baptism / blessing

[Jeff_Mash]

Hey Shedt,

Looks like you and I are both in the same situation, in more ways than one.  It's almost as if I could have written your original post.

My whole argument to my wife was/is this: "What is the point of baptising the child?"  After all, you should KNOW why you are doing the thing which you are doing.

Most baptisms (especially in the Catholic religion) symbolize, among other things, the dedication of the baby to God.  Not to mention, most Catholic priests won't even baptise you if you are not Catholic, or attend their church.  There are exceptions, of course.

So I have always been a strong supporter of not wanting to baptise my child, for two reasons:  

1) Because I believe that if a person wants to be baptised, then they should be old enough to know what it means and why they are doing it

2) Because I don't want to do something just out of tradition.....because if we're only doing it because "that's the way it's always been done," then what's the point?

However, my very own arguments are starting to work against me.  If, in fact, there really is no point, and it's all just a tradition, then what the hell is the big deal?

So now my thinking is starting to change to this: What is more important, not having my kid baptised and therefore feeling justified in my beliefs, or simply allowing my wife to be happy and do this trivial tradition for the sake of happiness?

I am starting to lean towards the second option.  I know what I believe.  I know the truth as it pertains to my life.  So why not be satisfied in my feelings, and just do this little traditional "baptism" thing?  Even I was baptised as a baby, and you know something?  I can't remember a friggin' thing about it...and neither will your little one.  So in order to spare future arguments and sore spots with the wife, if this is what she *really* wants, then have the comfort of knowing that it really makes no difference to your child.  They will not remember it, and as far as they are concerned, you could be at Burger King and they would be acting the same.

Just my two cents.....it may change as the wife gets more hormonal with her pregnancy!

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

For the record I too am totally against baptism. As I understand it is is not merely supposed to be a commitment to God, but a commitment to the church and all it stands for.

Religion is one of the single biggest problems still facing mankind today, just as it has been for the last 2000 years including the dark ages, so why would anyone wish to dedicate their child to that legacy?

Later in life children are, in many parts of the world, taught religious education in schools as if it were a fact, rather than of historical interest, and many children grow up to be religiously indocrinated as a direct result, which in turn effectively isolates them from the Universal truths and realities they need to understand in order to fulfill the purposes of the current physical life, so important in ongoing progression on the path.

I agree that a child does not remember being baptised, but baptism is nevertheless symbolic on the part of the parents of a wish to see their child indoctrinated in this way, and which is profoundly against the best interests of the child. Universal laws do come into effect in these situations; we all create our own realities and have the power to affect the reality of others. Baptism is a ritual which results in energies as a cause, the effect of which is to realise the wish of the parents to indoctrinate their child in this way, against the freewill of the child.

As Jeff has mentioned, when the child is old enough they have the freewill to decide whether they wish to be baptised or not, and that is the way the parents of children should proceed.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[wendi]

Baptism is an initiation for some people.  You could just say your own prayer over her, but if its going to cause your wife anxiety, you might want to have it done in a church.  Baptism in the Catholic Church is more of a blessing, while Baptism in a Pentecostal Chuch is an initiation.  Try to find a liberal church that just does Child Blessing days (some Pentecostal churches do them too).

Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen.  Not any religion or cultural system.  I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all.  I do not exist, am not an entity in this world or the next, did not descend from Adam or Eve or any origen story.  My place is placeless, a trace of the traceless.  Neither body or soul.  I belong to the beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know, first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being.  Rumi

[thankful]

In case you're interested, here's the quotation on baptism from Robert Bruce's book "Practical Psychic Self-Defense".  It's on page 321 and says:

"The Baptism Ritual
     Baptism is a sacred ritual that dedicates your spirit to God.  this association brings you under God's spiritual protection.  All religions have some kind of baptism rite for this purpose.  Unfortunately, many people today do not baptize their children, thinking this is a meaningless, outdated exercise.  This is understandable, but by all that I know, baptism is a very wise thing to do for yourself and your children.  Think of baptism as an anti-Neg spiritual inoculation.  While baptism does not provide perfect protection, it significantly reduces your chances of having serious Neg-related problems.  
     The essential difference between baptized and unbaptized people can be likened to the difference between holy water and ordinary tap water.  Holy water is exorcized, blessed and dedicated to
God, which turns it into a powerful holy symbol of purity.  Holy water has a protective cleansing spiritual glow that repels Negs in the same manner as sacred symbols and words.  Plain tap water has only its natural properties."

I baptized my children in the bathtub in a private sort of dedication to God.  All it takes is a simple prayer like "God I dedicate this child to you or I commit (child's name) into your hands".  God will hear you.  I've also had them "dedicated" in a church. There's something special about a community of people witnessing the dedication of a child to God and giving their "yes" to this child belonging to God.  I have a daughter with Cerebral Palsy and I really feel that attacks on her have diminised since the baptism, she is really vulnerable because of her condition and negs take advantage of the weak.  Now she is much calmer and sleeps much better through the night, previously she woke up several times a night crying.  In general, she is just a happier kid.  Hope this helps!

thankful

[BlueKanga]

I was baptised as an infant in a Protestant church. I don't remember it, and I think the physical sprinkling with water has had no effect on me at all as a person. But my parents' attitude toward me as being holy and set apart for God because of my baptism, and how they raised me as a result of that, effected me. Some of those effects were positive, and some were negative. Your daughter will not remember being baptised. The greatest blessing she can receive is parents who love her and raise her in a way that encourages her to seek and love truth. It seems like the greater issue is your relationship with your wife, and your respect for her spiritual convictions.

[exothen]

Adrian,

 

quote:As I understand it is is not merely supposed to be a commitment to God, but a commitment to the church and all it stands for.

It means different things to different Christian traditions.

 

quote:Religion is one of the single biggest problems still facing mankind today, just as it has been for the last 2000 years including the dark ages, so why would anyone wish to dedicate their child to that legacy?

Depends on which religion you are talking about. Since you mention 2000 years, I'll assume you mean Christianity. Sure there have been bad things done in the name of Christianity, but what of the good that's been done? At least give a balanced view instead of promoting a distorted version of history and Christianity.

 

quote:which in turn effectively isolates them from the Universal truths and realities they need to understand in order to fulfill the purposes of the current physical life, so important in ongoing progression on the path

And what makes you so sure you know the Universal truths? On what basis and authority can you claim to know the Universal truths and realities that those raised in religious cannot possess? You are being very dogmatic and intolerant of views other than your own; you sound very religious.[]

Give me one good reason why I should believe anything you say (especially in light of the following quote).

 

quote:we all create our own realities and have the power to affect the reality of others.

Okay...I don't get it. First you complain about all religous people and education, and who knows what else, when, according to you, it's all in your own head. Why don't you change your own reality and be done with it? Quite the contradiction you are wrapped up in.

Wendi,

 

quote:Baptism in the Catholic Church is more of a blessing, while Baptism in a Pentecostal Chuch is an initiation.

I would think it is actually the opposite, not that it really matters.

[shedt]

my daughter is not baptised, and I feel sorry for my wife but i do not think i will change my mind. i've tried too look for a solution, but what really bothers me is that she has not.

Why should I be the one to have to comprimise my beliefs ?

If my daughter when she is much older and able to think for herself wishes to then i will let her. personally i think though i will not allow it until she is much older, or at least until she is 18.

I view it currently almost as sex. it's easy too pursway someone esp. when they are experiencing hormonal changes etc. i want her to have a clear open mind on this, and not make a decision hastely based on emotions.

I hope though that it will be a pleasant journey of have with my daughter, for we will learn together i hope about many things.

[shedt]

My wife and I have a new-born baby. My wife is Christian, and I am Agnostic. I guess my belief system is a mix bag of this and that. The thing is I feel baptism is a inituation... and before we got married, even when we first started dating, I told her that if I was to have children they would not be baptised. I explained why. When we got serious she agreed with me, if we had children that we would not have them baptised. Before we got married, I told her again, that I would rather not get married if she expected us too have children and get them baptised, that I would want too call the wedding off.

She still agreed no baptisim.

I'm a spiritual person. Now my wife wants a baptism. I explained I would rather have some sort of alternative....

but I don't know what alternatives there are.

Can anyone suggest anything ?

Some sort of blessing maybe ?

I want my child protected, so many some sort of blessing that is not really attached too any religion. i dunno let me think for a bit.....