Not eating always leaves me in a weakened state. So these are my reasons.Maybe if I was raising my kundalini.Than that would be something worth fasting for.

If you want to get rid of toxins.Go for about a gallon of water a day.This is not that hard really.And stick with unprocessed foods.These are digested easier.Stay away from soda.Sugar is the devil,Its really useless.It will cause an insulin spike.Your body will store everything. A healthy well balanced diet.This will spare you all the energy you need.

Im not into this stuff right now at this moment.But its more because of a money thing.



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kakkarot
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2002, 21:11:22 »

actaully alpha, it eats the fat first. your muscles get tired for a few hours after skipping a meal because they have no energy to burn (i guess it takes a while for your body to switch to digesting the fat rather than the stuff in your stomach) and so are fatigued easily.

read my post on personalities and dark ki and you will see where i am coming from.
(http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=&whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=987  page 2, my post labelled "the experience")

~kakkarot

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alpha
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2002, 23:09:12 »

I dont really agree with you there.Heres where I get all my info from.
ABCBODYBUILDING.COM,And I have alot of experience as well.Diet is the most important thing in weight lifting.When you go on a cut(calorie deficient diet to lose fat) if you dont work out your muscles.While doing so you will lose alot of the muscle you gained.You will still actually lose a little even if you are working them.What you choose to eat will lessen this muscle burning effect.And increase the fat burning.

Its amazing we really do have total control of what the body does.By what we eat.We can have it burn fat for fuel.Or mostly carbs.And also proteins  as well as the main sources for fuel.You have to get use to eating alot of plain food though.You will not get cravings for sweets or any stuff of that nature.When you are doing stuff right.

I read most of your post.And you were doing martial arts.Kind of like a workout,.So Thats prob why  you burned mostly fat  instead of muscle.You were active and using your muscles.Thats  like sending a message to your body.Too hold onto that muscle as much as it can.Because you need it.That is a great site I posted and most members are against steroids.Check it out if you like.All the scientific research you need.

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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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Fenris
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2002, 05:25:03 »

Actually now the Queensland Ambulance has changed its fitness tests from having the running endurance type of fittness (aerobic?) to muscular strength tests I have two and a half years to build up. As soon as I finish my nursing degree Im applying to be a paramedic, so maybe I had better visit that site Alpha and stop flirting with fasting http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

best regards

David

Veni Vidi Vici
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