Is astral projection witchcraft?

[zorgblar]

Because if it is that could send you to hell.

[Mustardseed]

Interesting observation, but not entirely new . Let me first ask you, on what you support that notion, and what you define as Witchcraft

[zorgblar]

Because it not in the bible.Know were in the bible does it say you should astral project.

[zorgblar]

I posted this because i want to astral project but i don't want to go against god.I'm a Christian by the way.

[Mez]

haha dont listen to the bible... seriously. And there is no such thing as hell not a real one anyone only self created ones, these are called "hollow heavens" and "hollow hells" they're in the astral... People with belief systems that say "if you this and this and this you are going to a fiery hell and be tortured forever" wind up in those places because thats how they think. The astral is all thought based...

The bible does and doesnt say a lot of things in actuality religions such as hindu and buddishm come a lot closer to the truth (although the bible does have some great spiritual truths) the bible and christianity bastardises them. Its not the be all and end all and its certainly not the absolute truth. No one religion is... The truth is far greater than that.

[shadow.pulsar]

Because it not in the bible.Know were in the bible does it say you should astral project.

The bible also does not say if it is okay to poop and pee in a toilet either, but I bet you do that without worrying about going to some made up hell.

 

[xblimeyx]

actually, you can find ( in fact i think even here) information about astral projection or similar practices mentioned in the bible, there's nothing evil about it. And also, there is nothing wrong in following the bible if you wish to do so, but i think God would like it  even more for you to make your own decisions and conclusions, and to ponder a bit what the bible really has to say instead of accepting explanations offered to you by the church or anyone else 

[Awakened_Mind]

Why does God invent things for us not to do?

Witchcraft was actually women practicing with the use of psychedelic substances. Mushrooms and DMT have been claimed to reveal dimensions that are beyond are physical universe. Mushrooms in particular to reconnect the individual to the 'mind of nature'. Double-blind (meaning neither experimenter nor participant knew what they are taking) studies showed that people who experienced mushrooms claimed they had been enlightened and their life would never be the same. At the time of witches, anyone using some inner guidance rather than listening to the teaching of the church was a heretic. Times were different back then. So they started burning many women because it threatened the Christian faith. The reason they stopped was because the men started to realise their sexual appetites were being threatened as well.

I see any religion saying that astral projection is the work of the devil to be similar. "Don't look inward!"
Project away my friend, it will only bring you closer to him.

If it is the devil's lare then I guess you could call those of us that do AP, soldiers. We're going in to fight, not living in fear of him.

-AM

[xblimeyx]

nice ending

[Gandalf]

Im afraid I don't subscribe to beliefs in 'hell' or 'satan' and I would take anything you read in the bible with a pinch of salt. It was written by men, a lot of men, over a wide period of time and subject to many translations.. from greek to latin to english.

This has resulted in many errors. One example: did you know that in the earliest greek versions of the bible we have, sinners dont actually go to hell for 'eternity'. Actually, in the earliest greek version, they go there for an 'Aeon'. An aeon in Greek is a varying but finite period of time, usually around 1000 years.

However in the English translations, this became 'eternity'. A tiny word change, with massive implications for believers (of which I'm not one so its all rather academic as far as I'm concerned.. but still interesting).

[Novice]

Witchcraft was actually women practicing with the use of psychedelic substances.

Umm..not quite. Witchcraft is typically lumped into two categories, polarities of each other. It was a practice of using/worshipping nature in terms of herbs and plants as well as astronomical/seasonal changes.

The one group practiced for the benefit of others (as in midwives, healers, etc). The other group was supposed to use their knowledge for malevent ends (demons, hexes and so forth). Energy use was also attributed to their practices if I remember correctly, albeit not to the extent that yoga, tai chi or other energy based systems use.

The use of psychedelic substances may have been among their practice, but that was only one small aspect of it.

[Mez]

lol@witches getting high

soz just had to add that.

[Awakened_Mind]

Their relationship with the plants and unique knowledge or understanding of nature stemmed down from visions. The visionary experiences were provided by natural hallucinegens. This is where the religion began.

It was a practice of using/worshipping nature in terms of herbs and plants.

The use of psychedelic substances may have been among their practice, but that was only one small aspect of it.

It seems like it's the heart of your definition, how can you conclude it is a small aspect? What is withcraft without psychedelic substances? If it was only herbs and spices then they'd be cooks or botanists, not witches.

-AM

[Novice]

Their relationship with the plants and unique knowledge or understanding of nature stemmed down from visions. The visionary experiences were provided by natural hallucinegens. This is where the religion began.

I had to do some research on this for a school project years and years ago, so it is quite possible I've forgotten this. But I honestly don't remember ever reading a link between witchcraft and hallucinegens. My understanding is that witchcraft was formed from pagan beliefs worshipping the earth and nature. I'll concede that hallucinegens were probably used to some extent. Many native peoples the world over have done similar things. However, I've never read that as being the core of their practice or that it was done with any type of regularity.

I did a few quick searches this morning after reading your post (several on Encyclopedia Brittanica's site) and not a single mention was made regarding drugs. Quite a bit was written about herbs, potions, amulets, etc, which most people associate to it.

As for gaining their knowledge, I would expect that they learned what the herbs did through trial and error as well as learning from others. Just like scientists create new medicines through trial and error. They build on what they know and try new stuff out to see what works and how it works. Again, I could be wrong, but that was what I understood.

Can you tell me where you read this? I'm a bit curious now.

[Awakened_Mind]

Many different groups have had use of psychedelics throughout history. Native Americans, Egyptians, Mayans, Aboriginals, practically any group associated with shamanism. Now the common link between all these groups is their relationship to nature compared to other cultures. It's as if the plant that carry psychoactive compounds somehow act as a medium or bridge, in communicating with the mind of nature. Whether this is a reality or not I'm unsure but groups that use hallucinogens in their culture, typically display a high level of social cohesion and partnership between each other and nature. Groups that don't generally display a more 'dominator' type of society. Increase your capital is the name of the game. Every man for himself.

Psychedelics, dissociatives, and deliriants have a long history of use within medicinal and religious traditions around the world. They are used in shamanic forms of ritual healing and divination, in initiation rites, and in the religious rituals of syncretistic movements such as União do Vegetal, Santo Daime, and the Native American Church. When used in religious practice, psychedelic drugs, as well as other substances like tobacco, are referred to as entheogens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen

Now this relationship seen in a contemporary culture was during the Hippie Movement in the 1960's. They bound together as one and put a lot of pressure on the government to reintroduce human values into the political agenda (rather than just economics) and had a strong emphasis on nature. 'Tree Huggers'. Now ask yourself why psychedelics were outlawed.

Yet the most popular, and at the same time most stigmatized, use of psychedelics in Western culture has been associated with the search for direct religious experience, enhanced creativity, personal development, and "mind expansion". The use of psychedelic drugs was a major element of the 1960s counterculture, where it became associated with various political movements and a general atmosphere of rebellion and strife between generations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen

Novice - " did a few quick searches this morning after reading your post (several on Encyclopedia Brittanica's site) and not a single mention was made regarding drugs"

Now to redefine the use of the word drug I'll take an extract from a book written by Terrence Mckenna called "The Archaic Revival"

"'Drug' is a red flag word. We are hysterical over the subject of drugs. Our whole society seems to be dissolving under the onslaught of criminally syndicated drug distribution systems. What we are going to have to do if we are to come to terms with this is to become a little more sophisticated in our definitions. I believe that what we really object to about 'drugs' is that we are alarmed by unexamined, obsessive, self destructive behaviour. When we see someone acting this way we draw back. That is what addiction to a drug such as cocaine or morphine results in. However, psychedelics actually break habits and patterns of thought. They cause the individual to inspect the structures of their lives and make judgements about them. Now, what psychedelics share with 'drugs', is that they are physical compounds, often pressed into pills, and you do put them in your body. But I believe that a reasonable definition of the word drugs would have pscilocybin legalized and television outlawed!

Examples of how psychedelics are used in psychology to break patterns of thought

"Starting in the mid-20th century, psychedelic drugs have been the object of extensive attention in the Western world. They have been and are being explored as potential therapeutic agents in treating depression, Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, Obsessive-compulsive Disorder, alcoholism, opioid addiction, cluster headaches, and other ailments. Early military research focused on their use as incapacitating agents. Intelligence agencies tested these drugs in the hope that they would provide an effective means of interrogation, with little success." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen

Now back to the use of psychedelics in witchcraft I'll refer again to The Archaic Revival.

"The problem with Christianity is that it's the single most reactionary force in human history. I don't even know what's in second place, it's so far in front. And I believe the destruction of paganism was probably the greatest disservice to the evolution of the human psyche that has ever been done. The repression of withcraft is really the repression of botanical knowledge, of shamanism. So I see Christianity as part of this paternalistic shell game."..

...."The late Medieval church that conducted the great witch burnings was very concerned that all credit for episodes of magic and derangement should be given to the devil - hence, the church suppressed knowledge of plants such as datura, deadly nightshade and monkshood and the role that they were playing in the nocturnal gatherings and activities of the practitioners of the craft. After all, we cannot have a devil who is such a diminished figure that he must rely on the mere work of herbs to do his wiles. The devil must be a worthy foe of the Christos, and hence nearly coequal."

Website on the use of psychoactive herbs in witchcraft http://hempbc.com/articles/78.html

Whether they were at the heart of witchcraft or not is debateable, although I still think it's what defines it. The herbs are psychoactive. The reason however that I initially took interest in it is because it seems to be of importance in the modern context. Man needs his mind reconnected with nature. Simply making hallucinogens illegal and maintaining that they are 'bad' as a culturally driven assumption,  gives us no understanding of their true nature. Were the hippies evil? 'The summer of love'. Have you heard the song by John Lennon - Imagine? There's something very interesting about the role that psychedelics play in human psychology. Unfortunately it seems to have fallen victim to social control. Who's in charge here?

-AM