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Author Topic: Is nothing an option?  (Read 5822 times)
sheriff_rango
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« on: November 26, 2014, 14:00:41 »

When I was nominally an atheist the lack of an afterlife was a great source of comfort to me.

Is there still the choice to opt out of existence once and for all? I mean after death.

And no, I'm not suicidal...

Maybe its ego-driven:an unhealthy attachment to my physical being that, this life has to be the only one or something. Still eternal nothingness sounds rather wonderful.
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2014, 16:39:31 »

Keep looking  grin  I think the other option out there is much better than you realize. I hope your pleasantly surprised.
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2014, 16:39:31 »

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Xanth
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2014, 18:22:15 »

When I was nominally an atheist the lack of an afterlife was a great source of comfort to me.

Is there still the choice to opt out of existence once and for all? I mean after death.

And no, I'm not suicidal...

Maybe its ego-driven:an unhealthy attachment to my physical being that, this life has to be the only one or something. Still eternal nothingness sounds rather wonderful.
It could be argued that those who say that they DEFINITELY do not want to come back... have the most reason to come back.  Wink

You can experience eternal nothingness right now... meditate towards it. 
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dreamingod
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2014, 12:52:04 »

Is there still the choice to opt out of existence once and for all? I mean after death.

Consciousness, self awareness is life.
Existence exist.
Existence cannot be annihilated.
However (simulated) realities, bodies and stories can be annilated because the seeming "objective" reality exists in memory and present attention.
When the dream is replaced by subsequent present experiences, hiSTORY will fade away like a forgotten memory, an elusive myth one ceases to pay attention.

Choose what you pay attention to.
Choose your dreams.

 
Maybe its ego-driven:an unhealthy attachment to my physical being that, this life has to be the only one or something. Still eternal nothingness sounds rather wonderful.

You are no thing, incorporeal consciousness experiencing all that you dream.
To experience the state of no thing ness, that state of being no thing, you only need to relax, meditate,
focus your attention inwards and let go ...

You will find that while you can experience no thing ness, or the void, (rest),
most will return to the theme parks of sense-sational de-LIGHTs to role-play dreams.


Quote
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
- William Shakespeare
http://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/hamlet-to-be-or-not-to-be/

edit: changed subject line back to original flow for the thread ~Xanth
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 13:19:16 by Xanth » Logged

We are spirit, expressing what we will.
We act out perSONAs on our stage of iMAGEination.
We are both the dreamer & the dream.
I think therefore I am.
I am consciousness & potentiality
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 07:49:24 »

Here I have something for you from the Tao Te Ching.
(Yes I'm sorry, I always quote from this book because I don't see it as religion but I see it as "The Path" philosophically)
Taken from multiple paragraphs:

---

The Tao in its regular course does nothing (for the sake of
doing it), and so there is nothing which it does not do.

(Those who) possessed in the highest degree those attributes did
nothing (with a purpose), and had no need to do anything. (Those who)
possessed them in a lower degree were (always) doing, and had need to
be so doing.

The softest thing in the world dashes against and overcomes the
hardest; that which has no (substantial) existence enters where there
is no crevice. I know hereby what advantage belongs to doing nothing
(with a purpose).

He diminishes it and again diminishes it, till he arrives at doing
nothing (on purpose). Having arrived at this point of non-action,
there is nothing which he does not do.

Therefore a sage has said, 'I will do nothing (of purpose), and the
people will be transformed of themselves; I will be fond of keeping
still, and the people will of themselves become correct. I will take
no trouble about it, and the people will of themselves become rich; I
will manifest no ambition, and the people will of themselves attain to
the primitive simplicity.'

It is the way of Heaven not to strive, and yet it skilfully
overcomes; not to speak, and yet it is skilful in (obtaining a reply;
does not call, and yet men come to it of themselves. Its
demonstrations are quiet, and yet its plans are skilful and effective.
The meshes of the net of Heaven are large; far apart, but letting
nothing escape.

---

This is something that is part of the ultimate answer as to what we must do.
We must ultimately do nothing and from nothing we feel everything and are everything and everywhere.
Because everything comes from nothing.
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 07:49:24 »



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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2014, 08:58:27 »

Hehe, I like that.

The opposite of most people, at least.

I guess the virtue is if there were nothing, it couldn't be worse than here, if being here is a bad experience for you.

Maybe they will let you do nothing for a while... sort of like how at the airport they have those "prayer rooms" (what are they for... to pray you don't crash or something for good measure?); they can have a little bubble of nothing off to the side for you to nothing in for a while  wink
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2014, 19:55:04 »

Yes, you can "opt" out instead of reincarnating.
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sheriff_rango
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2014, 12:24:29 »

It could be argued that those who say that they DEFINITELY do not want to come back... have the most reason to come back.  Wink

You can experience eternal nothingness right now... meditate towards it. 

 But why come back at all? The world is a terrible place.

 People are either in pain, causing pain or both. We're constantly contributing indirectly to the suffering of others too. Not forgetting destroying the environment and the appalling treatment of animals.

 Why can't we just rest in peace?

 And what's so significant about planet Earth or the human experience anyway that multiple attempts need to be made at 'getting it right' down here when the absolute, eternal truths generally seem to be intangible and not connected solely to our physical shell? Unless we can reincarnate on other planets or dimensions...


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sheriff_rango
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2014, 12:27:38 »

Hehe, I like that.

The opposite of most people, at least.

I guess the virtue is if there were nothing, it couldn't be worse than here, if being here is a bad experience for you.

Maybe they will let you do nothing for a while... sort of like how at the airport they have those "prayer rooms" (what are they for... to pray you don't crash or something for good measure?); they can have a little bubble of nothing off to the side for you to nothing in for a while  wink

That sounds about right to me! Where do I sign up? grin

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sheriff_rango
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 12:42:18 »

Here I have something for you from the Tao Te Ching.
(Yes I'm sorry, I always quote from this book because I don't see it as religion but I see it as "The Path" philosophically)
---
long quote
---

This is something that is part of the ultimate answer as to what we must do.
We must ultimately do nothing and from nothing we feel everything and are everything and everywhere.
Because everything comes from nothing.



 That's partly what I'm getting at, that everything and nothing aren't dissimilar and that the only way you can truly be 'at one' with ... just, all of it, really is to move beyond 'consciousness' or 'awareness' as we know it presently into a less forced, more passive state and that that's maybe what we should strive for...

Lots of food for thought here. Will have to explore further. Thanks smiley


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sheriff_rango
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 12:44:04 »

Yes, you can "opt" out instead of reincarnating.

But can you opt out of 'being' full stop?
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 13:49:28 »

But can you opt out of 'being' full stop?

Dunno. I guess no matter what you do, though, your remaining matter will always exist.
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Xanth
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 15:57:58 »

But why come back at all? The world is a terrible place.
That's entirely a matter of perspective. 

I do agree that if you focused on nothing but the "terrible" parts of this reality and how some of us treat each other... it's a pretty terrible place.  No argument there.

But then, that's kind of missing the forest for the tress... because, there are a lot of really good people experiencing this reality right now and a lot of really beautiful things come out of this place.  Smiley  Focus on those.  You don't have to turn a blind eye to the bad stuff... it's obviously always going to be there in some amount (sometimes it seems more than others), just focus more on the good.

Take this forum as a very small example of something good coming out of this "terrible" world.  Smiley
Then take YOURSELF as a very big example of something good coming out of this "terrible" world.  Smiley

Quote
Why can't we just rest in peace?
Because then YOU aren't becoming a better, higher quality consciousness.

Quote
And what's so significant about planet Earth or the human experience anyway that multiple attempts need to be made at 'getting it right' down here when the absolute, eternal truths generally seem to be intangible and not connected solely to our physical shell? Unless we can reincarnate on other planets or dimensions...
What makes this place so great to grow as a spiritual being?

It's really simple actually:  Because you can make choices and have to live with those choices.  You can interact with other people (other consciousnesses) here with Love.  You CAN choose to do that.  Smiley
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 16:01:08 by Xanth » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 16:32:15 »

But why come back at all? The world is a terrible place.

 

No pain, no gain! Believe it or not we all have created this reality and had chosen before entering what to experience according to our spiritual growth needs. And we have limited our access to the higher planes on purpose, so that the school environment is in full capacity for more effective learning. It may seem like we are not learning anything, but believe me, every experience good or bad adds to our knowledge. I am positive that once you experience the broader multiverse, you will change your mind and comprehend the bigger picture of existence.
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Kzaal
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2014, 19:16:12 »

If the world would spread as much Love as all the hatred we experienced the world would balance itself.
It's this problem that we are facing everyday, we try to spread the love but people don't understand it and keep spreading hatred.
The only way to keep it going is to keep spreading love until someone realize it. Even if 10 person keep spreading hate, you gotta have loving thoughts for them too.
Let me put it this way... If Hatred didn't exist, we wouldn't know what Love is.
Theses people that hate everyday teach us about the total opposite side of hate which is love.
You hate it when someone hate? that means that you wouldn't want it to happen and it means that you would prefer Love instead, which is good.
Sure there's bad stuff happening everywhere around the world but if you focus on only sharing love then eventually someone is going to join you too. And another one, and another... Until that there's thousands of people that would never let hatred control their lives.
To opt out would only means that hate will keep spreading. It's not about who wins... There's never a winner in this it's always in balance.
Even if we spread Love forever, Hate will be there forever too. This is just how the universe works. They both need each other even if it sounds weird.

And even if you "opt" out, people will replace you and keep it balanced.
Even if you believe that there's more hate than love, it's not true, the only thing that makes you think like that is the media sharing more bad news than good news. If there would be a media where it shows all the good deeds and the bad deeds you would see that it balance itself out.
Media are not good for the simple fact that they don't share everything with statistics, they only show somewhat important bad news while there's thousands of heroes everyday that risk their lives to share their love of life and other people around them.

Don't let your attention focus on only the bad sides. That's how you become statistically erroneous.
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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2014, 00:11:50 »

It's really simple actually:  Because you can make choices and have to live with those choices.  You can interact with other people (other consciousnesses) here with Love.  You CAN choose to do that.  Smiley

Those decisions aren't limited to Earth.
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Xanth
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 03:30:54 »

Those decisions aren't limited to Earth.
Your quite correct.
Any reality which sets rules and limitations would provide this same "learning opportunity".  Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 05:17:34 »

Quote
Your quite correct.
Any reality which sets rules and limitations would provide this same "learning opportunity".  Smiley

I've always been curious about those other physical systems with radically different rule sets Thomas Campbell is always talking about.

Maybe one of these days I will visit the 1-dimensional world, and experience life in the line plane. I wonder what challenges the line-landers face... they can go forwards, or they can go backwards... maybe they get frustrated when there is someone further up on the line than they are, but they aren't moving fast enough... and they have to learn to live gracefully on the line, and respect the pace of those in front of them. Maybe the line-landers even consider the segments in front and behind them their family, because they are the only other segments they ever get to see, and go through mourning when those segments pass out of existence finally.
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2014, 07:11:16 »


Is there still the choice to opt out of existence once and for all? I mean after death.


Yes.
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Xanth
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2014, 16:07:48 »

I've always been curious about those other physical systems with radically different rule sets Thomas Campbell is always talking about.

Maybe one of these days I will visit the 1-dimensional world, and experience life in the line plane. I wonder what challenges the line-landers face... they can go forwards, or they can go backwards... maybe they get frustrated when there is someone further up on the line than they are, but they aren't moving fast enough... and they have to learn to live gracefully on the line, and respect the pace of those in front of them. Maybe the line-landers even consider the segments in front and behind them their family, because they are the only other segments they ever get to see, and go through mourning when those segments pass out of existence finally.
Ah, to experience as a .... line.  LoL  Smiley
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sheriff_rango
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2014, 01:26:21 »


I do agree that if you focused on nothing but the "terrible" parts of this reality and how some of us treat each other... it's a pretty terrible place.  No argument there.

But then, that's kind of missing the forest for the tress... because, there are a lot of really good people experiencing this reality right now and a lot of really beautiful things come out of this place.  Smiley  Focus on those.  You don't have to turn a blind eye to the bad stuff... it's obviously always going to be there in some amount (sometimes it seems more than others), just focus more on the good.

Take this forum as a very small example of something good coming out of this "terrible" world.  Smiley
Then take YOURSELF as a very big example of something good coming out of this "terrible" world.  Smiley


I get what you are saying and do agree that that's the best and healthiest way to go about things. However my making peace with the world doesn't alleviate anyone elses suffering, does it? I actually consider it a luxury and a privilege to be able to even contemplate the misfortunes of others. Nothing I go through can ever really compare with the pain so many people carry inside and there's nothing I can do to remedy it either. It's that helplessness, that impotence that I'm grappling with right now, I guess. sad







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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2014, 02:43:29 »

I get what you are saying and do agree that that's the best and healthiest way to go about things. However my making peace with the world doesn't alleviate anyone elses suffering, does it? I actually consider it a luxury and a privilege to be able to even contemplate the misfortunes of others. Nothing I go through can ever really compare with the pain so many people carry inside and there's nothing I can do to remedy it either.
No, it doesn't reduce anyone else's suffering, because it's not supposed to. 
YOU can't help other people grow.  You just can't.  You can, perhaps, point someone in a direction and guide them... but ultimately, they have to decide to go that path.

So how do you help the world?
When YOU become a better person, then the quality of *consciousness* (ie: the system) becomes just THAT much better.

Quote
It's that helplessness, that impotence that I'm grappling with right now, I guess. sad
It's simply not your job.  It's nobody's job.  Accept that. 
If you truly want to help people (and when I say people, I mean CONSCIOUSNESS), then just learn to Love.
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2014, 04:27:27 »

No, it doesn't reduce anyone else's suffering, because it's not supposed to. 
YOU can't help other people grow.  You just can't.  You can, perhaps, point someone in a direction and guide them... but ultimately, they have to decide to go that path.

So how do you help the world?
When YOU become a better person, then the quality of *consciousness* (ie: the system) becomes just THAT much better.
It's simply not your job.  It's nobody's job.  Accept that. 
If you truly want to help people (and when I say people, I mean CONSCIOUSNESS), then just learn to Love.

Xanth is right, even tho you would point someone to in the right direction, the decision is still ultimately theirs to follow.
You can help people by boosting them spiritually by giving love but if they don't want to go the direction you pointed, they won't.
When on the path to wisdom, you will learn that sometimes doing nothing (letting that person live their own experiences) is better than telling them what to do.
If you're not there and for them, they will learn it by themselves. Even if someone teaches you how to fish, it doesn't mean that it's the right technique, if that person decides on it's own to start fishing, he'll have a much greater appreciation of himself if he catch a fish or more.
Everything is always in balance, if you do nothing. That person might have the will to do something for himself.
All you have to do is give Love to them and hope for the best.
Of course, if that person is on the right path and ask you for wisdom advice, then feel free to do so! Nothing is better than having someone open-minded and taking all your advices.
Think about it this way, if you were not there for that person, that person would have to find a way to learn it anyway.
When I know it's out of my control, I just let the universe take over.
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2014, 11:16:36 »

A clever fisherman doesn't need the boat to go to the middle of the lake.
He knows the food the fish eat are at the edges.

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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2015, 20:00:35 »

You can always send people love, healing energies, but it has to be their choice to accept that love and use those
energies. As mentioned before, we can't force people to grow, all we can do is provide them with what they need if
they want to grow. Many people are subconsciously locked in the wounds of past lives, and they have to decide on
a conscious and subconscious level to free themselves from this. If they are ready then you can help them, if they
are not then you cannot help them, no matter what you do or try.

For example, my father had terrible past lives where he got confronted with dark magik and occultism, and this fear
and dread of the spirit energies has lodged so deep into him, that even his higher self refused healing in this life. His
conscious mind wanted to accept the healing, but we could not give healing because his higher self outright refused.
It took years for him to observe the benefits of the healing to those around him, for his higher self to finally accept.

Our higher self is in possession of all memories and knowledge of the Universe, yet the wounds in my father's spirit
ran so deep that even his higher self could not get itself to accept the healing. This shows that our past affects all
parts of us, to the very core of our higher self.
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