Selski's Journal

[Selski]

I'm moving fast down a road – at least I think it's a road. It has walls either side which look man-made, rather like modern white stone-walls with patterns in a natural look. The walls are slightly too high for me to look beyond. I'm not actually on/in a vehicle, but nor am I flying. I'm not really sure how I'm moving but that isn't my primary focus. My desire is to slow down or stop and 'get off' so I can take a more leisurely pace, look at the walls in more detail and see what's on the other side of them.

Then I think a bit and decide to stay with the movement. Eventually it slows down and I get off a bus in a small town. It's winter time, there are a few inches of snow on the ground but it's a beautiful sunny day. Everything is clear, crisp and colours are vibrant, shining. I feel extremely well, happy and ready for an adventure.

A few of us get off the bus (not many, perhaps 4 or 5) and we understand that it will pick us up at some later time to take us back. We have a couple of hours or more to have a look round. I suppose it's a day trip.

There is a little shop on the corner. I decide to go in. It sells clothes and cheap knick-knacks – I get the impression of a beach shop. There is a big baggy t-shirt hanging up by the door gently blowing in the breeze. Inside there's not much room, the shop can probably hold half a dozen people. There are some pretty-patterned bras in a dark purple colour. They look too large for me, but I contemplate buying one, making my boobs bigger (I do this regularly in dreams!) and flaunting about the place. Then I think a bit and turn away.

I then go to another shop and, feeling mischievous, make a loud stupid sound. Before I finish this sound, I stop myself and become quiet. I leave the shop and have a brief conversation with someone who was on the same ride as me. We discuss where the bus will be to collect us and figure it will turn up at the same spot it dropped us off. I decide to wait for it.

The scene fades.

When I awake, I see a design behind my closed eyes. It's like the patterns you see in a kaleidoscope, but much softer. The background is a dirty green and the geometric swirls are off-white/dull cream. It's like a 'natural' kaleidoscope. I'm fully awake now, aware of my body against the bed and knowing exactly who I am/where I am, but am able to watch this scene for a good 7 seconds (I'm counting) before it fades.

~~~ooo000ooo~~~

I think this was a successful test. The two times where I 'think for a bit' and when I become quiet were the three areas where I believe I did well. My reward? The kaleidoscope. I certainly feel more buoyant this morning and less despondent about my nightly adventures.

Those three decisions were made by my NP self; they had nothing to do with being lucid (which I wasn't) nor my conscious self. But, on some level, I remembered what I wanted to do (remain quiet, go with the experience and not be distracted). I managed all three – just about. 

[Selski]

EV – in response to your post the other day. 

I fully agree with your first paragraph – this has been my experience over the years to a T. In fact, looking at my NP progression from 15-odd years ago when I began having classic OBEs, the 'scope' (for want of a better word) has got smaller and smaller, until I'm left with mostly ordinary dreams with the occasional lucid one or part-separation of the physical.

The bulk of my 'most interesting' experiences (to me, at least) are between 3-7 years ago and these comprise, for the most part, lucid dreams. Once I began having 'big adventures' via lucid dreaming, I was no longer bothered about OBEs and all the 'faff' that goes with it. Even phasing phased out (lol) when I began to simply 'wake up' in a dream, seemingly without needing a trigger.

Something did happen during this time which was very curious to me. I found it hard to put into words, but my lucidity changed. It wasn't less and it wasn't dull – but it was more subtle. I remember trying to put into words what I meant in a post over at EIC and got a fantastic response from CF Traveler who explained it so much more succinctly than I ever could. I can't remember what she said now, but it was spot on. She'd obviously been through a similar process.

I still became lucid...but I also didn't. I gently knew I could do things in the environment that I knew I couldn't do in other environments (without fully realising that this was a dream vs waking life). Having read a number of posts over the past month here at the Pulse regarding the NP personality, I now suspect that was the beginning of mine taking shape.

The fact that you are not becoming lucid from your Dream Triggers/Signals is not because you are missing them, it is because your NP Personality has become developed enough to handle the situation by itself, without resorting to activating the conscious mind!

Yes, and I think my most recent experience bears this out rather nicely.

So, maybe we don't get the same opportunities to become lucid that we once did; but this is not a reason for disappointment. This actually is a sign of how our NP Personality has developed to a point where it can better handle itself; the DT's we remember upon waking are still there, but now are signposts of a new territory we are moving into.

That's a great way of looking at it. I'm rather fond of becoming lucid though and will miss it. Perhaps the Dream Operators will look kindly on me and throw one my way every so often!

What's going to be difficult going forward is building on the NP personality, especially as I'm not lucid. It happened last night, but it felt more pot luck than anything – any hints or tips on that one?

Thanks EV – your input is greatly appreciated.

[Selski]

I remember trying to put into words what I meant in a post over at EIC and got a fantastic response from CF Traveler who explained it so much more succinctly than I ever could. I can't remember what she said now, but it was spot on. She'd obviously been through a similar process.

Found it! Aren't search functions fab? 

http://www.explorations-in-consciousness.com/forums/index.php?threads/dreams-with-dreams-within-dreams.2730/#post-17154

Seems I was having a very similar conversation 3 years ago. 

[Stillwater]

With regards to second-person perspective dreaming, can anyone clarify what this is?

I have never heard of an instance of this... but, in terms of perspectives and camera work in film and other media,

1st person is, you are the character, seeing things from the character's perspective

3rd person is, you are a floating camera, watching things from a perspective no one has

2ng person is, you are yourself, but you are watching yourself from the perspective of another person. This is very rare.

In film, a second person camera would never happen most of the time, because the viewer doesn't already identify themselves as being one of the characters. Most of the examples are from video games. An example is Battletoads, where you are a frog character that you normally watch from 3rd person perspective, but at some point, you watch your character from the perspective of an enemy boss, as you flee that boss.

So that is cameras, then there is identity in perspective.

1st person identity is, you watch the events from the perspective of someone

3rd person identity is, you watch the events from the perspective outside what a person has

2nd person identity is, you watch the events from the perspective of someone, and you ARE that someone. Pretty much this can only reasonably be used in books, and even then, super rare. The only real exception I can think of is Virtual reality, where you are often playing as yourself.

[Selski]

Thanks Stillwater - I think I've got it. I'm not the brightest button on the shirt! 

It's strange how forgetful I can be. Yesterday afternoon I was looking through a colouring book saw a picture of silver birch trees. BOOM! This brought back some of the winter dream I had. Rather than 'get off a bus', the movement did eventually slow down and I was able to stop myself by grabbing a silver birch and hugging it. It was a lovely sensation and quite memorable - even though I forgot it. In fact, I even remembered it when I awoke from the dream and when I awoke from the night...but by the time I came to write it down, it had gone.

Memory is a funny old thing - I often get muddled. Even between whether it's a dream memory or a waking life memory. I suppose that's a side-effect of being so dream-focused.

[Selski]

So far, I do not recall any dreams in black and white but I really haven't paid attention to my dreams until this past year.

I meant to mention this yesterday. I'd love to read what started your journey into dreams a year ago (if it's not too personal). If you have a specific thread, let me know. I'm nosey curious. 

[Selski]

I'm at a sporting event with two friends, one of whom is taking part in the event. I realise I'm only wearing a t-shirt and knickers – although no-one else seems to notice this. I ask my friend to show me the way to the shops so I can buy something appropriate to wear. She takes me down the road and points in the distance, but then must return as she is appearing in the event shortly.

I go into a clothes shop and quickly choose a pair of trousers - pretty much the nearest to hand. They are £81 which is quite pricey, but I don't really care, I just need something to wear so that I can get back to my friends. The reason they are expensive is that they are waterproof. I put them on – they fit lovely – and go to pay.

On the way back I forget which direction we came in. I have a choice of going left or right. I choose right and, as the environment opens out, I realise I've gone the wrong way. However, my dream self is happy and not stressed or concerned, and I go on my merry way to explore the new landscape.

I come across a large field with a few trees in it. There is a stunning old tree ahead of me – and I look at the leaves to see what it is – it's an oak. It looks very old with a sturdy trunk and lots of low thick branches twisted out. It's beautiful and as I look at it, I say to myself, 'You are real. You cannot be unreal. This is real.' I go over and gently touch the bark which is dry and very rough – it feels just like it would in waking life.

A while later I come out of my reverie and decide I'd better go back to the left/right road and take a left. This I do and I soon see in the distance lots of vehicles parked so I know I'm heading for the sports stadium. As I reach the front gates, there are my two friends waiting for me. They've been worried as I've been a while and I'm prone to getting lost, so they figured the best place to wait for me was at the entrance.

~~~ooo000ooo~~~

Another clothes shop dream. Are the items I'm choosing disguises? No, that doesn't feel right. Maybe they represent beliefs and I'm currently shopping around until I find something that totally suits me. Hmmmm. Waterproof beliefs - ha ha ha. 

My sense of direction is appalling in waking life - it's very likely that I would go the wrong way on the return journey - my brain just cannot compute reverse directions. 

[Selski]

A group of us are making lemon flapjacks. There are a number of recipes to choose from. Me & a friend realise we haven't got all the ingredients we need for our recipe and consider going to the shop. But then we haven't got enough time, so we decide to use pasta instead. She asks what pasta I've got and says that lasagne pasta sheets would be the best. I look in my cupboard and find a box with 2 and a half sheets inside, which is nowhere near enough.

I tell her I'm going to use spaghetti and she asks what other pasta I have. I think I've got penne, but bring her the jar which is actually full of macaroni. She decides to use that, even though it will mean her flapjacks are rather 'slushy'.

We've made the first batch pre-oven and I take a mouthful. It's lemony-taste is just right with the texture somewhere between froth and mousse.

~~~ooo000ooo~~~

A silly one. Added because of the use of taste in a dream. Not that unusual for me, but worth noting.

[catmeow]

2nd person identity is, you watch the events from the perspective of someone, and you ARE that someone. Pretty much this can only reasonably be used in books, and even then, super rare. The only real exception I can think of is Virtual reality, where you are often playing as yourself.

Stillwater,

So, just to clarify, in this case, you not only shift your viewpoint (camera perspective) to that of another person (the "second person"), you also assume his identity?

Is that what you're saying?

[Stillwater]

Yeah that is correct. When you write in the second person, you use the pronoun "you". A person writing in the second person is literally telling you something about yourself.

If you want to talk about second person experiences, it is something like the reality we are experiencing now. Not only do we see things from the perspective of our body (which would be sufficient for a 1st person pesrpective), but we also consider ourselves to be that body.

It gets a bit confusing.

[T-Man]

I meant to mention this yesterday. I'd love to read what started your journey into dreams a year ago (if it's not too personal). If you have a specific thread, let me know. I'm nosey curious. 

Selski,

I've had a couple OBE experiences that first started in the early 90's.  I listen to Audio books that I buy from (Audible.com).  I came across Robert Monroe's first book last year and thought I would give it a listen.  I was hooked because it helped explain the experiences I had and I have not looked back.  I buy every audio book I can get my digital fingers on and books that aren't available on Audible.com, I buy paperback.  I have quite the collection now.  I than started my Dream Journal last year as well since that is what everyone recommends so you can get used to remembering your experiences. 

You can read my intro which is still available on the first page of the Members Introductions.  I have a paragraph there about how I started.
Nothing too exiting! 

[Selski]

It gets a bit confusing.

You're telling me! 

[Selski]

You can read my intro which is still available on the first page of the Members Introductions.  I have a paragraph there about how I started.

Thanks T-Man. 

[Selski]

I'm in a hospital ward with two others, one of whom was in the same car crash as me. The third person was also in a car crash, but her injuries are more severe than ours. We spend time talking, reading, doing crosswords. I receive some mail. There is a cheque for over £600 addressed to me. I ring the company who sent the cheque and they tell me they've been trying to contact me via e-mail. I explain my predicament and situation, and that I haven't got access to my e-mail account.

My friend and I are both reading the same book. It's by Stephen King. We discuss it and find we're up to pretty much the same page. I ask if the other lady is reading anything and my friend replies, 'the glass woman isn't well enough to read'.

I have a discussion with the glass woman who shows me two large blisters, one on the inside of her index finger and one on the inside of her middle finger. These keep rubbing together and it's these blisters, more than anything else, that are hurting her the most. She tells me that she's married and her husband is very busy and currently away on business. I explain that mine is also.

A week has passed by and another day of reading/talking. I ask glass woman if she's had a visit from her husband yet - no. I ask if she's had a phone call from him - no. I then say to myself out loud, 'I haven't had a visit or a phone call from mine either ... [then a bit louder] that's really weird, not even a phone call'.

Then it dawns on me.

I already know the answer, but ask in all seriousness to my friends, 'Are we dead?'

~~~ooo000ooo~~~

I'm currently reading Illusions II by Richard Bach. This is an account of his plane accident where he spends a week in a coma and quite some time in hospital. (It sounds morbid, but is a really lovely book!)

I'm a tad disappointed it took me a whole week to work out I was dead - I hope it's not that long when I finally do kick the bucket. I suppose on the other hand, it's not too long at all. I wasn't at all bothered about being dead...and I was careful with my words so as not to upset/shock the others.

It was a slightly muddled dream as my 'friend' wasn't consistently one person - at first they were my ex, then later a friend from work.

Another thing to note. In a much later dream, not related to this one, I am telling my boss about this dream and the fact that I'd worked out what had happened - that we had all died.

[Selski]

It took me all day yesterday before I realised that the above dream was more than likely a retrieval. When I went to bed last night, I was thinking about my question, 'Are we dead?' and - WHAM! - retrieval jumped into my mind.

My initial friend who changed forms was perhaps an NP Helper (my filters kept seeing people I knew) with Glass Woman being the dead person. The fact that the Helper and I were both 'on the same page' is a clue.

Maybe the Helpers needed a physical presence to help with the process as Glass Woman was refusing to even entertain the idea she was dead, and as a side effect couldn't see any Helpers.

A scenario was planned by the Dream Operators and they got me involved, hoping I'd bring up the subject in an appropriate & caring manner.

The scene was set, I played my part (without realising I had a part to play, lol) and I didn't botch it! As soon as I'd asked the question - Are we dead? - I awoke. I guess they didn't need me anymore after that. My question probably got Glass Woman thinking and that was enough to bring the Helpers into focus. Thank goodness I didn't get lucid otherwise I'd have been off prancing around looking for male doctors... 

I went to sleep wondering why she was so reluctant to entertain the idea of death. A short dream followed whereby I had to go down a dark passage to fetch something and was full of fear. No - I was terrified. I think that was my answer, as I am rarely, if ever, that scared in dreams.

[Selski]

A question for anyone reading.

I've been mulling over why she is called Glass Woman. I wondered if her surname is Glass. In our discussions in the hospital, she told me her husband's first name. On a whim, I googled his first name with a surname of Glass - and found a website of that exact name, with a photo, bio etc. It doesn't mention anything about him being married, but then again the focus is on his work.

Would you, having had my experience, contact him? If so, what the dickens would you say?

I think I've already got my answer, but wondered what you would do. I think it's all a bit tenuous to be bothering a complete stranger. At best I'd come across a complete loon, at worst it might be really upsetting for him.

[catmeow]

Yeah that is correct. When you write in the second person, you use the pronoun "you". A person writing in the second person is literally telling you something about yourself.

Thanks Stillwater

[T-Man]

It took me all day yesterday before I realised that the above dream was more than likely a retrieval. When I went to bed last night, I was thinking about my question, 'Are we dead?' and - WHAM! - retrieval jumped into my mind.

That was certainly an interesting dream.  It would have never occurred to me that could have been a retrieval but after you mention it the circumstances sure seem to fit that scenario.  I don't know much about retrievals but I have read many on the forum as well as on TMI.  I always assumed that the one helping out always had a high level of awareness or lucidity but I guess you still have degrees of awareness in non-lucid dreams.  I, myself had a dream a couple nights ago that was some sort of test/simulation and even though I was not lucid, my awareness level was higher than usual and I remembered a lot of detail in that dream. 

Great job on the conclusion of that dream/retrieval!

P.S.  You made me chuckle about the lucidity and chasing after the doctors! 

[EscapeVelocity]

Wow! Great retrieval interpretation Selski! You have just confirmed that it can occur on a purely instinctive NP level! Nicely done!

There is so much to un-wrap here, I wish I was better at pulling quotes...

I love the 'nudging process'!...I give a nudge, you give a nudge, then Stillwater, catmeow and then T-Man...before you know it, we have all instinctively moved forward somehow and maybe learned something...

'Dream nostalgia'...that was a good call! Think about the various PR emotions we are re-introduced to within our NPR experiences...fear, anger, sexual desire...those are the biggies...then we get introduced to more subtle energies like various forms of nostalgia, fondness, regret, disappointment, hope!...

Selski, your dream recall is amazing and I think the sheer number is indicative that you are learning and advancing on such subtle levels that you may have previously been unaware. My only advice can be to just encourage it and let it unfold as it naturally seems to be happening.

What you are learning and thereby teaching us is just how 'natural' and 'organic' learning is at this point. We don't and won't always understand the dream symbology...maybe the next day, maybe a week later...the key may be to just simply 'trust' that the learning is happening at a very 'instinctive, internal level'...just let it complete itself in it's own way.

"WHAM! -Retrieval jumped into my mind"...yeah, that's how the revelations hit you at this point...it is frustrating, then BAM, the realization hits...

The Glass woman...could be her name, but the first read I had was maybe that describes her 'fragility'...?

If you choose to contact him, you might defer by saying that you 'thought' you were an old school friend and could be mistaken...that may buy you a convenient exit.

Finally, I hope that you suspect to a certain degree that these experiences are showing wonderful progress in the development of your NP personality, a subject that I expect may be of increasing interest to you.

More to come, I'm sure...

[Selski]

A group of us are in a pub. We've gone to watch greyhound racing on the big screen. The dogs start off in a cave. As we watch the men getting everything ready as the dogs have already been put in the traps, there is a small explosion inside the cave. Everyone in the pub is shocked and worried and before we can say anything, there is a further explosion – this one much larger and it's obvious that everyone – trainers, track workers and the dogs themselves – are dead.

No idea where this came from. I used to go greyhound racing regularly but haven't been for years. My sadness in the dream was over the death of the dogs... I didn't particularly feel any concern for the people.

~~~ooo000ooo~~~

I'm with Bill. The last scene is beautiful. He looks younger and really well. We are in a park, I'm lying on the grass and he's dancing around me. In the distance is a mountain – its shape is that of sugar loaf mountain and everywhere around us are cherry blossom trees in full bloom against a sky blue background. Really pretty. The atmosphere is loving and sexy. We wonder where we are – we know it's not heaven but it's somewhere simply wonderful.

A real feel-good dream. I woke up happy and with lovely thoughts about Bill. I also had Under the Tree by Jim Noir in my mind.

[Selski]

It would have never occurred to me that could have been a retrieval but after you mention it the circumstances sure seem to fit that scenario.

It's a tricky one as I'm not really sure whether I've simply misinterpreted (or read too much into) an ordinary dream (with plenty of bleedthroughs from the book I was reading that day). Quite a bit of 'this stuff' is a leap of faith...and oftentimes I refuse to jump!

When I looked at it from a retrieval point of view, there were quite a few signs that stood out. One big one was when the dream ended. I now suspect that I was beginning to become lucid at that point and was probably booted out before I made a mess of it. The good thing is, if it was a retrieval, I wasn't thrown in at the deep end. If I had fluffed it, I'm sure they had a contingency plan in place. I could have simply been another patient who was in too much pain, or lost my mind, or something. I think it was a little test to see if I was ready in a non-physical AND non-lucid sense.

The other clue is how I felt upon the realisation that it was a retrieval. I'd just gone to bed tired and ready for a good sleep. After the realisation, I was wide awake, hyper and could have happily done a day's work! It was a struggle to actually stay in bed and try to sleep.

I'm still not sure...but I've been sitting on the fence for most of my life so for now I'm going with it.

Down the rabbit hole goes Selski... 

[T-Man]

The Glass woman...could be her name, but the first read I had was maybe that describes her 'fragility'...?

This was my exact thought as well when I read the thru the dream.

Selski,

Maybe Glass was her name but maybe you referred to her as the glass woman because you knew that she was in a fragile state.  Maybe you took the week to be with her and gradually bring to her attention that she may be dead.

BTW, which Stephen King novel were you reading? 

[Selski]

Wow! Great retrieval interpretation Selski! You have just confirmed that it can occur on a purely instinctive NP level! Nicely done!

Thank you EV. It hasn't quite got the wow factor of a lucid experience, but perhaps this is the way it will be for me from now on. I just hope that my NP personality continues to evolve in a way that is beneficial for all concerned.  

I think (hope) you are correct that I'm still learning in a more subtle way. I guess the best way to continue down this path is to keep on recording and deciphering my dreams - and, most importantly, to not get frustrated when I feel that 'nothing' is happening. Looking back, I suspect a lot of the dreams I've had since I rejoined the Pulse have been building up to this hospital retrieval experience. The night I realised it was a retrieval I was sending out NP gratitude to anyone who would listen!  

The Glass woman...could be her name, but the first read I had was maybe that describes her 'fragility'...?

Yeah, I also thought it might be her bodily state - full of glass from the car crash. I'm definitely not contacting anyone - as I was looking at the link on his website saying 'email me', it made me realise just how far removed all this stuff is to the 'real' world. Heck, I doubt I'll even relay the hospital experience to my other half - I know he'd listen kindly, but... well, you probably know what I mean. These experiences are difficult for us to accept - and we're the ones having them. I know if the boot was on the other foot, I'd have a hard time believing him too.

More to come, I'm sure...

Ha ha, yep indeedy!  

[Selski]

Maybe Glass was her name but maybe you referred to her as the glass woman because you knew that she was in a fragile state.

I reckon you're right. After all, names are of no concern 'over there' (as I keep being reminded by those lovely Dream Operators). 

BTW, which Stephen King novel were you reading?

Ha! I don't know. What I remember of the book is that it was slim and had a colourful cover - perhaps blues/purples. (In waking life, I've read quite a few of his books, but not for many years.)

[catmeow]

Then it dawns on me.

I already know the answer, but ask in all seriousness to my friends, 'Are we dead?'

Oh, beautifully delivered. That was a real "The Sixth Sense" moment! Ever thought of a career as an author?

Regarding Glass Woman, I'm with EscapeVelocity and T-Man on this, it seems like a reference to her fragility more than anything else.

I also liked "we're upto pretty much the same page" (ie "on the same page"). When I read that I did wonder what the significance was. As EscapeVelocity said, so much to un-wrap here.