More Contradictions in Religion...

[Ryuji]

ubiquitous

To try to establish that there is a entity who is responsible for our existence and all that surrounds us is so far just a comfort notion

brings me to one Q I've been having a while (off topic warning )

if we were created and for what reason to worship - does deities/gods need that. For me i believe they can have respect and acknowledgment if you deem it so, part of you current way of life you have respect to some form of deity/god.

where how and why did the whole reincarnate thing start - God made souls and they go about experience life for God because God cant experience it for Himself - thus we go through few lives and then become one again with the super conscious/god etc etc.

I take a shot in dark that once we all were very able to do everything regarded now as magic, psychic and so on naturally but then became veiled and have to 'wake up' to see the big picture again not be enslaved into a way of life according to a book or peoples opinions

End of the world == end of era of the veil (as described in the christian bible)

Religion is just one of many interpretations of God according to someones understanding and should be treated as such, Luckily people around the world are starting to see through the muddy waters...

Blessings,
Ruy

[El-Bortukali]

Why can't he experience it for himself?
So,I'm the one who has all the hard work while god sits on his arse gaining experience trough me?

Slaverism i tell you!ol

[ubiquitous]

yeah, the ancient old slave drivers probably slouched in it's R&D lab tweaking around with DNA data making a new refined model to perv over!.

[Mustardseed]

Contradictions in religions..............hmmmm lets see. Do I have anything to say about that.Yea I guess I do. I find it quite amusing that a religion is seen as "faulty" and subsequently dismissed as false because it contains contradictions. I find many contradictions in life but not all of them means that life is false.

People are enigmas as well yet not false but often ignorant of the wider implications of different issues. Like a famous ogre said "ogres are like onions" maybe its all about layers. Maybe instead of trying to dismiss religion and religious people with sarcasm and put downs or equally patronizing, intellectual correct and well formulated arguments, (see we all do it )   we should try to just reason together. Just talk together and see what happens.

Arguments and force full dismissals of fellow travelers views seem to be futile. Now THAT is a contradiction. People who want to enlighten others think they can do it by "darkening" their path with unkind cuts and remarks. All an argument proves is that there are 2 people present. Often it would be help full to define that the debate is about as well. Does a contradiction in a religious book prove anything about the nature of God. It seems equally absurd to prove or disprove God from the pages of a book.

Maybe that is not what irks people.....maybe some just gets upset that people are ignorant and stupid or CHRISTIAN ( admit it it really P***** you of dosn't.t it). Well live with it, and deal with it. Africans that beat drums to dispel the power of spirits are held in scorn by Americans who blow their horns to break up traffic jams. Ha or Christians that are warned of the falseness of their religion by republicans (or Democrats) who have full faith in the just cause of some crazy war somewhere, or maybe by smart intellectuals who have a hard time sleeping at night for fear of death!!!!!

Contradictions come in many forms and runs deep in humanity, so does self righteousness a judgemental attitude.

Come on all together now......all you need is LOVE da da da da da all you need is LOVE.......

Love to you all Mustardseed

[Beth]

Africans that beat drums to dispel the power of spirits are held in scorn by Americans who blow their horns to break up traffic jams.

 :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

I swear Mustardseed, that was SO FUNNY it brought tears of laughter to my eyes!!  

Thanks love!:flowers: I really needed a good heart-chuckle tonight!!  

This whole Religion Biz can be so serious sometimes...

Yours truly,
~Beth

p.s. Sadly enough though, the comment you made above is only too true...and people are too blind to see that there is no difference...

[Ryuji]

sigh... no input for my Q's then hehe

i have to agree with Must.

It seems equally absurd to prove or disprove God from the pages of a book

but it is sad if a person soly depends on a book or another's opinion to live his or her life, maybe that person not ready yet and can only life this life this way but its you are allowed to take the good values from religious books and live by them becoming a better you and not some religious figure copy, I'm sure we not here to be robots making robots or be a copy of something or someone !

it is certainly better to go into a religion by choice than to be force into it.
be there contradictions or not - hec that's some old stuff ill be surprised if there is not errors in them, but one should not get lost in this whole contradictions things. It is however still a interesting part of religious study for me.

Africans that beat drums

Hey that's fun, great to beat your troubled mind away on a jembe drum with some 'african beat'

Just talk together and see what happens

unfortunately not always possible especially the-only-god-religions you'll definitely get smitten for just being different especially if your way of live resembles there 'evil' in there religion.

sigh. a true freedom of religion would be nice tho

Blessings,
Ryu

[kai wren]

Contradictions in religion, an interesting subject to be sure. But... do I have anything useful to add, hmm... I suppose I do.



    "Nothing is true; everything is permitted."

    - Hassan I Sabbah


I'll explain more on request.

[zyzyx]

Or, just to add a dash of confusion: "Everything is true.  Even false things." - Mal-2  

-Z

[gdo]

Hello Beth.

One with out definition.  Not one who or one gender or one any one thing but ONE as in more that anyone human can imagine.  You might also use the term NOTHING as in NO-THING or not any definable something, at least the way most people think.  

Some one once discussed the idea that god was outside the universe and just observing what happened.   I asked 'how can this be?'  How can a creator be outside of its creation.  

How many people have lived on this earth?  God encompasses all of them and all who will live on this earth and more.  

From reading your posts, I can see that you are an educated and a thoughtful person.   Congratulations.  

God is not a 'something' that any one person can put a name on.  The concept of the 'holy unspeakable name of God' has a purpose.  To name something is to assume knowledge of it.  How can one person know ALL THAT IS OR EVER WILL BE and presume to make that a personage and give it a gender?  People try to humanize god to make the idea approachable.  

When you were a baby you ate baby food.  When you were older you ate other food and started to read and write.  But you no longer eat baby food and talk like a toddler.  You learned and built on that.  We also have to learn not to rely on the 'primer' lessons on god that come from religions that started when much of humanity was illiterate.

Milk for babies, meat for strong adults.  And so it goes with all things including our ideas about god.

Not to imply that you have a toddlers concept about god but a general statement about religions and how we look at things.

[Beth]

One with out definition...

Do you not see how "One with out definition" IS a definition?

You might also use the term NOTHING...

Do you see where this clearly means "non-existence," and therefore doesn't work at all, except for atheists?

as in NO-THING or not any definable something, at least the way most people think...

And even with your qualification, "no thing" tells us "nothing." It is a grasp to put into language "something" that is actually beyond our full comprehension.

Some one once discussed the idea that god was outside the universe and just observing what happened. I asked 'how can this be?' How can a creator be outside of its creation.

You were right to question this idea, but not for the reason that you did.

It would be quite easy -- and expected even -- for a creator to be "outside of its creation."  In fact, the idea that God is "inside of its creation" doesn't work at all, because as the creator and maintainer of everything, being inside of anything means that God has "outside boundaries" and therefore has "limitations."  

God cannot be "omni/all" and have limitations.

The reason that this idea must be questioned, is that for "anything to be outside of the universe" -- which is by definition "everything that exists" -- is quite impossible; especially its creator (for the reasons just explained, and to argue otherwise is to become dizzy from running around in linguistic circles.)

The idea that "the name of God is so Holy that it is ineffable" is not because God is Holy, but because "to name God" is impossible. This is what makes God "Holy."  This cryptic way of referring to God is not a mystical thing at all really, it just simply means that there are no words to adequately accomplish the task.

Now, all of these things are not errors in our thinking so much as illustrations of the limits of our language. To ponder God is an excellent thing to do, but for God to be what we all instinctively believe God to be, no limits can be placed upon the concept. Language by nature defines. Definitions are limitations, e.g., not that, but this.

Humans have pondered God for millennia, and "Omni/All" may be the best that we can ever do, and even then, to fully expound upon such a theology we inevitably run into serious problems somewhere along the way.  

As long as we are dependent upon language to conceive of "God," we are just shadowboxing within the limits of our language -- which will, unfortunately, always be the case when it comes to "God."

As Wiggenstein said, "What we cannot speak of we must pass over in silence." This is not a mystical motto concerning God; this is a self-explanatory statement regarding language itself.

While we cannot ever adequately "talk about God," the important thing is to never stop "pondering God"!!! And the most successful at this will do so in silence.

~Beth

[kai wren]

Or, just to add a dash of confusion: "Everything is true. Even false things." - Mal-2

That was one of the quotes that confused me more, but confusion when discussing God can only bring us closer to her, right?  

[zyzyx]

Quite true.  Before knowledge there is always confusion, I suppose.

-Z

[Mustardseed]

Hi Beth
thanks for the emoticons . Very interesting post I will have to read it again as it is quite the argument. I loved the last quote and agree

Regards Mustardseed

[gdo]

Hello again Beth.

The ALL THAT IS, AND HAS EVER BEEN, AND WILL EVER BE, exists within itself, not outside itself.  

That is not limiting it at all.  It is UN-limiting it/god/'the all'.  

Anything that is created is created within.  The rest is production and re-production.  

I used the words 'nothing' and 'no-thing' not to mean the absence of anything but to mean, nothing as being one definable thing.

The one god is undefinable  and unlimited and is self manifest and also ever changing and infinite.  There is no concept of anything outside of it.

Anyone can take a part of the whole and make a language to describe how it seems to work.  Some of this is belief  and some is science and some is art.  The whole is still the whole and undefinable and essentially UN-nameable.  The effect of this kind of a thought can leave somewhat of an insecure feeling in some people and they are more comfortable in naming something and be done with it as it does not require constant effort after the 'naming' is done.

[Beth]

I cannot be sure gdo, but we may be talking past each other. Sometimes I think we are on the same page, and sometimes definately not.

Maybe some other forum members can chime in and see if they can see better what is going on within our discussion.

Anyone willing to take a stab at it?

~Beth