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Author Topic: Luciferians like Loyola  (Read 13562 times)
Moonburn33
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2004, 21:33:28 »

okay, i am familiar with this hypothesis (because with all conspiracies, there is no real evidence.. because- and get this-...... it's a conspiracy!)

i actually believe that there is a group that runs the whole of human society- whatever their name is.  i would think that if i wanted to govern a society secretly i would never name my organization.  because society functions exactly like a giant mind in its functions.  and as we all know, you can't fight or contend with or otherwise resolve a nebulous idea that has no face.  the pyramid with the eye at its apex is more a law of nature than anything else.  all things (sentient beings) establish a heirarchy when allowed to function on their own.  it's common sense- the logical conclusion.  now. -as to whether they have our best interests at heart, i have this to say.  

they (the ones at the tippity top) can't get involved with the affairs of the rest of us- because of an ethical obligation to allow us to have our own free will(among other things).  so they let old families and clans gather wealth and do their own thing- and they "the eye of the pyramid" have to let them do so, because they choose to.  ultimately, i think that they (old families- the hyper-wealthy, those that are above money) will not be able to halt the induced psychological progression of our species.  this is what "they", the "luciferians" are counting on.

that's what i've arrived at.
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2004, 14:36:57 »

Yes, that is good - and the involvement of those at the 'tippity top' might sometimes be important. Here are some authors on the same esoteric trail that I have used to some extent - I hope to be part of a documentary they are doing though this was just offered yesterday on my first contact to them. Usually there is a lot of negotiating and research to do - but it would be good for both of our efforts to bring people to the point of knowing what is really going-down.

                                                 THE SHINING ONES:
     Philip Gardiner and his associate Gary Osborn are studying real history and they seem to be onto the Earth Energy Grid and all the same things I deal with in Diverse Druids. Here is an excerpt from the web site of these authors of a book called The Shining Ones. The see the guild zoomorphic guide of the spider in the same way I see the ‘octopus’ it would seem.
     “If you can predict simple human emotional activity, then you can control it and utilise it for your own powerful ends. If you could create a war at the peak of the emotional warring high, then you would have the advantage. Need to reduce the population of a nation, then depress the atmosphere and increase the suicide rate every 3.86 years. Of course, the real manipulation of populations is much more subtle.
     From the greatest and most powerful Shining One of the sun to the stars, the myriad shining ones, which also have an effect on us.
     Although astrology is seen as a crank belief, Michel Gauquelin, a French psychologist, placed the hypothesis that we are affected by the position of the planets at our time of birth firmly on the doorstep of science.
     He showed that the position of the stars had some indication as to what line of work one may enter later in life. This was not related to the practice of astrology or the horoscopes in the daily newspapers, but a serious, scientific data analysis. The psychologist, Hans Eysenck said, 'How ever much it may go against the grain, I think we must admit that there is something here that requires explanation'. His results, however, only seemed to work within the members of the higher professionals, the same response not being achievable with unskilled workers.
      The study of the stars goes back thousands of years. Some say 4,000 BC Sumeria was the first to do so. Others put this even earlier and say that ancient man was studying the stars 32,000 years ago. Their evidence is an engraved antler from Abri Blanchard, France, with a strange pattern of notches or calendrical phases of the moon. {Similar to the Marshack lunar calendar and a root for Ogham.}
     With all the evidence on patterns, rhythms and electromagnetism that affect our bodies, it is no wonder that modern science has taken another look at the ancient art of astrology, which has been neglected due to the widespread misuse of generic horoscopes.
     It may be that ancient man was using both his 'hidden powers' of cyclical understanding, and the tools of the earth around him.
     As long ago as 3000BC, the Indian sage, Parasar, used Natal Astrology in his work. Megalithic structures have many astrological and Earth alignments. The Pyramids map the stars, obeying the Hermetic lore of 'as above so below'. Ziggurats, temples, floor paintings, carvings and forty-mile long lines etched into the ground all convey the ancient and global belief in astrological predictions.
     The very earliest almanacs contained weather forecasts based upon astrological predictions. In the countries of Arabia, the position of the stars was consistent with the weather. The ancient priesthood would have appeared to be in the know all the time, and therefore would appear holy and godlike; it was little wonder that they became incorporated into the symbolic format and titles of the stars.
     The Babylonians, and especially people in the Middle East, studied the stars mathematically and attempted, even as long as 5,000 years ago, to scientifically log the reactions and effects of the stars. They produced a calendar and perfect measures of time, essential for a people without clocks.
     The patterns and rhythms of the stars, with their gravitational and radiation activity have enormous effects upon our universe. But could they also affect us individually and collectively? The cosmic radiation hitting and passing through our planet is millions of years old. It comes in cycles, as does the solar wind. The cycles increase and decrease, but nevertheless there is a pattern.
      Our species has been on this planet, and life has been part of the vast universe long enough for there to be some marked and observable effect.
     The Buddhist Wheel of Life reflects the understanding the ancients had of this cyclic life of ours. It depicts, amongst others, creatures of passion, stupidity and hatred, and shows how we endlessly repeat the same things, it also reveals that the ancient Buddhist, religious leaders, understood the cyclic nature of man and the universe. The Wheel culminates in the twelve links in the chain of causation on the search for truth - is this where man will also end up?
     We should be on the look out for common threads; links between civilisations and time. The web that man has spread across the many thousands of years is complex and cluttered. Historians would have us believe that various human achievements sprang up spontaneously and simultaneously across the continents. Mathematically, this is in error.
     There are too many coincidences, too many simultaneous eruptions of human culture and achievement, from the buildings that share a common purpose as solar and astral temples to the emergence of the ancient cross as a symbol.
     The reasons for the links, which are not separate accidents, will become clear later on.
     In 1957, Tom Lethbridge wrote a book called Gogmagog. He claimed that Druidism and Brahmanism were linked and shared a common origin. We will show just how close this was to the truth. Lethbridge believed that their ancient religion was somehow related to and existed for the Earth Goddess, also associated with the Moon Goddess and often cross-linked. This is true in that She was one of the deities worshipped by the ancient priesthood, to whom the Brahmins and Druids were related. The Earth/Moon Goddess, or Mother, had many names, Gaia or Ge, Isis, Astarte and eventually culminating in the Virgin Mary or even Mary Magdalene.
     There are many belief systems in the world, but they all come from one basic and undeniable core, invented and evolved separately by the Shining Ones. A secret ancient group who utilised the subtle cyclic energies and patterns of the globe against the masses, for their own personal power and for the greater good of a singular religious organisation. This religious organisation evolved its power base over vast periods of time. Individuals who recognised and understood the power of the mind and held the power for themselves in a growing group of religious leaders.” (2)
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2004, 14:36:57 »

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Jarthur
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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2004, 01:19:12 »

The reason it is easy to accept the idea of Loyola as a Luciferian is that no alchemist, no rosicrucian, no saint, reaches that level of spiritual enlightenment by being a goody two shoes.  He or she does it through a hard fought battle.

We exist in a world of amazing potential because we are in a state of the knowledge of polarity (the knowledge of good and evil). Only in the physical state as we know it now is it possible to fully experience that principle. This is what the "lucifer spirits" have brought about.

Since it is a principle, having black and white, up and down, yesterday and tomorrow,  also means having life and death, good and evil.  Birth and death would have little significance if we remembered how we were before we were born and knew how we will be after we die. It would all just be one continuum. The contrast is what permits us the degree of conscious awareness that we have.

Being a Luciferian essentially means accepting this polarity, honoring it, harnessing it.

This is the means by which it is possible for the art of alchemy to exist. That, in fact, is the reason that alchemy has been the force it has been in western civilizations. The darkness is greatest in the west because of western civilization's material success. Nowhere in the world do people have their feet as firmly set on the ground as they do here. A deeper black brings a brighter white.

This is done today as it always has been using the language of the birds not only described but fluently spoken by Fulcanelli and many others whose writings are available everywhere.

Secret societies, so called, operate on the same principle.  The techniques used make use of these conditions to bring about something that would otherwise be impossible.  Certainly initiates have and do wield immense power. That power is balanced. The black and the white are in a delicate dance of balance.

This is not something that exists because of anyone or any group's evil intentions.  Looking to the outside to put a finger on the cad responsible is a waste of time.  It exists as a necessary condition of our state, a state that must be overcome by each individually. One is not a member of the "ignorant and huddled masses" unless one believes and allows oneself to be.

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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2004, 05:45:04 »

Dear Jarthur

There is much truth in what you say and yet the time for power over others through secrets is past. To continue to act in the manner of those who would not share their learning or develop ethics for the society at large - puts the world in ever increasing danger.

There is a great deal to learn from Bloom's Lucifer Principle and Fulcanelli can send one to a lot of coded and fantastic searches. St. Germain is a De Medicis and Rothschild agent that turned over the Templar spy network to them. Do we need spies making the rich richer and abusing the free potential for all mankind to create and not simply follow those who enjoy getting more of their vaunted ONE PIE?
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Tayesin
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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2004, 08:29:37 »

Hi,
It seems a lot of emphasis is put on the details of mechanics that have brought the christian belief system to where we see it today, a pale and insignificant shadow of itself. (fortunately)  

That historically, people have controlled the dissemination of information is no longer debatable, we know that this has been the main force for control of the masses since time out of mind. So we should not be the slightest bit surprised to find the founding fathers of christianity also used this mechanism.

Does it really matter what happened way back when ?  No. Can we now take any of the people who were responsible for the controlling behaviour of religion to task for their actions ?  No.  So why do we need to rehash it all in intelligent discussion, do we need another book about it anyway ? No.  (my opinion)

Do we really need to know which recorded history of Jesus' travels in the world to study at various Mystery Schools is the correct one ?  No.  Isn't it enough to know he was recorded in other coutries shortly after his death and supposed ressurrection ? Yes it is, because it illustrates how the masses were duped and brainwashed to believe the BIG LIE. (that he died for our sins) Another control mechanism.

And can someone tell me how and when Jesus became God ?  It is something that has bugged me now for a little while, this ridiculous assertion that the man Jesus was/is the Creator God.  What utter crappola !  That is merely Dogma with a capitol D and Brainwash with a upper case B, as well.

All we need to know is that all religions are man made, and therefore extremely fallible..  that it is now time for Sharing the gems of truth instead of aligning with any Belief-System...  that we are not the insignificant little souls the religionists would have us believe.. that it is We who are the powerful beings in our own right, irrespective of what anyone else tells us.

A slight change of tack here....
I do find it interesting that the Hebrews entered Egypt with the first couple of books of the Bible already a part of their belief system.  They learned the stories from the Sumerian civilization who had recorded what the 'gods' told them about the creative forces that made our world and established the solar system the way it is now, as well as the physical creation of the original Homo-Sapien and then Homo-Sapien-Sapien (Us).

Within the stories the Hebrew's had, the 'god' who was responsible for the physical creation of the body was seen as the bad guy because he was told by the Elohim to allow his creations to be destroyed, and he refused to accept the order.   He was then depicted as a snake in the Sumerian literature because of the symbol he used for his place of creation... the Caduceus, which we use today in our health sector.

Give that little gem a few hundred years in the hands of religous controllers and it turned into the illustration of Satan.  A minor twist to be sure, but one with massive repercussions. In this simple way, the whole history of the christian religion can be seen as being opposed to the spiritual growth(Remembering)of us humans. No more needs to be said then, because the action of such a doing says it all.

While R.B.Baird's assertion that no Druids exist today is correct in it's scope.. it is only this way because of the destructive nature of the Christian religion and the Roman's who preceeded it's coming... which absolutely set out to wipe from the world all and any traces of of what we call Paganism.  What could not be destroyed was usurped, taken into the church's folds and ressurrected as Christian Sacred places, etc.

Those who attempt to live according to their perception of Druidism should not be assaulted by the revelation that they too are a bland shadow of the belief system/lifestyle it once was.  In their own way they are trying to bring things full circle to a more sensible scenario of humans living with the forces of nature and the energies that surround us.  That in itself is honourable.

And lastly, IMHO, I think it hideous to come to this forum, post articles based on your specialised field of research then assert an elitist attitude of personal greatness and knowledge.  Then be rather bad-mannered to other forum members who disagree with your perception.  Dear brother, you are undoubtedly well studied, but those manners need some attention.

Love Always. [Smiley]

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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2004, 08:29:37 »



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Lighthouse
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2004, 11:35:08 »

Throughout history, ALL religions have taken bits and pieces of the preexisting ones in order to get buy in from the people who practiced these religions.  After successfully brainwashing people, they would then destroy the preexisting temples and place their own on those very same spots.  The church is not STUPID!  They are cunning and manipulative but not STUPID!  They knew than as they know now that in order to make a new religion more paletable to people, they needed to incorporate some of the old into the new.  

Narrow Fundimentalist thinking (of any kind) disallows any free thought and is an example of the exact brainwashing that the church was out to accomplish and they are good at it in some cases. Woo Hoo!!! They've got that brainwashing technique down!!!  And still they are repressing free thinking because so many people believe that the myths the church spoon feeds them is the ABSOLUTE truth. They also believe that if one thinks for themselves, it is the work of the DEVIL[}:)]. Fundimentalist thinking proclaims,"What I say is right, I have all the answers because it's in MY spiritual text and since you disagree with me, you are going to hell!"  What horsesh*t!!!  Oh and by the way, That is the definition of self Righteousness --- which is a sin... To proclaim to have all the answers and only your answers are right.  If you proclaim to not have all the answers you are at least still open to new ideas and learning... ever evolving.  It's when you claim to have all the answers that you stop growing.

OF COURSE Christianity is based on other preexisting religions.  I have heard the Therory that Jarthur stated:
quote:
Catholicism has a suprising number of similarities to the Sun worship religion.

"Long before the advent of Jesus, Mithra was said to have been born of a virgin mother, in a cave, at the time of Christmas, and died on a cross at Easter. Baptism was practised, and the sign of the cross was made on the foreheads of all newly-baptised converts. Mithra was considered to be the saviour of the world, conferring on his followers an eternal life in Heaven, and, similar to the story of Jesus, he died to save all others, provided that they were his followers " http://members.aol.com/MercStG/ChriMithPage1.html

And I too have found it a bit too "coincidental" for it to be mere Coincidence.  

It might also be an interesting fact for you to know that Constantine himself was Pagan and that in order to unite his empire and cease the civil religious unrest he renounced his own religion, adopted Christianity, the new religion, and declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.  

Kerri
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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2004, 14:51:25 »

Dear T

The assertions you arrogantly make in questioning my approach are mitigated by your own admission I am right. You also ask some basic questions such as when did Jesus (an amalgam) become God? This is when Pauline (Roman) Christianity became ascendant around the 5th C. and the Arians and Gnostics (even the Celtic) Churches were made heretics or under actual frontal attack as the Libraries they had from pre-Christian times were destroyed.

I can see no greater influence on our present unethical state of the world than that achieved by religions and especially the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic cult. You say we need not know the matter of their deceits and I say only through knowing will we be free of the constructs and tricks or astral traps they have CONSTRUCTED. The laws of our nations and the very existence of those nations is predicated on their Manifest Destiny lies. The courts are making huge awards for the destruction of prior culture (Canada's SUpreme Court recently regarding the Indians)as they also charge an Indian leader for saying some truth about the Jews wrecking a Holocaust upon the Indians. Most people including rabbis do not even know what a Jew is.

You exhibit this as you refer to Hebrews and Sumer and early books of the Bible. The Father of Biblical Archaeology has no difficulty proving 'the Bible is a Phoenician literary legacy'. Sumer was colonized out of the Byblos (Dilmun) corporate trading venture of the Phownicians on the Persian Gulf where recent wars are rife. Hebrew as a language is a sacerdotal Phoenician Keltic code of the builders of the Great Pyramid (arch-tectons are like Arch-Druids - see The Septuagint refer to the family of Jesus in this word that means architect).

It is fine to accuse the messenger who does the work you obviously have not done of being arrogant. What pray tell does it do for your ego to make such an accusation? Are you speaking for others or trying to make yourself seem important? Might I suggest you learn and listen or read befre making further negative comments or else do some research and find some errors so that your audience might be impressed.
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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2004, 15:00:42 »

Dear L

YES! I too liked that quote from Jarthur. Constantine never did convert and his kids went so far as to boil other relatives till dead as well as make Constantine a God in the normal Roman so-called pagan manner. But those Romans were just Empire-Builders and then they started a HOLY EMPEROR. That is non-sense on the very face of it. How can one be HOLY and wreck havoc as an Emperor? Unfortunately that is just the same as our present Emperor GeorgeII and his speaking to God while having the War on Terra.

The Romano-British Empire today has the US (which they have always controlled) taking the lead for the Holy Alliance that seeks like the Treaty of Tordesillas clearly stated - to dominate the whole world which they only allow lesser people to hold a lease on the land. WE must throw off the shackles of those who maintain power and seek to convince us there is only ONE PIE. We must learn to co-operate in Brotherhood - which is the concept of Iesa that Jesus is said to have accepted as his titular mission. I do not believe he would have been so 'nuts' as to try to say he was a Messiah (Christos).
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Lighthouse
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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2004, 21:01:34 »

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Bruce Baird

Dear T

The assertions you arrogantly make in questioning my approach are mitigated by your own admission I am right.


Ahem...

Who's the one being arrogant?

K
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Tayesin
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2004, 22:06:30 »

RBB,
I did not join this thread to make some vain attempt to try and prove you wrong.  Your work is obviously top notch, and this is borne out in the fact that you do have a number of books published.  Yet this does not make a person the highest authority on a subject.  Witness Sitchin's apparent supremacy in his field, yet there are those who also worked with the British Museum to decipher the Sumerian Tablets who do claim that he has added considerably to the basic translations.
One such person is a very dear friend of mine who took him to task for his additions.

"You say we need not know the matter of their deceits and I say only through knowing will we be free of the constructs and tricks or astral traps they have CONSTRUCTED."

My initial reaction to your original post here, was based on a simple premise.  We humans do waste valuable life-time and effort in searching out Details that we really do not need to know for our personal spiritual growth.  We like to make things far more difficult than they need to be.  And I see, in my opinion, that while you enjoy the work you do, and the rewards it provides, the majority could easily come under the heading of stuff we do not need to know the details of.  One or two basic facts to show the controlling nature of the united forces behind our being kept in the dark from truth is all that is required. Again this is only my opinion RBB.

My statement about the Hebrews going to Egypt with the first books of the bible, and the inclusion of the twist that caused the good guy to be represented to us as Satan, is meant primarily for the average reader.  Hence the non-inclusion of the information you added.  

One thing I have learned is that information needs to be directed at the 'lowest common denominator' for the messages to be comprehensible to the majority. Hence the directive of simplicity.

"It is fine to accuse the messenger who does the work you obviously have not done of being arrogant."

It is your approach that I found arrogant, and the way you responded to those who questioned you or offered any form of opposition.

"What pray tell does it do for your ego to make such an accusation?"

It does nothing for my Ego, as the ego is not what responded to your thread.

"Are you speaking for others or trying to make yourself seem important?"

Neither.  I do not need to SEEM important my friend, as one of the few thousand people today who actually can and does help people to come to experience their Higher-Self without the clutter of belief-systems, my work is important.

"Might I suggest you learn and listen or read befre making further negative comments or else do some research and find some errors so that your audience might be impressed."

My ego seeks not to find errors in your work RBB, neither do I seek to impress an audience.  I find it interesting that so many people see what another says as 'negative statements'.  This is an indictation of a deeper issue.

"WE must throw off the shackles of those who maintain power and seek to convince us there is only ONE PIE. We must learn to co-operate in Brotherhood - which is the concept of Iesa that Jesus is said to have accepted as his titular mission. I do not believe he would have been so 'nuts' as to try to say he was a Messiah (Christos)."

Agreed, he did not accept the title of Messiah.  I consider his 'mission' was to open peoples eyes to the sameness of our nature and condition, and to help others to realize that it is we who are the great Spirits in our own right.  So the refusal of the Messiah title dovetails nicely into his possible desire for non-attachment to any Belief-System, including the traditional messianic legacy of the Jews.

Lastly, it is my perception that each of us can and does have the ability to Remember exactly who and what we are as Souls, and that the means to this awareness are very simple.  Hence my attitude of being at variance with the complications of historical knowledge, the pursuit of it and the presentation of it in the public domain.

Love Always. [Smiley]
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« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2004, 03:52:35 »

Dear T

A thoroughly reasonable response and one I agree with on a personal level. I tried to avoid the telling of real histry and my PURPOSE for most of my life. There are (as yet) so 'rewards' and lots of nay-sayers who continue to promote the wars and rife that are so common due to a lack of real history.

If all people were like you - I would be FREE!
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Tayesin
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« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2004, 10:21:50 »

Hi Robert,
I for one would love to hear and/or read about your purpose, and personal life story, perhaps that may be a subject for a new book ?

Agreed about the nay-sayers ! In my work there is a lot of opposition from the establishment within the New Age Industry.  Nothing much has changed where we humans are concerned, most people will only share their gifts for a suitably high fee, which is at loggerheads to my personal ethics.  This is the major problem from the NAI, who do not want the current system to change as they would then be needing to look for other ways to make their little fortunes.  

And, you are free Robert.  You are free to choose, to experience, to walk against the ways of the current world system and to do something different.  You are free to help others see the light you bring with the truths you write about. An ancient Druid maxim states, " The Truth Against the World"  So very apt, even in this day and age.

I need to apologize for jumping on you with my first post in this thread, it was un-loving of me to have done so, and for that my friend I am sorry.

Love Always. [Smiley]
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« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2004, 12:43:28 »

Dear T

You need not apologize. There was some truth in your words and constructive criticism is always welcome. We seem to agree a great deal and I have indeed written many biographical books - I think you would like the wrap around of the Frabato bio I did called Hitler vs. Frabato and 'The Charm of Making'. People on the Path (My Meetings with Remarkable Men) is available for free along with any other e-book purchased till month end at W-M. So you would get two for about $5.

Agreed about the NAI too - and my book Cherokee People (Will Return) addresses that.

As to the New Age strife and infighting - it pains me even more than the hegemony and its foul effluent.
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« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2004, 15:10:00 »

I can make an argument that I'm the rugged individualist here because I'm Catholic.  The Catholic Church today is not like the "institution" or "establishment" it was when it persecuted Galileo, when popes, however being the Vicar of Christ, were hypocrites.  The Church promotes scholasticism for cryin' out loud, St. Thomas Aquinas being the brilliant philosopher/theologian that he was.  God gave us our free will, and we chose to eat fruit.  There are privileges and yet also consequences with that choice.

And as far as choosing to create more problems or prevent/mend them, the Church seems the best way, and I believe it is the Way.  There are a million conspiracy theories a million different ways with the conspirators having a million different names.  Luciferians, Jesuits, Patriots, Illuminati, Shining Ones, Aliens, US Govt, Euro Royalty, Maitreya.  Perhaps these millions of conspiracy theories are meant to confuse us and make us stray and err?

I believe that the first Deceiver was the serpent, Satan.  Who is like God?  Do you think you can make yourself like God in your lifetime?  That you can eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and thus become like God?  If you say that it's the other way around, that God lies and the serpent tells the truth, then show me how you are like God.

If we tear down all that came before us and call them liars, who are we to believe?  Would you lie to your own son or daughter?  I accept what has been handed down to me by my fathers and their fathers before them.

All can be doubted, and what then of Doubt Itself?  Is it possible to doubt Doubt Itself?  I would say not, since then we wouldn't know if we're doubting it or not, would we?

Consequently, we become paralyzed in thought, by having no knowledge.  I say that we must believe in order to grow.  I would rather believe the Church than the million splinter groups.

Humility is the answer and the killer of Pride, the first sin.
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« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2004, 18:11:43 »

You can make an argument for that in certain places where people are uniformed and do not care about the lack of individuality that the dogma and laws put in place by the hegemony of church and state has brought about.

If you have a dog-ma what happens to your kar-ma?
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Anonymous
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« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2004, 03:44:07 »

Eh?  I didn't understand that.

As for karma, I think it's taking the "golden rule" to the next level.  Not just "treat other how you want to be treated" but basically what you do to others you do to yourself.  And, it fits in with Christian thought I suppose.  The next life is based on what you do in this life.  If you make life hell for other people, you just may find yourself in hell.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2004, 03:51:01 »

Ah, wait, I understand it now.  You say that I am not an individual because I belong to the Catholic Church.  Do you think that I am not allowed to think differently than the Catholic Church?

How much belief in individuality do you need when you consider the Church's pro-life stance?  By allowing the unborn baby to have a chance at life, we are promoting it's individuality.  If we chose for it, and thought for it, we'd conclude that it's life is not worth living.

Basically, in order to properly and plausibly present a conspiracy theory, or any theory that goes against the Establishment, you need to disprove the Establishment's position beyond reasonable doubt.  By calling them liars is just a lot of hot air.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2004, 06:49:34 »

Yes, that is true. Name calling is pretty useless. And in fact I think many of those in my lineage have indeed tried hard to educate the masses as they did the things the paradigm sought to do. The Templars for example (Those given the Papal Passport) ended feudalism after the Church slow-roasted their leader Jacques de Molay. Thus I say it is those who do the name-calling and do not engage in proof or fact are the real conspiracy theorists. They imagine they feel big by association with powerful groups.

It is also true that Catholicism includes every variety of belief - hell they even have voudou practitioners (Santeria) that they say are Catholic.

But when you suggest you are the 'only rugged individualist' - PSSHAHH!

That is the most ludicrous statement you could possibly make.

As to Karma being Christian - yes in some way. It was taken out of the dogma around the time it became mere Roman Empire as they wielded an increasing control over their former conquered lands without even needing a full time army or having to share the spoils with the Italian citizenry. It was called The Law of Retribution.

Do you know that the Pope said there is no heaven or Hell in 1999 as he apologized "for two millennia of heinous acts."

Yeshua was a researcher of truth and the churchians who had him killed (Roman agents) have put foul deeds and words behind him or his name. As Muggeridge said - if Jesus were alive today he would be drugged or imprisoned.

Real individuals who actually 'look within' to see why Jesus (if he existed) said what he said in John 10:34 {Did you check it out?} are not going to accept the word of man and his priestly manipulative minions.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2004, 18:17:40 »

Eyo.  I'm working on the John 10:34 interpretation, but thanks for bringing it up since I've never seen it before.  Very interesting...  I am curious as to what Old Testament Jesus is referring to.

As for JP2 saying that there's no heaven or hell... I find that to be very, very far fetched.  It's against the Catechism, and a main eschatological teaching.  If you could provide me with exactly where you got that info, I'll be happy to look at it.  And for apologizing, yes, JP2 has apologized to quite a few people quite a few times.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  John Paul II is one of the best popes we've had in a while, as far as I know.
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Shinobi
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« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2004, 19:05:27 »

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« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 03:20:55 by Shinobi » Logged
Anonymous
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« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2004, 21:30:19 »

Dear Shinobi

You say correctly:

they don’t have physical ‘places’ in which they take up space.

I say that is not what they have been saying for the 'two millennia of heinous acts' and that actually means they do not EXIST in the way most people have been programmed to think of them. The head Catholic in Toronto when posed the issue of what the Pope had said was so disingenuous as to say the Pope is a feeble old man. Of course as a Luciferian (means Jesuit and Alumbrados if you do the research) his kind always knew Hel of the Druidic or Keltic Tree was not a bad place or anything like Hell.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2004, 21:34:00 »

Dear Antonius

There is a passage in Psalms that mirrors John 10:34 and one other in the normal Bibles (of which there are thousands of supposedly Divine Scriptural interpretations). If you go into the apocrypha like the Gospel of Thomas which the church tried to destroy you find a lot more of the real Source of what Jesus (Appolonius, Issa and others of the amalgam) studied.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2004, 21:42:31 »

Why have those who arranged these horrors tried to blame the Jews (and in an indirect manner, all 'sinners') for the death of Jesus? He did not claim to be a co-equal member of the Holy Trinity. It wasn't the Jews who 'killed our Saviour'. John Ralston Saul says this about the whole matter
     "HOLY TRINITY-CHRISTIAN     A pre-alchemist alchemist concept developed by early Christian administrators to soften the hard-edged simplicity of straight monotheism.
     The three-in-one/one-in-three mystery of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost {That the beatniks called 'Laddio, Daddio and Spook'.} made tritheism official. The subsequent almost-deification of the Virgin Mary made it quatrotheism {And raised un-natural 'virginity' or possible non-sense such as immaculate conceptions, which fathers must have loved and priests certainly benefit from, to heights of increasing obscenity!}. Twelve Disciples as semi-deities then made it sextusdecitheism. Finally, cart-loads of saints raised to quarter-deification turned Christianity into plain, old-fashioned polytheism. By the time of the Crusades, it was the most polytheistic religion ever to have existed, with the possible exception of Hinduism. This untenable contradiction between the assertion of monotheism and the reality of polytheism was dealt with {And this is the MOST important observation of a technique known in psychology as 'projection of a pluperfect paranoid' or the 'BIG LIE' of alphabet soup agencies and 'black ops'; the less organized criminals like the Mafia call it a 'frame-up'.} by accusing other religions of the Christian fault. The Church - Catholic and later Protestant - turned aggressively on the two most clearly monotheistic religions in view {Also they began at least 700 years of war, A CRUSADE! against the remnants of the Kelts in Ireland.) - Judaism and Islam - and persecuted them as heathen or pagan. ..These pagans must therefore be converted, conquered {ego 'Manifest Destiny'} and/or killed for their own good in order that they may benefit from the singularity of the Holy Trinity, plus appendages.
     HOLY TRINITY - POST CHRISTIAN So far Nietzsche has been wrong about GOD. We have not managed to become Him in His place. Instead we have replaced God with a yet more abstract divinity based upon pure rational power... Organization or structure replaced the Father, TECHNOLOGY displaced the Son and the Holy Ghost gave way to information. The new priesthood was made up of technocrats. As the etymology of the word 'technocrat' indicates, from the beginning they were to be specialists in power... And they would stand guard over information." (5)
     The fears and apathy of average people are as much to blame for this history of managed and 'guarded information' that records the acts of bad people. ‘We are all our brother’s keepers’ is not just an idle platitude. The Druidic concept called IESA or 'The Brotherhood of Man' apprehended the Cosmic Thought Field of Faraday and Tesla or the 'Cosmic Soup' of Deepak Chopra. NASA scientists have just announced that Life is Everywhere including microbes in outer space. They talk about cell membrane formation that makes we wonder if these are conscious connected 'info packets'(Tesla) or 'templates' (Teilhard de Chardin) from which energy can create in a manner more akin to ancient creationist theories of the supposed pagans.
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Shinobi
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« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2004, 22:09:43 »

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« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 03:19:32 by Shinobi » Logged
Anonymous
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« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2004, 03:29:23 »

Dear Shinobi

The quote from the alchemist Aquinas should be taken in conjunction with the Augustinian Credo that Bobik of Notre Dame still writes about and which is designed to make all things seem possible even though false. I could quote him for you on this matter. In any event it does not change the fact that the church has been promoting Hell sinse the time of Dante Aligheri as a physical place or a real place in line with Heaven rather than the Quantum Many Worlds Interpretation. I can show where Catholic scholars like St. Robert Bellarmine also presaged this kind of thing.

The matter of the Toronto affair is from an ex-roomate of mine who wrote letters to the Archbishop here and then went to meet him. This roomate grew up in Poland and knew Carol (Pope John II) personally and met him when he escaped Poland as well. This roomate and I agree the current Pope is a breath of fresh air despite his anti-woman stance on things like abortion and priesthood issues. In fact if you read what I have said here you will find I am not so sure Malachi Martin (advisor to three recent Popes and Vatican Professor) is not right. BECAUSE it is the stupidity of average people who make the world what it is.

However, I do raise appropriate questions about that. But again - if you know what a Baird is (my last name) you will see I am quite into the Heliopolitan or Luciferian mix. I have been accredited as an alchemist by top Rosicrucians of the Christian Mystery Schools. So when I say something you interpret as being bad about the Jesuit/Alumbrados/Illuminati you should know I think they have done a lot of good things and it is not they who are as much the problem as a possible solution to the problems. Those solutions require understanding the forces of power that have historically been held secret.
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