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Author Topic: What do christians think about this stuff?  (Read 8546 times)
LightBeam
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2016, 05:51:53 »

The issue was your claim, "they would have called a pastor to expel satan out of me LOL. So, this is what the majority [of Christians] think."


If you didn't get that was a joke I made in my head. But actually Christianity believes in exorcism anyway, so I dont understand your point. And I am from California not the deep south LOL. Do your research. You can not deny that every Christian beliefs Jesus is our lord and savior, the only son of God and only through him we can reach the heaven. This my friend is not true and this is a very limiting belief which lead to denial of AP experiences. Christians do not believe there are worlds between heaven and hell. So, if there are only heaven and hell and we cant pass to heaven without Jesus, then logically AP is not real to them. And if any of them believe otherwise, then they should not call themselves Christians.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2016, 06:43:04 »

If you didn't get that was a joke I made in my head. But actually Christianity believes in exorcism anyway, so I dont understand your point.

Nor do I understand your point...exorcism? what's that got to do with anything?

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And I am from California not the deep south LOL. Do your research.

Actually, unlike you I have not only done my research but I have included it here in this thread.

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You can not deny that every Christian beliefs Jesus is our lord and savior, the only son of God and only through him we can reach the heaven.

I do not deny that.

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This my friend is not true and this is a very limiting belief which lead to denial of AP experiences. Christians do not believe there are worlds between heaven and hell. So, if there are only heaven and hell and we cant pass to heaven without Jesus, then logically AP is not real to them. And if any of them believe otherwise, then they should not call themselves Christians.

Actually it can be seen as TRUE in the Gnostic view. Do you know what Gnostic Christianity is?
IT is NOT a limiting belief (any more than the Christian haters Belief system)
IT does NOT deny AP experiences.
(WHAT?!) Over a BILLION Christians believe there are realms between heaven and hell
They all call themselves Christian. What gives you the right to deny them that freedom?

I think you really need to broaden your horizons a bit... there is a giant universe of Christianity that you clearly know NOTHING about.

Did you look at the link I gave above?

Did you investigate any of the saints that I pointed to?

Do you even want to learn more on this subject?
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2016, 06:43:04 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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LightBeam
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2016, 06:56:43 »

Over a BILLION Christians believe there are realms between heaven and hell
They all call themselves Christian.

Perhaps in a parallel dimension LOL
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2016, 06:59:48 »

Perhaps in a parallel dimension LOL

Guess again.

Have you ever heard of Purgatory?
Or maybe the disputed realm called Limbo?

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LightBeam
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2016, 07:18:06 »


Have you ever heard of Purgatory?
Or maybe the disputed realm called Limbo?



"Purgatory (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven." So, they will be afraid to AP because they will end up there LOL.

Yeah, not true either. I have not heard APers experience this. So, this is another false belief. Unless all of us are not sinners. But I am a sinner according to Christianity because I dont believe in Jesus and therefore I can never go to heaven. Guess what, I have gone to heavenly worlds many times.

And by the way, there is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief. The principles of Gnosticism contradict what it means to be a Christian. Therefore, while some forms of Gnosticism may claim to be Christian, they are in fact decidedly non-Christian.

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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2016, 07:18:06 »



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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2016, 07:32:00 »

"Purgatory (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven." So, they will be afraid to AP because they will end up there LOL.

The definition is true but your commentary is utterly false.

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Yeah, not true either. I have not heard APers experience this.

As I said, you appear to be hugely ignorant of a giant universe of Christianity out there. MANY APers have experienced this. Many, many APers throughout veritable AGES have experienced this.

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So, this is another false belief. Unless all of us are not sinners.

Wrong. Completely FALSE Logic.

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And by the way, there is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief.

Wait a minute... did you just say *true* Christianity?...
?
...?


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LightBeam
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2016, 07:36:19 »

Your statements are contradicting. I am done with this topic.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2016, 07:53:08 »

Your statements are contradicting. I am done with this topic.

Nothing I said was contradictory. You on the other hand, have made a stream of false statements. From your wrong comments about what "most" Christians would do upon hearing about an AP experience to what a majority of Christians believe about realms between heaven and hell, I have shown you to be very wrong.

If I had truly made any contradictory claims you could merely quote them and show the contradiction. But I didn't make any contradictory statements... so you won't be able to back up your false accusation.

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funfire
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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2016, 10:44:40 »

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/the_relative_playing_field-t46756.0.html

don't fight for something just to fight but help others and yourself to understand everyone's perspective.

I personally have an absolute disgust for the christian faith not the people. Being trapped for 16 years in that disillusion really gets to me.

of course no christian is going to have the same perspective of their religion because it is so distorted with information that people just pick and choose what is right and wrong. there are about 20 christian religions out there right now. The only thing they all get together on is that Jesus is there lord and savior that's pretty much it.


Robert you are defending a faith that hinders progress. trying to grow or learn from any religion will only get you so far in life and in death.

And what I mean by defend is that you are trying to defend your own perspective of the christian faith. By getting a wider perspective you can see what is right from wrong. I don't need research for the christian faith I have experience.

sorry if our perspectives offend you but you can grow from it if your willing.  smiley
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Bluefirephoenix
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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2016, 14:10:47 »

Moderator warning chill or topic will be locked down
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« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2016, 20:47:27 »

I was just wondering? huh

There is only one thing that unifies the Christian faith and that is not simply a belief in Jesus Christ. It is a belief that he lived, shed his blood and died so we don't have to in order to reach the kingdom of God/Heaven.

Beyond that it's a waste of time to generalize Christians.

In some of the churches you have speaking in tongues, could that be channeling? You have prayer, could that be meditation? You have manifesting, could that be metaphysical? You have visitors from beyond our 3D world, could that be...

It is not fair or healthy to assume that the 'label' Christian defines an entire person or their entire belief system.
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2016, 21:30:14 »

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/the_relative_playing_field-t46756.0.html

don't fight for something just to fight but help others and yourself to understand everyone's perspective.

Funfire, the issue here is not "perspective". The issue is people making false claims about Christianity. The issue is people talkin' trash about my family's faith. It really is pretty bad. I understand perfectly well what other people's 'perspective' is and I am fine with that. Okay, you don't like Christianity, fine, so don't go to their church. How hard is that?

What I don't get is how people get stuck in victim mode and go around whining and moaning, "Ohhhh, that terrible Church. I wasted an hour every Sunday listening to some ignoramus drone on about stupid stuff...". Geeez -- get over it. Show us some of that spiritual progress you are making lately and let go of your past and forgive and forget.

This claim that Christianity stifles growth is just plain false. The reality is that Spiritual Progress can be made very effectively within the rubric of many Christian sects. In the Catholic tradition the method of Centering Prayer as a meditative practice is second to none in building concentration and leading the Consciousness inward and developing a highly refined subtle awareness.

The time I spent among Mormons was enlightening. As a group, this culture instills a respect for others that is so very lacking among typical New Age type groups that get together and descend into a wallowing christian-bashing fest. I rarely heard malicious gossip spill from their Mormon disciplined lips. Some of their popular traditions like regular fasting and community service are very indicative of above average attainment in spiritual disciplines. They teach the rank and file to search within and learn to feel that "stirring in the bosom" that reveals the Guidance of the Spirit on a subtle level. These new age groups with their weekend workshops on developing psychic awareness have nothing over many traditional Christian practices.

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I personally have an absolute disgust for the christian faith not the people. Being trapped for 16 years in that disillusion really gets to me.
of course no christian is going to have the same perspective of their religion because it is so distorted with information that people just pick and choose what is right and wrong. there are about 20 christian religions out there right now. The only thing they all get together on is that Jesus is there lord and savior that's pretty much it.

Perhaps you have heard the saying that "we see the world through the lens of our own consciousness". If you look at a religious tradition 2000 years old and see mostly the discord ... hmmm, perhaps that thought could serve as a contemplation seed to ponder in a quiet moment. Personally I see people who are trying to internalize exceedingly High Teachings like, "do unto other as you would have done unto you" and Love they neighbor as thyself". Given that over a billion people are in that population there is obviously a wide spectrum of degrees of success in internalizing these maxims.

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Robert you are defending a faith that hinders progress. trying to grow or learn from any religion will only get you so far in life and in death.

And what I mean by defend is that you are trying to defend your own perspective of the christian faith. By getting a wider perspective you can see what is right from wrong. I don't need research for the christian faith I have experience.

sorry if our perspectives offend you but you can grow from it if your willing.  smiley

Perspectives do not bother me. Falsehood and malicious gossip awaken my sense of justice and fairness. If you don't like Christianity don't go to their church. But if you want to spew falsehood and just go around trash talking an ancient faith and tradition, well... I hope you won't be offended if I step up and say, "that is a false claim". If someone says, "I don't like listening to an ignorant preacher on Sunday" -- *that* is perspective. I have no problem with that. But if someone says, "Catholics can't think for themselves and aren't allowed to disagree with Church Authority" -- *that* is outright falsehood. "Perspective" has nothing to do with it.

See the difference?

When you claim that I am "defending a faith that hinders progress" it means you do not understand the faith and perhaps you do not know what 'progress' is. Some of the most spiritually advanced souls I know practice the Ancient Catholic method of Centering Prayer as taught in the ancient teachings found in the "Cloud of Unknowing". The Catholic history is filled to overflowing with saints who made fantastic progress on the Spiritual Path. Show me another method that has produced a St. Francis or in more modern times a Padre Pio. In terms of OBE and AP show me a tradition or method that produces an APer that approaches the skill level of a Marilynn Hughes (devout Catholic).

I have brought up these points here multiple times but for some reason they are swept aside and completely ignored. It is difficult to continue clinging to ignorance and bigotry when you gain a little knowledge.
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Xanth
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2016, 23:01:03 »

Let's try to remember that we're all friends here and nobody is trying to personally attack anyone.    Smiley
Let's post with that in mind please.  Thanks!
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« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2016, 01:18:08 »

I think it only fair to make comment on any religion if you understand the concepts and beliefs within that religion.
An outright ' I hate them' is where wars have been created. This is mostly due to lack of knowledge and the saying ' a little knowledge is dangerous' speaks for itself.
I meet Roman Catholic and Muslim people who share their beliefs and teach each other the ways they live their life. The Christians I know are quite respectful of other religions as are the Jehovas Witnesses.
All of them work together in a pleasant environment and issues that hit the news are discussed mostly with disgust for the waste of life. The main issue is to love, a few will take parts of their 'book' and go overboard in a very negative way. These are shunned by their religious leaders as they are not following the core of the belief.
We all can live amongst each other if we take time to listen to the beliefs each religion offer. In some they are surprisingly similar. I'm not an expert but I LISTEN. This is all it takes.
Respect is earned this way.
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« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2016, 04:40:58 »

There are reprehensible things to be found in the holy books of all religions. Some more than others, but if we are talking the Semitic / Abrahamic religions, you don't have to look very hard.

No one belonging to these religions could really follow all of the commandments of their own religion without being a monster. That goes without saying. So it is important to realize that every practitioner is in some manor of dissonance with them. Based on which verses they choose to follow, and which they choose to dismiss, you can actually learn about their personal values. People will take the parts of their faiths that resonate with them.

So while you can call the values of a certain group Christian, or Muslim, or Zoroasterian values, what it really comes down to is the values of their community or family being passed on to them, but being justified as those of their religious tradition.

That is part of why it doesn't help us to say "Christian values" without speaking about the geographic region in question. Are we talking about the Philippines or Alabama? I think if you consider what each group has common to it, the concept would make sense. One of these groups is more concerned with the social justice passages and the Sermon on the Mount, and one of them is more concerned with the Book of Revelations. Islam is much the same. At various times in its history, it has been both the most progressive, and the most regressive faith in the world, based solely on which of the Surahs and Hadiths were held in various readings. It can be both the religion of service, and the religion of war, depending on who is pulling verses.

It is important to realize that religion is at times an instrument of self-expression, I think.
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« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2016, 05:30:02 »

Sorry if I caused an uproar feelsbadman.  embarassed

Have a bad habit of trying to psychoanalyze people.
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« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2016, 15:57:58 »

All 'sides' in this discussion have raised good and valid points.

There is a wide spectrum of what it means to "be christian", "be muslim", and even "be new age" or "be spiritual".

People are different, actually it is even down to an individual level. So for me it makes no sense when we make discussions based on a fixed set of assumption or even dogmatic statements saying "buddhists/muslims/christians believe/are this or that".

My parents are christians and what it all boils down to is that they go to church a few times in the year and put up a christmas tree on X-mas. That's all.  wink

There are some very open churches or christian discussion groups, some more open(minded) some more dogmatic or orthodox. Let them be how they want to be as long as they don't proselityze too much or want to 'convert' or (if not possible) disrespect you.

Just an example, one of our former members here as a very experienced long-time projector was member of the Unity Church, which is still 'christian' to some degree since they also refer to the bible and Jesus.

http://www.unity.org/about-us/our-philosophy

They even did seminars with Tom Campbell (My Big Toe) who is a proponent of the digital universe theory. So I guess they are very 'open' to ideas of AP, new theories on the basis of reality and all that.

Of course they are just on the one end of the spectrum, still you could say they are christian.
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