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Author Topic: Anyone familar with Buddism?  (Read 7165 times)
Gemeni76
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« on: August 03, 2014, 20:39:19 »

Hi!
I have read around a bit and got some different views on Bhavacakra, Wheel of Life:

The root to all Karma will apparently come from, Lust/desire, Aggression/hatred or stupidity
(Bird, Snake, Pig). The first of these can not be controller or outgrow in a single incarnation. Is this true or is it all three or none?

Thanks!
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rainbow_light
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 22:34:26 »

I take it you're referring to the 3 Poisons/Afflictions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_poisons_(Buddhism).

“The first of these can not be [the?] controller or outgrow[n] in a single incarnation. Is this true or is it all three or none? ”

I'm not sure what you mean by “controller”. Could you go into detail on what you mean by that?

I'll take your questions to be:
  • (1) Can lust/desire be outgrown in a single lifetime?
  • (2) Can all 3 poisons be outgrown in a single lifetime?
  • (3) Can none of the 3 poisons be outgrown in a single lifetime?

1. It can for some people, but not for others. E.g. “There is the case of the person who — regardless of whether he does or doesn't get to see the Tathagata, regardless of whether he does or doesn't get to hear the Dhamma & Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagatha — will not alight on the lawfulness, the rightness of skillful mental qualities. There is the case of the person who — regardless of whether he does or doesn't get to see the Tathagata, regardless of whether he does or doesn't get to hear the Dhamma & Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagatha — will alight on the lawfulness, the rightness of skillful mental qualities. There is the case of the person who will alight on the lawfulness, the rightness of skillful mental qualities if he gets to see the Tathagata and gets to hear the Dhamma & Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagatha, but not if he doesn't. ”
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.022.than.html

It's said, in Theravada Buddhism at least, that lust is eradicated upon the attainment of the 3rd    of the 4 stages of enlightenment, namely Anagami-ship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An%C4%81g%C4%81mi. Without developing to a high level the skillful mental qualities comprising the Seven Factors of Enlightenment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Factors_of_Enlightenment, this cannot be achieved (see for example Wings to Awakening http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/wings/part2.html#part2-g by Thanissaro Bhikkhu).

"What sort of person is quick in acquiring (ugghaṭitańńū)?
The person for whom there is penetration of the Dhamma at the very time when it is being taught is called “quick in acquiring.”

What sort of person is one who learns by means of a detailed exposition (vipańcitańńū)?
The person for whom there is penetration of the Dhamma when the meaning of what has been taught in brief is later analysed in detail is called “one who learns by means of a detailed exposition.”

What sort of person is one who may be guided (neyya)?
The person for whom penetration of the Dhamma comes gradually by means of recitation, questioning, proper attention, and by serving, cultivating and waiting upon kalyānamittas is called “one who may be guided.”

What sort of person is one for whom the letter alone is the highest thing (padaparama)?
The person for whom penetration of the Dhamma will not come in this life, however much [of the Teaching] he may hear and speak and bear in mind or recite, is called to be “one for whom the letter alone is the highest thing.”"
See for example Ajahn Maha Bua describing these types in “The Path to Arahatship” http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Maha_Boowa_The_Path_to_Arahantship.htm.

2. Again it depends on the person. IIRC, Reginald Ray in his book Indestructible Truth states that tantric practices arose partly because there was a belief that enlightenment takes multiple lifetimes with Theravada practices--even for the most dedicated—and some wanted to guarantee full enlightenment in a single lifetime. However, the most efficacious of these practices, such as the practice of “inner fire”, require an enormous investment of time and can also lead to psychosis for some people who are pre-disposed. See for example “The Psychology of Buddhist Tantra” by Rob Preece: “Embarking on a Higher Tantra practice [which contains instructions on inner fire] is a real commitment, and demands many years of study and practice.”

3. If none of the 3 poisons could be eradicated in a single lifetime by any person, then no-one would ever get enlightened, as they would always have further lifetimes to go. It's said that everyone has already lived innumerable lifetimes, so there can be no case of someone attaining enlightenment on their very first lifetime:

At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said: "From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks: Which is greater, the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — or the water in the four great oceans?"

"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the tears we have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans."

"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn15/sn15.003.than.html
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 22:34:26 »

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Stillwater
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 04:47:25 »

A professional first post. Some very good information.

To me this is sort of a question of reference to doctrine, because it is very difficult for a person to answer such a question with only ration or empiricism, although Rainbow's third point makes sense enough to me.
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Gemeni76
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 14:18:36 »

Thank's!  smiley

I would look in to that
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Bert23
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 14:09:43 »

In Thailand there are buddhist out there.
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 14:09:43 »



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Stillwater
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2015, 06:33:03 »

One or two  wink
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