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Author Topic: dealing with discrimination  (Read 5569 times)
mon9999
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« on: March 08, 2010, 14:02:47 »

so guys just would like to ask if how do you deal with people who criticize and discriminate what you believe in especially in metaphysics? I'm quite sure a lot here have experienced already  smiley
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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 15:34:27 »

I usually beat them up and put a magickal curse on them!  cheesy

No, I usually just don't tell anyone unless they're interested.
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 15:34:27 »

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Xanth
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 18:21:55 »

I usually beat them up and put a magickal curse on them!  cheesy

No, I usually just don't tell anyone unless they're interested.
Pretty much that...
No point in telling closed-minded people something they don't want to hear.  Smiley
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mon9999
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 11:01:14 »

What if somebody discovers about what you believe in or you told them something accidentally and they started imposing their religious beliefs on you??  angry
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 11:40:14 »

I'd punch 'em in the mouth and then go off on my merry lil' way.  cheesy
Actually, not really. I'd just give 'em a taste of their own medicine and not listen to them and their beliefs the same way they decided not to listen to me and my beliefs. grin
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I will be away on vacation to Italy and Sicily from June 4 to the 22nd. I will try and get on when I can, but that time will be very short, if at all. I'll reply to any and all of my threads when I get back home though. smiley
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 11:40:14 »



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owl
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 14:26:04 »

so guys just would like to ask if how do you deal with people who criticize and discriminate what you believe in especially in metaphysics? I'm quite sure a lot here have experienced already  smiley

What I try to do is to remove myself from my ego and not get offended by what others say or think. For me, if I let them get to me I can feel the negative energy this creates which is not good for anyone. Try not to blame them, they just do not know any better.

We are all on different paths, but eventually all paths lead to the one. 
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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 14:44:21 »

I had an old friend from the university over yesterday and I showed him some of my experiments. He is a senior in Political Science and doesn't know much about vortex generators or crystal spheres and meditation. Although, he has just started martial arts and has learned about chi and energy centers. I told him that the device basically fills up your energy centers and gives you more energy throughout the day.

He put his hand on the device and looked at me and was shocked  shocked. He said, 'I can feel it, my arm is tingling!' I told him that the energy is broadcasted out like a radio antenna and if you sit there for 5 - 10 minutes your entire body will start to 'tingle' and fill with energy.

That was pretty much it, then we went and did some other stuff. Most people once they experience something like this, they don't know what to say. They know that it's real but it might go against what they have been taught or what they believe. I usually just laugh and tell them that it's just another crazy technology.  grin
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 15:17:36 »

What if somebody discovers about what you believe in or you told them something accidentally and they started imposing their religious beliefs on you??  angry
Religious belief is a very strong thing- most people who are very religious are for a reason, and their lives are too invested in their beliefs to be able to function without them.
Everyone looks at life in general from their own unique perspective, given that they have different experiences and points of view- and as you mature (or they, or whoever) their ideas about 'how things are' change.  This is good- but there are some people that for one reason or another have become dependent on certain ideas, and anything that challenges them is scary for them- if they change (or even challenge) their views, their entire sense of self vanishes.  So they will defend those ideas no matter what, and will attack anyone who postulates something different- it's a matter of survival for them.

So what to do?  Depends.  For one, you have to change perspectives and look at yourself.  If your sense of self is not tied to your ideas, then it is not necessary to defend them (or even discuss it) with someone who is being aggressive or nosy about what you believe.  So I think walking away is the best defense.
However, if the person doing the attacking is being very aggressive or disruptive in your life, then you have to decide how to handle it.  Leave this person behind, make them no longer a part of your life?  IDK it depends if this person is a member of your family.

One thing would be is to make clear that if this person wants to continue to be part of your life, they have to respect that these are your beliefs and even if they don't agree with them they must respect you and back off-
Another way is to learn about the religious history behind their religion, and 'know more' about it than they do, so when they come at you with some ill-conceived or incorrect interpretation of scripture, you can educate them as to what it 'really' said when it was written.  And then tell them to back off.

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mon9999
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 13:38:56 »

Religious belief is a very strong thing- most people who are very religious are for a reason, and their lives are too invested in their beliefs to be able to function without them.
Everyone looks at life in general from their own unique perspective, given that they have different experiences and points of view- and as you mature (or they, or whoever) their ideas about 'how things are' change.  This is good- but there are some people that for one reason or another have become dependent on certain ideas, and anything that challenges them is scary for them- if they change (or even challenge) their views, their entire sense of self vanishes.  So they will defend those ideas no matter what, and will attack anyone who postulates something different- it's a matter of survival for them.

So what to do?  Depends.  For one, you have to change perspectives and look at yourself.  If your sense of self is not tied to your ideas, then it is not necessary to defend them (or even discuss it) with someone who is being aggressive or nosy about what you believe.  So I think walking away is the best defense.
However, if the person doing the attacking is being very aggressive or disruptive in your life, then you have to decide how to handle it.  Leave this person behind, make them no longer a part of your life?  IDK it depends if this person is a member of your family.

One thing would be is to make clear that if this person wants to continue to be part of your life, they have to respect that these are your beliefs and even if they don't agree with them they must respect you and back off-
Another way is to learn about the religious history behind their religion, and 'know more' about it than they do, so when they come at you with some ill-conceived or incorrect interpretation of scripture, you can educate them as to what it 'really' said when it was written.  And then tell them to back off.



I really got into a heated discussion with someone! imposing their xtian beliefs!! sad
It's sad how people's consciousness can be too shallow  sad
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Xanth
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 18:06:44 »

I really got into a heated discussion with someone! imposing their xtian beliefs!! sad
It's sad how people's consciousness can be too shallow  sad
Ah, but who really is more shallow?

The person who will keep bashing and bashing something against someone until you both are red in the face with anger... or the person who accepts the other persons beliefs for what they are and walks away grounded and centered?  Smiley
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personalreality
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 20:21:54 »

This comes up a lot for me at my job.  I work in a metaphysical shop and there's always the guy who's girlfriend or friend drags him in and he starts running his mouth as soon as he sets foot in the store.  "This is a bunch of bulls**t!  You all are a bunch of f*gs!" etc. etc. etc.  Generally I tell them that no one is making them stay in the store, if they're uncomfortable they are more than welcome to leave, but if they're curious they're more than welcome to stay.  I have had to ask someone to leave before because they were becoming rude and very derogatory. 

You gotta understand that people's realities are dictated by their beliefs.  Unfortunately, children are bombarded with the belief system of their parents before they have a chance to test the waters and see what feels right to them.  Not that the belief of their parents is bad for them necessarily, but the problem is that it paints their perception usually for the rest of their life.  I mean, I've been practicing and studying various topics in metaphysics for almost 10 years and I still often see the world through christian colored glasses.  Once you have the belief system imprint in your physical body it's hard to get away.  I mean, you have your "soul" with it's own characteristics and then you have a body with genetic traits and temperments.  If that body gets programmed early, before the "soul" has the opportunity to adjust to this life and adapt to the body's traits, it can be hard to overcome unless you have a really strong will to curiosity and discovery.

It's hard for people to accept things that they've been told was wrong all their lives.  We ought not blame the people specifically, but as a whole.  And perhaps throw a little blame on the groups themselves.  I mean, I don't personally believe in any religion for example that has been generalized into a form for the common folk.  If it's not in the original mystical tradition I don't trust it.  The only real reason isn't because the generalized traditions necessarily lack truth, but rather because the generalized forms are too easy to manipulate.  And unfortunately many of them have been manipulated to the point that they are barely worthy of being called a religion anymore.  I really love studying religion too, it's sad that it has been turned into something to manipulate and control people. 

I don't believe in evolution creating man, but I do believe in evolution as a process of growth and change.  From that perspective, socially we are pretty low on the evolutionary totem pole, not much different than our animal brethren.  We can try to make it all look nice and sophisticated, but when it comes down to it we're scared, angry, territorial creatures concerned with survival and we will do what we have to to get it.  It just so happens that we are also intelligent enough to consider existential questions, "Who am I?  Why am I here?  Where did we come from?".  This lead us to understand the experience of a non-physical essence, but we're still territorial survival based animals, just now we're fighting for our everlasting soul.  Seems like the stakes have risen a bit.

I think we've taken that to the extreme too.  I listen to Christian Talk Radio most of the time because the antenna is broken on my car and that's all I can pick up when I get close to my house.  Now, I was raised as a Southern Baptist Protestant Christian, which is pretty extreme, we bore all those fanatical conservative extremists.  So I know a little bit about the christian perspective and as unfortunate as it may be, many of the modern evangelists don't get what christianity (paulianity.....research the Essenes) as a spiritual tradition is supposed to be.  Their job as christians is to share the word, forgive and not pass judgment.  It is God's job to judge, not yours.  You can teach others but you're not supposed to go out and convert the hethens.  Nevertheless, these modern christians seem to have taken the "good book" and extrapolated a whole moral code on sheer implication.  Some of the stuff these people believe today you won't ever see in a bible, but they decided that they were wise enough to interpret the word and create a moral system from it.  So imagine growing up with only that system of belief available to you.  What would you do??  Psychologically and Evolutionarily there is a lot going on with the development of a person in relation to society that I think gets overlooked a lot.  Really.  The developmental process as a child grows is ridiculously complex and it's not terribly hard to imprint that process with a little seed of intolerance that will later bloom into a full grown hatred plant. 

As a species we ought to take responsibility and recognize that we're not setting the proper example.  We need to get our crap straight and learn to accept the rights of others.  I know that as metaphysical practitioners we often have a more "enlightened" perspective, but even we often lack the ability to act congruently with our beliefs.  It's hard sometimes, we want our species to succeed and provide a meaningful life for everyone, but I think sometimes we'd do better to just mind our business and worry about our own salvation.  The mass can't evolve unless the individuals do. 

I guess I try to engage naysayers and see what issue they take with my behavior and try to have a conversation about some of the truths and falsities in both their perception and mine.  Sometimes that's not possible because let's face it, some people are dumb, loud, arrogant, and scared to death of what you do.  If I recognize that there is no way to have a civil discussion and a legitimate discussion (not just back and forth banter) then I will just change the subject and appeal to them in another way.  It's like the story I read by the author Stuart Wilde.  He was in Japan (I think, maybe China, I don't know) studying Aikido and after training for a while he thought he was good enough to beat someone up and he got his opportunity.  He was on the bus and a big drunk Japanese man got on and started hassling people.  Wilde was just waiting for him to cross the line so that he teach him a thing or two and when that moment came, Wilde stood up and gave the guy a "HEY YOU!" and prepared for battle.  Before it could go any further, a little old Japanese man on the other end of the bus yelled out "STOP!" and proceeded to talk to the drunk man and learned that he had just lost his job or something and calmed him down.  It was then that Stuart realized that the old man was a true Aikido master, because the true master's goal is to never fight, but rather remedy the situation in a peaceful manner.  The old man did that, Stuart did not.  So I would rather change the subject than get into a battle, even a verbal one.  But sometimes you just have to walk away because there is nothing you can say or do.
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 23:07:11 »

This comes up a lot for me at my job.  I work in a metaphysical shop and there's always the guy who's girlfriend or friend drags him in and he starts running his mouth as soon as he sets foot in the store.  "This is a bunch of bulls**t!  You all are a bunch of f*gs!" etc. etc. etc.  Generally I tell them that no one is making them stay in the store, if they're uncomfortable they are more than welcome to leave, but if they're curious they're more than welcome to stay.  I have had to ask someone to leave before because they were becoming rude and very derogatory. 

You gotta understand that people's realities are dictated by their beliefs.  Unfortunately, children are bombarded with the belief system of their parents before they have a chance to test the waters and see what feels right to them.  Not that the belief of their parents is bad for them necessarily, but the problem is that it paints their perception usually for the rest of their life.  I mean, I've been practicing and studying various topics in metaphysics for almost 10 years and I still often see the world through christian colored glasses.  Once you have the belief system imprint in your physical body it's hard to get away.  I mean, you have your "soul" with it's own characteristics and then you have a body with genetic traits and temperments.  If that body gets programmed early, before the "soul" has the opportunity to adjust to this life and adapt to the body's traits, it can be hard to overcome unless you have a really strong will to curiosity and discovery.

It's hard for people to accept things that they've been told was wrong all their lives.  We ought not blame the people specifically, but as a whole.  And perhaps throw a little blame on the groups themselves.  I mean, I don't personally believe in any religion for example that has been generalized into a form for the common folk.  If it's not in the original mystical tradition I don't trust it.  The only real reason isn't because the generalized traditions necessarily lack truth, but rather because the generalized forms are too easy to manipulate.  And unfortunately many of them have been manipulated to the point that they are barely worthy of being called a religion anymore.  I really love studying religion too, it's sad that it has been turned into something to manipulate and control people. 

I don't believe in evolution creating man, but I do believe in evolution as a process of growth and change.  From that perspective, socially we are pretty low on the evolutionary totem pole, not much different than our animal brethren.  We can try to make it all look nice and sophisticated, but when it comes down to it we're scared, angry, territorial creatures concerned with survival and we will do what we have to to get it.  It just so happens that we are also intelligent enough to consider existential questions, "Who am I?  Why am I here?  Where did we come from?".  This lead us to understand the experience of a non-physical essence, but we're still territorial survival based animals, just now we're fighting for our everlasting soul.  Seems like the stakes have risen a bit.

I think we've taken that to the extreme too.  I listen to Christian Talk Radio most of the time because the antenna is broken on my car and that's all I can pick up when I get close to my house.  Now, I was raised as a Southern Baptist Protestant Christian, which is pretty extreme, we bore all those fanatical conservative extremists.  So I know a little bit about the christian perspective and as unfortunate as it may be, many of the modern evangelists don't get what christianity (paulianity.....research the Essenes) as a spiritual tradition is supposed to be.  Their job as christians is to share the word, forgive and not pass judgment.  It is God's job to judge, not yours.  You can teach others but you're not supposed to go out and convert the hethens.  Nevertheless, these modern christians seem to have taken the "good book" and extrapolated a whole moral code on sheer implication.  Some of the stuff these people believe today you won't ever see in a bible, but they decided that they were wise enough to interpret the word and create a moral system from it.  So imagine growing up with only that system of belief available to you.  What would you do??  Psychologically and Evolutionarily there is a lot going on with the development of a person in relation to society that I think gets overlooked a lot.  Really.  The developmental process as a child grows is ridiculously complex and it's not terribly hard to imprint that process with a little seed of intolerance that will later bloom into a full grown hatred plant. 

As a species we ought to take responsibility and recognize that we're not setting the proper example.  We need to get our crap straight and learn to accept the rights of others.  I know that as metaphysical practitioners we often have a more "enlightened" perspective, but even we often lack the ability to act congruently with our beliefs.  It's hard sometimes, we want our species to succeed and provide a meaningful life for everyone, but I think sometimes we'd do better to just mind our business and worry about our own salvation.  The mass can't evolve unless the individuals do. 

I guess I try to engage naysayers and see what issue they take with my behavior and try to have a conversation about some of the truths and falsities in both their perception and mine.  Sometimes that's not possible because let's face it, some people are dumb, loud, arrogant, and scared to death of what you do.  If I recognize that there is no way to have a civil discussion and a legitimate discussion (not just back and forth banter) then I will just change the subject and appeal to them in another way.  It's like the story I read by the author Stuart Wilde.  He was in Japan (I think, maybe China, I don't know) studying Aikido and after training for a while he thought he was good enough to beat someone up and he got his opportunity.  He was on the bus and a big drunk Japanese man got on and started hassling people.  Wilde was just waiting for him to cross the line so that he teach him a thing or two and when that moment came, Wilde stood up and gave the guy a "HEY YOU!" and prepared for battle.  Before it could go any further, a little old Japanese man on the other end of the bus yelled out "STOP!" and proceeded to talk to the drunk man and learned that he had just lost his job or something and calmed him down.  It was then that Stuart realized that the old man was a true Aikido master, because the true master's goal is to never fight, but rather remedy the situation in a peaceful manner.  The old man did that, Stuart did not.  So I would rather change the subject than get into a battle, even a verbal one.  But sometimes you just have to walk away because there is nothing you can say or do.
Wow, personalreality.  I really liked this.  Can I quote you?
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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 00:19:36 »

In my above post I talked about an old friend that came over to my house and tried out my device. I just got done talking with him today and he said that yesterday he was throwing up and had the worst headache / stomachache in his entire life. Today though I guess he felt fine. He thought that he got the flu for a day  grin
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Anemani
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 00:55:06 »

^^ I had the flu for a day a while back. My body had been fighting it off for a few days and then I spent the night at my sisters and she got the flu, then the next I finally got it. lol it was weird because one minute I had been really sick then five minutes later I am back to full health and running around crazy.
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mon9999
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 06:32:25 »

Ah, but who really is more shallow?

The person who will keep bashing and bashing something against someone until you both are red in the face with anger... or the person who accepts the other persons beliefs for what they are and walks away grounded and centered?  Smiley

I was the one who actually walked away to end it
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Xanth
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2010, 17:37:16 »

I was the one who actually walked away to end it
That's good!  Smiley
Except, you got into the 'heated debate' before.  hehe
Just try walking away without the debate part.  Wink
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gdo
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2010, 02:51:53 »

Forgive them and love them as much as they will allow.  They are not your enemies and you are not their enemy. 
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caterpillarwoman
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 06:52:36 »

I was the one who actually walked away to end it
That's pretty much my usual tactic. I have no desire to feed my energy to people like that.

The reason they try so hard to convince you how right they are is really their own ego trying to keep their own (possibly narrow) worldview intact. After all, if you or someone else is even remotely "right" then they might be "wrong", because to people like that, there is only "right and wrong" and no room for possibilities that may be neither.

We all create our own experiences of reality, our own reality, if you will. They're creating theirs, and you're creating yours. Their reality and your reality don't have to line up. This is the key: they don't understand that their reality is not the only possibility. You, on the other hand, have the opportunity, through open minded exploration and the willingness to discard beliefs, concepts, ideas, etc. that limit you, to know that all experiences are valid, and all realities are valid, in their own contexts.

Truth is, they could do the same, but most people who live in very limited and limiting belief systems have no desire or inclination to expand their awareness. They're wrapped in their beliefs, and that's their "identity", and changing their beliefs means, to them, possibly losing their identity. Don't let your own beliefs become your identity. They're not you, they're just what you're experiencing. Wink
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mon9999
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2010, 10:27:35 »

That's pretty much my usual tactic. I have no desire to feed my energy to people like that.

The reason they try so hard to convince you how right they are is really their own ego trying to keep their own (possibly narrow) worldview intact. After all, if you or someone else is even remotely "right" then they might be "wrong", because to people like that, there is only "right and wrong" and no room for possibilities that may be neither.

We all create our own experiences of reality, our own reality, if you will. They're creating theirs, and you're creating yours. Their reality and your reality don't have to line up. This is the key: they don't understand that their reality is not the only possibility. You, on the other hand, have the opportunity, through open minded exploration and the willingness to discard beliefs, concepts, ideas, etc. that limit you, to know that all experiences are valid, and all realities are valid, in their own contexts.

Truth is, they could do the same, but most people who live in very limited and limiting belief systems have no desire or inclination to expand their awareness. They're wrapped in their beliefs, and that's their "identity", and changing their beliefs means, to them, possibly losing their identity. Don't let your own beliefs become your identity. They're not you, they're just what you're experiencing. Wink



TRUE TRUE  cry
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2010, 23:49:08 »

My method of dealing with discrimination is to just walk away, and then be seen living well by the discriminator(s), while at the same time not speaking to them. I imagine this must be infuriating for them, but it might make them think twice about their existence.
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