The Neverending Thread (was SATAN DECEIVES YOU)

[PeacefulWarrior]

Hey, I am Christian and I defend the OBE and every other experience and part of our soul (we all have spirit bodies that God created, saying that it is wrong to expereince this is saying that God is evil and wrong and I am sure you don't believe that).

Also, anything, if it takes control of your life, can become dangerous (food, drugs, tv, video games, books, negative relationships, ETC ETC) and if someone only focuses on OBE and lets every other part of their self and life go, then yes, AP is dangerous.

Furthermore, there is biblical evidence ( a lot of it) that many prophets and others have recieved revelations from OBE's and through their dreams.

Trust me, your Christian friends in their overzealousness have got you twisted my friend.  

Demanding people to accept Christ is not the way to help others, Christ never did that.

Your brother,
Daniel

PS- thanks for moving this Nick.

PSS- to all other members, don't retaliate to Allanon's post, that's what he wants.  Obviously going in and judging everyone like he has is wrong, so don't play his game.

[Nick]

OK Allanon, I get the point, I'm going to burn in hell. Thanks for the warning. By the way, I'm moving this thread to the Astral Chat forum as it's really not in the scope of obe discussions.

[shadowatcher]

All this religion and worship just allows God to get a stranglehold on your soul.

You must turn to the Devil for the redemption of your soul NOW.

There is no other Way out of this.

You may think you will "Live Forever" after you die but that is exactly what Christs first lie was. If you want eternal life and happiness with the Devil you must accept Satan as your Saviour and turn to the World of  Satan. The Bible is absolutely false no matter what "evidence" God puts on the table. I will pray for you Allanon, as I too was once in the snares of good spirits.

Oh yes, meditate, dont pray

[no_leaf_clover]

Gee.. Satan told me he just wanted to give me some candy if I did what he asked. [:O]

[Anonymous]

It's all good, people. I got Satan to sell me HIS soul. He's MY biznitch now. Booya!

[kromeknight]

It's really quiet simple Allanon
you choose your own existance and destination.



Or


Think about it....think hard!

[James S]

Oh no.....not again!

[Soulfire]

Hi,

It's worth considering that astral projection, lucid dreaming, and regular dreaming are fundamentally the same experience, with the main difference being how much consciousness you have access to during the experience.  I will discuss below why I have come to believe this(I know some people will disagree), but assuming just for the moment that it MIGHT be true, then it might also follow that AP and lucid dreaming are no more "sinful" or wrong for devout Christians than the dreams all of us have every night?

The non-physical planes are very thought responsive, and the more thoughts you have active, the more I believe they influence the "reality" around you in those states.  When you are dreaming normally, I think it is mostly your sub-conscious creating everything you experience and you primarily perceive what the sub-conscious creates.  When you "awaken" in a dream, I personally find that there seem to be varying degrees of "consciousness" that you wake up with.  Sometimes you are only partially awake, and then your subconscious seems to be very active creating things that probably would not be there without your presence making the experience feel more dreamlike than a typical astral projection.  Some of my lucid dreams have been as crystal clear as any consciously induced AP and when this happens I can tell no difference between the two other than how I got there.  I have also found that I can create clarity and bring much more consciousness into a lucid dream when I remember to make a conscious effort to do this.

Personally I do not hold to any dogma Christian or otherwise, but even if you do, it might be worth considering whether or not the dreams that god gave to each and every one of us can really be considered "wrong"?  Is choosing to learn to experience your dreams more consciously any more wrong than choosing to learn to pay more attention to your physical life and living it with more clarity and consciousness?  It's worth thinking about...  []

--Soulfire

[Robert Bruce]

G'day Folks!

A fun topic by the looks of it all....

But it has a serious side.

I have known a number of devout born again type christians to experience spontaneous OBE.  They have told their church that they were 'taken up' and shown visions.  This is recieved well by churches as the 'terminology' used to describe OBE experiences fits their paradigms.

This only goes to show that it is not so much the experience of OBE, but the 'terminology' used to describe it that matters to devout christian type people.

On a more serious note, this type of fundamental christian view of OBE can cause a great deal of harm.  Many christians, including ministers, I have know and helped, who have experienced OBE related symptoms, eg, paralysis, rapid heartbeat, vibrations, etc, interpret this as major satanic attack.  The symptoms thus needlessly terrorize and traumatize them, when they are actually just harmless and natural phenomena.

With regard to 'letting go of ones mind', or emptying the mind, etc, newage and Eastern terminology also gets in the way. If you use terms like 'focusing the mind' or 'clearing the mind' or 'quietening the mind' then christians take less offense.  The act of clearing the mind involves strength and discipline, and such a mind is far less vulnerable to negative influences than any other 'non disciplined' mind.

Keep all this in mind when you discuss these matters with christians as a simple change in terminology can overcome most such arguments.

Also, I always wonder about the other 80% of the world's population that are non christian when I come across this type of dogmanic argument. But then again, they probably think the same way about the christians.

Btw, are you aware that there is absolutely 'no' historical proof to support 'anything' written in the new testament?  The only thing that supports biblical history is the bible itself. This is fact that can be ascertained through historical records and university religious studies. The earliest historical evidence of christianity and the bible are a few late-third century 'fingernail sized' fragments that historians consider could 'possibly' be fragments of a very early version of the bible.

There is a big difference between 'popularly believed' history and 'real' history that can be supported by hard evidence.  However, most christians are not interested in the 'real' truth, only in the 'comfortable' truth.

Also note that freedom of thought is 'actively' discouraged in fundamentalist type christian churches, where members are told what to think and what to believe, so this situation is likely to remain unchanged.


Take care, Robert.

[shadowatcher]

I believe that the Bible was created in the middle ages, to increase the oppression of the underclass. For hundreds of years, theres been a conspiracy of the Plutocrats against ordinary people, and religion is the weapon of the upperclass.

[James S]

Allanon,
I'm going to take PeacefulWarriors advice here, as I respect his opinion, and not retaliate.

Having been a 'born again' christian myself for 16 years, during which time I studied the bible quite carefully, I can assure you that for as many arguments that you can bring here in support of the bible being 'the one and only truth', there are easily as many against, and all you will be doing is wasting hard-drive space on the AstralPulse server with text files full of circular arguments.

There are a number of christians on this site, including Daniel, who are here because of real life experiences that maybe cannot be specifically explained in the Bible. They have learned to accept these experiences not as satanic, but as one of the many gifts that our creator has to offer us, if only we open our minds to the possibilities.

Regards,
James.

[LA FORET MAUVE]

In another post, Allanon wrote: "Jesus Christ is Lord and the Devil is nothing more than a selfish creation."...contradiction !

By the way, Allanon i have a request ! Could you contact the "musee d'histoire naturelle" in Paris ? It is a museum where you could find your place, the scientific staff there would be amazed and very excited to have a specimen of a near extinct specie : catholicus ignitus...a very dangerous specie...more dangerous than Hitler in fact. Thank you Allanon, for reminding us the good old words which have sent millions people to burn in public places in europa.
May your idol give you some maturity if it is in its power...

[Soulfire]

Hi again guys,

You might not agree with Allanon's views, but there is nothing good that is going to come out of attacking him personally.  

In all fairness, Allanon is not the same person who committed the atrocities in the name of the Christian faith you speak of, so "blaming" him for them just because you perceive his mindset to be similar to the people who did those things is blatantly unfair.  All I have seen Allanon be "guilty" of is posting messages on here trying to help people according to the beliefs he has.

It's fine that we have different beliefs, but to attack people for expressing them puts us on the same level (and comes from the same energy) as the people who committed the atrocities you mentioned.  The best way to honor God (whether you are religious or not) is to act with understanding and love towards each other.

--Soulfire

[curiousgirl]

why do you keep hanging out in this "devil's forum", allanon?  perhaps you have had similar experiences or are fascinated by this stuff, but don't want to admit it to yourself.  and then you feel guilty and afraid and most especially lost, because you find yourself questioning your religion and retaliate against your feelings by "thumping" your bible at us (at yourself?).  it just seems strange to me that someone like you would even bother going through the trouble of coming into a place like this (of all places!) to preach.  instead of working yourself into a furious frenzy here, why don't you just chill and have nice conversations in a christian forum?  or go and preach at people who are lost and lonely and need a dogmatic religion to tell them what to do and help (lead) them through life.  i think here most of the people are going to be a fairly stubborn lot... we have that horrible problem of thinking for ourselves.  are you an internet missionary or something?

[LA FORET MAUVE]

hmm you're right, Soulfire ! I apologize, i was furious !!! I must admit that i am still furious against the Church in general and to see people acting "missionary"...we all know how awfull the acts of missionary people are on foreign cultures ...knowing that i can't understand this kind of behaviour...
bah...we all do mistakes...