Understanding Christianity!

[Mustardseed]

You know whats funny? How theres no such thing as a sharia law in any Muslim country, if there truly was an Islamic government system then we would have a caliphate and I'm sure you realize that its non existent!! Your so called "American Democracy" is ruling our nations but yet! Do you see any results in that? Do you see any change on the democracy in my nations? ! Your looking at 2 countries WHICH YOUR NATION F-ED UP and portraying it as the Muslim world. Look at America! A Christian nation! But yet rape, oppression,murder IS EVEN WORSE THEN ANY MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRY!! How about you compare the rape rate? The Murder rate? Why don't you disprove my claims? Why don't you prove me wrong? Refute my rebuttals?

Rape  rate in my country is very big that is true here is why

According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved two out of three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population than any other country in northern Europe. The numbers there are likely to be at least as bad as with its Scandinavian neighbors. The actual number is thus probably even higher than what the authorities are reporting now, as it doesn't include second generation immigrants. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in Svea high court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents.

Full article here:

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003180.html

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm

As for murder, ................are you kiddin'

[Jeehad]

hahaha are you kidding me? Why don't you compare these numbers to Islamic countries where the population of Muslims is triple the rate in the Us Denmark Scandinavia and wherever you may think of! According to your logic muslims become angry rapers when they enter into a new country? Orr maybe! According to your logic all those priests and pastors who eventually lead to touching little children are Muslim arn't they?

[gzaod]

So generally, what I think the message is here is that the alteration of Jesus' teachings caused an incorrect interpretation of religion which continues to this day, and is mostly the cause or justification for the US gettin on its high horse and eventually trying to take over the world. Gotta start somewhere and that somewhere is oil hmmmm. Secondly, the message is also that there are certain interpretations of the Quran which also, blatantly leads to a systematic identification of the 'other' as hostile, Jihad neccessary for 'believers', and Crusades neccessary for 'Believers'.

Ultimately, I love the books but hate the organisation.

I think thats what we need to understand. It's not the books that are in any way wrong, its mankind imposing itself on it to use it for its own ends. Ego all the way.

I think without the insitutions, if everybody had their books, and prayed in the way they wanted to, without being told that they have to do this or do that in the name of their religion or God, (which is rediculous anyway because every scripture is about the one God (and his/her many forms) we would have a lot less trouble in the world. And a lot less agro in this forum. 

In my mind, Jeehad, Jesus was right, God almighty in the flesh. Just as many of us are, and have the potential to show it. Just gotta work on those chakras.

[DebInUSA]

So many Muslims going on and on about these things when they do not even begin to understand the Bible or Christianity. Why are Muslims so insecure about their religion?  I'm not going to get into a my religion is better than yours argument with you. I will only say that the Bible is sometimes just talking about historical things that have happened, sometimes it teaches in parables/metaphors, and God periodically changes the names of people and places throughout the Bible. The Bible was given to us over many more years than the Quran. God taught people in each period of time what they needed to be taught at the time - different times, different circumstances.  There are still things in the Bible that we do not understand because God isn't ready for us to understand them and He has sealed them up until He is ready for us to understand them. This only makes sense since the Bible is filled with prophecies and the Quran is not.
I am not sure what the name "Christianity" has to do with anything.  Jesus also tells us that we will worship in His name. I'm not going to look up to see where the name "Christianity" came from, but it's probably just as everything else Muslims have ever told me and I have researched and found there not to be any truth whatsoever to what they say. Pagans actually did have a moon God named Allah, by the way.  Does the Quran have the names Islam/Muslims in it?  I don't know.  I do know that people used to call Muslims "Muhammadans".  But I hardly think an earthly name means anything at all.
You say there are so many errors in the Bible, yet the last time I read anything about this from scholars, they said the Bible was like 98.9% error free.  And most Christians use the exact same Bible. There are some words that may be different, yet mean the same things. The Bible is not like the Quran and Christians do not think of it as Muslims think of the Quran. And by the way, Christians never worshipped Mary. This is one out of many errors in the Quran.  The Quran also has different words in it, according to who interpreted it. The difference in the Quran and the Bible is that Christians have tens of thousands of manuscripts we can always go back to and check to see if what we have is correct or not.  Muslims have zero manuscripts.  The Quran used to have all kinds of different copies...and I mean totally different Qurans, not just different interpretations of words, until some leader picked out one and decided to burn the others.  Also, the Quran verses are not even in chronological order.  It is written with the longest or shortest verses first...can't recall which one.  How and why would God write His holy book with the longest or shortest verses first and how in the world could anyone ever interpret it correctly?
As I said, I really do not want to get into this AGAIN.  I have read all of the accusations Muslims make against the Bible/Christianity and all of the accusations Christians make against the Quran, etc., read all of the supposed conflicts and explanations for both. It's just a never-ending ridiculous argument that almost all Christians will not participate in.  In fact, soon after 9/11/01, when I went to the Muslim message boards/websites to find out what Islam was all about and I encountered these accusations, I did a google search and could only find like one or two Christian sites saying anything at all about Islam/Muslims. Of course, soon after, they began popping up everywhere, but I know for sure who started all of this craziness. 
If you really want to understand the Bible/Christianity, which I doubt you do, I would suggest you do a google search for ex-Muslims who are now Christian preachers. I have never known anyone to preach the gospels better than ex-Muslims. I can certainly see why God is calling so many of them now to Christianity. Thousands of ex-Muslims, now Christians, are claiming to have had visions/dreams of Jesus. In fact, so many have been claiming this in the last few years, they have done studies on this at some university in California. To me, this is a miracle. They were doing a radio show about it in Africa and suddenly the phones began lighting up like crazy with ex-Muslims telling their story of having these visions/dreams.  Why do you think Africa is quickly turning into a Christian country all of a sudden?  For many years Christian missionaries have been going to Africa with little to no success.  Now, suddenly, literally thousands are converting to Christianity every day because they are having these dreams/visions of Jesus.
When I first saw all of these accusations Muslims were making, I went and researched them myself, instead of just believing a website.  I would suggest you do the same.

[Paola]

Christ was not a christian, Buddha was not a buddhist, mohummad was not a muslim and krishna was not a hindu!

Anyhow, what has the astral pulse got to do with religion,
Jeehad, you need fundamental christians to have these mindless debates, and they dont come here, for they think out of body experiences are evil and satanic.

[MindFreak]

I have a comment. I apologize that I have not read everything in this post because, well, there's too much and I dont have the patience at this time but I just wanted to say, and I mean no offence, but for one, Mustardseed, saying that "Islam rules the mideast and the result is chaos" is a very ignorant statement. Islam IS a peaceful religion but many of the follwers F*ck it up and distort it, much like many, MANY christian follwers are not peaceful, kind people at all. And saying that most rapists are immigrants is also very ignorant. There are bad people in every country, in every religion, without exception. And there are many examples of GOD in the bible encouraging his followers to commit violence and there are verses that could support the opression of women.
And jeehad, I agree with you on certain things about christianity but you strike me as kind of an angry person. Im sure anyone can find flaws in any religion, including Islam.
Debate can be good, but this kind of seems more like bickering than debating. There are many similarities between both of your religions, whether you acknowledge them or not.

Again I apologize, I dont mean to offend and I havent read even half of this thread I just wanted to comment on the very few parts that I did read.

[James S]

I think you've put your finger on the whole crux of this issue Mindfreak.

Two different religions arguing two different viewpoints, sometimes fanatically, but in the end they're really very much the same.

Paola,

Christ was not a christian, Buddha was not a buddhist, mohummad was not a muslim and krishna was not a hindu!

Isn't this so true!
These people didn't come to Earth to create separatism through religions. They were all trying to teach people NOT to go that way.

[Mez]

i think all religions miss the point. we arent seperate. we are one. everyone and everything. conciousness is a pyramid "god" being at the top and everything else is a thought form in the mind of "god" ("the source"/"the one"/"the all") hence we are not just of god but are god in the sence that we are all the same thing from the bottom of the pyramid upward to the top where sits a point of conciousness that can comprehend everything and anything. we down the bottom cannot. we simply choose to be here in the physical to learn the lessons our soul needs to learn.

[MindFreak]

Although, that is just another belief, or point of view, no different than the beliefs or point of views of religions. The only things that we can say are certainties have to do with immediate experience. Which is why I prefer not to speculate on god or beginings or things like that because they cannot be verified they require blind faith. Instead I prefer to study my own mind and consciousness and develop it through meditation. When the mind is highly developed you can learn things about reality that you cant with an undeveloped mind, and these can be verified because it comes from immediate experience. 

[abu-usaama]

Christ was not a christian, Buddha was not a buddhist, mohummad was not a muslim and krishna was not a hindu!

Actually Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was a Muslim.

 I (Muhammad SAW) have been commanded only to worship the Lord of this city (Makkah), Him Who has sanctified it and His is everything(in the universe). And I am commanded to be from among the Muslims (those who submit to Allah in Islam). [Surah An-Naml 27:91]

[Hannah b]

  oh boy...here we go again...I can'd decide whether to laugh or cry

[James S]

oh boy...here we go again...I can'd decide whether to laugh or cry

I so agree!
It's like basic logic and common sense become completely obsolete in the face of religious interpretation.

I think these interpretations are starting to become less convincing to more people for exactly the reason Mindfreak stated - more people are now turning towards the development of their own conscious awareness.

Mez,
I absolutely loved your post!
I couldn't agree more with what you said.

[DH]

Actually Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was a Muslim.
I (Muhammad SAW) have been commanded only to worship the Lord of this city (Makkah), Him Who has sanctified it and His is everything(in the universe). And I am commanded to be from among the Muslims (those who submit to Allah in Islam). [Surah An-Naml 27:91]

Is this a sudden reincarnation of Jeehad  or another Muslim brother with tunnel vision?   

I too appreciate the recent posts of Mez and Mindfreak.  They resonate with me because I feel the Inspiration of all religions is the Source that unites us all; and the Source is Unconditional Love that calls us beyond ourselves to help others discover the Source within themselves.  This does not compute with the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam (and other groups) for whom unconditional love makes no sense.

DH

[abu-usaama]

Im simply correcting ignorance, DH.

Thanks,

Abu-Usaama

[James S]

Oh the irony!