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Author Topic: Explaining Christian "Spiritual Gifts"  (Read 16521 times)
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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2014, 18:36:08 »

What do the statements "Become Love" or "Move closer to Love" mean to you, AAAAAAAA? 
I'm speaking in terms of spiritual growth.

In terms of spiritual growth, definitely not praying for other people. I'd say it just means to have more of it. But to act out upon those emotions can easily be irrational, and dangerous at that.
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Xanth
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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2014, 19:03:42 »

In terms of spiritual growth, definitely not praying for other people. I'd say it just means to have more of it. But to act out upon those emotions can easily be irrational, and dangerous at that.
How about just being generally kind to all conscious beings? 
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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2014, 19:03:42 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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soarin12
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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2014, 20:52:19 »

That's exactly it though, loving people so much that you want to pray for everyone you see... is a human emotion.

The praying part aside, this kind of love isn't a human emotion.  It's your true self.  It's the love the people in all those NDEs experience.  When they come back to their bodies they are changed and know the reason for their existence here is to learn love.  This love can also be experienced in some OBEs and in the physical.  The more you pursue it (not just the feeling but acting in kindness to all) the more it will be evident in your life.  The kind of love that is the human emotion (not your true self) is tainted with selfishness -such as neediness, jealousy and fear of loss.  Also, if you don't like the notion of praying, how about thinking of it as wishing people well, or sending positive healing energy to them?  It's really the same thing as long as you have intent behind it. 
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Xanth
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2014, 21:43:02 »

The praying part aside, this kind of love isn't a human emotion.  It's your true self.  It's the love the people in all those NDEs experience.  When they come back to their bodies they are changed and know the reason for their existence here is to learn love.  This love can also be experienced in some OBEs and in the physical.  The more you pursue it (not just the feeling but acting in kindness to all) the more it will be evident in your life.  The kind of love that is the human emotion (not your true self) is tainted with selfishness -such as neediness, jealousy and fear of loss.  Also, if you don't like the notion of praying, how about thinking of it as wishing people well, or sending positive healing energy to them?  It's really the same thing as long as you have intent behind it. 
Well put.  smiley
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Bert23
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2015, 12:08:23 »

That's exactly it though, loving people so much that you want to pray for everyone you see... is a human emotion.
You're right.
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2015, 12:08:23 »



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ZenJedi
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« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2016, 09:33:24 »

I have a lot of the same questions. I realize that it's been awhile since people have posted to this. Are there still people here to engage in conversation?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 09:37:20 by ZenJedi » Logged
Xanth
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« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2016, 21:46:05 »

I have a lot of the same questions. I realize that it's been awhile since people have posted to this. Are there still people here to engage in conversation?
Yup!  Fire away.  Smiley
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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2016, 02:29:39 »

I know it's old, but I feel that A person.

Again, I'm a cynical dude, and I too easily associate buzzwords and catch phrases with nonsense new age philosophies trying to rebrand age old systems of control.

I'm not interested in unconditional love for anyone but myself.

That said, I also feel that if I love myself unconditionally, I will love everyone else as reflections of myself. Not in the "we're all part of the same whole" kind of way, but in the "what you hate about the world is actually what you hate about yourself" shadow self kind of way. So, once I love myself, I will in turn find nothing to not love in the world out there.

All of these concepts of prayer, love, selflessness, etc., just get in my way. They are hindrances to me following my path.

That doesn't mean I'm a jerk though. I am always kind and generous. I just feel better emotionally when I'm nice to other people in action. Verbally, I'm a jerk most of the time. But I've made a habit of helping others whenever they need it. I don't try to analyze that and morph it into my personal philosophy. I'm just nice because I'd hope people would be nice to me. 
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ZenJedi
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« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2016, 03:58:23 »

So I'm coming from a situation a lot like Aaron who started this post. It's been causing me some confusion and now I'm on a quest for truth. I'll try and summarize my experiences, and I can go further into detail you need. I'm just trying to make sense of everything, so I appreciate any input and help.

I was raised Baptist in church growing up learning the stories of the bible. Most forms of the supernatural were considered evil. At the age of 20 I started to take church more seriously. My first church I felt like I heard Gods voice talking to me. I quit my job and moved to go to a discipleship school.

My second church I learned about the gifts of the spirit but didn't see much of it. I was the only person who didn't speak in tongues in my class because I'm  not into faking anything. It was more of learning the bible in depth for me.

I felt like God told me to move to another church. So my third church was acting in the gifts of the spirit a lot more. They were known for casting out demons. I was blown away because I felt like I had an epiphany that the bible was much more real. I saw exorcisms first hand with some of my family and close friends. And I went to a seminar class to learn more about it.

My fourth church was known for miracles. Once again I was in awe. I've prayed for people and have seen them healed. I have friends that have been healed, one of stage four cancer. And the church keeps the medical records that prove it. People say if miracles were real then we would see people going into hospitals and clearing out the waiting rooms... but my friends actually do.

I started researching quantum physics which lead me to things like Astral project and metaphysics. I've read a number of posts from  here and online so I pretty much know the basics of what most people believe on here. I'm also very very open minded. I've studied all different kinds of religions, but I've always sided with Christianity because of my experiences. I really like Buddhism, but look at it more as a way of life. Lately though, the bibles theology hasn't been making sense to me. It contradicts itself and doesn't come to very strong conclusions. I've always had a problem with the way church's operate, and most are blinded by faith, which if they're right then that's good for them. I've been stumbling onto the early church and all the corruption of Christianity. The things you guys talk about in F3 makes more sense to me than Christianity. I can closely relate charismatic church's to psychics and metaphysics and have heard the gifts of the spirits explained. But I have a hard time because of some of my experiences, mainly the demons and seeing miracles. If you guys have any experience or advice I'm all ears. It's been kind of a rough transition and I don't know what to believe anymore. Thanks for hearing me out.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:03:05 by ZenJedi » Logged
EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2016, 08:13:12 »

ZenJedi-

I guess that I was very lucky, my parents were very secular and so I feel that I avoided the whole structured religion-trap. Don't get me wrong, pure secularism has its terrible side. Life without any kind of respect for the greater opportunity that Creation affords us, without any respect for something greater than ourselves, is harmful. Any of these viewpoints taken to their extremes, I think can be destructive both to the community and the individual.

So we find ourselves on particularly individual journeys, such as you have described...fourth church, huh?

I have found certain church experiences wonderful for the communal feeling it gives me, but the overarching phoniness that is present just drives me away; it seems to be the inherent result within any large, bureaucratic structure that invites control and corruption of its members.

The fact that you witnessed possessions and Miracles is wonderful but simply states that within a large group of like-minded people, remarkable changes can be manifested within Physical Reality...it is amazing when you witness it firsthand and it's not all completely explainable.

I like the Buddhist/Taoist tradition as well...if I had to pick one, it would be in there somewhere.

When I was about 8 years old, I was aware of successfully dodging structured religion and yet I was also aware that consciousness was the next frontier, there was something more there; I was interested although my parents weren't (and still aren't).

No one can convince you simply with words, you need to experience this for yourself. The ideas and techniques are here, ready for you to try...and you can then decide for yourself. It takes time and a fair amount of effort; only a rare few get exceptional results the first try. I can only tell you that the journey is real, the sights are real...how far you can take it is only up to you...you have to decide to take the first steps to find out. And yes, it IS worth the effort. You have been looking without and you know the answer is within.

My advice is to start with your dreams...write them down, figure out the symbolism and eventually your dreams will start to tell you things about yourself. Think back over the years to dreams or experiences that stood out for examination, they are there.

It is not a great leap from your dreams to the ecstatic experiences that make up much of the revelatory moments in the Bible. Why should this level of experience be denied to you? Ask and receive...

Oh...and Welcome to the Pulse!

« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 08:19:23 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2016, 21:29:17 »

If you look at near death experiences (NDEs), where people are clinically dead, have some kind of afterlife experience, and then come back, there is a whole range of things reported by these people.

People who are Christian or have some kind of fixation with it, even if only subconsciously, often (not always) have heaven or hell-type experiences during NDEs and come back convinced that these places are real.  Buddhists and Hindus often have different experiences peculiar to their own religious beliefs, and then some people just float around and look at things as if they were just a disembodied spirit checking out the world.  We create our own dreams, whether consciously or subconsciously, and we also guide astral projections in the same way.  I suspect that the afterlife is no different.

Things here on the physical plane are much the same.  Miracles are totally possible within the paradigm of Christianity, but they are also possible within the belief structures of any other religion.  The only thing is that evangelical Christians will say that God or Jesus are performing all of their miracles while everyone elses', even if the results are undisputably positive, are just trickery by Satan to confuse people.  I have never seen any religions so fascinated with the idea that everyone outside of their group is in league with devils, as I have with the Abrahamic religions.  It's just another kind of recruitment tool in the end, and a way to keep people in line.  You need go no further than the history of the Catholic Church to see to what lengths this religion has gone to just to maintain its influence over peoples' minds, from torture (Inquisition) and genocide (annihilation of Native American tribes) to rewriting history books and transforming pagan celebrations into things like Christmas and Easter.
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ZenJedi
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« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2016, 00:11:16 »

Thanks for the info. It's really hard to break away from something that has been ingrained into your head your entire life. Especially when you've had supernatural experiences to what you think is backing your belief system up. The more I study the more I understand what you guys are talking about. The thing that I have a hard time with is the evil spirits. I've seen unexplainable things and most people deem them unreal. I guess it would make sense to only hear the Christian side to it since that has been my only influence. I'm slowly breaking out of the mind control manipulation of things. Smiley
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Lumaza
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« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2016, 00:38:34 »

Thanks for the info. It's really hard to break away from something that has been ingrained into your head your entire life. Especially when you've had supernatural experiences to what you think is backing your belief system up. The more I study the more I understand what you guys are talking about. The thing that I have a hard time with is the evil spirits. I've seen unexplainable things and most people deem them unreal. I guess it would make sense to only hear the Christian side to it since that has been my only influence. I'm slowly breaking out of the mind control manipulation of things. Smiley
The only way a person will ever change their mindset completely is when they experience it for themselves. Studying it can help you get other opinions, because the person that is writing is only showing you what "they" have perceived themselves to be true. Many times though they are just "rehashing" what someone else has said as well. Religion in general is well known for that.

 The same goes with Astral Projection. You can read, listen to videos, etc. all you want, but experiencing it for yourself will give you the "proof" and answers you are searching for.
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