Being a Christian and still able to do OBE

[tvos]

Ap Friends,

Sorry to lay this on you but I decided to add my FAQ section from my web site. Based on my experience reading the niv bible (last four months), and true obe experience and spiritual education.

Projecting is not for everyone, I do realize that which is fine. One doesn't need to find God through out of body experiences. All that matters is that they find what they call "God" vs. finger pointing what religion is better, and judging quickly based on lack of experience.

You can't label paranormal as "satanic" if you've never experienced it more than thousands of times. What people "know" or think they "know" leads to fear. Experience is the true and only validation and not just a couple of times.

Enjoy!


Do you think astral projection, dream communication defies religion?
No! Astral Projection does not defy religion at all. Throughout the bible
there are many scriptures that talk about God, Christ, Angels using dreams or trance state of consciousness as a valid and legitimate religious tool to communicate. Either as a warning, visions, guidance, explanation, prophecy, that follows the message of God.

Read the following scriptures about “how” dreams or trance communication between God, Angels, Spirits and humans are a legitimate religious tools.

Genesis 15:01 - God's Covenant With Abram
1 After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:
"Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, [a] your very great reward."

Genesis 46:02 - Jacob Goes to Egypt  
2 And God spoke to Israel in a vision at night and said, "Jacob! Jacob!"
 "Here I am," he replied.  3 "I am God, the God of your father," he said. "Do not be afraid to go down to Egypt, for I will make you into a great nation there. 4 I will go down to Egypt with you, and I will surely bring you back again. And Joseph's own hand will close your eyes."

Numbers 12:04 - Miriam and Aaron Oppose Moses
4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, "Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you." So the three of them came out. 5 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward, 6 he said, "Listen to my words:  "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. 7 But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house.

Kings 1 3:04 & 14- Solomon Asks for Wisdom
4 The king went to Gibeon to offer sacrifices, for that was the most important high place, and Solomon offered a thousand burnt offerings on that altar. 5 At Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream, and God said, "Ask for whatever you want me to give you." 14 And if you walk in my ways and obey my statutes and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life." 15 Then Solomon awoke—and he realized it had been a dream.


Many people would argue that out of body experiences / astral projection are divination and thrill seeking. Allowing one-self to follow evil entities, false visions that will  lead to the path of darkness.
 
One should definitely test their intent, cause and reason during the experience. To validate if it yields spiritual education, positive influence on one’s physical life and others is the key. 

Here are some more scriptures to consider.

John 4:1 - Test the Spirits
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.

The famous saying goes “The unknown leads to Fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering”. We as human beings immediately classify the unknown as mystical because we can’t explain it. Then this leads to a fear of the unknown which we assume as evil. Immediately it takes form of hate and then suffering that is categorized as satanic.

Out of Body Experience’s and Education eliminates fear and shows the light and love of God. It doesn’t push you away, or navigate you away from God, it anchors you to strive and be a better person.

I’ve read the New International Version Bible published by Zondervan.  Old Testament and New Testament and in my study which took me four months to complete. Nowhere does it state “ Out of Body Experiences” are the work of the devil. One that projects doesn’t boast, but acknowledges, teaches, and conveys the message of experience.

Corinthians 12:1 - Paul's Vision and His Thorn
1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.

Since 1987, I started down this path and dived deep into soul searching, spirituality and arriving at one conclusion. There are many ways to worship, follow, and practicing faith in creed. All religions are equal as long there is love of serving what one calls “God”. I’ve found my way of testing the out of body experiences and it has yielded good fruit, it has taught me how to care, love,  grow spiritually, and become a better person. It is definitely a gift and an honor to be able to project. This is how I found God and not Satan.


Romans 12:3 - Living Sacrifices  
3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

Corinthians 13:1 - Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I welcome you to view the file “NIV - Science - OBE Research.doc” in the APFaqs folder. When I was reading the Bible, I documented what each book outlined along with communication of dreams, trance, miracles, prophecy and
visions.   

Tvos

[DH]

Thanks Tvos!  Your thorough work is a helpful tool.

[tvos]

people should read Revelations... the whole book is about visions, dreams, prophecy..  on my site, I created in a word document my last four month study and picked out the dreams, trance, visions, miracles, which amounted to about 70 pages... I also wanted to document each book so that I could remember a brief outline of the stories being told...

my passion and desire to read the good book (bible) was for education, better understand, communicate, and arm myself with knowledge for discussions like these.

i've done a little random sampling asking christians if they have read the whole bible.. the majority said "yes" but surprizingly many have not...

what i am getting at is 1. how can you raise debate if you don't know the teachings of the bible and the experience of obe's?

tvos

[Beth]

Hey all,

In addition to the canonical scriptures already quoted, re: OBE/AP, there are also some very interesting verses in non-canonical texts such as the Gospel of Philip (categorized as Gnostic, but no less an original Christian writing) that are very worthy of reading closely and meditating upon:

Those who say that the Lord died first and then rose up are in error, for he rose up first and then died. If one does not first attain the ressurrection will he not die? As God lives, he would already be dead.

And:

Some are afraid lest they rise naked. Because of this they wish to rise in the flesh, and they do not know that it is those who wear the flesh who are naked. It is those who [...*] to unclothe themselves who are not naked. Flesh and Blood shall not be able to inherit the kingdom of God [see also 1Cor15:50]

(from the translation found at: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/gospels/gosphil.htm )

In reading these verses I think that OBE/AP is exactly what the writer is referring to.

Consider the following [...*] as the lacuna (the missing text) from the second quote above:

It is those who [*are willing/able/not afraid?] to unclothe themselves who are not naked.

Does this resonate with anyone else? What do you think?

Personally, I have no doubt that OBE/AP is a sign of the evolving spirit/soul. In my experience, it has only been through OBE/AP that I have been able to breech the strict boundaries of the church of Christianity.

Notice that by using the term "church of Christianity" I am intentionally distinguishing between "Christianity" and "the church that has been developed with the same name". While the "church of Christianity" cannot exist without the New Testament, the New Testament texts in no way "need the church" to be spiritually powerful for those who can study and learn from the writers' thoughts in their own 1st century context. This, of course, in no way means that all NT books are equal and necessary, rather, just those that have the spiritual efficacy needed by each seeker.

In other words, "original Christian thought" and "the later Christian church" can easily exist as mutually exclusive entities; if people choose to completely break away from "the church", they can always keep studying the NT texts in whatever way speaks to them spiritually--and with the freedom to interpret them in their own personal way. Moreover, without having the church dictate which texts are valid and which are not, seekers can read a great many other texts---guilt free---from the early Christian tradition, as well numerous other texts from related traditions.

So, hang in there Sorrow. Remember Matthew 7:7-8:

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Peace,
~Beth








 

[DH]

people should read Revelations... the whole book is about visions, dreams, prophecy.. 

Ezekiel is another interesting one.  That boy seems to be "flying" all over the place!

Hey all,
Notice that by using the term "church of Christianity" I am intentionally distinguishing between "Christianity" and "the church that has been developed with the same name". While the "church of Christianity" cannot exist without the New Testament, the New Testament texts in no way "need the church" to be spiritually powerful for those who can study and learn from the writers' thoughts in their own 1st century context.

Unfortunately most of the various Christian denominational churches seem content to focus on power and control -- their own!  Their interpretations of the Bible keep their faithful in check and in the dark.  One can certainly benefit by reading other ancient documents that were left out of the Bible.  Some are wacky and make a fun read (like the infancy Gospel of Thomas that tries to fill in the gaps of Jesus' childhood with stories like the child Jesus zapping people that tinkle him off!)-- others give some food for thought, like 4 Esdras of the OT Apocrypha, in which the author speaks of the Spirit of God that is in ALL people (not just the "saved" as in Paul and other NT writers.  Some of the non-canonical writers show some interesting parallels with Eastern thought.

DH