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Author Topic: Faith and what is it really?  (Read 3695 times)
Astralzombie
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« on: February 16, 2013, 23:00:19 »

Recently I was reading the sticky about the contradiction not only between the different religions but also with in the same religion.

They make some relevant points but many studious Priest's, Rabbi's, Oman's, and what have you can make some pretty compelling arguments to why we should dismiss these inconsistencies and still have faith that their religion is the real truth, the way, and the light.

So for me, my problem lies in faith itself. Or more accurately, why do we have to rely on faith when it concerns the most important aspect to the vast majority of people in the world. We most certainly do not apply the standard of faith in other crucial areas.

Do we believe a man's proclaim of innocence when he is seen to be holding a knife and is covered in the blood of a deceased person lying at his feet? Since no one saw him commit the act, do we have faith in his claim of innocence even when his character was previously beyond reproach? No, we do not.

It is far too dangerous to society if we let someone capable of this kind of heinous act go free just because someone has faith in his word. So we have a system in place in which he has a chance to prove himself. If his proof falls short, he is then condemned.

But yet organized religion says that God's word is beyond reproach. This, I believe to be true as well. What I don't believe is THEIR account of God's word.

I believe that God has spoken through many people to deliver his message. But the TRUTH is far too important to rest on the interpretation of one man. So, I actually believe that God speaks to each of us in our own way.

Organized religion tries to teach us that when we question their doctrine, we are risking our "salvation".  What they really care about is not our salvation but their own and they're concern is entirely of this physical world. If you ask the right questions, the only thing you are at risk of losing is your faith in organized religion.

I'll end this before it turns into a tirade as that was not my intention. I also did not mean to imply that every devout religious leader has some warped agenda. I believe that they are sincere when they spread the message of love and hope. I just believe it is ultimately doomed because we are supposed to rely on faith.

I was interested in what some of you thought about faith and is true faith even possible. To me, at it's strongest, faith should develop into knowing. I don't think we can ever learn enough in the physical to be sure of anything that comes next. But I have learned enough already that I don't have to rely on faith to find happiness and comfort.

I hope nobody is offended when I speak of God in a masculine sense. As of now, I have not placed any limitations or definitions on who or what God is. If everything stays on track for me, I suspect that I never will again.
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Szaxx
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 23:34:49 »

Faith,
 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
Interesting point made at the end of the text.
The section on other spiritual religions, also has a valid point to make. As children we have the need of faith in our parents to do that required for sustaining life, teaching right from wrong and keeping us safe. This is done in faith they will not fail us.

Trusting those to 'care' for our well-being relates to this in much the same way as purported through many religions.
The words communicated on the Pulse also fall into faith. Those searching for answers trust the words of others until success is made.
It's all faith.
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 23:34:49 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Astralzombie
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 23:53:11 »

Szaxx- I understand that as children, everything we first learn to be true is based on faith. We trust our parents when they tell us the sky is blue. But as we grow, we have experiences that verify that claim. For example, we see that the smurfs are the same color as the sky and that color is blue. At some point the color that we accept as blue had been verified us many times over.

Maybe I am far too cynical right now but I'm viewing anything that man says on religion as self serving to another man.

To me God understands this trait of man and wouldn't condemn a person who has lived a truly kind and compassionate life to some hell because he doubted what his fellow man had to say about God.

I really am open to finding a good example of how organized religion could serve God's purpose and deliver his true message but when I do, I'm sure having faith will not be a part of that example.

Thank you Szaxx. The link had a lot to say so I have a lot to read.
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Wi11iam
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 02:04:13 »

We are GOD.

Now all that is required is for you to work that out to the point where faith is no longer required.

Start with the fact that in order to have ANY kind of identity, you need Consciousness.

Work on what it is about your sense of self identity which insists you are not (or cannot be) GOD.



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Astralzombie
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 03:27:32 »

We are GOD.

Now all that is required is for you to work that out to the point where faith is no longer required.

Start with the fact that in order to have ANY kind of identity, you need Consciousness.

Work on what it is about your sense of self identity which insists you are not (or cannot be) GOD.





I think I agree with you. If you mean that we collectively form God, then yes I agree. But God as an abstract singularity has all the power concentrated and I will never be able to identify myself as having all that power concentrated in myself. It is proven everyday that we as individuals have no real control over anything. Control, like the physical world is just an illusion.
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 03:27:32 »



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Wi11iam
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 04:55:23 »

I think I agree with you. If you mean that we collectively form God, then yes I agree. But God as an abstract singularity has all the power concentrated and I will never be able to identify myself as having all that power concentrated in myself. It is proven everyday that we as individuals have no real control over anything. Control, like the physical world is just an illusion.

Therein is your main obstacle.  You identify yourself as being 'Human' - It is not about 'control' - GOD is not about control - that is a human conception which has been used to 'dress'- up 'what god is' a costume concept which has no relationship to what GOD actually is.

We don;t 'collectively form god' - we are GOD because we are Consciousness...and until we understand that this is our true identity, we can only fail at BEING GOD. 

It doesn;t even matter where you find yourself - what universe, what reality - IF you have the presence of understanding your 'I AM' as being 'Joe the human having fun in astral land' (for example) you have missed the mark as to who you are.  You have settled for something you are not.

Like an actor playing a part...


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Astralzombie
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 05:14:56 »

Just to be clear, I do not have any idea of who or what God is or isn't. I understand why we as humans have formed the idea of there being a God but it has not served humanity as a whole, any real good.

Somebody or something created all of this but I don't think that necessarily makes them a God just like I don't believe my parents are God's for creating me physically.

And as far as identifying with being human, I don't see that as a bad thing. What's the point and how can we grow and learn if we don't identify ourselves with our current form.

You see it as settling for less, I see it as owning up to my end of the deal.
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Wi11iam
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 06:27:06 »

Just to be clear, I do not have any idea of who or what God is or isn't. I understand why we as humans have formed the idea of there being a God but it has not served humanity as a whole, any real good.

Somebody or something created all of this but I don't think that necessarily makes them a God just like I don't believe my parents are God's for creating me physically.

And as far as identifying with being human, I don't see that as a bad thing. What's the point and how can we grow and learn if we don't identify ourselves with our current form.

You see it as settling for less, I see it as owning up to my end of the deal.

Well you mentioned 'god' so I kept with that naming of it.  It is the common word or name for 'creator' but really we are it.
It is not the form which makes us 'grow'.  It is not 'less' it is just not our real identity.

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 06:32:25 »

Well you mentioned 'god' so I kept with that naming of it.  It is the common word or name for 'creator' but really we are it.
It is not the form which makes us 'grow'.  It is not 'less' it is just not our real identity.


It doesn't make us grow but it allows us to. It gives us the ability to really understand cause and effect.
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 07:32:58 »

It doesn't make us grow but it allows us to. It gives us the ability to really understand cause and effect.

Consciousness already understands cause and effect.

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 14:06:41 »

I stopped identifying myself to a "religion" per say because I refused to be part of something that believed that good people who didn't follow their exact "protocols" would go to "hell".

If that's the case, I would rather go there with other good people than float on some cloud.

I put that rather bluntly and what is ironic is that faith has led me to believe that. Fear can lead straight to the bandwagon. It can take faith to take your own path. Where some might see it as a lack of faith, haha.

Faith is a necessity that keeps us going and it is how we accept and make sense of this world. It is a wonderful and beautiful thing, but unfortunately it can be destructive as well.
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 16:37:06 »

Quote
It can take faith to take your own path

That's a great way to look at it.

You are right when you say that fear and not faith is what leads most people to organized religion.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 16:49:47 »

I'd be insensitive if I bad talked people who followed organized religion. There are plenty of beautifully good people who are part of organized religion. It just doesn't float my particular boat. I don't wanna imply it's a negative thing, or that people mostly turn to it because of fear.
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 22:24:24 »

I'd be insensitive if I bad talked people who followed organized religion. There are plenty of beautifully good people who are part of organized religion. It just doesn't float my particular boat. I don't wanna imply it's a negative thing, or that people mostly turn to it because of fear.

There are plenty of religious leaders who practice what they preach and are all about hope and love, just as there are followers who are the same.

I know that I am more critical than most but it's only because I was a true believer and I was "abandoned" in what I thought was my darkest moment. Maybe I just have some silly grudge but I've earned it. wink

If anyone reads one of my posts and they are a devout follower of an organized faith then I hope they know that I meant their beliefs no ill intent. I am not privy to anything special nor am I any more certain of what comes next than what they might be certain of themselves.

The last thing I want to be is to sound preachy but when I hear followers of a particular faith worrying about the devil when their belief in a savior is all that is supposedly needed, I do question whether or not it's fear or love that motivates their belief in certain faiths.

But we can't all be right and I'm betting on my own beliefs. But on the bright side, according to my beliefs, we can all go to a heaven of sorts. This is not a pass because I believe we will all have to honestly judge ourselves in one way or another. And I do mean honestly.
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Bedeekin
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2013, 23:12:18 »

I also did not mean to imply that every devout religious leader has some warped agenda. I believe that they are sincere when they spread the message of love and hope. I just believe it is ultimately doomed because we are supposed to rely on faith.

I feel that religions way of spreading the word isn't wholly sincere... I don't think it is about spreading 'love'. They use the word love but in the wrong context.

"spreading the word" is just that.. spreading an idea in the hope of getting members to assign to that particular belief. Strength in numbers. A sort of gang... society.. clan... tribe... group.. of likeminded individuals. But they are actually having identity and individuality removed and replaced by a complicit view. I think the word 'flock', used to describe a group of christians in the eyes of the clergy is actually the most apt and telling label.

Maybe some quiet priest or vicar in some little parish or village congregation truly believes that he is spreading the word, and has complete conviction that he is doing gods work.. .but he is ultimately part of a massively profitable establishment that is essentially a big business headed at the top by a committee of bigwigs.

I hold a slight cynical view towards organised religion and don't actually tip toe around upsetting people's faith. The very fact their faith can be 'insulted' is a massive clue as to the true sincerity they hold towards it. If I told you your physical body wasn't covered in skin... would you be insulted? I doubt it. This is because you are 100% sure that it is and you would probably just think I was being completely ridiculous. If I told you your god didn't exist.. I doubt the same conviction would be brought into the bargain. There lies the problem of 'faith'. It can be shook... it can be shed and it can be changed if it doesn't suit you.

"The last thing I want to be is to sound preachy"

This is a noble comment... but you are actually cow towing to something that is ultimately the biggest most preachery thing that currently exists in the world today... bar evangelical atheism.  grin

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Astralzombie
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2013, 00:31:34 »

Quote
but you are actually cow towing to something that is ultimately the biggest most preachery thing that currently exists in the world today... bar evangelical atheism.  grin
You just couldn't let me fart and tell everyone it's potpourri, could you? grin
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2013, 00:49:58 »

HAHA!!!  grin

Your gripe is one of somebody who has woken up from a slumber of deception... and you are a little bit peeved about the establishment who perpetrates it.

I understand the majority of the 'flock' aren't the ones to blame though and they know no better... so I get your reasons for not wanting to insult them. Wink

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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2013, 06:47:43 »

Directly regarding "spreading the word", I have an issue with that.

Back in college, I knew most of the international students and I would hang around with them. They have this thing set up with "host families". I thought it was a wonderful idea! The students would get to be invited over to an American family's house for special events/holidays so they would see first hand American culture. Sometimes the group of families would all get together and have parties. I thought it was AWESOME.

Then I made the mistake of asking what got them interested in becoming host families.

"We've saved 7 souls so far"

What the excrement? You are being nice to these international students to CONVERT them?

I was disgusted. Can't people do things out of the goodness in their hearts?

Apparently after the parties they would bring them to church and sometimes be a bit forceful about it. My husband came home one day with a T-Shirt saying something about Jesus saving him on it. He's atheist and really didn't care, but it irks me. After that I started talking to the international students saying "It's fine if you WANT to, but don't let ANYONE force you to change your beliefs. If they get mad at you for it, they can shove it. You're not being rude by not converting."

Makes me sad Sad
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Take to the sky, feeling so alive! Past the clouds to the Milky Way, share our secrets with the starry brigade. The stars surround us like a million fireflies. For once I see infinity... it's in your eyes.
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