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Author Topic: Reincarnation theories. What to make of them.  (Read 706 times)
serge
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« on: August 26, 2017, 11:06:29 »

This is a follow up thread to my previous one regarding the survival of individual personality after death. My thoughts had been triggered by Donald Tyson's  (Soul Flight) statement that he did not believe that individual personality survived death. This of course clashed with what I had believed all my life. My understanding was that the evidence of survival after death was the process of reincarnation which suggests that if we are to have many lives on the physical plane we do indeed survive transition. Reincarnation , one believed,  could be demonstrated thanks to testimonies of subjects under regressive hypnosis among others things. All this went by the window when I read Frank Demarko's book called the Cosmic Internet. Demarko's book is written in the tradition of Jane Roberts' Seth Speaks (minus the cumbersome theater). That is the author channels entities in the NP which he calls the Guys upstairs (and stays away from naming them). For Demarko (if I understood well), we only live one single physical life. In other words we do not reincarnate. We are born to the physical plane through a convergence of physical heredity  (genes)and  non physical heredity (character, memories). The latter includes memories and more generally learnings from  the past lives....of someone you may think is YOU but it is not. To the "Guys upstairs" your passage in the physical is one shot only, a sort of a boot camp. And then at transition you go back home which I take is where our higher self (the spirit) resides. I found Demarko's statement extraordinary and interesting. I wonder if  more experienced members on this forum could shed some light on Demarko's tack? smiley
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baro-san
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 00:51:19 »

This is a follow up thread to my previous one regarding the survival of individual personality after death. My thoughts had been triggered by Donald Tyson's  (Soul Flight) statement that he did not believe that individual personality survived death. This of course clashed with what I had believed all my life. My understanding was that the evidence of survival after death was the process of reincarnation which suggests that if we are to have many lives on the physical plane we do indeed survive transition. Reincarnation , one believed,  could be demonstrated thanks to testimonies of subjects under regressive hypnosis among others things. All this went by the window when I read Frank Demarco's book called the Cosmic Internet. Demarco's book is written in the tradition of Jane Roberts' Seth Speaks (minus the cumbersome theater). That is the author channels entities in the NP which he calls the Guys upstairs (and stays away from naming them). For Demarko (if I understood well), we only live one single physical life. In other words we do not reincarnate. We are born to the physical plane through a convergence of physical heredity  (genes)and  non physical heredity (character, memories). The latter includes memories and more generally learnings from  the past lives....of someone you may think is YOU but it is not. To the "Guys upstairs" your passage in the physical is one shot only, a sort of a boot camp. And then at transition you go back home which I take is where our higher self (the spirit) resides. I found Demarco's statement extraordinary and interesting. I wonder if  more experienced members on this forum could shed some light on Demarco's tack? smiley

I browsed on youtube a few of DeMarco's interviews. I didn't get the same impression as you about his view of reincarnation. This one is one of the more thought provoking. (Frank DeMarco on the Role of Suffering as Seen from the Other Side)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 00:53:19 by baro-san » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 00:51:19 »

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serge
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 09:16:42 »

I browsed on youtube a few of DeMarco's interviews. I didn't get the same impression as you about his view of reincarnation. This one is one of the more thought provoking. (Frank DeMarco on the Role of Suffering as Seen from the Other Side)

Thanks Baro-san for your thoughts. My comment was referring to DeMarko's Cosmic Internet which is the only sample I know of his thinking. In this book DeMarko channels NP entities who are clear and adamant: we  as individuals are born  and die only once. This is a step that we take as individual spirits.
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baro-san
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2017, 21:08:09 »

On a second reading of your original post, I think that I understood better what you meant.

During my experiences with regression, past lives and life-between-lives, I felt that when I died it was like waking up from a dream. Each time I had the feeling of moving away, up, at relatively high velocity, and after a short while starting to mentally feel waking up to another me. I had exactly the same impression as when I wake up from an obe / lucid dream.

I believe that for our Higher Selves, our physical lives are as our dreams are for us as humans. So, I'd agree that our human individuality doesn't survive, but at the same time it isn't lost. Our perspective of our Earthly companions (relatives and friends) changes. We discover that we belong to other groups of souls we are close to in the Afterlife, and we don't miss our Earthly connections which appear to us as dream connections, where the "true" relationships were distorted by the dream scenarios.

The memories of past lives humans have are possible through our minds, because our minds aren't in our physical bodies. Our past lives influence who we are in the non-physical, and consequently who we are now in the physical, and what is happening to us here.

Regarding "time", from whatever past life you ascend after death, during regressions, you always ascend to the same Afterlife now. It isn't like you ascended from a past life to a past moment of your Afterlife, you ascend into the same Afterlife now.

These were my direct experiences and perceptions.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 21:17:04 by baro-san » Logged

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serge
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 10:45:39 »

On a second reading of your original post, I think that I understood better what you meant.

During my experiences with regression, past lives and life-between-lives, I felt that when I died it was like waking up from a dream. Each time I had the feeling of moving away, up, at relatively high velocity, and after a short while starting to mentally feel waking up to another me. I had exactly the same impression as when I wake up from an obe / lucid dream.

I believe that for our Higher Selves, our physical lives are as our dreams are for us as humans. So, I'd agree that our human individuality doesn't survive, but at the same time it isn't lost. Our perspective of our Earthly companions (relatives and friends) changes. We discover that we belong to other groups of souls we are close to in the Afterlife, and we don't miss our Earthly connections which appear to us as dream connections, where the "true" relationships were distorted by the dream scenarios.

The memories of past lives humans have are possible through our minds, because our minds aren't in our physical bodies. Our past lives influence who we are in the non-physical, and consequently who we are now in the physical, and what is happening to us here.

Regarding "time", from whatever past life you ascend after death, during regressions, you always ascend to the same Afterlife now. It isn't like you ascended from a past life to a past moment of your Afterlife, you ascend into the same Afterlife now.

These were my direct experiences and perceptions.

Thanks again for sharing your experience. I can relate to the way you are looking at reincarnation. It is great for me to be able to read from people like you who seem to have a deeper experience and wisdom on  these fundamental questions smiley
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 10:45:39 »



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ForrestDean
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 19:57:55 »

Hi serge,

First, there is no such thing as "death".  It is nothing more than a human concept, a perception of an event that all experience when the physical body is no longer viable due to age or some sort of physical trauma.  But we do not die.  There is no death.  We continue living as we always have, just from a different perspective of reality where we continue learning and developing as we continue our journey within and throughout Universe and continuously shifting from one body to another through higher and higher vibratory levels of the Universe.  The physical body is a vehicle very much like an automobile, except that our physical body has 5 commonly known physical senses that we use to experience this particular reality.  I'll say it another way.  The physical body is nothing more than a physical interface we use so that we can experience this reality.  When we turn off our car and exit the vehicle we do not say we just died.  The very same thing can be said about the physical body.  When we have left our physical body and moved on we are still very much alive.  Therefore there is no "afterlife".  There is only life.

Second, "time" does not exist except only as a concept as it relates to how we experience this physical reality.  Time is not a constant and has no basis in fact.  Time is literally an illusion.  We perceive time because it perceivably takes "time" for events to occur, objects to move from point a to b, the hands of a clock to move, it takes time to be born, grow old, and "die", etc.  But these are purely perceptions, and nothing more.  Universe is truly infinite with infinite potential realities all existing at this very moment.  The reason we experience time is because we continuously shift through these infinite realities in a linear fashion in the same way that a movie reel moves through a projector.  We just seamlessly move from one frame of reality to the next to the next to the next.  But they all exist right here, right Now.  I like to think of Universe with it's infinite realities as a huge library.  All the books in the library already exist, so I do not see them as existing in a past or a future.  I can pick any book off the shelf I wish to read/experience, but when I finish reading the book it still exists right here right Now with all the other books in the library.

Therefore, given that "time" does not exist, reincarnation can not exist as it is commonly understood with an individual being born then growing old and then "dies" to move on to the so-called "afterlife" where it reflects on the life it lived only to be reborn again into another physical life to hopefully learn from what the so-called "previous life" did not.  However, your Higher Self does have countless incarnations spread across the Universe throughout different timelines as it relates to the so-called "time" we experience within this perceivably linear existence within this physical plane of reality.  But all incarnations all exist at once, each independent from one another.  I believe these so-called "past life regressions" could be just the life of one incarnation of the Higher Self bleeding over to another incarnation, but only for very specific reasons and only as intended purposefully by the Higher Self.  There's a very good reason most cannot remember the life of one or all of our other personalities/incarnations.  That could very likely cause severe mental trauma to the incarnation you embody at your present awareness.  Also, becoming aware of our other incarnations could very likely hinder or alter the path we are meant to be on with this incarnation.  It is also possible you could have one or more incarnations of your Higher Self living right here somewhere on Earth at this very moment in "time" learning different life lessons.  So you could have several you's running around within the same instance of reality.  cool
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serge
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 02:44:42 »

Hi serge,

First, there is no such thing as "death".  It is nothing more than a human concept, a perception of an event that all experience when the physical body is no longer viable due to age or some sort of physical trauma.  But we do not die.  There is no death.  We continue living as we always have, just from a different perspective of reality where we continue learning and developing as we continue our journey within and throughout Universe and continuously shifting from one body to another through higher and higher vibratory levels of the Universe.  The physical body is a vehicle very much like an automobile, except that our physical body has 5 commonly known physical senses that we use to experience this particular reality.  I'll say it another way.  The physical body is nothing more than a physical interface we use so that we can experience this reality.  When we turn off our car and exit the vehicle we do not say we just died.  The very same thing can be said about the physical body.  When we have left our physical body and moved on we are still very much alive.  Therefore there is no "afterlife".  There is only life.

Second, "time" does not exist except only as a concept as it relates to how we experience this physical reality.  Time is not a constant and has no basis in fact.  Time is literally an illusion.  We perceive time because it perceivably takes "time" for events to occur, objects to move from point a to b, the hands of a clock to move, it takes time to be born, grow old, and "die", etc.  But these are purely perceptions, and nothing more.  Universe is truly infinite with infinite potential realities all existing at this very moment.  The reason we experience time is because we continuously shift through these infinite realities in a linear fashion in the same way that a movie reel moves through a projector.  We just seamlessly move from one frame of reality to the next to the next to the next.  But they all exist right here, right Now.  I like to think of Universe with it's infinite realities as a huge library.  All the books in the library already exist, so I do not see them as existing in a past or a future.  I can pick any book off the shelf I wish to read/experience, but when I finish reading the book it still exists right here right Now with all the other books in the library.

Therefore, given that "time" does not exist, reincarnation can not exist as it is commonly understood with an individual being born then growing old and then "dies" to move on to the so-called "afterlife" where it reflects on the life it lived only to be reborn again into another physical life to hopefully learn from what the so-called "previous life" did not.  However, your Higher Self does have countless incarnations spread across the Universe throughout different timelines as it relates to the so-called "time" we experience within this perceivably linear existence within this physical plane of reality.  But all incarnations all exist at once, each independent from one another.  I believe these so-called "past life regressions" could be just the life of one incarnation of the Higher Self bleeding over to another incarnation, but only for very specific reasons and only as intended purposefully by the Higher Self.  There's a very good reason most cannot remember the life of one or all of our other personalities/incarnations.  That could very likely cause severe mental trauma to the incarnation you embody at your present awareness.  Also, becoming aware of our other incarnations could very likely hinder or alter the path we are meant to be on with this incarnation.  It is also possible you could have one or more incarnations of your Higher Self living right here somewhere on Earth at this very moment in "time" learning different life lessons.  So you could have several you's running around within the same instance of reality.  cool
smiley

Thanks Forrestdean for this remarkable exposé. I admire how you presented a considerably complex question in a way that laymen such as myself could relate to it. I understand indeed that death can be an illusion or just a change in our level of consciousness. The no-time framework is something I find more difficult to conceptualise. I don't reject it however. One single event in my long life offered me a hands on experience that would lend credibility to the notion of simultaneous lives. Years ago in broad day light, 10 am on a Saturday morning the figure of  a man appeared in the mirror of my bathroom. This man was a copy of myself, same height, same eyes, but with the body of a Neanderthal man. The event did not last more than 15 seconds but I never forgot it. Decades later, reading about the no- time concept and possible simultaneity of lives shed a new light to the event.  
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 02:48:13 by serge » Logged
baro-san
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 01:10:33 »

I just finished reading Frank Demarco's "Muddy Tracks", his first "nonfiction" book. I really enjoyed it. In this book I discovered several little things I experienced myself, which on one side validated once more some of my experiences, on the other side gave more credibility to the author's experiences.
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serge
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 03:01:39 »

I just finished reading Frank Demarco's "Muddy Tracks", his first "nonfiction" book. I really enjoyed it. In this book I discovered several little things I experienced myself, which on one side validated once more some of my experiences, on the other side gave more credibility to the author's experiences.

Could you give us a flavour of the «little things» so that we could be tempted to read this book too. Thanks smiley
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baro-san
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 05:59:12 »

Could you give us a flavour of the «little things» so that we could be tempted to read this book too. Thanks smiley

 smiley I don't know if the things that resonated with me would resonate with others. One of the most striking for me was how the author described regression experiences, when you become aware of information that nobody told you, without visualizing anything, you just know it suddenly. I also found very informative the detailed descriptions of how the author experienced 3 courses he attended at The Monroe Institute. I found there some states I experienced too. Overall I found the book interesting and sincere.
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 10:55:08 »

This whole thing is riddled with questions and doubts.  It certainly is not a straight forward linear answer...live...no die...continue same as before.

Firstly the regressions are imaginative creations that may or may not be influenced by therapists bad wordings or suggestions.  Our subconscious is highly suggestible and literal.  There are no filters there.  And we are connected to super conscious ...so all manner of flotsam and jetsam of all stuff ...ours, everyone's...therapists projections and wishful thinking, prodding..... it's an area to be careful of...danger lies in suggestions made by therapists inadvertently and accidentally may be taken up by subconscious literally and actuated into real life's cause problems down the line with health and life...because of the absence of protective filters.  You can't just ask superconscious for last life...you have to virtually drag it out with questions...each question devoid of prodding  or suggestion...carefully worded.  It isn't an easy process and mostly we get nothing.  Until this century you wouldn't know where you were...what year...you didn't read or write....no news...etc.  And nothing much happened either.  Not to forget that there are many having concuncerent incarnations which heavily complicates things.

It is definitely not a good idea to take seriously any explanation or belief expressed by anyone.  That's mistake one.  After that you have pegged your expectations and all further insight or learning is limited by it. 

On the other hand it might also be a darn good thing...since it stops the search having satisfied curiosity.....and leaves you free to concentrate on this life. 

I would say that during this life knowledge of our other adventures is curtailed for reasons....and knowledge of our transition process is also limited for reasons.  But after we leave here...exploring past lives is encouraged and available. 


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