Scientific Miracles in the holy Quran?

[Jeehad]

The Holy Quran is a revelation from God almighty to his prophet Muhammed pbuh. The thing is, during the dark ages where logic and reason had collapsed into a period of corruption, THE QURAN STATES SCIENTIFIC SIGNS which were later on discovered and verified thousands of years later. I ask who could have come up with these? No one except God almighty

http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/scienceinthekoran.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/proofofgodsexistence.htm

[Mustardseed]

And I say you and the Koran are wrong . In my opinion and experience those who preach the Koran as a fundemental unquestionable truth are bigots and not seeking the TRUTH , but instead trying to convince and controll unstable minds, not unlike certain fundementalists Christians. If you want to debate this issue please be my guest

Regards Mustardseed

[Goober]

And I say you and the Koran are wrong .

And yet you don't give reason.

[Mydral]

Nastradamus and DaVinci were not Muslims and they also talked about technology (especially Nostradamus) which was not yet invented

I am reading that stuff now... sounds better than the 7 days, but still.. in 1000 years we will find out that someone travelled back in time and wrote it  , joking haha

Look there is just overinterpritation:
"The ejaculated drop"
During that time the culture was male dominant. Everyone saw semen, they linked it to birth... and so since its male dominant society everything comes from the male which means it comes from God.

They just give too much meaning to the words. All over history people correctly assumed things about science and so on before it was prooven. For example weather prediction.

[Mustardseed]

My first argument would go something like this.

If we follow your line of arguments, Muhammad was having a revelation from God because he foresaw certain scientific issues. However he was not the only one who "saw" the future and who did not believe that "the earth was flat". Many folks did.

It is in my opinion illogical to alledge, that just because certain statements,  later to be confirmed as fact, are found in the  pages of the Koran, it is subsequently written by God.

If that was the case anyone who makes statements, not presently understood by the masses, would be another Mohammad. Bill Gates, Einstein, Hawkins etc etc all have made statements later to be confirmed as facts, they would fall in this category.

The ability to forsee the future, then becomes the definition of a Miracle and a subsequent connection to God.

Regards Mustardseed 

[Doringo]

I don't want to rain on your parade but the idea that a child develops in the womb is not a groundbreaking sceintific discovery..

[CFTraveler]

Frankly, most of what I read is the modern interpretation of ancient writings, using scientific knowledge as the basis for that understanding.  In other words, it's like saying that when the Bible says "Let there be light" It means that after the big bang when Hydrogen atoms were formed and split into Helium they released photons, so that proves that the biblical account of creation is literally true.
A bit of a stretch, if you ask me.

And btw, who is 'We'?

[Mustardseed]

The Holy Quran is a revelation from God almighty to his prophet Muhammed pbuh. The thing is, during the dark ages where logic and reason had collapsed into a period of corruption, THE QURAN STATES SCIENTIFIC SIGNS which were later on discovered and verified thousands of years later. I ask who could have come up with these? No one except God almighty

http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/scienceinthekoran.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/proofofgodsexistence.htm

My second line of argument is the following. If there is error in the scientific signs you claim the Koran contains, it is subsequently a fallacy. Consider this argument found at Chick publications.



One of the questions which puzzled the ancient Arabs was, "Where did the sun go when night time came?" The Qur'an gave them Allah's answer.

He [i.e. Zul-qarnain] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water.
(Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86)

We agree with Muslim scholars that Zul-qarnain refers to Alexander the Great (see Yusuf Ali's appendix on this subject in his translation of the Qur'an). According to this surah, Alexander the Great traveled west until he found out what happened to the sun. It went down into and under the murky waters of a pond. When it was completely covered by the water, darkness fell upon the earth.

To the early Muslims, this surah gave the divine answer as to why darkness fell when the sun set in the West. They assumed that the sun, like the moon, was the size perceived by the human eye, about the size of a basketball. Darkness came when with a mighty hissing roar it went down under the dark waters of a pond. They boldly and proudly proclaimed that this marvelous answer proved that the Qur'an was indeed the Word of God.

Today, modern Muslims are quite embarrassed by this passage and try to ignore it or to quickly dismiss it as poetry. But the passage is not part of a poem. Thus it cannot be dismissed as figurative language or poetic license. In the context, it is part of a historical narrative which relates several historical incidences in the life of Alexander the Great.

The mistake was based on the erroneous assumption that the earth was flat. The authors of the Qur'an did not know that the earth was a sphere which revolved around the sun.

The reader must ask himself if he is prepared to believe and to defend the Qur'an in this passage. Either the sun sets in a pond or it doesn't. It is either one way or the other. There can be no middle ground, no compromise, no evading the issue. If you agree with us that the sun is shining on the other side of the earth and thus it does not go down into murky water, then you must also agree with us that the Qur'an contains scientific errors.

"So what?" you ask. "Who cares!" you cry. Only those who are brave enough to seek the truth will care. Those who are intellectually lazy or dishonest will close their eyes and pretend to see nothing.

It only takes one error to disprove the Qur'an. That's right. Just one little error and the whole book goes down in defeat! You have just discovered one irrefutable error in the Qur'an. What are you going to do about it?

The above is found on the internet cut and pasted. It is easily obtained if desired.

Regards Mustardseed

[Mustardseed]

A few more thoughts..........

The following is a brief list of some of the strange and absurd teachings of Muhammad which I feel are in contradiction with modern science What do YOU think.

1. Adam was 60 cubits tall! (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 543) Then how tall was Eve? If they were that tall, how did we get here?

2. Muhammad was a dog hater. He thought that angels could not enter a house if a dog was there and that black dogs were devils. Thus he ordered dogs to be killed and forbid the selling of dogs. (Bukhari vol- IV, nos. 539, 540; Muslim vol. I, nos. 551, 552; vol. II, nos. 3803, 3829)

3. Satan lives in the nose over night. He can be flushed out if you snort water up and then out the nose. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 516; Muslim vol. I, no. 462) How big is Satan? Is he in everyone's nose? Is he omnipresent?

4. Muhammad forbade the game of chess! (Muslim vol. IV, no. 5612) This makes no sense to me.

5. People turn into rats, pigs and monkeys. (Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 524, 627; Muslim vol. IV, no. 7135). Abraham's father was turned into an animal (Bukhari vol. IV, no.569)

6. Muslims have one intestine while non-Muslims have seven! (Muslim vol. 111, no. 5113-5115)

7. If you lift up your eyes towards heaven while praying, your eyes will be snatched out! (Muslim vol. III, nos. 862-863)
8. One wing of a fly has poison but the other wing has the antidote to it. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 537)

9. We should drink camel urine as a medicine. (Bukhari vol. I, no. 234)
10 He was asked to explain why a child will look like one parent as opposed to looking like the other. He claimed that Gabriel came and gave the inspired answer. See Bukhari vol. IV: no. 546. So, we are dealing with revelation and not just his personal opinion. He said that the child will look like which parent reaches his or her sexual climax first. The study of genetics and DNA forever disproves this idea.

Again the above is freely available on the net

Regards Mustardseed

[Goober]

3. Satan lives in the nose over night. He can be flushed out if you snort water up and then out the nose. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 516; Muslim vol. I, no. 462) How big is Satan? Is he in everyone's nose? Is he omnipresent?

LOL. That's hilarious, thank you for showing me that. 

[Jeehad]

Nastradamus and DaVinci were not Muslims and they also talked about technology (especially Nostradamus) which was not yet invented

I am reading that stuff now... sounds better than the 7 days, but still.. in 1000 years we will find out that someone travelled back in time and wrote it  , joking haha

Look there is just overinterpritation:
"The ejaculated drop"
During that time the culture was male dominant. Everyone saw semen, they linked it to birth... and so since its male dominant society everything comes from the male which means it comes from God.

They just give too much meaning to the words. All over history people correctly assumed things about science and so on before it was prooven. For example weather prediction.

Actually, If you read the Quran your gonna notice that the egg is also apart of the process. Allah sbwt explains creation step by step. The Quran tells us to treat men and women as equal human beings with equal rights. This was the revolutionary movement of the Islamic era during the time of Muhammed. I read nostradamus's work, rather fascinating indeed. Although, there are errors in his predictions and work, therefore considering him to have had divine intervention is completely false. The Quran remains perfect in any shape way or form. You can argue maybe the Muslims got the information from the greeks or egyptians? But lets be real here, this was during the dark ages where the collapse of civil morals laws was prevalent. And Society itself focused on primitive ways of analyzing the world. Is it really logical that the Arabs traveled on there caravan around the world to put together scientific pieces through "artifacts"? Its possible but is it logical? Also considering the Greeks themselves made MANY errors and so did the Egyptians and Mayans. Why did the Islamic movement truly flourish? The reason is that the Meccan society was overruled with injustices. Women were treated badly, kids were killed needlessly, wine was consumed abruptly, ignorance dominated the social structure of the society. When the revelation came to Muhammed Allah commanded him to preach out against racism,injsutice,slavery,murder. This is is the grass root level in which Islam functions at. So for you to say Islam is racist is absolutely false. Also please keep this thread with actual proof regarding these matters.


Greek errors:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/GreekScience/Students/Ellen/EarlyGkAstronomy.html
Learn about the society:
http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/muhammed.htm

[Jeehad]

Frankly, most of what I read is the modern interpretation of ancient writings, using scientific knowledge as the basis for that understanding.  In other words, it's like saying that when the Bible says "Let there be light" It means that after the big bang when Hydrogen atoms were formed and split into Helium they released photons, so that proves that the biblical account of creation is literally true.
A bit of a stretch, if you ask me.

And btw, who is 'We'?

You clearly havn't read the verses If i create a book 1400 years ago explaining he developmental stages within a baby is very significant especially in precise order ^^ .

In Arabic language We is referred to as someone of higher power just like Vous in french.

[Jeehad]

A few more thoughts..........

The following is a brief list of some of the strange and absurd teachings of Muhammad which I feel are in contradiction with modern science What do YOU think.

1. Adam was 60 cubits tall! (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 543) Then how tall was Eve? If they were that tall, how did we get here?

2. Muhammad was a dog hater. He thought that angels could not enter a house if a dog was there and that black dogs were devils. Thus he ordered dogs to be killed and forbid the selling of dogs. (Bukhari vol- IV, nos. 539, 540; Muslim vol. I, nos. 551, 552; vol. II, nos. 3803, 3829)

3. Satan lives in the nose over night. He can be flushed out if you snort water up and then out the nose. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 516; Muslim vol. I, no. 462) How big is Satan? Is he in everyone's nose? Is he omnipresent?

4. Muhammad forbade the game of chess! (Muslim vol. IV, no. 5612) This makes no sense to me.

5. People turn into rats, pigs and monkeys. (Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 524, 627; Muslim vol. IV, no. 7135). Abraham's father was turned into an animal (Bukhari vol. IV, no.569)

6. Muslims have one intestine while non-Muslims have seven! (Muslim vol. 111, no. 5113-5115)

7. If you lift up your eyes towards heaven while praying, your eyes will be snatched out! (Muslim vol. III, nos. 862-863)
8. One wing of a fly has poison but the other wing has the antidote to it. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 537)

9. We should drink camel urine as a medicine. (Bukhari vol. I, no. 234)
10 He was asked to explain why a child will look like one parent as opposed to looking like the other. He claimed that Gabriel came and gave the inspired answer. See Bukhari vol. IV: no. 546. So, we are dealing with revelation and not just his personal opinion. He said that the child will look like which parent reaches his or her sexual climax first. The study of genetics and DNA forever disproves this idea.

Again the above is freely available on the net

Regards Mustardseed

Lol this amuses me:P Because those are not divine quotes taken from the Quran itself. They are taken from hadiths(the "biography" of muhammed). Muslims believe in specific hadiths which have a chain of narration dated back to reliable sources. Omar bin Khatib once said that if a hadith contradicts the Quran it is completely false. I just wanted to give you a brief introduction upon this matter. Firstly, "Adam was 60 cubits tall! (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 543) Then how tall was Eve? If they were that tall, how did we get here? "

See you expect people to believe in astral projection but yet you find it hard to believe in the sizes of early human beings? To clear this up scientists stated that the first human beings in fact we were VERY large people, natural selection and genetic influences have made that human cope with the surroundings and environment. Note the Quran agrees with Partial evolution which is another miracle in the holy quran. " Muhammad was a dog hater. He thought that angels could not enter a house if a dog was there and that black dogs were devils. Thus he ordered dogs to be killed and forbid the selling of dogs. (Bukhari vol- IV, nos. 539, 540; Muslim vol. I, nos. 551, 552; vol. II, nos. 3803, 3829) " Actually Muhammad wasn't a dog hater.Theres a story that goes he saw a dog which was very thirsty so he went to a well filled up his shoe and gave the dog to drink. Is that really hating on animals?

http://www.submission.org/pets/dogs2.html

Also, Islam teaches us that God created the earth for us and commanded us to treat it with respect for it will testify against us along with all the animals on this earth.

 Satan lives in the nose over night. He can be flushed out if you snort water up and then out the nose. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 516; Muslim vol. I, no. 462)
5. People turn into rats, pigs and monkeys. (Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 524, 627; Muslim vol. IV, no. 7135). Abraham's father was turned into an animal (Bukhari vol. IV, no.569)

6. Muslims have one intestine while non-Muslims have seven! (Muslim vol. 111, no. 5113-5115)

7. If you lift up your eyes towards heaven while praying, your eyes will be snatched out! (Muslim vol. III, nos. 862-863)
8. One wing of a fly has poison but the other wing has the antidote to it. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 537)
10 He was asked to explain why a child will look like one parent as opposed to looking like the other. He claimed that Gabriel came and gave the inspired answer. See Bukhari vol. IV: no. 546. So, we are dealing with revelation and not just his personal opinion. He said that the child will look like which parent reaches his or her sexual climax first. The study of genetics and DNA forever disproves this idea.


These are actually Hadiths which are classified as weak.They contradict the Quran and are regarded as false.In fact we see the chain of narration to understand if the hadith itself was originally divine. WE AS MUSLIMS believe in the words of the holy Quran as the 100% true word of God but the hadiths are not regarded as this. Also, alot of the hadiths which you have mentioned ARE NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSLATION. Some don't even say things as close as it really is.

[Jeehad]

My second line of argument is the following. If there is error in the scientific signs you claim the Koran contains, it is subsequently a fallacy. Consider this argument found at Chick publications.



One of the questions which puzzled the ancient Arabs was, "Where did the sun go when night time came?" The Qur'an gave them Allah's answer.

He [i.e. Zul-qarnain] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water.
(Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86)

We agree with Muslim scholars that Zul-qarnain refers to Alexander the Great (see Yusuf Ali's appendix on this subject in his translation of the Qur'an). According to this surah, Alexander the Great traveled west until he found out what happened to the sun. It went down into and under the murky waters of a pond. When it was completely covered by the water, darkness fell upon the earth.

To the early Muslims, this surah gave the divine answer as to why darkness fell when the sun set in the West. They assumed that the sun, like the moon, was the size perceived by the human eye, about the size of a basketball. Darkness came when with a mighty hissing roar it went down under the dark waters of a pond. They boldly and proudly proclaimed that this marvelous answer proved that the Qur'an was indeed the Word of God.

Today, modern Muslims are quite embarrassed by this passage and try to ignore it or to quickly dismiss it as poetry. But the passage is not part of a poem. Thus it cannot be dismissed as figurative language or poetic license. In the context, it is part of a historical narrative which relates several historical incidences in the life of Alexander the Great.

The mistake was based on the erroneous assumption that the earth was flat. The authors of the Qur'an did not know that the earth was a sphere which revolved around the sun.

The reader must ask himself if he is prepared to believe and to defend the Qur'an in this passage. Either the sun sets in a pond or it doesn't. It is either one way or the other. There can be no middle ground, no compromise, no evading the issue. If you agree with us that the sun is shining on the other side of the earth and thus it does not go down into murky water, then you must also agree with us that the Qur'an contains scientific errors.

"So what?" you ask. "Who cares!" you cry. Only those who are brave enough to seek the truth will care. Those who are intellectually lazy or dishonest will close their eyes and pretend to see nothing.

It only takes one error to disprove the Qur'an. That's right. Just one little error and the whole book goes down in defeat! You have just discovered one irrefutable error in the Qur'an. What are you going to do about it?

The above is found on the internet cut and pasted. It is easily obtained if desired.

Regards Mustardseed

Please watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTBPUdFhDa8 it explains this "contradiction."

[Jeehad]

My first argument would go something like this.

If we follow your line of arguments, Muhammad was having a revelation from God because he foresaw certain scientific issues. However he was not the only one who "saw" the future and who did not believe that "the earth was flat". Many folks did.

It is in my opinion illogical to alledge, that just because certain statements,  later to be confirmed as fact, are found in the  pages of the Koran, it is subsequently written by God.

If that was the case anyone who makes statements, not presently understood by the masses, would be another Mohammad. Bill Gates, Einstein, Hawkins etc etc all have made statements later to be confirmed as facts, they would fall in this category.

The ability to forsee the future, then becomes the definition of a Miracle and a subsequent connection to God.

Regards Mustardseed 

Sorry for the huge chain of posts, but i think if all the posts were rammed together into one people would freak out and not read them:P Refer to my first post explaining the scientific history of civilizations, also please note that Mohammad was illiterate he was not learned in science nor could he read or write. So the question is brought up! How could Muhammad have known such things, which is another reason people converted to Islam during this period.