Ethics of homemade religion

[Awakened_Mind]

I'd say truth is objective. It is the ultimate. 'Truth' is synonymus with 'real'. We don't necessarily know what is true and/or real. So begins how subjectivity. What we consider to be real and/or true.

Fact is what's understood to a societies or individuals understanding. 'Facts' are synonymous with 'beliefs'. Educated, evidentially substatiated opinions. They are subjective. Many things have been considered fact and disproven in the past.

How do you define the difference between fact and truth?

-AM

[Mustardseed]

I would agree with Awakened Mind that Truth is objective. There is such a thing as truth. The universe is made or evolved or a bit of both, but it is here so it came to be by some process.....that is the truth, even if it is only a fiction in our mind.......still that then is the truth. Within the astral pulse beliefsystem, the different focus areas and beliefsystem territories are thought of as truth, yet no one really knows. It continues to amaze me that some seem to reject this point and still insist on their viewpoint their experience is a universal truth for all. Odd as it mighyt seem, being a Christian I seem to accept the fact that my faith is a personal belief and could be wrong. far easier than many AP folks or even new ageers who embrace me by telling me how MY faith fits inside theirs. They are all just theories but there is a TRUTH. Maybe we will never find it maybe we will maybe some will never find it maybe some have.How one perceives the various glimpses we all get is subjective, what we believe is subjective , but there is a truth.

Regards Mustardseed

[Awakened_Mind]

I've always liked the idea that truth is not something that evades, but which we are evolving toward.

-AM

[Gandalf]

Within the astral pulse beliefsystem, the different focus areas and beliefsystem territories are thought of as truth, yet no one really knows

Sorry Mustardseed but I don't see this as being a useful parallel.

The focus system is a system of *labels* used to define certain observed areas of consciousness. They are not beleifs in the sense that you use the word.

Focus levels are terms used to describe various areas of consciousness that anybody can experience for themselves. Therefore it is not a belief as such but terminolgy which seeks to label observed facts.

As for the 'belief system areas' this is also a label, but again it describes observed areas of consiousness. Anyone with just a little experience of the astral will find out pretty soon that 'like attracts like' and that thoughts beome manifest in an objective form in these areas of consciousness.
This is a truth. Anyone can observe and experience this for themselves. It therefore comes as no suprise when we observe individuals and indeed whole groups engaged in all kinds of activities in the astral as they are all drawn their by thier own thought processes.

If you argue that the focus system/ belief system area observations are 'just another belief' then by default you acknowlege that this is how the astral works and your statement is meaninlgess.

Please do not confuse the basics of the phasing approach with mainstream religion. The Focus approach is not a belief system, but a labeling system, used to define observed areas of consciousness.

I agree however, that some people take the system too  far and make claims that are yet to be verified by a substantial number of others and this is where the line should be drawn.

[Novice]

My original post was a brief one-liner, and obviously wasn't very clear. Now that I read what Awakened_Mind and MS wrote, we are all saying the same thing (I think), but simply getting hung up on word definitions (fact vs truth).

Awakened_Mind wrote:

'Truth' is synonymus with 'real'. We don't necessarily know what is true and/or real. So begins how subjectivity. What we consider to be real and/or true.

Musterseed wrote:

There is such a thing as truth. The universe is made or evolved or a bit of both, but it is here so it came to be by some process.....that is the truth, even if it is only a fiction in our mind.......still that then is the truth.

If I understand you both, we are saying the same thing. Let me give you 'my' definitions (this will illustrate where I'm coming from, I think). Truth and reality are individual perceptions. Thus they vary with the individual. A fact is an objective, concrete thing or idea that truths and realities are molded around.

I'll try and give a religous example since this post is about religion.

We are all having experiences in a world in which we interact with one another. I consider that a fact. Surrounding this fact are many theories. And to MS's point, many people consider their theories to be truth.

To some, the truth is that this world is all that there is. This, to them, is beyond belief because they cannot 'prove' anything else exists. And what scientific proof does exist, implies that anything beyond physical experiences (those occurring in this world) are illusions fabricated by the mind and thus not real. So their truth is that we have one life and that is all that exists. That is the 'truth.'

Others have experiences beyond physical reality and know that it is real. They know the truth of what they experience. This is not belief, this is a deep knowing. To them it is clearly true. I lump a majority of the new age books into this category. People do some reading/research into metaphysics, form some concepts around something and then have experiences that they see as justifiying those concepts. They have now discovered The Truth.

Others find truth in words spoken or written by other people and belief so deeply that it becomes true for them. A good example would be to look at any radical fundamentalist, regardless of religion. They know the truth, beyond a shadow of a doubt. They can prove their truth, even if most people disagree with their proof.

Awakened_Mind wrote:

I've always liked the idea that truth is not something that evades, but which we are evolving toward.

Exactly. That's what I meant when I said "It becomes valid if you 'outgrow' that truth." I meant that as we evolve, our perception of what is true/real changes. I do agree that I think at the core, there is one truth. And that is the one to which we gravitate as we cast aside the old truths that no longer fit us. Whether that 'core truth' is even remotely close to any theories currently floating around is a seperate issue altogether. For this reason, I interpret the word 'truth' as it is used today to be a variable that changes with each person's perception. 

Does that make sense? 

[Mustardseed]

As for the 'belief system areas' this is also a label, but again it describes observed areas of consciousness. Anyone with just a little experience of the astral will find out pretty soon that 'like attracts like' and that thoughts become manifest in an objective form in these areas of consciousness.
This is a truth. Anyone can observe and experience this for themselves. It therefore comes as no suprise when we observe individuals and indeed whole groups engaged in all kinds of activities in the astral as they are all drawn their by their own thought processes.

Dear Douglas
Thanks for the reply. I guess this is a very big issue. Let me explain my point a bit better. Let me use YOU as an example and the text above.

It is my experience and belief that the more I seem to learn that the more I realise I have no clue. What if....and I say what if.....

Metaphorically the astral realms were a confined very minor area in the Christian Heaven......I am knowingly provoking you here so do not get upset.

What if......all the Christians that would never even consider trying to have an OBE is right and what if those of us that do are misguided and kept in a confined area

another theory , one that I do not believe but nevertheless one that many do believe.

My point is that no matter what WE BELIEVE there has to be an absolute truth a system and I would even go so far as to say a plan of some sort. It seems that whether the universe and astral realm are a organism or a place or whatever there has to be an undisputed reality somewhere.

I find that you are quite rigid in your observations and actually surprise surprise.....a bit on the fundamentalist side  or at least you appear that way when you use terms such as  " Anyone can observe and experience this for themselves" many Christians use this terminology to convert.

Just think about it with an open mind

Regards Mustardseed.

PS Just an added thought. As far as the way things work in the Astral realm, and what you call "a truth",  this could also be a modified truth. Lets say that the Astral realm were a seperate dimension from "heaven", we all know that in space gravity is not in effect to the same degree as on earth, so it is possible that the Astral Realm has its own "rules" but that these are not universal. It is my opinion that you are too cock sure of what you appear to know.

[Awakened_Mind]

Yeah it makes sense now.

I think when people believe they know the final truth, ending progression, they become ignorant. I've always seen it like this - 'I don't know the truth, but it exists.' This raises argument, what makes us believe that there exists any truth at all? Personally, I'd debate that it does exist but I thought I'd raise it in the interest of thoroughness, which is really what this is all about. I don't mind stating my opinion and praying that someone will successfully argue and refine my idea. Then, I can take the product somewhere else and have that challenged as well, moving me toward my goal of truth... if it even exists 

-AM