Kabbalah

[Tisha]

Beth, from what you know on the topic, is this information on Kabbala factual?

http://members.tripod.com/~RobertGillette/Kabbalah.htm

It is written by a very anti-kabbala Jew: Kabbala traditions are pagan, and the author believes paganism has no part in Judaism.  I don't necessarily agree with his premise; I just want to know if the facts presented are actually factual.  

Thanks!

[Adrian]

Greetings Tisha,

That page looks precisely like the rantings of an anti-Kabbalah person against everything and everyone associated with the Kabbalah. His prejudice is very obvious! It looks exactly like the similar rantings of orthodox Christians against Spiritual philosophies; we saw enough of that here recently from a previous member.

From my point of view, regardless of its true origins which for the most part are of no real relevance, the Kabbalah seems to be a very good representation of the formation (Sephir Yetzirah) creation and nature of the Universe in all spheres and of the destiny of humanity. The "Tree of Life" is a widely accepted model (among many others) of the structure of the Universe from the highest (Kether) to the lowest (Malkuth, The Astral).

I believe it is important to look at the substance behind all of these traditions and philosophies rather than the politics behind them.

With best regards,

Adrian.
 

[Radha]

QBL.  These spell Qabala and if you spend the requisite months to digest all the meanings of these 3 you'll know more about what QBL is than all the books on earth can tell you.
When I was discussing Mirkaba with a Rabbi...I wanted to enter the Chasadim, he sugested I first interiorize the Hebraic alphabet.  The Fire writing of Chaldea.  The Fire of Zarathustra and on back.
When you memorize these glyphs and their definings, then what you read will draw on sources other than intellect. Much deeper sources.
This way of studying helped me over the next decades to see the unbelievable wealth of eastern knowledge that had been translated into Hebraic tongue.
Using the numerical notations the tongue was carried to Greek and Latin, and "sort of" into English.
Weiser publishing had discussed my doing a book on these numerical sequences, but there is so much silliness in print on this topic that I declined.  I still decline for the same reasons.
I personally, my private opinion, think trying to study the mythology called "christianity" using Hebraic is a waste of time.
First make interior the fire tongue.  THEN when what is within equals what is without (as above, so below: above means within and below means without) the fire tongue will consume your ignorance on a given topic and Vav will carry the Word from Mouth to ear in the olden time honored way.

Shema Israel

[Beth]

Radha,

 

quote:I personally, my private opinion, think trying to study the mythology called "christianity" using Hebraic is a waste of time...the fire tongue will consume your ignorance on a given topic and Vav will carry the Word from Mouth to ear in the olden time honored way.

And in my world...straight into the very heart of the first centuries of that Jewish sect later called Christianity.
They were at one time--one and the same. They share the same "mythology"...

Beth

[Beth]

Tisha,
 

quote:is this information on Kabbala factual

 

quote:The Kabbalah’s origins were “pagan” or what might be called “heathen” from a Judeo-Christian perspective. --from Gillette

pish...Gillette is not looking at the whole picture...

Beth

[Tab]

Crazy, I missed this topic but was thinking of posting one about it (the Kabbalah) yesterday. In the last few days I've been reading up on it by some whim.

Anyway, needless to say that article is crap.

quote:not to mention the fact that Kabbalistic theosophists such as Madame Helena Blavatsky and the theosophical circles of Germany eventually spawned the Nazi Party, which produced the Holocaust

Hello Blavatsky wasn't a Kabalist at all but an Eastern Theosophist. She drew similarities and references to the Kabbalah in certain places, which isn't surprising seeing as how it's doctrine holds many similarities with the Vedanta and the other esoteric systems of thought. And where the hell is there anything saying that her systems influenced Hitler? Wasn't Hitler a Christian?

quote:Rabbinical courts moved to make it unlawful for anyone under the age of forty to study Kabbalah. The reason being that if one has first lived forty years and been raised and trained in, and has studied Judaism, then perhaps his Judaism would be strong enough to dominate what he finds in the Kabbalah, rather than have the Kabbalah shape his Judaism.

That's incomplete and untrue,

quote:This prohibition has come from Ashkenazic (East European) Jews and has never applied to Sepharidic (Middle Eastern) Jews. The historical basis for the "rule" comes from opponents of Kabbalah within Judaism who (successfully) attempted to restrict its study. At the root of this was the heresy of false messiah Shabbatai Tzevi (17th. C) which resulted in large numbers of Jews leaving the orthodox fold. This heresy had deep Kabbalistic underpinnings, and in the attempt to stamp out Shabbateanism, Kabbalah itself became suspect, and specific prohibitions against the study of Kabbalah were enacted (e.g. the excommunication of the Frankists in Poland in 1756).

A further factor was the degeneration (in the eyes of their rationalist opponents) of 18th. century Hasidism, which had roots both in Kabbalah and Shabbateanism, into "wonder working" and superstition. The rationalist faction in Judaism triumphed, and the study of Kabbalah became largely discredited, to the extent that many Jewish publications written earlier in this century discuss Kabbalah (if at all) in a very negative way.

from http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/faq.htm

The writer conveniently forgets the fact that a good portion of unkabbalistic Judaism was borrowed and/or copied.

[GhostRider]

quote:Originally posted by Tab

Crazy, I missed this topic but was thinking of posting one about it (the Kabbalah) yesterday. In the last few days I've been reading up on it by some whim.

Anyway, needless to say that article is crap.

quote:not to mention the fact that Kabbalistic theosophists such as Madame Helena Blavatsky and the theosophical circles of Germany eventually spawned the Nazi Party, which produced the Holocaust

Hello Blavatsky wasn't a Kabalist at all but an Eastern Theosophist. She drew similarities and references to the Kabbalah in certain places, which isn't surprising seeing as how it's doctrine holds many similarities with the Vedanta and the other esoteric systems of thought. And where the hell is there anything saying that her systems influenced Hitler? Wasn't Hitler a Christian?

quote:Rabbinical courts moved to make it unlawful for anyone under the age of forty to study Kabbalah. The reason being that if one has first lived forty years and been raised and trained in, and has studied Judaism, then perhaps his Judaism would be strong enough to dominate what he finds in the Kabbalah, rather than have the Kabbalah shape his Judaism.

That's incomplete and untrue,

quote:This prohibition has come from Ashkenazic (East European) Jews and has never applied to Sepharidic (Middle Eastern) Jews. The historical basis for the "rule" comes from opponents of Kabbalah within Judaism who (successfully) attempted to restrict its study. At the root of this was the heresy of false messiah Shabbatai Tzevi (17th. C) which resulted in large numbers of Jews leaving the orthodox fold. This heresy had deep Kabbalistic underpinnings, and in the attempt to stamp out Shabbateanism, Kabbalah itself became suspect, and specific prohibitions against the study of Kabbalah were enacted (e.g. the excommunication of the Frankists in Poland in 1756).

A further factor was the degeneration (in the eyes of their rationalist opponents) of 18th. century Hasidism, which had roots both in Kabbalah and Shabbateanism, into "wonder working" and superstition. The rationalist faction in Judaism triumphed, and the study of Kabbalah became largely discredited, to the extent that many Jewish publications written earlier in this century discuss Kabbalah (if at all) in a very negative way.

from http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/faq.htm

The writer conveniently forgets the fact that a good portion of unkabbalistic Judaism was borrowed and/or copied.

 I can't comment about the rest, but think of it this way Tab... if I give you a book that shows you the 'hidden-tricks' of making straight-A's in college, I've influenced you. (in a positive way...)

 If I help a friend of yours out, but not you, I've influenced you still.  That is, at least I've influenced your opinion of me... (there is a 'neutral' effect going on here now)

  And if I go even further and threaten to beat your friend to submission every day untill he gives you that book... I've influenced you further.  (albeit, in a negative way)

 Either way, I've influenced you for sure and for good.  No disputing it.  Also, my 'modes of influencing' you no matter how positive, neutral, or negative they were, still did not outwardly affect the book I was using. It was still a book, neither bad nor good.  

 Where I'm going with this, is that the Kabbalah may have influenced Hitler, but in doing so neither did it make the Kabbalah any worse or Hitler any better.  It was a cause and effect situation minus the morality.  

 There, I hope I've explained myself.

[yombalula]

The Hebrew Word Kaballah means reception, If you are at a Hotel you go to the Kaballah desk to register.

Yomba

[lifebreath]

... And then they give you the Key. []

[RedDragon]

hey imporsteer alert  []

[Saints]

Beth,
I've been attending Rabbi Philip Berg's Kabbalah Centre for a few years.  I've been gaining new information about the subject and have pretty much (80-90%) agree with what I've read and been taught.  Do you have any opinions on the centre and its efforts to spread Kabbalah?  Thanks

quote]Originally posted by Beth

Even though we have our own brand of Kabbalah today, Kabbalah means simply "received tradition."  

Kabbalah has a very rich history that goes back as far as the first century with Merkabah Mysticism and extends through the Middle Ages with the development of The Tree of Life and then further forward with the science of Alchemy and the creation of the Golden Dawn.

The texts for this very broad spectrum can be found in my bibliography thread, but in brief, the ancient texts include:

The Heikhalot Literature
Sefer ha-Bahir
Sefer Yezirah
Zohar

There are, however, a great many books that help us better understand these ancient texts, books that have been written from the Medieval Period to today.  These books include many writings of Jewish Mystics through the centuries, as well as the ideas as found in writings such as those by William Blake and William Butler Yeats.  The most prolific modern scholars who have, and still are, addressing this ancient tradition (across the full spectrum) are: Gershom Scholem, Joseph Dan, and Moshe Idel. There is also a new generation of scholars developing that are keeping the torch lit in the long search within this rich and very esoteric tradition.

My concentration has been on the earliest periods of the tradition (Merkabah Mysticism) so I could certainly use some help as this tradition grew and changed throughout the centuries!!!

So, this will get us started, and I will jump in soon!

Peace,
Beth
 


[/quote]

[Beth]

Even though we have our own brand of Kabbalah today, Kabbalah means simply "received tradition."  

Kabbalah has a very rich history that goes back as far as the first century with Merkabah Mysticism and extends through the Middle Ages with the development of The Tree of Life and then further forward with the science of Alchemy and the creation of the Golden Dawn.

The texts for this very broad spectrum can be found in my bibliography thread, but in brief, the ancient texts include:

The Heikhalot Literature
Sefer ha-Bahir
Sefer Yezirah
Zohar

There are, however, a great many books that help us better understand these ancient texts, books that have been written from the Medieval Period to today.  These books include many writings of Jewish Mystics through the centuries, as well as the ideas as found in writings such as those by William Blake and William Butler Yeats.  The most prolific modern scholars who have, and still are, addressing this ancient tradition (across the full spectrum) are: Gershom Scholem, Joseph Dan, and Moshe Idel. There is also a new generation of scholars developing that are keeping the torch lit in the long search within this rich and very esoteric tradition.

My concentration has been on the earliest periods of the tradition (Merkabah Mysticism) so I could certainly use some help as this tradition grew and changed throughout the centuries!!!

So, this will get us started, and I will jump in soon!

Peace,
Beth
 

[David Clapper]

Shalom Beth,

Have you tried out the Merkavah techniques with astral projection? I know the techniques are scantily described in the Heichalot literature (especially the bit about descending into the Chariot), the journeys themselves are pretty graphic. I have yet to achieve a "real" astral projection, and would like to use the images described. So if you have had any relevant experiences I'd love to hear about them. I am very also very interested in how acculturation affects the OOBE one has.

[Nick]

Hi David, (and others)

Just a note regarding Beth. She has taken some time off to write a book, and we're hoping she'll return before too long.


Very best,
Nick

[Beth]

Hi David....and Nick!!!  

I just popped in to see what was going on and as it so happens, I just responded to David's question in the Merkabah Mysticism thread.  If I don't log on again soon, and someone has a burning question....no pun intended....Nick, you know how to contact me!  

Selah,
Beth